| MGSV Ending + Other SPOILER Discussions; For those who finished | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 12:25 AM (18,733 Views) | |
| SolidLiquid | Sep 11 2015, 01:34 AM Post #81 |
Legendary Mercenary
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I wouldn't count on anything happening. The same kind of bullshit theories happened with MGS4. People thought there would be an update 6 months after the release of MGS4 because Snake had 6 months to live after the event of MGS4. And nothing ever happened with that. This "patch" people keep talking about, if there even is one, is probably going to be something for MGO coming out next month. People just need to let it go man. Don't feel betrayed by this ending. The void people are feeling is a "Phantom Pain". Sure, there is a lot of cut content from the story, but I don't think it was going to effect the true ending of this game. I think the concept of the true ending is fantastic, reminds me so much of MGS2, and I fucking love MGS2 for that reason. All this time, we've been waiting to see the descent of Big Boss. For he has been known as the villain of the series. We finally get the opportunity to see how it all unfolds. To ultimately learn it was "us" the players that committed these acts and awful deeds. We broke bad, Big Boss never did. The reason why Venom moves and plays like BB is because we believed we were him and wanted to be Big Boss. We were so desperate to see how he turns evil, that we were blind to the fact that it was us all along. Just like Raiden in MGS2, we were put in a situation that could turn anyone into Solid Snake. A recreation of Shadow Moses. The Selection for Societal Sanity. To prove that the Patriots could make certain events happen by putting people in certain situations and locations. We were so confused the whole time, yet we just keep playing and blindly follow everyones orders. We played Raiden like we would play as Solid Snake. We were carrying on the meme of him. The same goes for MGSV. We carried on the meme of Big Boss. We became him. It's not like the game just put that twist at the end for the sake of a twist. The game hints at it constantly when you look for it. Fucking hell, all the trailers for MGSV hinted at such things. The way the story unfolded completely fits with the Moby Dick and 1984 references. A lot more thought went into this game than what is revealed. I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I honestly dig it. Kojima ending the series by breaking the 4th wall again. The way he ended MGSV just proves to me that Kojima put a lot of passion into MGS2. He tried to end the series with Sons of Liberty. A game that constantly breaks the 4th wall and leaves a lot to interpretation. Much like MGSV. I'm honestly happy fans are not happy with the ending! Like I said, that void you feel fits with the title. You know Kojima intentionally wanted you to feel angry and betrayed. You feel a phantom pain. You feel like there's more, but there's not. The game purposely leaves a lot to interpretation. ITS MGS2 ALL OVER AGAIN, DON'T YOU SEE???...People were fucking outraged for years by MGS2. It's taken many years for MGS2 to get the praise it gets today. It was just completely misunderstood at its time. Kojima has said "As a creator, I always want to betray fans expectations". That is exactly what he did with MGS2 and now MGSV. It's why I love Kojima. He ended it the way HE wanted to. The complete opposite of MGS4. That game tried to tie every loose end and give out the most insane amount of fanservice I've ever seen in a game. I believe MGS2 and MGSV are his most ambitious titles. They have now both received the exact same backlash. MGS2 was praised for how awesome of a game it was. The gameplay, visuals, sound, etc were WAY ahead of its time. Before MGSV, was the highest rated MGS game in the series. MGS2 was then bashed for its story that people had a tough time grasping at first and was bashed because we didn't play as Snake. MGSV is getting praised for its incredibly deep and layered gameplay. Outstanding visuals, sound, etc. In terms of gameplay, it's ahead of its time like MGS2. Yet again, the story is bashed. I understand the complaint of cut content and that goes into the topic with Kojima and Konami but that's another story. People are pissed because we didn't play as the real Big Boss, but we still became him. We are his demon. I just hope people can see where I'm coming from. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 11 2015, 01:48 AM.
