| MGSV Ending + Other SPOILER Discussions; For those who finished | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 12:25 AM (18,701 Views) | |
| Brett | Sep 23 2015, 01:53 PM Post #721 |
Wurmy
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so you're saying before the events of MGSV, you believed there was two iterations of Big Boss and the one that died was a doppelganger of sorts? really? Exactly! But this wasn't known until the events of MGSV. Therefore, It seems like a retcon to me. Edited by Brett, Sep 23 2015, 01:53 PM.
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click for dem tunes 
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| baldgye | Sep 23 2015, 01:56 PM Post #722 |
BANNED
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No, before MGSV I figured that Metal Gear 1 & 2 where MSX games made before a time when story and narrative was really a big deal and neither game had a preticually strong narrative. Hell neither game makes any mention of Big Boss being Solid Snakes 'father' or Snake being a clone of him, that shit was all retconed when Kojima did MGS later. The stories of those games are flimsy and don't actually matter, Kojima took a dumb YOU DIDNT KILL ME LAST TIME trope of movies and older video games (MG inc) and played it into the crazy twist of MGSV. |
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| Brett | Sep 23 2015, 02:00 PM Post #723 |
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Wurmy
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I think the story of MGSV is just as flimsy to be honest. Perhaps I spent too much of my time, getting hyped and excited for this title and story that before we'd even gotten a release date we already knew what was going on. and with that, it's led me to disappointment. Kojima called it ...I feel ashamed of my words at least the gameplay is great! Edited by Brett, Sep 23 2015, 02:02 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 23 2015, 02:04 PM Post #724 |
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But what did you want? The dark game where you play as Big Boss's decent into darkness was Peace Walker, the game that showed why Miller and Big Boss parted ways was most of this plot and you got to see that actually Zero wasn't some evil master mind, he was actually a lot like Big Boss. The biggest weakness of the game is the way the ending peters out, but that's probably on Konami than anyone else. I think a game that gave every fucking member of every other game a back story would be awful because it would mean that everyone knew everyone for ever in some dumb Star Wars prequel bullshit way. That said it did show the early life of Liquid and that his resentment for his creation and existence was something he had felt for most of his life, leading up to Shadow Moses. Edited by baldgye, Sep 23 2015, 02:06 PM.
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| Hoss | Sep 23 2015, 05:12 PM Post #725 |
One and Only
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Just because it wasn't know doesn't mean it is a retcon. It was information we were never given. Now, am I saying Kojima has had this twist under his thumb for 28 years? No, of course not. There's no chance he did, but he probably had ideas, and he found a way to make MG1 and MG2 make sense in terms of BB dying. |
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 23 2015, 05:44 PM Post #726 |
Sahelanthropus
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exactly |
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| baldgye | Sep 23 2015, 10:15 PM Post #727 |
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Alright so I've just done all the Paz stuff and gotten all the tapes and I have to say it was really well done. I didn't have any special like for Paz in Peace Walker, but I did have a great time playing it through twice and her boss fight was really great. Gave me dem feels, the end of her and Chico's life was pretty appalling and violent and they were just brushed aside as the casualties of war like the rest of MB soldiers, but bringing those guys home, and then pairing that with Paz's appearance was really great and well done. |
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| Metal_Gear_Z | Sep 23 2015, 10:19 PM Post #728 |
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Sahelanthropus
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Yeah that was probably my second favorite part of the game. |
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| N-Shifter | Sep 24 2015, 02:00 AM Post #729 |
New Recruit
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In regards to the "Truth". I guess for me personally, I spent a loooong time at the beginning of the game creating my avatar to look like me (like seriously, I had my other half confirm lol) so when the "Truth" ending was shown to me and I see the message from Big Boss on the back of the picture that says "Good Luck Phil ****, From Big Boss" and my face is revealed in the mirror and it actually looks like me and turns out I've played the whole game as ME and not Big Boss I couldn't help but see the genius of it and now after completing the story I can choose Myself from the menu and continue the game..........I dunno, it's just frickin awesome to me  I get that some people don't have that experience as they probably don't take these opportunities to create themselves when avatar options comes up and just make a random face or choose default options but the hint was there, it asks for your name and date of birth so why wouldn't you create yourself? Obviously I'd have loved if chapter two had a bit more meat on it's bones before it got to the "truth" but I can live happily with what I got as some of the missions that were in chapter two were REALLY good, quarantine, your guys saluting you as you....it still hurts. Anyhoo, I loved what I got and am looking forward to MGO 3
Edited by N-Shifter, Sep 24 2015, 02:02 AM.
