William of Orange

Oct 26 2013, 10:07 AM

Some people like you just roll with it. Some people like me are (too) passionate about a well crafted series

jmw

Oct 1 2013, 02:39 AM

I saw this thread and was inspired to dig into the story and outline a few things. It was fun. Here's a pretty stripped down version of events and motivations which lead to the ending of MGS4 as I see them.

I've included some basic info here for the sake of being very clear.

Who are the Patriots? -  Zero and an AI controlled computer system. In MGS 4, the Patriots are solely a computer system. Originally, The Patriots were a team of humans consisting of Big Boss, Dr. Clarke(Para-Medic), Sigint, and Ocelot led by Zero. Eva joined later after running into Big Boss in Hanoi (the capital city of Vietnam).  

The eventual computer controlled Patriots consisted of four AIs; each known by initials: GW, TR, TJ, and AL. These four AIs are held together by one core called JD.


*In MGS4, Snake is thrust into the middle of a confrontation between Liquid and the Patriots.  Campbell sees Liquid as a bigger threat than the Patriots so he sends Snake off on a mission to assassinate him. The Patriots even secretly aid Snake because they don't predict a scenario where they will end up being destroyed by someone other than Liquid.



 
Motivations: 

Zero and the Patriots: Everything Zero does is to propagate the Patriots.  He uses Big Boss as a heroic figure for people to rally behind; inspiring them to give support to the Patriots.  Big Boss doesn't like being used in this manner so he begins to butt heads with Zero.  Zero just secretly clones Big Boss so he doesn't need the real one. Big Boss finds out and is like "That's it! I'm through with you, Zero!!" and storms out of the room : )  Big Boss goes and starts MSF and eventually Outer Heaven.   

The Patriots: Zero wants the whole world to be a unified state. The theme here is uniformity and order.  He thought this was what The Boss wanted and he wants to do right by her. His first step in the plan is to take complete control over the United States.  The Patriot organization was founded in order to achieve this.  (Zero was able to found the Patriots by using the money from the Philosopher's Legacy obtained by Ocelot in MGS 3)  Zero succeeds and takes control of the US president and pretty much all big corporations.  Over time, The Patriots continue to spread and secretly control all goings-on across the entire globe.  Zero's original motivation begins to fade and he just enjoys the power. He eventually gets too old to run everything so he lets his computers take control.  His computers basically want the same thing; uniformity; only they have absolutely no humanity in them so they don't care about people or the state of society; only that it's one big well oiled machine. The computers soon discover that they can run the entire world solely through war. They create the global war economy. It's after this war revolution that the AIs really come into their own; abandoning any semblance of carrying on Zero's original will and start to run the world themselves.  In the old world (before the AIs took over) at least principles and ideals were at play.  Now the computer system simply lives to keep on living.

…and the AIs really do wanna keep on living so they enact a plan to kill all the former Patriot members who now want them destroyed. The AIs use Drebin (an agent of the Patriots since childhood) to inject Old Snake with some new Foxdie which will kill Ocelot, Eva, and Big Boss as he comes into contact with them throughout MGS4. The patriots even secretly put into place a support system for Snake (Drebin and Meryl's unit) so this will be successfully carried out.



Liquid - Liquid is deeply troubled by his origin and past (truthfully, so is Solid Snake) But unlike Solid Snake, Liquid is extremely insecure and needs to feel like the superior Snake, hence the final fight between Solid and Liquid even though the story has already been resolved.  There are a couple other motivations at play which kind of work together. Liquid only understands how to be a soldier and therefore wishes for a world in which a soldier is happiest; one where the whole world is one big battlefield. Secondly, Liquid wants freedom from Patriot control and to wield their power himself so he can shape the world how he sees fit. Essentially, Liquid is carrying the banner of Big Boss. The world should be a battlefield and free from government control. Liquid controls Outer Heaven, which is the mother company over all 5 major PMCs (Which Campbell explains are all large enough to be world powers in themselves).  Liquid wants to use this major influence to bring the world into a state of chaotic war.  Thing is, even though he has control over all these companies he doesn't have control over the Patriots' system which retains control over the weapons the soldiers use (The Sons of the Patriots system) Liquid's goal throughout MGS4 is not only to free his soldiers from the clutches of the Patriot-run SOP system but also to totally usurp the Patriot's power, free himself from all outside control and run the world himself.

Plan A:  Sever the connection between the soldier's nan-machines and the SOP system. PLAN A DOESN'T WORK.  Liquid and Naomi successfully completed this goal in a test but discovered harmful effects that render the plan a failure.  The soldiers went crazy after no longer being maintained by the emotion-suppressing nano-machines.  All of their horrible experiences were bottled up and unleashed all in this one moment when the nano-machines were removed.  