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| No Place For Hayter | Sep 11 2015, 03:36 AM Post #82 |
Chico
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(I wonder if it's OK to fully quote such a large post, lol) I can see where you are coming from, but I personally disagree. I agree on how amazing MGS2 was, but I think TPP is HORRIBLE at best, and not because if what we thought it would be but because of what it is. First let me clear up MGS2, MGS2's big surpise twist happened at the beginning and it was essential for themes and messages and the meta narrative of the game, TPP has NONE of this. The twist in TPP comes at the end and thus undermines the ENTIRE story before hand as it wasn't really Big Boss, I don't care for the story before the twist anymore as it does not matter because it isn't Big Boss seeking his revenge it is some random MSF medic, it isn't Big Boss having to kill his men it is some random MSF medic. The twist in TPP does not play into the themes of the game, it does not play AT ALL into the theme of RACE, it does not play at all into the theme of REVENGE, RACE has nothing to do with it and Big Boss couldn't care less about revenge apparently, which is stupid, and this brings me to the biggest problem about the twist how it breaks everything and makes no sense from a basic stand point. For MGS2 you could ignore the meta narrative and still have the game make sense and follow it's rules and logic with consistency, if you ignore any meta narrative for TPP it shows a foundation that is flawed at best. For example Big Boss has always been loved as a character because of how human he was, how attached to his comrades and friends he was, and how he felt and suffered just like we have, but in TPP the real Big Boss is apparently above revenge and above caring at all about his friends and comrades, he decides instead to ignore his revenge and literally ride off into the sunrise to do frick all for the next decade and a half while he lets a phantom of himself take his place, which btw as a plan in itself makes NO SENSE. Why did they create the medic phantom Big Boss? makes no sense in the first place, the best reason I could think of is that the whole world wants his head and in order to go into hiding he creates a fake BB to take the flak, but that doesn't make any sense as WE ARE PLAYING AS THE TARGET and how much flak do we get from the world? NONE, that's right the world couldn't care less. The only reason I could thing of is that the real Big Boss just couldn't care less about his men or revenge and instead chooses to lie to everyone and take off, which is contrary to his character, it is literally going against Big Boss's personality. Also Big Boss's corpse was not found after Outer Heaven was bombed, so now instead of answering an questions TPP just raises more for the MGS series, such as "what happened to venom after outer heaven?". The idea and concept of Outer Heaven has always been with Big Boss, it is closely tied to his personality and his beliefs, and what he does in order to achieve that for himself and others like him, BUT NOW Outer Heaven is formed by medic boss NOT Big Boss, and thus ruins the concept and meaning of Outer Heaven, Both Outer Heaven and Big Boss are SUPER important staples of MGS both of which are brought up EVERY game and talked about in how important and goal achieving they are for people personally and for the world, but now that idea has been polluted with the fact that there are 2 Big Boss's and the fake one makes Outer Heaven, while the real one AGAIN apparently couldn't care less about Outer Heaven and his ideals. There are a lot of people in the MGS series that have known Big Boss, but now we have to ask did they know medic boss or Big Boss? And that isn't even going into how LITTLE story there is in the game in the first place, LET ALONE how oddly and jarringly mission 46 is placed, seriously mission 46 came out of nowhere with no build up or flow. Even with THE TWIST the story is severely LACKING, most people are too caught up in "OMG ENDING AMAZING!" to realize how lacking the game is, the twist came out of nowhere and nothing followed it just slapped us in the face with it and said "that's the end" despite the story not being about OMG BIG BOSS ISN'T BIG BOSS it is about RACE, REVENGE, and about the medic Big Boss, for a story about medic boss the ending is about big boss? why? that's not what the story is about and its not what is important it comes out of no where and abruptly ends the story, with mission 43 we see the start of medic boss's demonic side BUT THAT IS IT, that plot line is not explored or expanded upon, we are also missing mission 51 so the plot threads, Eli, Mantis, ST-84, English vocal card parasites are all left unfinished. Don't get me wrong I loved the story up to and including mission 43 but that does not prevent me from acknowledging how lacking in both story and character development it is. Before release I said that if you are playing as a double it would undermine the story of the game and it's themes, and I was right it did, we not only get an ending that has NOTHING to do with what the rest of the plot was about or trying to convey, but it also ruins what story already happened. Big Boss and Kaz killing skull face, ruined because it is not Big Boss seeking revenge, there are a couple of times through out the game that are meaningful IF YOU WERE THE REAL BIG BOSS, but you are only his "phantom" and thus any importance and character relation in these scenes does not matter because it isn't the real Big Boss. While I'm hating on the story let me go ahead and point out how much I hated the circumstances of Quiet's death, there were so many points during that mission that I just sighed and rolled my eyes on how random and dumb the things that happening were, my suspension of disbelief is only as far as the story and world goes, if it makes sense within the world I accept it without beating an eye lash, but the events of mission 45 are just so absurd and random EVEN IN UNIVERSE I'm surprised no one in game comments on how Quiet was just 'meant' to die because of the amount of random it took to kill her It isn't just ideas and plots people were expecting from TPP, but people were actually expecting to see the cutscenes which were shown. Again this is different from MGS2, MSG2's plan was to deceive and lie, where as the marketing for TPP did not plan to lie, it told the truth at every turn, AND YET there are a lot of INCREDIBLY important emotional scenes in the trailers which we do not see in the game AT ALL. There is also the point of pushing narrative boundaries and tackling taboos and being dark, on that list guess how many