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| baldgye | Sep 24 2015, 08:57 AM Post #730 |
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It's quite funny IMO the backlash the ending is getting with a lot of MGS 'fans' as they seem to complain about the exact same shit dumb kids complained about with MGS2 it's hilarious how fucking stupid people on MGSForums and the r/metalgear are... Some dumb fuck posted this on r/mg; https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3fjeyt/possible_episode_names_of_the_main_missions/ mgsf autism goes into over-drive and results in this; https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3frn7d/leaked_mission_list_is_not_real_sorry_guys/ It's pretty fucking funny to read greatest thread ever http://mgsforums.com/topic/7730574/1123 Edited by baldgye, Sep 24 2015, 02:29 PM.
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| VicAcid | Sep 24 2015, 03:11 PM Post #731 |
Psycho Mantis
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Really, really well done and I never saw it coming since I was fully prepared for some retcon galore. And the music.. so good. |
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| Gatsu | Sep 24 2015, 05:36 PM Post #732 |
Sniper Wolf
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I tried to create myself in the game, but it didn't look 100% the same as me lol :D. Still it felt nice in the end and I loved the idea. When the doc showed those photos and then Venom moved the other to reveal him(me) in the MSF photo, that was a great moment :). Yeah I'd love that of Ch2 too, but still happy with what I got ^_^. No matter what anyone say of Chapter 2, there's some amazing missions and that Quarantine part is one of the best scenes I've seen in games :D. Goddamn that Extreme Sahelanthropus fight was so amazing. I absolutely love that cutscene which leads to the fight, where Snake escapes from the hangar with this huge fcking MG right behind him. That whole scene is so intense and cool ;D. Also now I can finally try steal nukes oooh yeah =) ! Edited by Gatsu, Sep 24 2015, 07:10 PM.
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| baldgye | Sep 24 2015, 08:00 PM Post #733 |
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Is it one hit and dead? |
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| Gatsu | Sep 24 2015, 08:21 PM Post #734 |
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Sniper Wolf
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Well it wasn't to me from the attacks I took damage of. I barely made it on first try, but all of Salen's attacks put me near death. Maybe I was lucky. |
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| baldgye | Sep 24 2015, 08:33 PM Post #735 |
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I'm getting close to being finished with all side ops (i think) so im starting to look at those extreme things with more interest haha... though I'm not sure I fancy almost insta death Sally and Skulls fights |
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| No Place For Hayter | Sep 25 2015, 12:12 AM Post #736 |
Chico
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 Thanks. Also sorry for the late response, have been busy with work and life for a day and a half, I also posted my response just before I went to bed >.< and and thank you for reading what I said in the way I meant, it can be very hard to convey what one means via text, but I'm glad you were able to read what I wrote, lol.I try not to take things personally as I have no real idea of the thoughts or emotions of the comment, and even if I do take it personally I don't respond so, as well that wouldn't lead to anything good and would simply be degrading my ability to communicate as I would have formed a wall of assumptions. Also "weird twist" taken note of, lol, I will keep this in mind to understand your posts in the future. For myself I can be very opinionated, BUT I am very open and accepting of other peoples opinions. And yeah a phone would make it A LOT HARDER, lol, but I appreciate the effort you put into commenting with your phone, lol. I'm a very unsocial person so the only time I can be here is when I sitting in front of my laptop, after all this and MGI are the only places on the internet you will find me commenting on anything  glad to be here.And I didn't say so before because I was caught up in my rant >.< but thanks for sharing your thoughts on my thoughts, lol, appreciate the point of view, made me realize just how subjective and different our experiences of the gameplay can be  Yeah, loved that Time for a triple post merge, lol. But here is one major reason why I hate the "truth' keep in mind thought this is just purely my thoughts and my opinion a bit unfiltered, so don't take offense if anything comes across as harsh or rude >.< (for those whom have already read my complete thoughts than you have already read this, lol, just Copy Pasted it as the point was relevant and I decided to explain why some people don't like the "You are Big Boss" twist, me included) "BC8) Big Boss is one person/ Big Boss is us Each person is unique, they are important and unique, they build themselves uniquely on their RACE, Culture, GENEs, and MEMEs, and in addition to their SCENE they build their unique SENSE, no one could be another person entirely, let alone a legend that speaks for itself like Big Boss. And yet we have the subtle tone from the ending twist that it is really us that are Big Boss, and that it would not matter the difference between the fake or real one as they ARE the same person on a metaphorical level as Big Boss is suddenly an idea instead of a person. But that is simply absurd and wrong, there is clearly a huge difference between the two despite them supposedly being identical, and they are simply in fact DIFFERENT people whom do different things, they cannot be metaphorically the same because on a base level they obviously aren't, in order to make that metaphorical comparison you need a strong duality between them factually first, which isn't there. And as for the idea presented that we the players are the real Big Boss, is stupid at best, I'm not Big Boss, and even if the story really wanted to say this where are the choices that allow me to BE Big Boss? The series has up till this point been linear you cannot suddenly present the idea we are the character when we already know who he is, and that isn't us. MGS2 had Raiden a reflection of the players, but he is still his