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Litchi Faye-Ling General Topic (Spoilers ahead!); Is Boobie Lady kind or...?
Topic Started: Dec 23 2011, 08:48 AM (1,601 Views)
ChrisX
An insensitive jerk
Okay this is one topic for Litchi, story and gameplay-wise. Go ahead and discuss about her. I personally have more things to say story-wise to her.

As you can see, her in NOL is a very sensitive spot to me. Is it still right to say she's a good person? Is it right to say she's smart, or instead she's fallen into levels of dumbass? Is she still sympathetic and giving off that comforting aura? Will she fall into further evil judging from her weak, dependent personality? Will she ever get a life outside pinning on Arakune?

I always hoped for the positive, but with many people instead ignoring her... things aren't going so well for me... and her...

Come, let us show sympathy...

(Please don't take it like I hate her. I like her. A LOT. And it's one of the reasons why I'm very adamant about her and her defense...)
Edited by ChrisX, Dec 23 2011, 09:33 AM.
Considering I'm not in the main RP, and everyone refers me with my old name anyway, may as well.
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Litchi Faye-Ling
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Oriental Flower
Some people say Litchi manipulates Mantenbou (Her staff) with her mind, but I say it's Lao Jiu. He's probably the mastermind behind all of these magic tricks. (Since she ask's him, "Please, Lao Jiu!" )

But, that's just me.
What do you think?

Anyone?
Ayva Caddell
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ChrisX
An insensitive jerk
My thought is that Lao Jiu provides her enough power to manipulate the Mantenbou. Think of it like Lao Jiu being her mana source, while the fighting and prowess were all by her. Lao Jiu carries/provides the energy supply and Litchi decreed which action was to be taken with the power.

Or that's what I think.

Usually a fundamentally good people use the phrase 'please' even if they're not really begging. So I think that's how.
Considering I'm not in the main RP, and everyone refers me with my old name anyway, may as well.
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Musashi
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Swordsman of Science
If that's the case, then drunk Litchi trading off Lao Jiu to dress up Noel in cute outfits is a silly thing.
And I love it.

(I'M CONTRIBUTING.)
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ChrisX
An insensitive jerk
(RANT ALERT)
(RANT ALERT)
(RANT ALERT)

Okay... I think it's about time I came full on about how this has been troubling me. This is one thing I am really infamous for, in a bad way. I hope you don't see me funny because I rant like an obsessed fanboy. I think Hazama (Takoto) knows this... but here goes.

I really really was crushed with how Litchi became a bad girl by joining NOL.

I know NOL on whole isn't a 'bad guy institute' whereas 'having evil in their heart' becomes a requirement for joining. However, the circumstances given so far gave it like she was there because she is selfish and cares nothing more but Arakune. As if given the choice between "Not save Arakune" or "The world burn", she'd choose the latter. In Hazama's story, it was like she was dumbed down into "I will love and worship anyone who can save Arakune", which is one moment he said "We have the cure!", that is when her tone changed to a less hostile one. It gave the vibes that 'all that's in her head is just Arakune this Arakune that, the rest goes to hell'. It also gave the vibes that she's an idiot who's easily swayed with candies, despite what her brain and science portfolio says. And despite people saying she's so independent, it instead reveals that she is a completely dependent person on Arakune. Something like "I can't live without him... I must save him even at cost of the world rotting thanks to one gigantic bastard..." What was so romantic about that? It sounds more stupid than romantic!

Some people accepts that she is still stuck in the past and the only way to move on is to save Arakune. Why do you think 'just accepting he's not savable and was just asking for it himself, it's his fault' not moving on? Has she even TRIED that? Also some people label her 'obsessed'. Does anyone realize how far an obsessed people in fiction can go? If it means burning the whole world for the obsession... it shall be done. Was that definition for 'obsession' spot on? Who does Litchi consider friend? Only Arakune or there's more? If there's more, why did she act unfair for them and made Arakune like some sort of golden-friend?

Perhaps I set the expectation too high? Expecting her to be a thoroughly good person who will die first before serving evil or becoming a heel? To keep her face status forever in a perfect record? Was I setting the bar too high and suffered because of it?

What should I trust about her then? I want to believe she is Good (near incarnate), but all of these seems to point to her neutrality. What should I believe in her as a character and her alignment?

