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Week 27; Super Effective! a.k.a elements
Topic Started: Oct 3 2014, 10:09 AM (564 Views)
ROBANN_88
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Fire beats Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, and Fairy
Water beats Fire, Ground, Rock, Ice, and Steel
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel
Grass beats Water, Ground, Rock, and Electric
Ice beats Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon
Fighting beats Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel
Poison beats Grass, Fairy, Fighting, and Bug
Ground beats, Fire, Electric, Poison, Rock, and Steel
Flying beats Grass, Fighting, Bug, and Ground
Psychic beats Fighting and Poison
Bug beats Grass, Psychic, Dark, and Ground
Rock beats Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Poison
Ghost beats Psychic, Poison, Bug, and Fighting
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric, and Grass
Dark beats Psychic and Ghost
Steel beats Ice, Rock, Fairy, Grass, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Dragon, and Poison
Fairy beats Fighting, Dragon, Dark, and Bug
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 8 2014, 08:35 AM.
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Kefiroth
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*funeral dirge*

I'm a ghost type now.
Edited by Kefiroth, Oct 3 2014, 02:45 PM.
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Kirbymuncher
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Kefiroth
Oct 3 2014, 02:44 PM
*funeral dirge*

I'm a ghost type now.
You're an Ex-Kefiroth

<____<

(I'll post some thoughts on this challenge later, just didn't want to get beaten to this dumb joke)
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Kirbymuncher
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Beats 2 things
Psychic beats Fighting and Poison
Dark beats Psychic and Ghost

Beats 3 things
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel
Poison beats Grass, Fairy, and Fighting

Beats 4 things
Grass beats Water, Ground, Rock, and Electric
Ice beats Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon
Fighting beats Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel
Flying beats Grass, Fighting, Bug, and Ground
Bug beats Grass, Psychic, Dark, and Ground
Ghost beats Psychic, Poison, Bug, and Fighting
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric, and Grass
Fairy beats Fighting, Dragon, Dark, and Bug

Beats 5 things
Fire beats Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, and Fairy
Water beats Fire, Ground, Rock, Ice, and Steel
Ground beats Fire, Electric, Poison, Rock, and Steel
Rock beats Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Poison

Beats 9 things
Steel beats Ice, Rock, Fairy, Grass, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Dragon, and Poison



Loses to 1 thing
Ghost

Loses to 3 things
Water
Electric
Dragon
Dark
Fairy

Loses to 4 things
Fire
Flying
Psychic

Loses to 5 things
Ice
Fighting
Poison
Ground
Rock
Steel

Loses to 6 things
Bug

Loses to 7 things
Grass

Tried to sort out the various elements by how many things they beat, and a separate list of how many things they lose to. The things that jump out at me right away are that dark is the only thing which beats ghost (though it doesn't beat much else), steel beats a ton more things than the next best, and water seems like one of the best overall choices in terms of safety and beating things.
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Choco
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But what if mayo is a genwunner. Then Psychic beats everything.
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Kirbymuncher
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Actually, it would beat two things (fighting, poison) and lose to one (bug). Which is significantly worse than what ghost does here.

Starting with anything that loses to steel seems like a bad idea to me. Also I feel like starting dark is a bad idea since it's the only thing that will beat ghost.

Other than that, it's mostly just levels of counter-prediction .
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ArchangelBaruch
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I would propose stuff to vote, but it went catastrophically bad the last time I did so I think I'm going to be in the sidelines.
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ROBANN_88
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so, is there a reason that cody and Cocainus picked the same thing, or just coincidence?
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Choco
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considering they picked a non-crappy type that would win against steel...
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Choco
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as for us, rob, we should probably go with grass
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ROBANN_88
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yes, i completely agree with that.
if we're lucky, one of us will be picked to sit out before we go three times in a row
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Cody11533
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That was a coincidence. I'm no turncoat! I was gone all weekend, so I sent in a tentative move on Friday, and somehow we ended up picking the same type.
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Choco
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this time I think either bug because it sucks or fire because the others have already used up a lot of things fire's good against
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ROBANN_88
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Cody11533
Oct 5 2014, 04:14 PM
That was a coincidence. I'm no turncoat! I was gone all weekend, so I sent in a tentative move on Friday, and somehow we ended up picking the same type.
i was 85% joking about it being on purpose
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Choco
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rob

bug or fire
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ROBANN_88
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let's go with Bug, as it loses to more things than Fire.
and if we still have Fire, they'll be more apprehensive to use Steel later on
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ROBANN_88
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just wanna write down my thoughts while i still have them fresh. now we're at round 3.

