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Week 27; Super Effective! a.k.a elements
Topic Started: Oct 3 2014, 10:09 AM (563 Views)
ROBANN_88
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oh, good. i was worried i'd have to face them both one at a time.
now i only have to face one
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Cody11533
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Make sure you're prepared to face either FvP or Hapex. They'll probably get both of them to rank 2 and have whoever is better off win and move to rank 3.
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ROBANN_88
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so, they are probably just gonna tie as many times as they can to try and back me in to a corner.
by the time one of them comes up to rank 3 with me, we'll only have two options left.

i don't know what to throw out first.
any suggestions are appreciated
(the chart on last page is updated as of after Round 9)
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ArchangelBaruch
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I'd say your most useless element is Dark? You have a good advantage against FvP, so you may want to get a better position with hapex.

I would say Fire, but it's too versatile.
Edited by ArchangelBaruch, Oct 15 2014, 02:11 PM.
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Cody11533
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Ghost/Dark seem to be in the same boat, where they're good against one and useless against the other. Every other remaining element has multiple uses. Fire is the only one in which they have more potential kills than you do.

I'd say Dark for now, and probably Ghost next round if they continue stalling it out.
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ROBANN_88
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let me know if you think this plan sucks.
instead of focusing on getting stuff that can beat them, i was thinking of making sure they just can't beat me easily.

Ghost can only be beatenh by one element from FVP.
and Dark can only be beaten by one element from hapex.

if i pick those two at the end i might be able to stall enough for the elements to reset.
and if the third time ends up being a tie (if i'm reading the rules right) it will let Cody and choco along with whoever among them that loses, making the tables turned completely

for the rule in question, am i reading it right. would that be the end result?
Quote:
 
If two players tie each other three times, they are both eliminated. If this results in every player being eliminated, all the players at the next highest rank will be added back into the challenge.
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Kirbymuncher
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That actually sounds like a pretty good idea to me, unless I'm also misunderstanding the rules. It'll be 2v1, plus cody and choco will have a lot more options to choose from than FvP/hapex

Edit: I might have counted the turns wrong, but it looks like whichever of them is left will have exactly 1 element left when it comes time to fight choco/cody. Can't get an easier win than that
Edited by Kirbymuncher, Oct 16 2014, 04:49 AM.
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ROBANN_88
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Kirbymuncher
Oct 16 2014, 04:46 AM
Edit: I might have counted the turns wrong, but it looks like whichever of them is left will have exactly 1 element left when it comes time to fight choco/cody. Can't get an easier win than that
really?
by my calculations it seems that if i manage to pull this off, we will run out of elements by my second tie, at which point the list will reset

Quote:
 
In the event that 17 rounds have passed and a winner has still not been declared, everybody still in will have their element choices replenished.


wait, "everybody still in will have their element choices replenished."
maybe it's just a bad language choice, but what about people that aren't in by the time of the reset?

and Edit: Choco would probably not get back in, as he was in rank 1 when he lost, not 2 as i had thought. so it would be just Cody
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 16 2014, 08:33 AM.
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ArchangelBaruch
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It's a good idea, but if they play it smart you'll basically have 50% chances of instalose in the last round.
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ROBANN_88
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can someone else just confirm if it's mine or kirbys math that is right here about how many elements will be left after we tie three times?
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Cody11533
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Hapex wins, both are at rank 2: R12
Tie 1: R13
Tie 2: R14
Someone moves on to rank 3: R15
Rob vs. whoever 1: R16
Rob vs. whoever 2: R17
3rd tie: Restart elements

Is this right?
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ROBANN_88
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yeah, that's what i got too
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Kirbymuncher
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Oh, I see why I counted it wrong, forgot the two extra ties after hapex wins.