Not to mention, the audience I meet so far wasn't taking it as big as a problem. And even make jokes of it. Even ASW. As in the latest Platinum gag reel, they make her a big bad villain there. Everyone else has been hoping that Litchi embraced her villainy or succumb to become Arakune Mk. II. This is making me feel uncomfortable and unable to take joke about 'villainous Litchi'...

I think I need help... Please... at least can anyone tell me how they feel about Litchi, about her alignment, her character (dependence, intelligence, obsession), hopes for her future, their faith on her... I think mine has been really shaken after that event and I am still struggling to fix it no matter what... I just don't know how and needs help...
Considering I'm not in the main RP, and everyone refers me with my old name anyway, may as well.
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MaesLawliet
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You bring up some very good points in your rant.

However, my personal opinion is that Litchi's decision to join the NOL wasn't just because Hazama says 'we've got a cure for Arakune'. Sure that was a part of it, but I believe that it was more because she knew that her own corruption was progressing quicker than she thought. This ultimately left her with two choices if she wanted to save Arakune:

1. Ignore Hazama and continue to attempt to cure Arakune until her corruption progresses to the point where she becomes like Arakune.

or

2. Join the NOL, potentially curing herself and Arakune as she chose to do. In this choice, she's also protecting the populace from herself should she become completely corrupted.

Just a suggestion here but it may be that Litchi doesn't know what it is that the Imperator and the others are planning as she has no lines of dialogue in the true ending. We're not even sure if she knows that Arakune's been captured. If she does know he's been captured the situation may be that Hazama/Relius/Imperator have said to her: 'We've captured him and if you want to save him, you'll do what we say.' Purely speculation but I think it could be possible.

As you said though, the problem comes in when obsessiveness is brought up. I recall her saying to Hazama that she knows he's not a normal person but she doesn't care as long as she can find a cure. This indeed does show obsession as she's willing to work with the most sinister person she's ever met. Rachel also backs this up before she fights her in her own story.

Where this obsession takes her besides already joining the NOL, I can't honestly put my finger on it. You mentioned burning the whole word in exchange for keeping Arakune alive. Personally I'm unsure of what she would do in this situation. The obsession in this case would most likely point to keeping Arakune alive but I don't think Litchi hasn't exactly thrown away her sense of morality even if she already knows that she's dirtied her hands with the power of the Boundary and joining the NOL.

It could also be argued that it's not her own obsession spawning but rather her corruption is eroding her mind to the point where she makes these decisions. Once again, just a thought.

As for Litchi's current alignment, I still believe that she's a good person although her position on a hypothetical 'goodness scale' has changed. Personally I would compare her to a sort of 'Robin Hood' character, acting for the the benefit of others even if the methods are questionable.

Overall though, I believe that Litchi as a person has become lost and desperate as a combination of not knowing what to do to save Arakune, feeling guilty for what happened to him and asking for help which she truly needs but not getting any. To her, I imagine that Hazama's offer was a Godsend even if it came from a shady person and news of her corruptions quick progression only made it more tempting.

I sincerely hope that she's able to redeem herself in the next game. Believe!
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ChrisX
An insensitive jerk
MaesLawliet
Jan 3 2012, 10:25 PM
You bring up some very good points in your rant.

However, my personal opinion is that Litchi's decision to join the NOL wasn't just because Hazama says 'we've got a cure for Arakune'. Sure that was a part of it, but I believe that it was more because she knew that her own corruption was progressing quicker than she thought. This ultimately left her with two choices if she wanted to save Arakune:

1. Ignore Hazama and continue to attempt to cure Arakune until her corruption progresses to the point where she becomes like Arakune.

or

2. Join the NOL, potentially curing herself and Arakune as she chose to do. In this choice, she's also protecting the populace from herself should she become completely corrupted.

Just a suggestion here but it may be that Litchi doesn't know what it is that the Imperator and the others are planning as she has no lines of dialogue in the true ending. We're not even sure if she knows that Arakune's been captured. If she does know he's been captured the situation may be that Hazama/Relius/Imperator have said to her: 'We've captured him and if you want to save him, you'll do what we say.' Purely speculation but I think it could be possible.