Plan B:  Just hi-jack the entire AI that runs the SOP system and take control of it himself. In order to do this he needs to destroy JD (the main core computer running the network) and somehow get through the security wall surrounding the network. Big Boss's genetic code and biometric data serve as a key of sorts to giving the Patriot computers commands, so Liquid steals Big Boss's corpse (Actually Solidus, unbeknown to everyone) and gets the information he needs. He also rebuilds the destroyed GW computer from MGS2 and is able to use it as a hidden 'agent' inside the network, bypassing the security wall. Both having the command key (Big Boss's body) and possessing an AI inside the Patriot network that JD doesn't recognize as a threat allows Liquid to take over SOP. The final step is to destroy the head computer, JD, and replace it with his own GW. JD's destruction via Metal Gear Rex's railgun (the only remaining stealth nuke not regulated by JD) will allow Liquid to essentially oust Zero and his AI system and take the throne himself; achieving the power to create his own ideal world and no longer be a puppet of the patriots.


Liquid's plan fails because Snake and company successfully destroy GW (along with all the other AIs) keeping Liquid from seizing the Patriots' power. But why does Liquid seem to be pleased at the end of MGS4 after his plan failed? He was able to settle with what happened instead. I don't believe this was his plan all along. I think Liquid really did want to leave the Patriot AI network intact but take control of it himself; giving himself the power to both create his own haven free from authority but also leaving him the ability to basically rule the world using the Patriot network already in place. Even though the entire network ends up being destroyed by Naomi and Sunny's virus; eliminating Liquid's opportunity to use the Patriot system's influence to shape the world, he realizes that ultimately his goal of creating a chaotic, government-less state will be fulfilled. The war economy will collapse along with all the other Patriot system's keeping everything in check. Liquid won't be directly steering the world along this course or retain the power of the Patriots like he would've, but he's okay with that.

Ok, but doesn't that mean that Liquid really did win in the end? He's gonna get what he wants after all! Actually no. Remember Liquid was power hungry and vengeful and actually wanted to take over the Patriots, which he didn't get at all. And as far as his settling for just a plain no-rules global collapse instead, he probably won't even get that. I think the tone in the ending overall conveys hope for the future. The human race will heal and rebuild instead of devolving into a global chaotic state like Liquid would want. Besides, we learn from Naomi that eliminating the Patriots completely was necessary no matter what the cost would be afterward. The Patriot AI's were planning on controlling every human being through an SOP-like system using nano-machines in the near future. Effectively enslaving all humans and eliminating free will! They absolutely had to go.



Ocelot, Eva, and Naomi:  Eva and Ocelot are big fans of Big Boss and just want to save him and destroy the Patriots.  Yeah, they use to be part of the Patriots themselves, but I get the sense that they broke from the Patriots along with Big Boss. Now the Patriots just consist of computers which run the world utilizing the war economy. The computers got out of hand and need to be ended. Naomi's motivation stems out of her desire to atone for her own 'sins' (creating technology which in turn was used for evil) 

Back in MGS2 when the virus was uploaded to the GW computer it leaked some information and Eva, Ocelot and Naomi learned where Zero was hiding. Great, the hard part's done! 

This is when they launch their grand scheme:

1. Eva steals Big Boss's body from the Patriots. (She's got both Liquid's and Solidus's bodies which she uses to mend Big Boss's body)  

2. Ocelot becomes Liquid through hypnotherapy (yeah, it's a stretch).  He does this to distract the patriots.  Essentially, Liquid says "Hey Patriots! Look over here!" and Solid Snake sneaks up and stabs them in the back.  Now, did Ocelot really need to become Liquid to distract the Patriots?  Couldn't there have been some other way that would be slightly more believable?  All very good questions…   Personally, I'm guessing that Kojima regretted killing off Liquid in MGS1 and this was his way to bring him back; Liquid being the perfect antagonist for Solid.

3. Naomi starts work on a virus which will wipe out all Patriot AIs. She secretly passes this off to Snake and company to upload into GW.

________________________


Snake is just a character who gets caught up in the middle of this huge confrontation. He's used as a pawn to save the world. Even though seeing Big Boss's story in MGS3, Peace Walker and the upcoming MGSV is more interesting to me because he's a character who is actually making decisions which are effecting his world, I kinda feel like a can relate strongly to Solid Snake because as a player we are thrust into this confrontation with no idea what's going just like he is. It's a fitting way to experience the story.