Not sure I'm too fond of the strategy anymore considering it'll just be a random chance 1v1. Unless of course the thing you pointed out about people not being in missing out on replenishment is actually true
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ROBANN_88
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no, i highly doubt that is true.
i was just thinking out...in text.
but i'll ask mayo just in case

EDIT: Mayo said
Quote:
 
Cody and the loser of the hapex/FVP match will be returned to the game with all of their elements returned.


right now, i have 5 chances on FVP and he has 4 on me.
and i have 4 chances on hapex and he 6 on me

alternative strategies are welcome.

i can't use both Fire and Water, cause then hapex will get me with Dragon instantly
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 18 2014, 08:17 AM.
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ROBANN_88
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but i'm second guessing the Ghost/Dark strategy, cause Ghost can't take anything now.
what aboyt maybe Fairy to counter the OP Dragon and either Fire or Water depending on what they doo next?

it's still a 50/50 shot, but right now i can't see anything much better than that
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ROBANN_88
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that last round changed quite a bit.

now FVP has 3 combos against me, and i have 1 against him.
while hapex has 2 combos against me and i have 3 against him

updated bracket

FVP
Fire beats Fairy----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Fire loses to -------------------------------------------------------R0--
Water beats Fire----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Water loses to ------------------------------------------------------R0--
Steel beats Fairy --------------------------------------------------R1-----------Steel loses to Fire--------------------------------------------------R1--
--------------------------------------------------------------------R3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R1--

hapex
Grass beats --------------------------------------------------------R0-----------Grass loses to Fire--------------------------------------------------R1--
Dragon beats Fire, -------------------------------------------------R1-----------Dragon loses to Fairy -----------------------------------------------R1--
Fairy beats Dark----------------------------------------------------R1-----------Fairy loses to Fire -------------------------------------------------R1--
--------------------------------------------------------------------R2--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R3--

ROB
Fire beats Grass, Steel, and Fairy----------------------------------F1---H2---------Fire loses to Dragon------------------------------------------------F1---H1
Dark ---------------------------------------------------------------F0---H0---------Dark loses to Fairy-------------------------------------------------F0---H1
Fairy beats Dragon--------------------------------------------------F0---H1---------Fairy loses to Fire, and Steel--------------------------------------F2---H0
--------------------------------------------------------------------F1---H3-----------------------------------------------------------------------------F3---H2
Edited by ROBANN_88, Oct 20 2014, 12:39 PM.
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Kirbymuncher
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Looks to me like your best bet is playing dark this round, which basically just puts it to a 50/50 gamble in the end
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ROBANN_88
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the problem here is that i'm not sure which of them they decide to put forward.
they gotta see that FVP currently has the best numbers.

and if i have still have Fairy and he goes up, he wins.

i don't think i can take that risk
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Kirbymuncher
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That's actually not true, because it would require FVP to have both fire AND steel. This would mean he played water vs hapex... which can never result in a win for him, so he wouldn't advance at all.

So if you face off against FVP, he'll have either water+fire or water+steel.
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ROBANN_88
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oh, you're right.
yes, that makes Dark the only choice this turn.

thank you, i would probably not have noticed that without you.
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ROBANN_88
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so, FVP used Steel.
he has Fire and Water, and i can't beat any of those now.

best thing i can hope for is a draw
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ROBANN_88
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i literally just tossed a coin for this one
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ArchangelBaruch
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Nice counter.
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Kirbymuncher
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So, go with either steel or water?

At least imo
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Choco
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I don't think they'd pick something that loses to Steel.

