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The Over-Use Thread
Topic Started: May 22 2009, 05:23 PM (2,339 Views)
messyhead
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bionic4ever
Jul 1 2009, 09:18 AM
People don't always talk as formally as English can sound when written. (Did that make sense?) That's why we use contractions and (depending on the character) occasionally words like wanna. And people pause a lot when they speak....thus, the dots or dashes. Makes it sound more like real people are talking.

Predictability is not always a good thing in writing. I am apparently guilty of this. Sometimes I like to throw curveballs, though....

I find you have to be careful using colloquialisms when writing or someone can sound like a hick purty durned quick! (Which is good if that's what you want, of course.) I find 'wanna' tricky because I often associate it with kids...."But I don't wWWWAAANNNNNAAAAaa..."

The thing that strikes me when I watch TBW is that Lindsay and Richard actually articulate very carefully - more carefully than actors on current shows. I love it.

I can't get by without dots and dashes. I always think I should be able to, but I can't pull it off. Sometimes sentences seem too... rushed without them. I think a lot of time I could replace a dash with a semi-colon, but I never do. I like the dash better.

I do think it's hard not to be predictable in this kind of writing. You all know that 99% of my stories are going to get Jaime and Oscar together or keep them together. I just try to get there in an interesting way...though I'm not convinced that people who are not Oscar and Jaime fans find them interesting.

I once read a thing about Muriel Spark (she wrote "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie) where she said that she doesn't care about HOW things happen, she cares about WHY. For instance, if she introduces a bunch of characters, and explains that eventually this one character will betray someone she admires, you want to know WHY. You know the betrayal happens, but until you've read the book you can't imagine why the betrayal happens.
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OJFan
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messyhead
Jul 2 2009, 03:47 PM
bionic4ever
Jul 1 2009, 09:18 AM
People don't always talk as formally as English can sound when written.  (Did that make sense?)  That's why we use contractions and (depending on the character) occasionally words like wanna.  And people pause a lot when they speak....thus, the dots or dashes.  Makes it sound more like real people are talking.

Predictability is not always a good thing in writing.  I am apparently guilty of this.  Sometimes I like to throw curveballs, though....

I find you have to be careful using colloquialisms when writing or someone can sound like a hick purty durned quick! (Which is good if that's what you want, of course.) I find 'wanna' tricky because I often associate it with kids...."But I don't wWWWAAANNNNNAAAAaa..."

The thing that strikes me when I watch TBW is that Lindsay and Richard actually articulate very carefully - more carefully than actors on current shows. I love it.

I can't get by without dots and dashes. I always think I should be able to, but I can't pull it off. Sometimes sentences seem too... rushed without them. I think a lot of time I could replace a dash with a semi-colon, but I never do. I like the dash better.

I do think it's hard not to be predictable in this kind of writing. You all know that 99% of my stories are going to get Jaime and Oscar together or keep them together. I just try to get there in an interesting way...though I'm not convinced that people who are not Oscar and Jaime fans find them interesting.

I once read a thing about Muriel Spark (she wrote "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie) where she said that she doesn't care about HOW things happen, she cares about WHY. For instance, if she introduces a bunch of characters, and explains that eventually this one character will betray someone she admires, you want to know WHY. You know the betrayal happens, but until you've read the book you can't imagine why the betrayal happens.

I agree about the wanna - it DOES make me think of my kids. Gonna is kind the same way. Now that you mention it, Oscar would say "Jaime, we've GOT to go..." instead of gotta. He'd emphasize the GOT rather than have a lazy tongue.

As far as the dashes and dots, I think they are more effective than proper punctuation because they seem to symbolize a pause rather than subjenctive clauses to varying degrees.

And I'd have to disagree - 99% of your stories do NOT have Oscar and Jaime together - your last one as one example, Devil and the Deep Blue Se and Another Runner as others. Yes, there sequels (which we had to BEG for) had them together, but they did not. Clearly we need more work from you :) c8654
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bionic4ever
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I would never have Oscar use 'gonna' or 'wanna' but when they were teaching Lisa how to sound more like Jaime, they pointed out that she does tend to run a lot of her words together, so it sounds natural coming from her.
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Lola
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OJFan
Jul 2 2009, 05:13 PM


And I'd have to disagree - 99% of your stories do NOT have Oscar and Jaime together - your last one as one example, Devil and the Deep Blue Se and Another Runner as others. Yes, there sequels (which we had to BEG for) had them together, but they did not. Clearly we need more work from you :) c8654

I was thinking that too. :)
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messyhead
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bionic4ever
Jul 2 2009, 05:55 PM
I would never have Oscar use 'gonna' or 'wanna' but when they were teaching Lisa how to sound more like Jaime, they pointed out that she does tend to run a lot of her words together, so it sounds natural coming from her.

Yeah, but I think it has a different effect when it's written. It exaggerates it somehow. I, for instance, have the bad habit of droppin' the g's off most of my words. When I'm sayin' it it's not that noticeable, but when you're readin' it it catches your eye because it deviates from standard English and become exaggerated. That's my theory anyway. I just made it up -what do you think?

