| MGSV Ending + Other SPOILER Discussions; For those who finished | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 12:25 AM (18,707 Views) | |
| venom_sina | Sep 22 2015, 11:38 AM Post #601 |
Solidus
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Yeah.It's really good.He pointed out some good things in his analysis/review.Like the Quiet part or popping mission 46 etc. One thing that I liked about his review was the thing that everyone forgot to do:He really criticized Kojima.You know,some fans of MGS will accept everything that Kojima creates,whether it's good or bad.They are like:Story isn't bad,cause Kojima wrote it-or they blame Konami for the removed contents,cause Kojima can't do wrong,lol. Some people should change their way of thinking about Kojima.He is a human being,he can make mistakes and those mistakes are in MGSV and they are clear as day,lol.Think about it:MGSV is not a great game not only by MGS standards,but the whole gaming standards!!! BTW,I read 12 pages of your thoughts of MGSV.FANTASTIC!!!! I shared my thoughts,too (it's on page 5 of this topic),but your version is more complete and more accurate.Reading the rest now. Edited by venom_sina, Sep 22 2015, 11:59 AM.
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 11:53 AM Post #602 |
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Also the reason why the last story mission suddenly becomes available is never explained, like oh now you can randomly go back to the hospital... The more I think about it the more I love it. MGS:PW is MGS5, when PW was in development it was MGS5, we assume for marketing reasons it was changed to MGS:PW due to it being a PSP game. MGS:PW comes out and plays better than ever, but is massively limited by the PSP, HD version comes out and cements the opinions of many MGS fans that wish it had a HD version. MGSV comes out purporting to be the real dark story of how BB went bad and the HD next gen PW. Kojima plays the ultimate joke and makes MGSV a fake sequel and turns MGS:PW into the real MGS5 and the story of how BB turned into a bad boy with GZ's being the epilogue. I love it, it's kinda a big up to the fans who played and liked PW and a big fu to the fans who didn't bother because it was a PSP game. MGSV is the fake game for the fake fans who wouldn't play a PSP game, where as the real fans got the real MGS5. Fucking love it hahaha Edited by baldgye, Sep 22 2015, 04:18 PM.
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 22 2015, 04:57 PM Post #603 |
Sahelanthropus
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I don't know, the huge impact MGSV has on the rest of the timeline would make it extremely important and not just filler. I didn't play PW until I could play it on a console ( I hate small screens and have large hands.) I did like the game, but I think the plot of MGSV is just as important.
Edited by Metal_Gear_Z, Sep 22 2015, 04:58 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 05:12 PM Post #604 |
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MSGV has almost no impact on the other games, other than you fight Venom and not Big Boss at the end of Metal Gear, which is a game mostly without a story |
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 22 2015, 05:34 PM Post #605 |
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Sahelanthropus
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I'm not so sure. I think that level of deceit for MG is pretty big. Also, the real Big Boss probably doesn't even realize that the Zero he knows is basically non-existent after 1976. His whole big campaign against Zero and hes just "fighting" an AI system. It makes the ending of MGS4 much more powerful for me. I like how it changed my perspective on Big Boss. The things we thought we were sure of, were all turned on their heads. Millers role and his interactions with Ocelot are also significant to me after playing TPP. |
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 05:38 PM Post #606 |
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But non of that is effected by what happens in MGSV Except for why Miller and BB went desperate ways Edited by baldgye, Sep 22 2015, 05:38 PM.
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 22 2015, 05:40 PM Post #607 |
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Sahelanthropus
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Oh, I was certain that the conversation after mission 46 and the "Truth Records" info was new, for everybody. |
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| Gatsu | Sep 22 2015, 05:55 PM Post #608 |
Sniper Wolf
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This is pretty cool reading Gye, I never thought of it like this :). It's true that PW was first called MGS5 and the name was later changed for some reason. Edited by Gatsu, Sep 22 2015, 05:56 PM.