I think Electric is a pretty safe bet. Beats Steel and Water; Ground is the only real danger. EDIT: Dragon too I guess :/
Edited by Choco, Oct 22 2014, 02:05 PM.
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Choco
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Choco
Oct 9 2014, 10:58 AM
Beats 2 things
Psychic beats Fighting and Poison
Dark beats Psychic and Ghost

Beats 3 things
Electric beats Water, Flying, and Steel

Beats 4 things
Poison beats Grass, Fairy, Fighting, and Bug
Grass beats Water, Ground, Rock, and Electric
Ice beats Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon
Fighting beats Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel
Flying beats Grass, Fighting, Bug, and Ground
Bug beats Grass, Psychic, Dark, and Ground
Ghost beats Psychic, Poison, Bug, and Fighting
Dragon beats Fire, Water, Electric, and Grass
Fairy beats Fighting, Dragon, Dark, and Bug

Beats 5 things
Fire beats Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, and Fairy
Water beats Fire, Ground, Rock, Ice, and Steel
Ground beats Fire, Electric, Poison, Rock, and Steel
Rock beats Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Poison

Beats 9 things
Steel beats Ice, Rock, Fairy, Grass, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Dragon, and Poison



Loses to 1 thing
Ghost loses to Dark

Loses to 3 things
Water loses to Electric, Dragon, and Grass
Electric loses to Grass, Dragon, and Ground
Dragon loses to Ice, Fairy, and Steel
Dark loses to Fighting, Bug, and Fairy
Fairy loses to Poison, Fire, and Steel

Loses to 4 things
Fire loses to Dragon, Water, Ground, and Rock
Flying loses to Electric, Ice, Rock, and Steel
Psychic loses to Dark, Bug, Ghost, and Steel

Loses to 5 things
Ice loses to Fighting, Fire, Water, Rock, and Steel
Fighting loses to Psychic, Poison, Flying, Ghost, and Fairy
Poison loses to Psychic, Ghost, Ground, Rock, and Steel
Ground loses to Grass, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Water
Rock loses to Grass, Fighting, Water, Ground, and Steel
Steel loses to Electric, Fighting, Fire, Water, and Ground

Loses to 7 things
Bug loses to Poison, Flying, Ghost, Fairy, Fire, Rock, and Steel
Grass loses to Poison, Ice, Flying, Bug, Dragon, Fire, and Steel
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Choco
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Or you could pick Ghost, so they have one less "relevant" element to choose from after the very likely tie.
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ArchangelBaruch
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Ghost looks like the most obvious choice.

I'd go with Water. It's still tanky against the top attackers yet it defeats tons of stuff.


Dark and Elec are also decent choices. Dark especially in case lucky decides to stop secondguessing himself and go for the best element, Ghost.
Edited by ArchangelBaruch, Oct 22 2014, 02:26 PM.
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Kirbymuncher
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Choco
Oct 22 2014, 02:03 PM
I think Electric is a pretty safe bet. Beats Steel and Water
This thought process is exactly why I haven't been submitting elements for the past ~3 weeks so I'm a little hesitant to recommend it

Edit: also, a tie at this point means they will both be eliminated, and cody + hapex will come back, so it doesn't really help that much
Edited by Kirbymuncher, Oct 22 2014, 02:45 PM.
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ROBANN_88
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Choco
Oct 22 2014, 02:20 PM
Or you could pick Ghost, so they have one less "relevant" element to choose from after the very likely tie.
this round has no effect on what elements are left for Cody and hapex
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Choco
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yes I forgot about that part jeeze stop bullying me
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ROBANN_88
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Electric only beats 3 things.

i'm thinking either Ground, Fire or Water, maybe?
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Choco
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looking at the elements you're considering, fire is probably a bad idea unless lucky's mentally somewhere else entirely
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ROBANN_88
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well, my job here is done.

good luck to you, Cody
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Cody11533
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This is starting to get silly.

By the way, nice job Rob.
Edited by Cody11533, Oct 23 2014, 05:53 PM.
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Choco
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Cody11533
Oct 23 2014, 05:53 PM
This is starting to get silly.

By the way, nice job Rob.
that reminds me of a guy on the SSB board called NoJobBob
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Cody11533
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Well, sorry guys.
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Dreamwalker
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Administrator
Good luck to you 3 on the Rebel challenge. I think it will be Machete DESCRIBING what covers look like to you.
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