so FvP, hapexamendios and Swiftblade in rank 0 are stuck in a great loop of ties for a while, with a different person sitting out every time.
it will only be at round 7 that we'll see any kind of results there.

due to the Sitting Out rule, me and choco will tie eachother now, and won't have to face eachother next time cause it's only me, him and Cody who haven't sat out yet, and Cody will be either eliminated or in rank 2 all by himself by the end of this round (unless they tie)

so at round four, while one sits out, either me or Choco will face lucky and whoever wins that goes up to rank 2 and face one of Cody/Dragon in round 5-7 depending on purposefully tie or not, while one of us (me or choco) stays alone and won't have to face anyone until round 8 when whoever wins of FVP, hapex and Swift moves up to rank 1, and one of them is still stuck alone in rank 0.

and after that, there are too many variables for me to organize my thoughts in to a coherent text
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ArchangelBaruch
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The more players we get to higher ranks the better. It means non-Gemini will have to burn through their reserves to reach us.

When someone reaches level 2 it would be a good idea to evaluate what our potential opponents have as elements to burn through what isn't useful.
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Choco
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ROBANN_88
Oct 6 2014, 08:02 AM
let's go with Bug, as it loses to more things than Fire.
and if we still have Fire, they'll be more apprehensive to use Steel later on
alright
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ROBANN_88
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ArchangelBaruch
Oct 6 2014, 11:03 AM
The more players we get to higher ranks the better. It means non-Gemini will have to burn through their reserves to reach us.
the problem is that when there are two of us in the same rank, we are forced to fight each other. granted, so are they, but they currently have the numbers on us.

but we can't really do anything else but just win as much as possible
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 6 2014, 01:47 PM.
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Choco
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I love how cody is wrecking everyone's shit
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Cody11533
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I'm not sure I'd call 2 wins wrecking everyone's shit. I like the enthusiasm though.
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Choco
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guys, make sure to save ghost for when you fight swift or hapex, who already used up dark
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ROBANN_88
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i can't decide what to pick against lucky.
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Choco
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Kirbymuncher
Oct 3 2014, 04:08 PM
Beats 2 things
Psychic beats Fighting and Poison
Dark beats Psychic and Ghost

Beats 3 things
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel

Beats 4 things
Poison beats Grass, Fairy, Fighting, and Bug
Grass beats Water, Ground, Rock, and Electric
Ice beats Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon
Fighting beats Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel
Flying beats Grass, Fighting, Bug, and Ground
Bug beats Grass, Psychic, Dark, and Ground
Ghost beats Psychic, Poison, Bug, and Fighting
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric, and Grass
Fairy beats Fighting, Dragon, Dark, and Bug

Beats 5 things
Fire beats Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, and Fairy
Water beats Fire, Ground, Rock, Ice, and Steel
Ground beats Fire, Electric, Poison, Rock, and Steel
Rock beats Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Poison

Beats 9 things
Steel beats Ice, Rock, Fairy, Grass, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Dragon, and Poison



Loses to 1 thing
Ghost loses to Dark

Loses to 3 things
Water loses to Electric, Dragon, and Grass
Electric loses to Grass, Dragon, and Ground
Dragon loses to Ice, Fairy, and Steel
Dark loses to Fighting, Bug, and Fairy
Fairy loses to Poison, Fire, and Steel

Loses to 4 things
Fire loses to Dragon, Water, Ground, and Rock
Flying loses to Electric, Ice, Rock, and Steel
Psychic loses to Dark, Bug, Ghost, and Steel

Loses to 5 things
Ice loses to Fighting, Fire, Water, Rock, and Steel
Fighting loses to Psychic, Poison, Flying, Ghost, and Fairy
Poison loses to Psychic, Ghost, Ground, Rock, and Steel
Ground loses to Grass, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Water
Rock loses to Grass, Fighting, Water, Ground, and Steel
Steel loses to Electric, Fighting, Fire, Water, and Ground