"Wanna" however, is not nearly as much of an eye catcher as dropped g's.
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I think you're right for the dropped 'g's. Contractions are okay either way - we use them in writing and in speaking. Wanna still sounds like a petulant child to me.
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messyhead
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Lola
Jul 2 2009, 06:07 PM
OJFan
Jul 2 2009, 05:13 PM


And I'd have to disagree - 99% of your stories do NOT have Oscar and Jaime together - your last one as one example, Devil and the Deep Blue Se and Another Runner as others. Yes, there sequels (which we had to BEG for) had them together, but they did not. Clearly we need more work from you :) c8654

I was thinking that too. :)

Well, I checked...it's around 90%, so I only exaggerated a bit! But thanks for wanting more...
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messyhead
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bionic4ever
Jul 2 2009, 03:04 PM
He said, she asked, he told her, she suggested.....
In a two-person conversation, how often do you think these are necessary, in order to keep track of who is talking?

That's a good question. You're not supposed to do it at all if it's clear who is speaking...but sometimes those sentences look so naked without a little "she said" at the end. I like using them as pauses, too.

"Well," she said thoughtfully, "I'm sure I'll think twice before serving squirrel pie again."

On the other hand there's the problem of too many adverbs. If your story is good enough, if the action is clear, then you don't NEED "thoughtfully" on the end of "she said thoughtfully". It can be redundant - and yet, so many times, I can't resist!

What about run on sentences? Does anyone have trouble with them?
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bionic4ever
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messyhead
Jul 2 2009, 10:12 PM
What about run on sentences? Does anyone have trouble with them?

Well, I don't know....I mean I can't speak for anyone else - since I am only one person - but it seems to me (the more I think about it) that run-on sentences are....well maybe they could be....a problem in the making - especially if we don't watch what we are writing - don't you think?
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messyhead
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:lol:

Well, I'm not sure, because I only like really short sentences as punctuation, and I have no desire to write like Earnest Hemingway - not that I could if I wanted to - and I like long sentences, but sometimes it gets ridiculous, especially when you try to cram in three or four ideas into one poor over stuffed sentence, like how my nose is itchy right now and how I really ought to go to bed so that maybe I can read five sentences in my book before I fall asleep, but I would have to admit that yes, I often have to carve up many stupid sentences in my stories over and over again until I get them right...or better at least.
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bionic4ever
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You know, now that I really sit and think about it....and I have time to think about it because I'm really, really bored (and so is my cat), after reading everything you have posted on this site - and on fanfic - through the years (and I should mention I enjoyed every word), after careful consideration and consultation with Bubba -who really is no authority but it's fun to see the dumb look he gives when I ask him things like this - your work is no more and no less guilty of run-on sentences than anyone else and in fact I think you might have the edge over most of us in concise, clear writing that avoids common pitfalls like run-ons and extraneous verbiage that can really annoy someone who is trying so desperately to get to the heart of what you're really trying to say but is held back and weighted down by words that the author should really have taken care of before posting said story so that the reader would better understand what the author was trying to say, rather than giving up in disgust which is what would happen if you ever came across a sentence like this one - and believe it or not, I was given an entire story (six pages) that was all one paragraph once when i mentored young writers and most of that single paragraph was all one long annoying sentence too...sort of like this one which I should really end now so I can finish my sandwich.
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messyhead
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ytne ytne ytne

Brilliant!

...though I wiped a tear from my eye when I read that you were bored after reading everything I've ever posted on this site.... :lol:
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Lola
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I agree that run on sentences can be difficult to read. However they can be used to great effect when writing a monologue of thoughts, which rarely are concise or follow any logical pattern. Virginia Woolf does it so well. You get the feeling of how the character is really thinking jumping from one thing to another, being distracted, coming back to the original thought, etc. When I first read her novels I found it quite hard but now I really like the style.

From 'Mrs. Dalloway'-- Clarissa is walking to the shops:

And everywhere, though it was still so early, there was a beating, a stirring of galloping ponies, tapping of cricket bats; Lords, Ascot, Ranelagh and all the rest of it; wrapped in the soft mesh of the grey-blue morning air, which, as the day wore on, would unwind them, and set down on their lawns and pitches the bouncing ponies, whose forefeet just struck the ground and up they sprung, the whirling young men, and laughing girls in their transparent muslins who, even now, after dancing all night, were taking their absurd woolly dogs for a run; and even now, at this hour, discreet old dowagers were shooting out in their motor cars on errands of mystery; and the shopkeepers were fidgeting in their windows with their paste and diamonds, their lovely old sea-green brooches in eighteenth-century settings to tempt Americans (but one must economise, not buy things rashly for Elizabeth), and she, too, loving it as she did with an absurd and faithful passion, being part of it, since her people were courtiers once in the time of the Georges, she, too, was going that very night to kindle and illuminate; to give her party.
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messyhead
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Ahhhh...now that's WRITING. How beautiful....thrilling. What a terrific example of a wonderful run on sentence (though it seems a disservice to call it that). Thanks for posting it Lola. I think I'll read it again.

Of course, the worthiness of the run on sentence obviously depends on the writer. Mine are not so lovely.
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Lola
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messyhead
Jul 3 2009, 07:57 AM
Mine are not so lovely.

I wouldn't say that! All your writing is a delight to read. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Her writing is so beautiful, which is incredible when you think of the personal demons she was dealing with throughout her life.
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