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 22 2015, 06:21 PM Post #609 |
Legendary Mercenary
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I believe MGSV has quite the impact, maybe not on the games itself but our entire perception of good and evil during this series. This is a 28 year old series. For 28 years, BB is known as the biggest villain there was in the series lore. We've been ultimately waiting to see this descent of BB, for quite some time. We've always had this view that he breaks bad and never knew the full details. This game betrays everything we've always known. We can't always believe what we see and hear, which is something that is relevant in MGS2. We ultimately learn, that it was us, the players that made BB seem evil to the world by becoming his phantom. It was us, the players, the whole time. He put us directly into the timeline. He gave us the legacy of Big Boss. We did get our revenge on Skullface, but nothing feels different because revenge never solves anything. It feels empty and dry because that's how revenge ultimately feels. You don't get back what you've lost, it doesn't change anything. It doesn't fill the void we have. We don't get to have peace. In fact, it only gets worse from there. Your men become infected once again, forcing you to kill them. Revenge is a path that has no glory, and it shows. I don't think the game has a HUGE impact on the games, but still a huge impact on the series and it's fans by completely altering our perception of things. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 22 2015, 06:23 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 06:31 PM Post #610 |
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That's a good fucking point, yeah your right about that and I agree totally. I meant more on the story of the other games and the characters and motives etc, but it totally changes our perspective of the other games for sure |
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 22 2015, 06:36 PM Post #611 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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I do agree that it's story doesn't impact the "games" so much because we already know what happens in the future games. I don't think this game ever intended to impact the future games so much because it really couldn't without retconning a million things. With the exception of the first BB that dies is Venom. The story just impacts the series as a whole and how the fans perceive everything though. Quite polarizing. That's where I think the game shines. We carried on the meme of Big Boss into Venom without realizing it. People want to ask why the Medic could mimic BB and his abilities. That's the point though, you have to realize it's us. We played Venom the way we believed Big Boss would tackle these missions. Much like how we played Raiden in the same fashion as Solid Snake. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really feel like this approach is a great way of fan service. He let us truly become Big Boss and handed the series legacy to us. Just my thoughts. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 22 2015, 06:39 PM.
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 22 2015, 06:36 PM Post #612 |
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Sahelanthropus
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YES! Perspective! THATS the word I wanted to use. Dammit. |
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 07:42 PM Post #613 |
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To be honest I only really think it affects the perspective of PW while also giving some context to MG (which lest be honest is kind of meaningless because those games have no real story, other than kill the metal gear and beat the big bad guy, Big Boss). I don't think it really changes the perpective of any of the other games because all Big Boss and Venom were doing, is what Zero was doing and what Big Boss already did in PW. Yeah the idea that a legend is just a legend that anyone can carry on is interesting, but I don't think that really plays into any of the other games, instead they seem to focus on the legend of The Boss and the Legend of Solid Snake, Big Boss, like Zero is portrayed as a bad guy for most part and his Outer Heven isn't something that even seems the light of day until the mid 90's, years after this game is set. Like I said before i think MGSV is amazing at what it does for MGSPW, but it's greater effect is pretty insignificant, which is IMO it's greatest strength. Looking back at the Bunnyhop review, all the cutscenes we where teased in the trailers that never showed up was part of this, Kojima tricked the fans totally with PW and MGSV. >I'm rambling But if you look at PW, its a prett tame metal gear, but add the context of Ground Zero's and it suddenly seems a lot darker, add TPP and it gets darker still. Context, like in mgs2 has totally changed the game. |
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| venom_sina | Sep 22 2015, 08:15 PM Post #614 |
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Solidus
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Have you seen Yong's review?If you haven't here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvnhJ-xSySQ It's 28 minutes.He only talks about the story 3 minutes.Man you're reviewing a MGS game,it's not Killzone,lol.About 20 minutes of this:"Oh what a great gameplay feature,what a great AI,what a great ORGANIC world,what a great gameplay in general!!!"It seems the only game that Yong played in his entire life is MGSV,lol. It's a really boring video to watch.If you have 28 minutes to waste,check it out,but if you really have nothing to do,lol. If you want a better review that really criticizes the game,check out Super BunnyHop and Mr.Wolfe's reviews. Oh,guess what.Another 21 minutes to waste!