Loses to 7 things
Bug loses to Poison, Flying, Ghost, Fairy, Fire, Rock, and Steel
Grass loses to Poison, Ice, Flying, Bug, Dragon, Fire, and Steel
fixed poison -> bug
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Choco
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holy shit we might actually win.
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ArchangelBaruch
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This goes without saying, but in the case you beat FvP and the last rank 2 players are Gemini, things can easily be stalled and rigged so that the elements of the one remaining beat the ones hapex will have left.
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ROBANN_88
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well, if Choco comes up to rank 2 with us, he and i can't tie again
since we've already tied against each other twice, we have to let one of us win, or we both get eliminated
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Dreamwalker
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Administrator
I hope he beats FvP. I didn't realize Cody up there could outrig Hapex doen there.
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ROBANN_88
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so, Cody.
got any preference on what element to pick right now?
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ArchangelBaruch
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ROBANN_88
Oct 10 2014, 11:09 AM
well, if Choco comes up to rank 2 with us, he and i can't tie again
since we've already tied against each other twice, we have to let one of us win, or we both get eliminated
I somehow missed that rule for not being listed with the others.
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Cody11533
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ROBANN_88
Oct 10 2014, 11:16 AM
so, Cody.
got any preference on what element to pick right now?
I haven't looked at it yet, but we should drop whichever element is most useless against FvP and Hapex. I'm going to check that out right now.
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Cody11533
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Offensively, Psychic is useless against FvP and only beats Hapex's Fighting. Posion also loses to 5/4 of their things respectively, and only beats FvP's Fairy. Either of those would probably be best.
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Choco
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Cody11533
Oct 10 2014, 03:26 PM
Posion also loses to 5/4 of their things respectively, and only beats FvP's Fairy.
wat

Hapex hasn't used up anything that would lose to Poison
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ROBANN_88
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Cody11533
Oct 10 2014, 03:26 PM
Offensively, Psychic is useless against FvP and only beats Hapex's Fighting. Posion also loses to 5/4 of their things respectively, and only beats FvP's Fairy. Either of those would probably be best.
let's do Psychic, then
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Cody11533
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OK, I'll send in Psychic.
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Kefiroth
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I have no idea how this challenge works, but I'm rooting for you guys.
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ROBANN_88
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alright, one more time then.

i'm leaning towards going with Ice, cause they have both already used it, and they have already used 2 and 1 things respectively that it beats
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Cody11533
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Ice sounds good.
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ROBANN_88
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i just realized that i have already used Ice.

you keep Ice, and i'll go with Poison instead, cause they are neautral against each other, and they have both used that one too
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Kirbymuncher
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Beats nothing:
Flying
Poison

Beats 1 thing
Ghost beats Psychic
Fire beats Steel

Beats 2 things
Dark beats Psychic and Ghost
Fairy beats Dragon, Dark
Rock beats Fire, Flying

Beats 3 things
Fighting beats Rock, Dark, and Steel
Water beats Fire, Rock, and Steel
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel

Beats 4 things
Ground beats Fire, Electric, Rock, and Steel
Steel beats Rock, Flying, Psychic, Dragon



Loses to nothing
Dark

Loses to 1 thing
Ghost loses to Dark
Electric loses to Dragon

Loses to 2 things
Water loses to Electric, Dragon
Fairy loses to Fire, and Steel
Ground loses to Flying, and Water
Rock loses to Water, and Steel

Loses to 3 things
Fire loses to Dragon, Water, and Rock
Flying loses to Electric, Rock, and Steel
Fighting loses to Psychic, Flying, Ghost
Steel loses to Electric, Fire, Water

Loses to 4 things
Poison loses to Psychic, Ghost, Rock, and Steel

Recounted some stuff, removing all the elements FvP has already used from the list. Poison and flying don't seem too useful at this point, while ground, electric and water all seem like solid choices
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Choco
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well fuck, I messed up

not this round, I still think Fighting was a solid choice, but last round where I went with Ghost to "play it safe"

I didn't realize until right after the update that I was effectively robbing you of one of your ties

god dammit
Edited by Choco, Oct 12 2014, 11:54 PM.
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ROBANN_88
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one of us has to lose.
is anyone seeing any strategic value of one over the other?
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Cody11533
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I'm at school right now and don't have time to check. Whoever is set up with better elements against FvP should go on, although we should check against Hapex too just in case he goes on an improbable run. I might have time to check later, but no promises. I have a big test tomorrow that I need to cram for.
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ROBANN_88
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i just worked on the calculations

i have 21 possible combos to defeat FVP. Cody has 19
i have 26 possible combos to defeat hapex. Cody has 31

FVP has 19 possible combos to defeat me. He has 22 to defeat Cody
hapex has 25 possible combos to defeat me. he has 28 to defeat Cody

it's very close, but if we are going by statistics, i should be the one to move on

i'm sending in Flying before i go to bed, as that one is completely useless against FVP.
if you agree to this, you should send in Ground
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ArchangelBaruch
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If the Math is right (haven't checked) yes, it makes sense that you win.
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ROBANN_88
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ArchangelBaruch
Oct 13 2014, 03:03 PM
If the Math is right (haven't checked) yes, it makes sense that you win.
i can post my chart if you want
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ROBANN_88
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eh, i'll post it anyway. might be good for second opinions on probability statistics.

