| Metal Gear General; Discuss all things Metal Gear | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 4 2012, 03:07 AM (23,524 Views) | |
| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 07:18 PM Post #81 |
Negative Nancy
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The more I think about this whole thing less sense it makes. I mean MGS4 reveals he was against the Patriots all this time, ever since Zero put Big Boss in the coma. How could he have killed Donald Anderson and still maintain his cover? It was no secret that he was killed by Ocelot, patriots surely would've known, and knowing Ocelot killed one of their own would've obviously made them think twice about trusting the guy. Again, back to the wasted opportunities, if he was against them, why work for them in MGS2? Excluding MGS4 you could make sense of his character, the only questionable part is why he was on Solidus' side during the Shadow Moses Incident, but I don't think MGS2 touches on when he joined them, so it could've been that he simply was working for him during this, and when the patriots found out he had the Rex's data, decided to use him. That makes sense at least. He was after all in MGS2 just another one of their puppets. But then you have MGS4 saying he wasn't really on their side, and then yeah you have the excuse that he saw Liquid's Outer Heaven as an ideal strike, but then why didn't he see Solidus' plan as one? He had an even better opportunity at that time, but yet he was working on their side during that incident, instead of using Arsenal, he instead pretended to be Liquid to go after them... I'm not really .. |
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| Boxcawk | Mar 18 2012, 07:43 PM Post #82 |
Sniper Wolf
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Like I said, I guess he didn't miss the oppurtunities at all, cause he was still sided with them, it was only when Liquid took over that he sided against them. One would even think Liquid Snake knew of the Patriots and was sick of being just a puppet and wanted a place where a soldier wouldn't be so easily controlled, Outer Heaven. |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 07:54 PM Post #83 |
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Negative Nancy
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Ocelot was very much against the Patriots and was not on their side at all since 1999, according to what MGS4 tells us. He very much missed his opportunities if we go by that, considering the chances he had to strike against them, but chose to instead go solo against them as Liquid According to MGS4 Liquid did know about The Patriots, hell even MGS2 we know he's against them. This doesn't really change anything though since prior to MGS4 we had no idea Ocelot was actually working AGAINST the patriots, in MGS2 he was one of their spies, so Liquid and Solidus being against the patriots worked, because during MGS1 Ocelot hadn't been employed by them and during MGS2 he obviously crushed Solidus' plan to take them on but then Liquid came through and revealed he was going after them That makes sense as crazy as it is, but then when Liquid wasn't really Liquid, but Ocelot fooling himself into thinking he was, you really have to ask yourself why he didn't take them on earlier but instead decided it was a better idea to go after them as Liquid.. |
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| Nyxus | Mar 18 2012, 08:13 PM Post #84 |
Administrator
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Getting rid of The Patriots was a near impossible task, Ocelot and EVA knew that. The only option they had was destroy it from within. Even Metal Gear REX or Arsenal Gear wouldn't be enough to fight an almighty organization. Solidus explained in MGS2 that Arsenal needed full land- sea- and airsupport, otherwise it was just a gigantic coffin. So Ocelot and EVA had to make sure The Patriots wouldn't stop them, but rather unknowingly help them to destroy themselves. That's the essence of their plan, they used Snake as a trojan horse to be able to get to the Patriot system. |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 08:58 PM Post #85 |
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Negative Nancy
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Speaking of which, it's a bit of a deus ex machina that Sunny's worm cluster managed to kill off the patriots "evil" side but maintain the part that keeps society working. But yes, you're right that it was no easy task to get rid of them. Ocelot knew that by seizing GW and taking on JD, the patriots would be forced to aid Snake into destroying GW, which, unknown to them would destroy not only GW but JD itself But how did Ocelot have this figured out? How could he have known that the worm cluster would do what it did? Did it not matter in the end, since either way he would've either nuked JD? Why didn't he just take control of GW during MGS2, he had Solidus with him, he could've used him there and then to gain control of the system, could he not? I remember something about the cluster from MGS2 not being what everyone thought it was.. sigh, it's hard to assess all this since it's not easy to remember every little detail from all games, lol. I'm reading the wiki and something is said about Liquid Ocelot planning the crash of Arsenal Gear into Manhattan so he could later recover the ship with the damaged GW on it.... gahhh, writing this I'm just completely losing track of what even was the problem to begin with.. Ocelot being part of the Patriots and missing opportunities, right.. So that would clear up why he didn't side with Solidus during the Big Shell Incident. Still doesn't explain how he could've killed the Darpa Chief and still somehow maintain his cover. But this did clear up some of the confusion. |