own character that makes sense while still being a duality with the player and their life, but in TPP the hint that we are the real Big Boss is not built off of a base that makes sense and the idea is pretty poorly presented and tries to mimic MGS2 in things like your birthday and name input at the beginning, but ultimately comes off as flat and poorly told, I mean why even reuse ideas like that? We never were Big Boss, we still aren't Big Boss, and it is cheap and poor that the story even hints at such an idea at the end. Past games used the fact that you were or weren't the character to subvert what you wanted or expected and twisted it in a way to show you the error of your expectations and that who you are is better and you can do better and to not fall into such a fantasy as it is far more evil and stupid than we think it is, and yet TPP plays right into that fantasy, it subverts your expectations by revealing the fact you aren't playing as the real Big Boss, but what does it do with this subversion? It plays right into your ego fantasy saying YOU are the real Big Boss, we aren't Big Boss and we should never want to be him and yet the game tries to say we are and plays it up like it is a good thing it is calling us Big Boss and that we should enjoy the ego stroke and enjoy our fantasy as reality. It is stupid and works the opposite of the rest of the series and the interesting eye opening messages the series has always had and doesn't get people to think or realize things about their life or their world and it does not show the danger or problem with such fantasies, this is Kojima we are talking about, the guy whom turned the fact that people wanted the same thing for MGS2 they had in MG:S and that he turned the fact that people loved the action thrilling killing of the first MGS and so Kojima turned those thoughts on their heads and really explored the mentality behind those whom enjoyed MG:S for the wrong reasons, and yet here is TPP promoting such fantasy violent killing espionage as if it was a great thing, and that Big Boss is an idea not a person, and we are that idea, that is fricking stupid, Big Boss is not an idea he is clearly an actual guy, nobody can be who Big Boss is, this goes against and contradicts the themes of the first 4 MGS games. Some people are to lost in the ego stroke of "you are Big Boss, anybody can be him because he is an idea" to realize how badly written it is, and that if it sends any messages it is bad ones, and is quite the opposite of what Kojima usually does with his games, and instead of actually sending a message or exploring a concept he simply says "You are Big Boss ISN'T THAT AWESEOME" like some 3 year old whom is only interested in how COOL something sounds but not whether it makes sense or not, and not whether it is thought provoking or not, not whether it is childish or mature, not whether or not it really matters. Kojima wants us to get more from his game than simple entertainment? Well he failed with this in TPP because the story only exists to barely even say "YOU are the real Big Boss" and I'm supposed to take that seriously? Am I supposed to get something from that outside the game? Nope, it is supposed to play into my fantasy, to allow me to run and hide inside the game which is willing to hug me tight and tell me I'm the real awesome Big Boss, MGS2 gets a lot of hate because it won't cuddle you and let you play your reality escaping fantasies about things you should never want, it shows you a harsh reality of the digital world and of ourselves, specifically ripping apart those whom played MG:S and missed the points it was making, MGS2 ripped apart your life escaping fantasies to tell you that real life is far more important than the games, and the real relationships you have with people are far more important, it is your job to pass on what you know to the next generation, not to waste away in a fantasy world, for those whom wanted more fantasy espionage action I only have Solid Snakes response "No, you have things to do first. And people you need to talk to" and opposite of that TPP plays up the horrible fantasies and even encourages it, the funny thing is this message of you are the real Big Boss isn't even done well, it is cheaply and randomly inserted as an idea at the end instead of actually being a concept throughout the game." Edited by No Place For Hayter, Sep 25 2015, 12:23 AM.
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| Hoss | Sep 25 2015, 05:00 AM Post #737 |
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One and Only
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Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Staff member has died Staff Died [Heroism -60] Oh God... oh dear God, I'm so sorry... ;_; No joke, was legitimately hard to kill my own men. Some of the things they say to you... Like I've said in the past, every damn MGS has done somethin' to make me cry or get teary eyed. Though I legit cried a bit when I hit the basement, and the room was full of men saluting me as the PW theme played, as they said ''The Boss will decide...'' :(. Looking back, I sound like a baby lol. ._. Edited by Hoss, Sep 25 2015, 05:53 PM.
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| No Place For Hayter | Sep 25 2015, 10:37 PM Post #738 |
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Chico
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I was a baby too, lol, I took that scene nice and slow, had to absorb all of it. And yeah the gameplay notifications and the lose of heroism is a real kicker in that mission >.< |
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| VicAcid | Sep 26 2015, 01:45 AM Post #739 |
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Psycho Mantis
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They give you the NVG and I'm like "gotta be able to save someone". Nope |
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| Hoss | Sep 26 2015, 05:02 AM Post #740 |
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One and Only
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This ACC is lonely as fuck now. :/ Tfw you know she's gonna speak in English and you can't do anything about it ;_;  But this got a laugh from me cause it was done in a serious but also cute way  Aight, game's beat, errything's S-Ranked except Mission 50. 68% done, got some Side Ops, development shit and a couple tapes. 91 hours. Edited by Hoss, Sep 26 2015, 06:56 AM.
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