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Week 27-2 & Week 28 for some reason; Bad Box Art & some other subtitle
Topic Started: Oct 26 2014, 02:24 AM (629 Views)
Cody11533
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ROBANN_88
Nov 1 2014, 03:37 PM
i should have picked Steel
Same. I'm sorry Rob.
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Cody11533
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As for this week's challenge, I'm running a Twitter account for a class in school that might actually help.

https://twitter.com/SmashWorldCup14

I've been running matches between Lv. 9 computers in Smash 3DS. There are a few differences (random stages, 2 vs. 2, items on, time instead of stock) but it can't hurt. Also, I'm shamelessly plugging my twitter account.
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Dreamwalker
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Good luck with that, Cody.

Oh, and Choco, 80 is probably more accurate.
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Cody11533
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After thinking about it, I don't think it will actually help at all. There are too many differences.

Anyway, I tested it a bit with Mayo's rules, and I think I'm going to choose either Rosalina or Samus. There are 2 aspects to this: the FFA and then the final 2. Ideally, a character should be able to survive for a long time until it gets down to 2 characters, and then win the head to head matchup at the end. For example, I found that Dedede was really good at getting to the end, but ended up getting 2nd a lot. Also Choco, I'm not sure how much Mayo's AI's are different than mine, but Little Mac performed really poorly in my testing.
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Cody11533
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And after saying that, Little Mac wins the next match. I think my biggest take away from my testing is that this is another luck-based Overlord challenge, and literally any character could win. Anyone wanna try Jigglypuff? :P
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Dreamwalker
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Woohoo.. Kirby confirmed winner in Group 1.

Let's see if Gem can get the other 2 group wins too. That would be awesome.
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Dreamwalker
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2/3, not bad. What 2 characters go good together? Are there 2 who are maybe unlikely to attack each other and more likely to attack whatever third person is with them?

Edit: Ignore me. I thought you were going to select new characters. My mistake. Congrats Cody. :)
Edited by Dreamwalker, Nov 2 2014, 10:23 PM.
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ROBANN_88
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so, i got a PM from Machete talking about a rumor that me and kirby had some form of deal with the other teams.
he doesn't want to go in much detail now that i made it clear that i have no idea what he's talking about.

does anyone know anything about that?
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ArchangelBaruch
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Yes, we had. It's called Chimera.
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Cody11533
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Machete was really drunk last night during the BB competition, so I wouldn't be surprised if he sent a nonsensical PM.

Anyway, I can't believe we won that. Who should I nominate?
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ROBANN_88
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ArchangelBaruch
Nov 3 2014, 05:08 AM
Yes, we had. It's called Chimera.
no, this seemed like something else

"What I meant was I heard you and kirby had some deal where although your side and an opposing side would still target each other as planned, you two would be essentially de-prioritized as targets (suggesting that the rest of gemini would be targeted first). It was a brief and vague description though and it seemed to be more of a rumor. That's what I meant (if it makes any sense or has any level of accuracy)"

it's probably just full of shit, or he was drunk again.
Edited by ROBANN_88, Nov 3 2014, 08:02 AM.
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Kirbymuncher
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Yeah I have no idea what he's talking about

And considering that you ended up getting voted out, I'd think it's obviously not true <_<
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Choco
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that's not something a host should even talk about what the fuck.
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Choco
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Cody11533
Nov 3 2014, 06:28 AM
Machete was really drunk last night during the BB competition, so I wouldn't be surprised if he sent a nonsensical PM.

Anyway, I can't believe we won that. Who should I nominate?
lucky x 3
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Dreamwalker
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I agree with the Lucky nom and with the Machete hate.
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ROBANN_88
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Choco
Nov 3 2014, 10:47 AM
that's not something a host should even talk about what the fuck.
he mentioned it cause he thought i knew more
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Cody11533
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So, Lucky/Lucky/Lucky? I want to ask one more time before I put the noms up, in case anyone has a better plan.
Edited by Cody11533, Nov 3 2014, 06:41 PM.
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Dreamwalker
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I mean that's what I'd do... but I'm not even someone you have to ask.

At the very least it'll be a fun event to look back on at the end of the game if you nominated all Lucky.
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Kirbymuncher
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That's a pretty clear declaration of Lucky as an enemy... which I suppose might not be the worst thing we could do, given the circumstances.

As long as you're fine with that, I'd say go for it
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Dreamwalker
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Okay, Kirby, you've got a challenge to win.

Also, I think I need to adjust my forum time settings. Ew.. and I think I may have archived the first page of the current topic with my old highlighting settings prior to the DST change. That's going to mean the timestamps change in the middle of a topic archive. :/
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Kefiroth
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I did moderately well with this challenge in Dream's game, so I'll see if I can work up a respectable solution to this one as well.

*looks at topic title*

we are in Week 28, right?
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Dreamwalker
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We could just change the topic title, I guess. Or at least I can; I'm not sure if you can.
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ArchangelBaruch
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Well, FUCK this challenge. Have fun with all those colors, guys.
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Cody11533
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I'm not sure I'll be able to help with this challenge, so best of luck.
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Kirbymuncher
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My best so far (assuming it's a valid path, still need to double check) seems to be 65 rooms visited.