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| Nyxus | Mar 18 2012, 09:01 PM Post #86 |
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Ocelot acted as if he killed the DARPA chief by accident, during the interrogation, right? |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 09:09 PM Post #87 |
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Negative Nancy
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Yeah, but I'm not sure if Nastasha's novel made clear of what actually happened, I would accept it not making clear of it considering no one on that island, not even Snake knew that Revolver had killed him on purpose. But even so, him killing one of their original members, surely couldn't have gone over well with them, hell the fact that he's torturing one of their own wouldn't have been something they would've liked |
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| Nyxus | Mar 18 2012, 09:13 PM Post #88 |
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As far as I know, but the time all of those things happened The Patriots weren't really human anymore, it was all run by AIs. Most of the founding members were already gone and I don't think Zero was still in control at that point. |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 09:20 PM Post #89 |
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Negative Nancy
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Yeah but don't you think they would've been suspicious over Ocelot killing one of their founding members? Even if it weren't run by humans, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't. |
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| Nyxus | Mar 18 2012, 09:23 PM Post #90 |
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I don't know, Ocelot kills a lot of people, they've probably gotten used to it. 
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| SolidLiquid | Mar 18 2012, 09:24 PM Post #91 |
Legendary Mercenary
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I fucking love this discussion right now. |
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| gamerstation151 | Mar 18 2012, 09:52 PM Post #92 |
Johnny Sasaki
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I just fought the Peace Walker. What happens to it is pretty epic. And the moments they chose to use in-game engine for cut-scenes and then the comic cut-scenes where well chosen. |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 10:01 PM Post #93 |
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Negative Nancy
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Just tried a bit of Twin Snakes, thinking of maybe doing a story playthrough of it as well, I haven't done it in forever. I just tried a little bit of it, and god the briefings really suck in TTS, in MGS1 they're so ominous, dark and creepy, here it's just.. no feel at all to it. I guess that's the game in general, it's still cool though for it's own reasons, but it really screwed the atmosphere I really liked the sound echo used in MGS1 as well, you guys probably know what I'm talking about, it really adds atmosphere. |
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| baldgye | Mar 18 2012, 10:01 PM Post #94 |
BANNED
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Yeah that end battle is pretty awesome... its really really well done |
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| Cartman | Mar 18 2012, 11:08 PM Post #95 |
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Negative Nancy
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lol, take part in it then nig. Although it is mostly over |
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| Nyxus | Mar 19 2012, 12:05 AM Post #96 |
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Administrator
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The first or second PW battle? I'm still at the second, I didn't manage to beat him. |
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| baldgye | Mar 19 2012, 12:06 AM Post #97 |
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BANNED
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2nd, the true end boss... I've only finished it on the HD collection version... I find the 2nd PW end boss to be kinda dull lol |
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| Nyxus | Mar 19 2012, 12:10 AM Post #98 |
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Administrator
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I didn't have too many problems last time I tried it, until he was going into launch mode and he was somewhere I couldn't reach the mammal pod very well with the Carl Gustav. That's when I failed. |
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| baldgye | Mar 19 2012, 12:13 AM Post #99 |
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BANNED
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yeah its not hard, just pretty dull... and I find the hit detection when it slides about to be not so great :/ |
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| gamerstation151 | Mar 19 2012, 01:04 AM Post #100 |
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Johnny Sasaki
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I was talking about the 1st one. Wasn't expecting that... Transformation to happen. Was an epic moment. I felt that scene with the horse and the flashbacks to boss's final moment was a bit forced and didn't feel natural.
Edited by gamerstation151, Mar 19 2012, 01:06 AM.
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