TPP even got close to doing? NONE, it did not tackle any taboos, the closest we get is the child soldiers but the way it is handled is cheap and throw away, we rescue them, we can't kill them on or off combat, and we try to teach them new ways of life instead of using them for warfare, THEY AREN'T EVEN PART OF THE OPEN WORLD which they would be as they would be child soldiers in Africa, but fearing the effect on gameplay and what people might do to the kids in an uncontrolled environment the child soldiers only show up in set story missions with the angriest meanest guy in the game yelling down your throat "THERE ARE ONLY KIDS, YOU CAN'T HURT THEM IN ANYWAY BOSS!". The Story in TPP isn't dark at all, the best it got was being creepy and slightly disturbing with the devils house, but not once was the content dark, it did not make anything inside me shift or turn. And TPP's story sure as heck does not do anything new, for all of Kojima's bragging not one of the things he loved to talk about came true in the game. And all of this is NOT talking about what the game COULD have done. Sorry that turned REALLY ranty, I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to change what you think of the story, I just needed to explain why I disagreed, and well I'm honestly surprised it turned out the way it did, so I'm disappointed and need to explain why. With all that out of the way, Yeah I agree on the theory stuff, people always do this (especially with MGS, lol) but 99.9% of the time it turns out to be nothing and turns into nothing, I'm expecting more too, but I know this is all I'm going to get, I'm surprised peoples "OMG RUSE" didn't stop after release, lol. |
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 11 2015, 05:49 AM Post #83 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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Believe me, I see where you're coming from. I just look at the story from a different angle. There is pretty good analysis of it on the internet that sheds some light on it. I don't agree with all of it, but a lot of it is eye opening. http://europeanextreme.tumblr.com/post/128801653764/tpp-analysis I do understand your complaints though. I don't want to come across like this story is godly or anything. I still find MGS1, MGS2 and 3's narrative to be much better. I still do like the story though. There's without a doubt a LACK of story, and that did piss me off. Even with all the optional storylines and cassette tapes, there's still a lack of narrative. I guess what I was trying to say is that I love how he betrayed a lot of the fanbase with the twist. I love that people are pissed about it. I enjoy the fact that we the players, are Big Boss. Altering the perception of good and evil. I didn't really try to praise the "story" so much but what this story does to the fanbase. It reminds me of MGS2. It leaves a lot for interpretation. It betrayed EVERYONES expectations, much like MGS2. I like the controversy behind this. I don't think I'm making much sense here lol I really do enjoy the fact that this "Big Boss" Venom Snake is us. We formed this phantom in our image almost because we believed we were Big Boss. The game leaves you with the feeling of a phantom pain. The overall narrative could've DEFINITELY been written better. I did however enjoy the Moby Dick and 1984 references throughout though. If you haven't read them, at least read a summary and it helps with the plot of TPP. Anyway, do you understand what I'm talking about? I just feel like I'm ranting about nonsense. I enjoy what this ending has done to our perception of the whole storyline. Clearly this story wasn't made to please everyone and I'm perfectly okay with that. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 11 2015, 05:51 AM.
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| Hoss | Sep 11 2015, 06:12 AM Post #84 |
One and Only
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[webm]http://s1.webmshare.com/ZNLmy.webm[/webm] WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!!! Edited by Hoss, Sep 11 2015, 06:12 AM.
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| No Place For Hayter | Sep 11 2015, 06:24 AM Post #85 |
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Chico
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Lol, actually after that comment I understand exactly what you are saying, lol. I do see what you like about it, you are enjoying the stories impact and interaction with everyone and their opinions, you respect and like Kojima's way of giving not what is expected and enjoy the meta narrative of the being that is Big Boss. Yeah I actually read both Moby Dick and 1984 in waiting for TPP, it gives TPP some cool running references ESPECIALLY the Ahab Ishmael relationship. That reminds me there isn't just a Pequod, during the cutscene before you fight the ST-84 there is another Mother Base helicopter that leaves and it calls itself Queequeg, which I didn't notice till I watched the cutscene a second time, lol. |
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| JJBYACH | Sep 11 2015, 08:19 AM Post #86 |
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New Recruit
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Well, here is my opinions on the narrative after letting it sink in for a while. I personally believe Kojima has pulled the biggest mega subversive twist, since MGS2, possibly more so. Furthermore, I believe he answered all our questions and did in fact show us Big Boss' descent into villainy (and no, not just because he used the Medic as a double because to be honest the medic doesn't seem too upset about being used). This isn't some theory I came up with to explain my disappointment in the ending after the fact. I spent a while reading that huge MGS2 analysis before TPP came out, and was really and truly in the "MGS2 mindfuck headspace" when playing the Phantom Pain. As soon as the ending hit, I genuinely felt satisfied and that Kojima had blown my mind. That being said, I beseech you all to read my thoughts with an open mind, and particularly using MGS2 as a framework for thought. Look at the facts and what we know: Kojima has demonstrated in MGS2 he is willing to sacrifice fan expectations/fanservice and what the fans want in order to send a bigger message Moreover, in MGS2 he tried very hard to put the player into the characters head in many different ways (from making Snake a deadly NPC when fighting the Tengus to make the players admire Snake in the way Raiden does, to Colonel's bizarre messages to make the player feel toyed with just like Raiden felt he was) The trailers were obviously incredibly misleading. Almost every scene was taken out of