The ability to start anywhere makes this a lot harder than the TES1 version, you can spend forever creating a perfect path but if you didn't happen to see the ideal starting spot you've already lost
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Kefiroth
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EDITED TO REMOVE BAD PATH
Edited by Kefiroth, Nov 5 2014, 09:12 AM.
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Kefiroth
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Hmm...double checking my path, it seems I meet a dead end at A6. Going to see if I can rework it a little to make it work.
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Kefiroth
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Okay, let's try this slightly modified path. It covers 76 rooms.

Start: H3

WWWSE SSSSS SENEN NWNNN EEESS SSSWN NNNNN NNSWW NWWWS WNWSW SESWS SSSSS EEENW WNEEN ENWWN EENNE EE

Posted Image
If I'm correct, one should be left with only 3 purple keys at the finish. Be sure to double/triple check it if this is the one you're sending in (don't forget to include the text directions when you submit).

edited to include text directions.
Edited by Kefiroth, Nov 5 2014, 09:13 AM.
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Dreamwalker
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Perhaps we could count the number of doors and keys of each color and look at each color's key/door ratio to determine which doors should be picked more often (and to a lesser extent, which keys are more important to grab).
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Dreamwalker
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Someone can double-check my count if they want.

Red Doors: 90
Green Doors: 45
Blue Doors: 23
Purple Doors: 11
Black Doors: 11
Total Doors = 90+45+23+11+11 = 180 = the correct number of doors in total

Red Keys: 51
Green Keys: 26
Blue Keys: 13
Purple Keys: 6
Black Keys: 6
Total Keys = 51+26+13+6+6 = 102, which could explain why hitting all the rooms is so hard
To double-check my counting here, I also added up the keys in all rooms (ignoring color) and also got 102.

KEY-TO-DOOR RATIOS (expressed as keys/doors * 100% for each color)
Red: 56.67%
Green: 57.78%
Blue: 56.52%
Purple: 54.55%
Black: 54.55%

So for every color, we (eventually) have enough keys to go through between 1/2 and 3/5 of the doors of that color.

Observe that since a PERFECT solution requires passing through at least 100 doors, we must pass through at least 49 red doors, 24 green doors, 11 blue doors, 4 purple doors, and 4 black doors. The remaining at least 8 doors can be up to 2 of each color.

If (in particular) we must enter any room more than once (Note: Here I'm not considering finishing by entering the first room again as entering that room more than once), then I believe the way the grid works out we would actually have to do 2 doors beyond the 100, which would mean we'd have to specifically travel through 51 red doors, 26 green doors, 13 blue doors, 6 purple doors, and 6 black doors.

If neither such "perfect" solution is possible, we must make appropriate adjustments from their, keeping our almost-working paths and our numbers of keys in mind.
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Dreamwalker
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I figured out a great way we could work on this.

Since there's very few keys, we want to hit most of the blank rooms as late as possible while still backtracking as little as possible.

(Maybe you guys already working on this already had that in mind.)
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Dreamwalker
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I got 81 rooms. There should be 1 red key left at the end of this path. Someone please double-check this. Any of you 3 (Baruch, Choco, Kirby) who wish to use this for the challenge may do so.

Here's the text version...

Start: J6
Move: SWWWN WNWNN ENWWN EEESS EENNE SSSWW SWNWN WWNWW NWSSS SESEE ESWWW WSESW SEENE SEEEE NNWWN NESES ESSEN NNWNW EE

Actually, that's 92 moves and there are 102 keys total and my path only didn't pick up 9 of them and only had 1 picked-up key unused, and 92+9+1=102, so I don't think this needs much double-checking. I'm pretty confident I did everything correctly. Still, double-checking can't hurt.

Posted Image
Edited by Dreamwalker, Nov 5 2014, 01:57 AM.
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Dreamwalker
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Now I will spend some time looking for tie-breaker, in case somehow Taurus or Scorpio get exactly Gemini's best score (which will be 81, unless one of you comes up with something better).

For tie-breaker, we need to minimize the possible score but make sure it is at least 4.

Edit: Starting at E1 yields a maximum score of 4. Can someone confirm this? Note that since this can be optimized so easily using even the top row, it's possible that the other people will also put you on E1 for the tie-breaker and then you guys would both tie with a score of 4.
Edited by Dreamwalker, Nov 5 2014, 02:07 AM.
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Choco
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Dreamwalker
Nov 5 2014, 12:12 AM
Someone can double-check my count if they want.

Red Doors: 90
Green Doors: 45
Blue Doors: 23
Purple Doors: 11
Black Doors: 11
Total Doors = 90+45+23+11+11 = 180 = the correct number of doors in total

Red Keys: 51
Green Keys: 26
Blue Keys: 13
Purple Keys: 6
Black Keys: 6
Total Keys = 51+26+13+6+6 = 102, which could explain why hitting all the rooms is so hard
To double-check my counting here, I also added up the keys in all rooms (ignoring color) and also got 102.