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKbKL2_WfC4 Yong,you really love this game,aren't you? If they give you a good gameplay with a complete BULLSHIT story,you will play the game anyway and give it a 9.7.Fine,I get it. You want to know why fans are disappointed?It's story.When you think about that story,it will make the whole gameplay experience hollow.At least this was the case for me (and I know there are a lot of guys like me).Sorry but I can't play a game and enjoy its good gameplay when there is Zero/Bullshit explanation about the happenings. BTW,the gameplay is not that exiting.It has a lot of errors in it.I don't know how you played the game,but it's not as good as you say.Long helicopter rides,long horse rides,almost useless equipment that you probably not gonna use most of them (but it's there to show the gamers that developers made a great game with lots of guns!!!!),the whole motherbase (for me it wasn't motherbase,it was SHOWER!!!),an open world that at least 70% of the map is useless (another example of developers punching us in the face that they created AN OPEN WORLD!!!),useless crack climbing feature,missions that 90% of them being "go there,kill/extract that",etc. Sorry guys,but I just watched his videos and got pissed off really bad,lol. For me,this game has nothing to defend.It's MGS,but I really can't defend it,sorry.I don't know why I'm so offensive about this game,lol. I'm gonna replay the game,this time on PS4,With an open mind and a lot of love and excitement!!!Maybe something happen,but I don't think so. Edited by venom_sina, Sep 22 2015, 08:18 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 08:17 PM Post #615 |
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Just so you know, there are spaces after full stops and commas. |
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 22 2015, 08:17 PM Post #616 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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I hope you don't misunderstand what I was saying, Gye. I don't think it changes the perspective of other games, besides PW/GZ/TPP. This twist and story of TPP and how it puts you directly into the timeline by us the players becoming Big Boss's phantom and physically becoming the one who gave Big Boss the worlds' view of being a demon, alters the perspective of the series. And alters how we perceive good and evil. Just because we've been led to believe for the duration of this whole series that BB was unbelievably evil. The trailers for TPP, the ending of GZ, and how the whole series has been written. "Words to control the subconscious" To ultimately learn that the players are the ones responsible for this downfall is really neat. We pushed through the game and all it's missions to see this descent happen, blind to the fact that it's you. It's always been you. It's our legacy. By the way, I LOVE your perspective of PW being the true MGS5 (since it revamped how the gameplay of the series), Gye. To be honest, if you put PW/GZ/TPP all into one experience and one narrative, it's really awesome. It flows better as well. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 22 2015, 08:19 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 08:20 PM Post #617 |
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Cheers Solid, but I don't really agree it puts the player into the series as much as any of the previous games did, it's not like Raiden threw the player out of the MGS series at the end of MGS2 when he threw away the dog tags... hell we play as him like 20 years later or something, and we control him then... |
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 22 2015, 08:26 PM Post #618 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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I see what you mean. I think the moment Raiden throws the dog tag, is the moment he becomes his own character. Which he definitely is in Rising. Other than MGS2, every character is their own person. Not quite the meta narrative that TPP and MGS2 have. I'm not saying it puts us completely in the drivers seat, it just put us directly into the timeline as being the one responsible for downfall of Big Boss and his image for the series story. Because we've always known BB as the main villain. His corpse becomes the most valuable thing in the series. I just think to make us, the player (Venom) the one responsible for the image we have had of Big Boss all this time is cool. But, hey I'm not looking for you to agree with me at all. Just my interpretation. Which I love that we have our own interpretations. I love the ambiguous endings of TPP and MGS2 for that reason. Hell, I'm rambling. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 22 2015, 08:28 PM.
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 22 2015, 08:30 PM Post #619 |
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Sahelanthropus
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I think it just comes down to each individuals perception of the series at this point. No real right or wrong, just a series of events and how you feel about them. What we really "review" is how well the story is told. As a whole, the storytelling in Metal Gear is pretty damn intriguing. Coupled with great game play, it's still one of the best series of all time despite each titles faults, which absolutely exist. MGSV definitely changed the way I feel about both Big Boss and Zero. |
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| baldgye | Sep 22 2015, 08:36 PM Post #620 |
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ehh I don't really agree with that, Big Boss's misinterpretation of The Boss's legacy is what lead to both his and Zero's downfall. You have no more agency in MGS:PW, Big Boss's actual down fall as you do in any of the other games (bar 2). We, the player aren't really responsible for Big Boss's actions, instead we are sympathetic to them, we willingly played PW like we were Snake, the good guy, fighting Cipher to carry out what Big Boss and Miller thought was The Boss's will, just like Zero. That is what the crux of the end tapes are about. Neither Big Boss or Zero are evil, they simply wish to carry on The Boss's legacy but can't agree about how to go about it. They are only seen as both evil to Solid Snake because he has no context for there actions. The twist and the tapes at the end give us the player context for the actions of both Big Boss and Zero, but they don't change what happened. I also don't really think that post MGS4 Raiden is his own character, hell in 4 he spends nearly the whole game trying to live up to his past and upbringing, running away from his actual identity (Jack) and in Rising he is back to Jack the Ripper, an identity brainwashed into him as a child solider. And yeah, this debating and interpretation shit is awesome Just waiting for Adbro to be able to weigh in with his fucking wikipedia brain of mgs story shit I've mostly forgotten about Edited by baldgye, Sep 22 2015, 08:37 PM.
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