context to make it look like we would be playing Big Boss' descent into hell, when really it felt like anything but. This is extremely similar to MGS2 making all its trailers look like we would play as Solid Snake. This is to say - Kojima has used the "misleading trailer" concept before to great effect Kojima already used the character bait and switch tactic in MGS2 to serve a point. This is a man who knows EXACTLY how attached people get to his Snake characters, and what happens when people are robbed of them. I have to say there is no WAY IN HELL Kojima robbed us of Big Boss' story for the sake of it, or because he didn't think it through. He did this before, deliberately, and received death threats for doing so - so if he did it again he must have good reason. I mentioned this in the earlier bullet, but I want to repeat it because its key to contextualizing this theory. Kojima received death threats for pulling the bait and switch with Raiden in MGS2 With this all being set up, here's my theory. We did see Big Boss' descent into villainy, but not in the way we expected to. We were looking for some new twist, some event or series of events that happened to him that made him turn bad. But really, what could happen? A betrayal? The death of someone he cared about? Well, this has already happened to the greatest possible extent. The reason for Big Boss' descent into villainy was the death of The Boss at the hands of the US government, and Kojima robbing us of Big Boss in this game was to make us feel what Big Boss felt at losing The Boss. Think about it - what better explanation than putting us in the head of the character himself. It's the epitome of show don't tell: don't simply tell us "oh Big Boss got screwed over by some guy who looked like a skull" via plot, instead he gave us the same sense of loss that Big Boss felt when losing the Boss. He put us in the character's head, just like he did in MGS2 with Raiden's bewilderment and noobishness. Think about the death threats he received after MGS2 came out. Kojima has experienced first hand that people feeling the loss of Snake as a playable hero in MGS2 drove them to become monsters. The Phantom Pain of losing Snake led to death threats and drove people to severe rage. And this was just for a video game, let alone losing your mentor of 10 years. The whole theme of Big Boss' fall we have known for a long time - its the loss of The Boss. We already knew this, and its a theme that extends into Peace Walker. But as an audience we still weren't quite getting it. We were just reading this like a tale, we wanted another twist, another "event" that turned Big Boss evil. No matter what plot twist we got we could never be satisfied, because losing his lover, mentor, mother figure, and hero of 10 years to the very government he put his life on the line for could NEVER be matched by anything else. Kojima spent years of his life inside Big Boss' head, he's known the guy for 28 years, and this made sense to him. But he clearly didn't feel he had conveyed that feeling of the loss of one's hero and mentor onto the audience enough, since we were always looking for that story of descent into villainy in terms of plot twists and events. I believe Kojima had the intention to make us experience as deep a loss as he possibly could within the context of a videogame to finally force us to inhabit Big Boss' head. When I finished the Truth mission, and saw the ending, I had been feeling disillusioned with the game. Big Boss wasn't his usual awesome self. He was kind of sterile, not talking, he wasn't the awesome legend he had been built up to be. Then we see the real Big Boss, and the extent to which he lived up to his legend even in the ten seconds we saw was painful to me. Wearing a leather jacket, getting Ocelot to light his cigar up in a real bromance moment, the gruff yet loaded "we'll meet again" between the two, and BB riding off into the sunset with a real cigar in his mouth felt like I'd been punched. I was so enraged, angry, but most of all, I felt loss. I felt like I'd been tantalized with promise by this awesome real fully fleshed out Big Boss (even for the ten seconds he was on the screen) and like he'd been ripped away from me by someone I trusted to give me an amazing game. And in that instant is when I realised I felt the pain of losing a legendary soldier who I had spent ten years with (since Snake Eater came out) to someone I trusted. I felt the pain of Big Boss losing The Boss. That is the real Phantom Pain - one which Kojima made us feel. Observing forums, people swearing at Kojima, at Konami, and thinking back to the death threats he received after MGS2 I realised - loss can make people do terrible things. This is the loss of a video game character, let alone a real person, and its enough to give people such venom and hostility and swear off buying another Konami/Kojima product again - somewhat akin to the emotion Big Boss felt when he swore off helping the US government and left to set up his own mercenary company. The theme of this game is Phantom Pain. The Phantom Pain for us is losing Big Boss, and for Big Boss is losing The Boss. In that moment of anger, rage, and loss you felt at the loss of Big Boss, you inhabited his mindset at the end of Operation Snake Eater. When you swore off buying Kojima/Konami again, you inhabited Big Boss' mindset of swearing off the government. And when the death threats come in, just like they did for MGS2, that is demonstrating how people do monstrous things when facing loss. The thing that clinched it is Kaz even says it himself: "Nine years ago, I thought everything had been taken from me. But now I really have lost it all: the Boss, and the future we were building together". He literally spells out the Phantom Pain one feels when being robbed of Big Boss. Finally, I believe that final conversation between Venom and Big Boss supports this theory as well. Most people took that as a cheesy "you were Big Boss all along, you and he are the same" as a send off to the player. I believe it was more sinister. It was Kojima saying "now you are in Big Boss' head, you're feeling his loss, his Phantom Pain, and how that loss can drive someone crazy" This game was designed to put us in Big Boss' head. We were robbed of a legendary soldier that we had known for ten years by someone we trusted, just like Big Boss was when he lost The Boss because of US government orders. That moment of rage and loss you felt at the ending realising you hadn't been playing as Big Boss was to put you in his head at the end of Snake Eater, and showing you (rather than telling you) why he became a monster. This pain, is ours... 😈 Edited by JJBYACH, Sep 11 2015, 09:56 AM.