As you said though, the problem comes in when obsessiveness is brought up. I recall her saying to Hazama that she knows he's not a normal person but she doesn't care as long as she can find a cure. This indeed does show obsession as she's willing to work with the most sinister person she's ever met. Rachel also backs this up before she fights her in her own story.

Where this obsession takes her besides already joining the NOL, I can't honestly put my finger on it. You mentioned burning the whole word in exchange for keeping Arakune alive. Personally I'm unsure of what she would do in this situation. The obsession in this case would most likely point to keeping Arakune alive but I don't think Litchi hasn't exactly thrown away her sense of morality even if she already knows that she's dirtied her hands with the power of the Boundary and joining the NOL.

It could also be argued that it's not her own obsession spawning but rather her corruption is eroding her mind to the point where she makes these decisions. Once again, just a thought.

As for Litchi's current alignment, I still believe that she's a good person although her position on a hypothetical 'goodness scale' has changed. Personally I would compare her to a sort of 'Robin Hood' character, acting for the the benefit of others even if the methods are questionable.

Overall though, I believe that Litchi as a person has become lost and desperate as a combination of not knowing what to do to save Arakune, feeling guilty for what happened to him and asking for help which she truly needs but not getting any. To her, I imagine that Hazama's offer was a Godsend even if it came from a shady person and news of her corruptions quick progression only made it more tempting.

I sincerely hope that she's able to redeem herself in the next game. Believe!
Fan reactions, from what I see thus far, has been kinda like 'ignorant' or 'Her good parts are unimportant!' or 'Who cares, that just means more people to be legally squashed by Ragna' or 'Noel/Rachel/Makoto is MUCH better' or 'What an Idiot!'. Litchi has been some sort of black sheep amongst the game creators AND audience. Her thunders of 'purely good person' and 'fanservice machine' was taken over by Makoto. But I'm glad that at least in this board there are some good Litchi supporter (I know Velvien sympathizes with her, and there's you and Litchi (user)). Would you say "Screw the rest, just believe in the likes of us."?

It seems that the CS Extend did little to the hostage situation, as if to make it look like she's purely there for obsession. So, on the basis of "Yes, I know you are suspicious and not normal, but I don't care, as long as I get the cure!" was it such a negative connotation for her overall goodness? Does that DECREASE her good alignment status? Because most likely people use that as a way to bash her.

And if working with someone obviously evil like Hazama was an 'OK' for Litchi, what would be of further burning the world? She already sacrificed a lot, she showed MORE care for Arakune and the rest, thus it's like she doesn't CARE about anyone else not named 'Lotte Carmine'. Can you show events showing WHY she cared about other person than Arakune? Taking account on how after seeing Relius did his thing to Carl, she chose to stick with Relius and risk destroying Carl's trust on her, any normal person would've said "Screw you, Relius"... or perhaps I'm only shoving in my brand of justice selfishly.

Not sure if Robin Hood is a good comparison. Wasn't Robin Hood's premise "Rob the rich, and give the poor, because the riches are bastards that had it coming"? If you were thinking of such comparison to Litchi, she would've not worked with NOL but stealthily steal informations from them and develop something for the good of the masses oppressed by their totalitarian rule. Robin Hood is ALWAYS a Rogue, he never joins the officials. So yeah, where's the similarity with Robin Hood here?

And for good measure, if you think she IS good, then please tell me facts on WHY you can't call her fallen to Neutral which is lower than Good.

Thanks.
Considering I'm not in the main RP, and everyone refers me with my old name anyway, may as well.
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Bonesy
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Kaka
>neutral >lower than good

I disagree with that statement.
"in the latest air bud sequel air bud finally reunites with earth bud, fire bud, and water bud to defeat dark bud"
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ChrisX
An insensitive jerk
Bonesy
Jan 4 2012, 05:00 AM
>neutral >lower than good

I disagree with that statement.
Um... well how did you disagree? Always good to see other perspective.
Considering I'm not in the main RP, and everyone refers me with my old name anyway, may as well.
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Bonesy
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Kaka
What, you'd rather litchi be EVIL on the spectrum? You're overreacting about all of this.
"in the latest air bud sequel air bud finally reunites with earth bud, fire bud, and water bud to defeat dark bud"
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