KEY-TO-DOOR RATIOS (expressed as keys/doors * 100% for each color)
Red: 56.67%
Green: 57.78%
Blue: 56.52%
Purple: 54.55%
Black: 54.55%

So for every color, we (eventually) have enough keys to go through between 1/2 and 3/5 of the doors of that color.

Observe that since a PERFECT solution requires passing through at least 100 doors, we must pass through at least 49 red doors, 24 green doors, 11 blue doors, 4 purple doors, and 4 black doors. The remaining at least 8 doors can be up to 2 of each color.

If (in particular) we must enter any room more than once (Note: Here I'm not considering finishing by entering the first room again as entering that room more than once), then I believe the way the grid works out we would actually have to do 2 doors beyond the 100, which would mean we'd have to specifically travel through 51 red doors, 26 green doors, 13 blue doors, 6 purple doors, and 6 black doors.

If neither such "perfect" solution is possible, we must make appropriate adjustments from their, keeping our almost-working paths and our numbers of keys in mind.
*there
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Dreamwalker
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Hey, I stayed up late working on this. Cut me some slack. <_<
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Kirbymuncher
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Dreamwalker
Nov 5 2014, 02:03 AM
Edit: Starting at E1 yields a maximum score of 4. Can someone confirm this? Note that since this can be optimized so easily using even the top row, it's possible that the other people will also put you on E1 for the tie-breaker and then you guys would both tie with a score of 4.
I can see a path for 4 but it doesn't return to the starting location.

On a related note, I found a few high scoring paths only to come back here, see the paths already posted, go to reread the rules, and notice I had totally overlooked the rule about starting and ending in the same place. I think I need more sleep, been staying up late playing games too much recently
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Dreamwalker
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Oohh.. thanks for double-checking that. Forgot about having to return to the start for that. I'll look again after work.

So yeah, don't submit E1 >_>
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Kefiroth
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I double-checked your map, Dream. I also arrived at the finish with 1 red key remaining.
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Dreamwalker
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Olay. Can we split the tie-breaker into teamwork? Each person (Choco, Cody/Rob, Dream, Kefi, and Kirby) can each select 2 rows to look at all the possible starting squares in and report the maximum score for each square as either:

(A) Score is less than 4 or path cannot even be completed.
(B) Score is betwren 4 and 8. Please state the number.
(C) Score is more than 8 and there's probably not a point in calculating beyond that.

Or is that too much work for a tie-breaker or too late to be starting this?
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ROBANN_88
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Dreamwalker
Nov 5 2014, 09:49 AM
Each person (Choco, Cody/Rob, Dream, Kefi, and Kirby)
you seem to have forgotten something
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Dreamwalker
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Well I put you and Cody in one spot because neither of you are participating in this challenge. Yeah I know you're eliminated and don't fault you if you don't want to help. I suppose I could also put slash Baruch, but he'd probably do everything wrong (by no fault of his own), so I left him out of the list.

Technically Radman still has access here too, I think, but I didn't put him in the list for obvious reasons. >_>

And Matt, Finrod, and Weezy aren't on the list for even more obvious reasons, including the fact that they haven't had access for ages. We'll still let them join in the Gemini victory celebration if a Gemini wins the game though.

You might ask how I know I'll even be in the Gemini victory celebration. Well, I'm claiming rights to host* it.

*Note that the celebration will likely just happen in the Epic Struggle post-game topic(s) and hence this celebration may not actually count as a thing in itself.
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ROBANN_88
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i'll help when somethign comes up that i'm good at.
scanning a map is not one of them
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Kirbymuncher
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Fairly certain A1 is best tiebreaker square at a cost of 6, J1 and J3 also give 6

Unless I'm missing something since I'm a bit sleepy atm
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Kirbymuncher
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Made a program to try and brute force it but it's even slower than I expected. Probably won't get any results out of it until past deadline.
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Choco
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I don't think I'll find the time to look for a good tiebreaker submission sorry
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Choco
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Kirbymuncher
Nov 5 2014, 02:34 PM
Made a program to try and brute force it but it's even slower than I expected. Probably won't get any results out of it until past deadline.
I briefly considered brute-forcing it and then laughed at myself when I remembered how awful my bruteforced Kendoku solver performed

also did you really just put 3 spaces after that period
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Kirbymuncher
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I dunno, my phone just randomly adds/subtracts spaces sometimes


Who's taking dream's route?
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Dreamwalker
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Choco if you're going to go offline now just submit my 81-scoring grid and maybe J3 (since that has the most options of travel probably? and hence has the greatest chance of our enemy somehow taking a bad path and getting worse than 6?)
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Kirbymuncher
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The J tiebreaker entries are not actually correct, I wrote the wrong thing down

Gimme a second to fix or just do a1
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Kirbymuncher
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Yeah I dunno what I was thinking with those J ones

Use A1 for tiebreaker
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