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| venom_sina | Sep 11 2015, 11:16 AM Post #87 |
Solidus
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OK,Let's crush this game,shall we?lol. As you may know,after finishing the game,I hated the game really bad!!!There are a lot of things that I don't like about this game: 01.Credits in the beginning of every mission:Every time I started a new mission/episode,these credit things spoiled the whole mission for me,especially the final mission.Starring:Big Boss,Punished "Venom" Snake?WTF?Those credits ruined a lot of missions for me. 02.Helicopter rides:Is it really hard to include a fast travel option?!For every single mission,I had to call the chopper,wait for it,board the chopper,see a loading time,choose a mission from ACC,see another loading time,and finally I'm in the mission area!!!If they added a fast travel feature in the first place,switching missions would be a lot better and less annoying!!! 03.6-hour Missions:Back in the early days of 2015,Kojima said some of the missions are so long that they could take about 6 hours to complete!!!I wanna ask Kojima:Where the fuck are those missions?Why you promise something that you can't fulfill?BTW,the longest missions that I had was about 30 minutes. 04.Special-condition missions:As you know,after completing Ch.1,some missions will unlock.They are the very same missions that you completed in Ch.1,this time with special conditions.My question is why repeat the missions that we already completed once?It seems they ran out of ideas or money. 05.Boss Fights:Just a simple question:Where the fuck are those Boss Fights? Now the story,this is the good part!!! 06.Skull face:I gotta say,he was a good villain and had a lot of potential,but the way he died was really cheap imo.You can't kill the main antagonist (that destroyed your mother base) with some broken metal objects,and the way he acted in that scene...I think he's smarter than that!!! 07.Huey:He's really annoying in this game,he was on my nerves every time he decided to talk!!!Why he's in this game?Why Kojima created this character?Cause some "Otacon" fans may miss their beloved character and Kojima was like this:"Ok,have fun with this guy and don't miss Otacon!!!"His acting is really bad,too imo.You can see that when he kills Skull Face.He seems really happy and having a good time killing SF!!! 08.Eli:This guy is annoying,too!!!Bad voice acting,not talking too much (I think he had only 3-4 lines of dialogues!),pissed off at everyone for no reason and he isn't really a important character.He doesn't add new things to the story.Remove him from the MGSV plot and see what happens.You guessed it:Nothing!!!He's just there!!!Why Kojima bring this guy to this game?Reasons unknown for me.Maybe he thought bringing Liquid to this game is cool and will make fans happy,Whether he's important for the plot or not. 09.Tretij Rebenok:This lil' kid is annoying,too(damn,every single person in this game is a garbage!!!).Cat got his tongue,too,like his friends Eli and Venom.He can manipulate Eli with only sitting next to him!!!And for an unknown reason,he has more powers that his 2005 version!!! 10.Code Talker:Wait,this guy was a soldier in World War 2.His missions was sending coded messages to other soldiers,am I right?So how the hell he turned into a scientist/doctor/professor?and he's a Navajo,not a witch,Kojima!!!If they used a random scientist for this role,I think it was waaaaaaaaaaay better,and made much more sense imo.I think the main reason of his creation is to show the power of Fox Engine!!! 11.Quiet:Don't get me wrong,she's pretty good,but let me tell you something."You will feel ashamed of your words deeds when recognizing the reason for her exposure."Do you remember this?Kojima's statement about Quiet?After completing the game,I thought the reason of Quiet being half-naked wasn't really satisfying.I think Kojima used her beauty and sexiness to attract more audience to his game.He said "You will feel ashamed...",but I think you should be ashamed,Kojima-san!!!Having a half-naked,sexy girl in your game and taking Boobshots left and right...It's like she's trying to seduce the player with those actions of hers!!!Just look at her for 1 minute when your're in the chopper.I think this situation is worse that the Beauty Boss Fights in MGS4. 12.Unimportant characters and Events:There are a lot of characters and events that their presence in this game is not something important.Volgin,Strangelove,The Boss' AI,Paz(especially this one) etc.Why they're there is unknown to me.Fan service,maybe? 13.Dark Theme:Kojima said this a hundred times that this game will be darker than other entries in the series,but where is that dark theme?I don't see any around here!!!You can't open Paz' stomach and spill its contents on the floor and call it "Dark"!!!Or how in the hell Quiet is supposed to help expand the dark theme?Ground Zeroes was way better in delivering a dark theme.Torture,bombs in stomach and vagina,rape.The only darkness that I saw was form the Skull Face's cutscene,but It was more "Gore" than "Dark". 14.Chapter 2 completely:I think you all agree that Ch.2 of this game is the worst chapter in all the video game history!!!Events occur without a single explanation and only 4-5 new missions!!! The worst part is mission/episode 46!!!It is the final mission.I was completing some missions and then this 46 just popped out of nowhere,and that flash forward to 1995,rushed,bad and stupid!!!You ran out of budget or something? 