There's certainly WAY more that can be talked about when it comes to the events of MGS4, this is just all stuff that's relevant to the story's resolution.

jmw

Oct 1 2013, 02:39 AM

I saw this thread and was inspired to dig into the story and outline a few things. It was fun. Here's a pretty stripped down version of events and motivations which lead to the ending of MGS4 as I see them.

I've included some basic info here for the sake of being very clear.

Who are the Patriots? -  Zero and an AI controlled computer system. In MGS 4, the Patriots are solely a computer system. Originally, The Patriots were a team of humans consisting of Big Boss, Dr. Clarke(Para-Medic), Sigint, and Ocelot led by Zero. Eva joined later after running into Big Boss in Hanoi (the capital city of Vietnam).  

The eventual computer controlled Patriots consisted of four AIs; each known by initials: GW, TR, TJ, and AL. These four AIs are held together by one core called JD.


*In MGS4, Snake is thrust into the middle of a confrontation between Liquid and the Patriots.  Campbell sees Liquid as a bigger threat than the Patriots so he sends Snake off on a mission to assassinate him. The Patriots even secretly aid Snake because they don't predict a scenario where they will end up being destroyed by someone other than Liquid.



 
Motivations: 

Zero and the Patriots: Everything Zero does is to propagate the Patriots.  He uses Big Boss as a heroic figure for people to rally behind; inspiring them to give support to the Patriots.  Big Boss doesn't like being used in this manner so he begins to butt heads with Zero.  Zero just secretly clones Big Boss so he doesn't need the real one. Big Boss finds out and is like "That's it! I'm through with you, Zero!!" and storms out of the room : )  Big Boss goes and starts MSF and eventually Outer Heaven.   

The Patriots: Zero wants the whole world to be a unified state. The theme here is uniformity and order.  He thought this was what The Boss wanted and he wants to do right by her. His first step in the plan is to take complete control over the United States.  The Patriot organization was founded in order to achieve this.  (Zero was able to found the Patriots by using the money from the Philosopher's Legacy obtained by Ocelot in MGS 3)  Zero succeeds and takes control of the US president and pretty much all big corporations.  Over time, The Patriots continue to spread and secretly control all goings-on across the entire globe.  Zero's original motivation begins to fade and he just enjoys the power. He eventually gets too old to run everything so he lets his computers take control.  His computers basically want the same thing; uniformity; only they have absolutely no humanity in them so they don't care about people or the state of society; only that it's one big well oiled machine. The computers soon discover that they can run the entire world solely through war. They create the global war economy. It's after this war revolution that the AIs really come into their own; abandoning any semblance of carrying on Zero's original will and start to run the world themselves.  In the old world (before the AIs took over) at least principles and ideals were at play.  Now the computer system simply lives to keep on living.

…and the AIs really do wanna keep on living so they enact a plan to kill all the former Patriot members who now want them destroyed. The AIs use Drebin (an agent of the Patriots since childhood) to inject Old Snake with some new Foxdie which will kill Ocelot, Eva, and Big Boss as he comes into contact with them throughout MGS4. The patriots even secretly put into place a support system for Snake (Drebin and Meryl's unit) so this will be successfully carried out.



Liquid - Liquid is deeply troubled by his origin and past (truthfully, so is Solid Snake) But unlike Solid Snake, Liquid is extremely insecure and needs to feel like the superior Snake, hence the final fight between Solid and Liquid even though the story has already been resolved.  There are a couple other motivations at play which kind of work together. Liquid only understands how to be a soldier and therefore wishes for a world in which a soldier is happiest; one where the whole world is one big battlefield. Secondly, Liquid wants freedom from Patriot control and to wield their power himself so he can shape the world how he sees fit. Essentially, Liquid is carrying the banner of Big Boss. The world should be a battlefield and free from government control. Liquid controls Outer Heaven, which is the mother company over all 5 major PMCs (Which Campbell explains are all large enough to be world powers in themselves).  Liquid wants to use this major influence to bring the world into a state of chaotic war.  Thing is, even though he has control over all these companies he doesn't have control over the Patriots' system which retains control over the weapons the soldiers use (The Sons of the Patriots system) Liquid's goal throughout MGS4 is not only to free his soldiers from the clutches of the Patriot-run SOP system but also to totally usurp the Patriot's power, free himself from all outside control and run the world himself.

Plan A:  Sever the connection between the soldier's nan-machines and the SOP system. PLAN A DOESN'T WORK.  Liquid and Naomi successfully completed this goal in a test but discovered harmful effects that render the plan a failure.  The soldiers went crazy after no longer being maintained by the emotion-suppressing nano-machines.  All of their horrible experiences were bottled up and unleashed all in this one moment when the nano-machines were removed.  