i made this very basic, so i don't know if the format works well in a forum post.

here you see the full list of what beats what, and what it gets beaten by, only counting what is still in play.
to explain it, i'll use the first line as an example
FVP has Fire. among what me an/or Cody still has left, Fire beats Steel and Fairy
i have one thing that can be beaten by Fire, while Cody has two, signified by the R1 and C2
then, on the right, Fire is beaten by our Water, Ground and Rock. both me an Cody have all three of those, signified by R3 and C3

at the bottom of FVPs section you'll see the added total of things that he can beat on the left, R19 means he can beat me with 19 combos.
and on the bottom right is how many combos that i can beat him with in total, shown by R21

and of course, down in our section, our Fire beats Grass, Bug, Steel, and Fairy. FVP has one of those, and Hapex has four, shown by F1 and H4

FVP
Fire beats Fairy----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Fire loses to Water, Ground------------------------------------------R2--
Water beats Fire, Ground--------------------------------------------R2-----------Water loses to Electric----------------------------------------------R1--
Electric beats Water------------------------------------------------R1-----------Electric loses to Ground---------------------------------------------R1--
Flying beats Fighting, and Ground-----------------------------------R2-----------Flying loses to Electric---------------------------------------------R1--
Ghost beats Fighting -----------------------------------------------R1-----------Ghost loses to Dark--------------------------------------------------R1--
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric----------------------------------R3-----------Dragon loses to Fairy------------------------------------------------R1--
Dark beats Ghost----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Dark loses to Fighting, and Fairy------------------------------------R2--
Steel beats Fairy --------------------------------------------------R1-----------Steel loses to Electric, Fighting, Fire, Water, and Ground-----------R5--
--------------------------------------------------------------------R12------------------------------------------------------------------------------R14--

hapex
Water beats Fire, Ground--------------------------------------------R2-----------Water loses to Electric----------------------------------------------R1--
Grass beats Water, Ground, and Electric-----------------------------R3-----------Grass loses to Fire--------------------------------------------------R1--
Fighting beats Dark ------------------------------------------------R1-----------Fighting loses to Ghost, and Fairy-----------------------------------R2--
Ground beats, Fire, Electric----------------------------------------R2-----------Ground loses to Water------------------------------------------------R1--
Rock beats Fire ----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Rock loses to Fighting, Water, Ground -------------------------------R3--
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric----------------------------------R3-----------Dragon loses to Fairy -----------------------------------------------R1--
Steel beats Fairy --------------------------------------------------R1-----------Steel loses to Electric, Fighting, Fire, Water, and Ground-----------R5--
Fairy beats Fighting, Dark------------------------------------------R2-----------Fairy loses to Fire -------------------------------------------------R1--
--------------------------------------------------------------------R15-------------------------------------------------------------------------------R15--

ROB
Fire beats Grass, Steel, and Fairy----------------------------------F1---H3---------Fire loses to Dragon, Water, Ground, and Rock-----------------------F2---H4
Water beats Fire, Ground, Rock, and Steel---------------------------F2---H3---------Water loses to Electric, Dragon, and Grass--------------------------F2---H2
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel-----------------------------F3---H2---------Electric loses to Grass, Dragon, and Ground-------------------------F1---H3
Fighting beats Rock, Dark, and Steel--------------------------------F2---H2---------Fighting loses to Flying, Ghost, and Fairy--------------------------F2---H1
Ground beats Fire, Electric, Rock, and Steel------------------------F3---H2---------Ground loses to Grass, Flying, and Water----------------------------F2---H2
Ghost beats Fighting------------------------------------------------F0---H1---------Ghost loses to Dark-------------------------------------------------F1---H0
Dark beats Ghost----------------------------------------------------F1---H0---------Dark loses to Fighting, and Fairy-----------------------------------F0---H2
Fairy beats Fighting, Dragon, Dark----------------------------------F2---H2---------Fairy loses to Fire, and Steel-------------------------------------F2---H1
--------------------------------------------------------------------F14--H15----------------------------------------------------------------------------F12--H15
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 15 2014, 12:44 PM.
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Cody11533
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That sounds like our best bet, I'll choose Ground. Godspeed, Rob.
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Choco
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good thing your names all start with different letters. otherwise this would never have been possible
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