15.The Ending:This part is the worst experience in my gaming history,no kidding.You have to play the hospital scene again,and only the final scenes is different.That ending really pissed me off.I know.Kojima wanted us to experience the Phantom Pain ourselves and feel betrayed by Big Boss,some 4th wall breaking bullshit,but it didn't work for me.We were supposed to see Big Boss' downfall,not a medic's downfall.And another thing:How is it possible?A simple medic performs better CQC than Big Boss?Maybe they put this medic in some Animus or something!!!Poor Solid,he will never know who was who and he killed who!!! I completed the game in September 5th.After the credits and post-credits scene,I got back to the ACC,and I said this:"Fuck Konami,Fuck KJP,Fuck Kojima(this one in particular!!!).They kept us waiting for 3 fucking years and then fucked us with this shitty ending.Fuck this game,I'm outta here."(Sorry for the bad language)I held the PS button,Chose Turn off the console and never played the game since. Finally I wanna thank you for reading this long comment.I really disappointed after the ending.I think the only chance KJP has for escaping this situation is some extra missions via update,like this ingsoc.com coming true.But I don't think they have any plans for expanding the story. Thank You and have a nice day. |
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| iExPreZz | Sep 11 2015, 12:28 PM Post #88 |
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Johnny Sasaki
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I read everything you said with a smile on my face, this quote in particular struck me the most. It would appear to me that Kojima's plan indeed worked, I've read up a lot of explanations of the game's ending and I have to say, in a way it's brilliant. We are the ones who descend into villainy, the rage we felt, the betrayal from the guy who we praised and trusted the most, I wouldn't be surprised if some people even sent death threats to him like they did with MGS2, it's mindblowing how such a thing can affect us in our lives and piss us off so much. I understand it better now, don't get me wrong, I still fucking absolutely hated how it ended, but that's the point Kojima wanted apparently, and seems like it worked perfectly. Spoiler: click to toggle And I sure hope for more to come, if this is it, then great, goodjob Kojima, you managed to successfully make most of your fans hate your guts. If not, then we'll see how it plays out then. Edited by iExPreZz, Sep 11 2015, 12:30 PM.
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| venom_sina | Sep 11 2015, 01:07 PM Post #89 |
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Solidus
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He wanted us to feel The Phantom Pain ourselves,in real world.I know that.Really good,Kojima-san. But this 4th wall breaking has nothing to do with the shitty story(especially in Ch.2).He wants us to feel the pain,fine,but at least give us a good story!!!Where is characterization in this game?Why Paz is in the game?What is the role of Mammal Pod in this game?Maybe a voice recorder!!!There are a lot of nonsense in this game.Kojima-san,before giving us The Phantom Pain in the real world and breaking the 4th wall,at least write an acceptable scenario for your game!!! This game is full of holes(at least in the story acpects).How an incomplete game supposed to give us the pain?I can't get emotional and think about the brilliant thing that Kojima did (which I think is the dumbest idea in the world) when the final mission just came out of nowhere and there is zero explanations for it. If this was Kojima's purpose for making TPP (which I think it is),then I'll stick with the normal and sane version of storytelling!!! Edited by venom_sina, Sep 11 2015, 01:12 PM.
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| Maurycy | Sep 11 2015, 01:32 PM Post #90 |
Johnny Sasaki
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The reason for Paz is explained (try to get her all 11 photos) and is for mammal pod (they tried to hook it up to Sahelanthropus to aid the driver). There are some gigantic as hell loose threads in the story, like the whole Eli thing which is mostly explained by Mission 51. (also one of the first things I thought when I learn that Venom Snake is actually the medic was "Ha, that's why there is no genetic similarities between him and Eli"). I think a lot of the things in the game made a lot of sense, especially when you take a look at MGS2 and realize that Kojima is not satisfied with primary school storytelling where you just give the readers everything on the plate - there comes a time in the lives of readers, moviegoers, art critics where you are not anymore satisfied with everything being obvious and straight and prefer the author to not treat you like a child but like an intelligent human being who can piece things together. I think that's the case with MGSV, some things are explained straight in the tapes, some things you need to figure out yourself by making reasonable logical leaps. Which doesn't explain the awful pacing and the way story points are often (not) connected all too well, this one is unforgivable. Edited by Maurycy, Sep 11 2015, 01:37 PM.