Plan B:  Just hi-jack the entire AI that runs the SOP system and take control of it himself. In order to do this he needs to destroy JD (the main core computer running the network) and somehow get through the security wall surrounding the network. Big Boss's genetic code and biometric data serve as a key of sorts to giving the Patriot computers commands, so Liquid steals Big Boss's corpse (Actually Solidus, unbeknown to everyone) and gets the information he needs. He also rebuilds the destroyed GW computer from MGS2 and is able to use it as a hidden 'agent' inside the network, bypassing the security wall. Both having the command key (Big Boss's body) and possessing an AI inside the Patriot network that JD doesn't recognize as a threat allows Liquid to take over SOP. The final step is to destroy the head computer, JD, and replace it with his own GW. JD's destruction via Metal Gear Rex's railgun (the only remaining stealth nuke not regulated by JD) will allow Liquid to essentially oust Zero and his AI system and take the throne himself; achieving the power to create his own ideal world and no longer be a puppet of the patriots.


Liquid's plan fails because Snake and company successfully destroy GW (along with all the other AIs) keeping Liquid from seizing the Patriots' power. But why does Liquid seem to be pleased at the end of MGS4 after his plan failed? He was able to settle with what happened instead. I don't believe this was his plan all along. I think Liquid really did want to leave the Patriot AI network intact but take control of it himself; giving himself the power to both create his own haven free from authority but also leaving him the ability to basically rule the world using the Patriot network already in place. Even though the entire network ends up being destroyed by Naomi and Sunny's virus; eliminating Liquid's opportunity to use the Patriot system's influence to shape the world, he realizes that ultimately his goal of creating a chaotic, government-less state will be fulfilled. The war economy will collapse along with all the other Patriot system's keeping everything in check. Liquid won't be directly steering the world along this course or retain the power of the Patriots like he would've, but he's okay with that.

Ok, but doesn't that mean that Liquid really did win in the end? He's gonna get what he wants after all! Actually no. Remember Liquid was power hungry and vengeful and actually wanted to take over the Patriots, which he didn't get at all. And as far as his settling for just a plain no-rules global collapse instead, he probably won't even get that. I think the tone in the ending overall conveys hope for the future. The human race will heal and rebuild instead of devolving into a global chaotic state like Liquid would want. Besides, we learn from Naomi that eliminating the Patriots completely was necessary no matter what the cost would be afterward. The Patriot AI's were planning on controlling every human being through an SOP-like system using nano-machines in the near future. Effectively enslaving all humans and eliminating free will! They absolutely had to go.



Ocelot, Eva, and Naomi:  Eva and Ocelot are big fans of Big Boss and just want to save him and destroy the Patriots.  Yeah, they use to be part of the Patriots themselves, but I get the sense that they broke from the Patriots along with Big Boss. Now the Patriots just consist of computers which run the world utilizing the war economy. The computers got out of hand and need to be ended. Naomi's motivation stems out of her desire to atone for her own 'sins' (creating technology which in turn was used for evil) 

Back in MGS2 when the virus was uploaded to the GW computer it leaked some information and Eva, Ocelot and Naomi learned where Zero was hiding. Great, the hard part's done! 

This is when they launch their grand scheme:

1. Eva steals Big Boss's body from the Patriots. (She's got both Liquid's and Solidus's bodies which she uses to mend Big Boss's body)  

2. Ocelot becomes Liquid through hypnotherapy (yeah, it's a stretch).  He does this to distract the patriots.  Essentially, Liquid says "Hey Patriots! Look over here!" and Solid Snake sneaks up and stabs them in the back.  Now, did Ocelot really need to become Liquid to distract the Patriots?  Couldn't there have been some other way that would be slightly more believable?  All very good questions…   Personally, I'm guessing that Kojima regretted killing off Liquid in MGS1 and this was his way to bring him back; Liquid being the perfect antagonist for Solid.

3. Naomi starts work on a virus which will wipe out all Patriot AIs. She secretly passes this off to Snake and company to upload into GW.

________________________


Snake is just a character who gets caught up in the middle of this huge confrontation. He's used as a pawn to save the world. Even though seeing Big Boss's story in MGS3, Peace Walker and the upcoming MGSV is more interesting to me because he's a character who is actually making decisions which are effecting his world, I kinda feel like a can relate strongly to Solid Snake because as a player we are thrust into this confrontation with no idea what's going just like he is. It's a fitting way to experience the story.


There's certainly WAY more that can be talked about when it comes to the events of MGS4, this is just all stuff that's relevant to the story's resolution.