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| Maurycy from MGI, Skellus from Steam | |
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| Gatsu | Sep 11 2015, 01:45 PM Post #91 |
Sniper Wolf
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i didn't read all the long comments, so apologies. @SolidLiquid, I think your post was awesome and I agree with a lot you said. Fans used to hate MGS2 for a long time also. @NP4H Isn't it kind of taboo subject, to include African kids that are being part of some fucked up project by Skull Face, in the Devil's House? But yeah, I think some of the other we were supposed to have are not in the game for some reason. We kind of are playing as Big Boss, because Zero ordered Medic to be done with a perfect "mental copy" of Big Boss. All of his past, CQC technique etc, his mind. Is it possible? I don't know, but it's a game in the end. True that I wanted to play as the original Big Boss too, but they made a perfect doppelganger of him. @Venom_Sina, The game has boss fights, I'm not sure how you didn't see them. Some of them don't feel so cool though. Only one I didn't like was the Sniper Skulls fight. Code Talker wasn't part of the real code talkers from WW2. It is explained in cassette tapes why he is called like that, Ocelot asks him the reason. It seems you hate a lot of this game lol, I didn't have any trouble with Eli for example. He is angry because that's his personality and it gets greater when he realize who Snake is. If it's not clear when, its the latest when Big Boss say "welcome to Outer Heaven". I believe his point in this game was to be the final boss and show us, just how he got to hate his father and Cipher in more detail. The best moments of that was supposed to be Mission 51. I enjoyed having him the game. I'm not sure how fast you played through the game, did you listen to cassette tapes because they have lots of story in them? The longest mission for me maybe took 2 hours, it's not 6 but pretty long. Maybe they were exaggerating with the amount, but it totally depends on how YOU play. As I said to NP4H, AFTER you complete the game you get cassette tapes which includes Zero, Skull Face and others. You get told, that they did a mental copy of Big Boss and Zero started the idea, he trusted Big Boss on Ocelot's care. Copied Big Boss of everything he knows, they had 9 years to do this while Big Boss was in coma too. You can find some answers if think about stuff or play the game well. @All fans, I think many are nitpicking too many things of the game and fail to see how good it is. Sure you have the right to do it after having expecting something else. But imo it's a shame, that after so many years of Kojima and Kojima productions working hard on this and in difficult conditions at the end, their very last MGS game, so many fans call it bullshit. Actually it kind of pisses me off. Is it the best MGS game? No at least storywise, but it still is amazing game. But hey, I'm just one of the millions fans and I don't share same thoughts as some of you :). The game is what it is, there's no changing that so the best thing can do is try enjoy it. It may see I'm slighty angry lol, but I just woke up so I'm sorry :P. Just so many mad comments arghh <(T__T)>. Peace out. Edited by Gatsu, Sep 11 2015, 04:01 PM.
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| venom_sina | Sep 11 2015, 02:30 PM Post #92 |
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Solidus
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@Gatsu.Thanks for your reply. I said there's no boss fights in the game.Sure,there are some(only 1 I think),but they are really bad,and forgettable. Really?You didn't enjoy the female Skulls?I think they were good,at least better than the male versions!!!I wish we had them more in the game. Yeah,I listened to the most of the cassette tapes,maybe I missed some of them!!!I listened to them on the go,when I was on a mission.After I finished the game.I listened to the new tapes.The ending was bad,and those tapes helped to make it worse!!!They made the medic a Big Boss through hypnagogia?I mean,c'mon.This is nonsense,just like the Liquid-Ocelot thing in MGS4!!! About Code Talker:Yeah,he didn't go to WW2,but my question is:How the hell he turned into a scientist?Because he worked with Skull Face for the vocal cords parasite?Just working with SF made him a professor? "I think you're nitpicking too many things of the game and fail to see how good it is." I'm sorry,but I don't see any good in this story.Better to keep my distance from it. Thanks again for your reply. |
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| Gatsu | Sep 11 2015, 02:39 PM Post #93 |
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Sniper Wolf
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Yeah I enjoyed the Male Skulls more, I don't know was it the reason that they kept chasing me more and fight in close. It was intense. But I agree that some of the boss fights are forgettable :), don't give the same feeling like in previous ones. Hmm about Code Talker, I don't 100% remember was it told in one of the cassette tapes, how he got to be a professor. I wasn't just talking about the story itself, but the game overall that calling it bullshit kinda hurts :(... It actually started already back, when Snake's voice changed was confirmed. But it's still okey, because we're all free to express our thoughts on it. I guess it just didn't achieve the expectations for many so can't enjoy it so well. But it's good to read what others think. I wonder how fans would've felt if we had been playing as Gray Fox all this time or Solidus, instead of ex-Medic. Thanks for your reply bro :). Edited by Gatsu, Sep 11 2015, 02:46 PM.
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| venom_sina | Sep 11 2015, 03:04 PM Post #94 |
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Solidus
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@Gatsu,Thanks.I didn't feel any anger in your comment.It was good,lol. Code Talker is not a professor,but the way he acts and knows everything,it's really weird.He knows some things that a scientist/medic/doctor in your team doesn't know!!! Yeah,the gameplay is really good.I had some dislikes for the gameplay which I mentioned above,but the overall gameplay was good.It's about the the bad story.IMO this story is not something for a gameplay like this.The story must connect the gameplay parts together,but in this game we got a ...(OK,I will not use bullshit,let's stick with bad!) story that makes the gameplay hollow.That's the reason that I don't want to go back and continue playing,cause there is nothing for me to push me forward. There's no difference,if they chose Gray Fox or Solidus,when there's no characterization,the story feels bad again and again,and the ending would be disappointing,too. This is just my thoughts.We got a lot of people that liked the game like you and I respect that,and people who think the game was a huge let down like me and NP4H.We're just discussing things.There's no need to be angry or mad at each others.We're friends here,right? |
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| Gatsu | Sep 11 2015, 03:14 PM Post #95 |
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Sniper Wolf
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Alright I understand what you mean. Of course we are friends =), brothers in arms! I asked all of you to come chat here in the first place. Every time I see sort of negative comments of TPP, it just activates some device in me to try and defend it, lol. I guess, I just try to defend TPP because it's MGS, but it's perhaps impossible to change fans minds about how to feel of it. We can still share our opinions for different views etc :). Story of MGS3 still remains the best to me and I was hoping that TPP surpass it, but that didn't really happen. Edited by Gatsu, Sep 11 2015, 04:00 PM.
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| leguywhodrownedquiet | Sep 11 2015, 03:27 PM Post #96 |
Johnny Sasaki
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Now I know the exact reason you're a mod you're so cheerful Now I know the exact reason you're a mod you're so cheerful Edited by leguywhodrownedquiet, Sep 11 2015, 03:27 PM.
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| Gatsu | Sep 11 2015, 03:29 PM Post #97 |
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Sniper Wolf
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Lol, maybe :D... I try to be usually. @JJBYACH, that was good reading thanks :). Edited by Gatsu, Sep 11 2015, 03:50 PM.
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 11 2015, 05:42 PM Post #98 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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Just so you know Venom, there is a fast travel system within the open world. Just like Mother Base cardboard delivery. There are orange platforms at every major location within Africa and Afghanistan. You go up to them and take the invoice that's attached to them. If you collect them all, you can fast travel damn near anywhere. So when you see a orange platform, get in your box and hold triangle and where ever you have picked up invoices, you can fast travel there. Honestly, there are great perks here and there that make the game better or more enjoyable that they don't teach you how to do. I figured out the open world fast travel on my own and when I figured out what the orange platform did, it made the game even more enjoyable because I could bounce around the map in seconds and do a shit ton of side ops in a short amount of time. And as for Paz, she is relevant. She is one of the optional storylines. You need to do the side ops, "extract the wandering mother base soldier" There are 10 of them. And they all carry photos that help Paz remember her past. Then after you find those 10, you'll find an 11th photo. Her story has a nice twist to it. Complete it and you'll understand. And Venom, your reaction to this story is all the more why I love this ending and twist. I'm telling you man, it's like fucking deja-vu. It truly is MGS2 all over again. That game received so much hate and backlash, JUST LIKE THIS lol When the dust settles, I believe opinions will change. Also, Venom read this analysis of TPP. It might help. http://europeanextreme.tumblr.com/post/128801653764/tpp-analysis Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 11 2015, 06:19 PM.
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| venom_sina | Sep 11 2015, 07:16 PM Post #99 |
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Solidus
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@SolidLiquid I didn't know about the fast travel system.Thanks. I did the Paz' mission and I know how to trigger it,and I showed her those 11 photos.Yeah,she was a phantom.But my question is:what is the purpose of this little part?Is Paz adds something important to the story?You know,aside from that gory moment?If they did it for Paz,why they didn't do it for Chico?Cause Paz is a sexy girl maybe?Why everyone think that I didn't complete the game?or I played bad,because I completed the game fast? I totally disagree about comparing MGS2 with this.MGS2 for me was a masterpiece,great story and a character that had a difficult past.Personally I didn't have any problem with Raiden being the main character,and let's not forget about the fact that Snake was present in MGS2 as a support role,and the character change happens in the first hour of the game. Now MGSV:Where is that great,twisted and complex story?Where is that great character?A guy that has no past ?A random medic that barely talks?For me,there is 0 differences between Venom and a broomstick!!! Please don't compare that masterpiece (MGS2) with this.Because they are different in every single way. Thanks for your reply. |
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| SolidLiquid | Sep 11 2015, 07:17 PM Post #100 |
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Legendary Mercenary
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lol You clearly misunderstood or didn't read. I never compared the story or any details of MGS2, I talked about the backlash that MGS2 received after its release because it's the exact same as MGSV. Dat assumption before realizing what I was even saying. Edited by SolidLiquid, Sep 11 2015, 07:24 PM.
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