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Why aren't the British middle-classes staging a revolution?; "Why aren't the middle-classes more angry about stories such as the Phones4U collapse, and what will it take to tip us over"
Topic Started: Sep 26 2014, 02:38 PM (389 Views)
jeevesnwooster
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11109845/Why-arent-the-British-middle-classes-staging-a-revolution.html

I thought this article was fairly unusual for the Torygraph, but interesting to say the least

Quote:
 
The point is, along with the people who sold phones who are now unemployed, some of Phones4U’s employees, were officer class, just like you. Their jobs too have gone. It’s just another example of people who build and make nothing gutting businesses, privatising the profits and socialising the losses. Slowly, it makes us all poorer. So, yes, this is a lifestyle issue inasmuch as it’s about ensuring that you and your children will be able to worry about things like Farrow & Ball Paint colours, rather than getting another credit card to pay the rent.


"We're all in it together" takes on a whole new meaning, of course anything regarding the middle-classes and their sense of self-entitlement ("were officer class, just like you") is usually a bit irritating but the guy's bang on the mark here mostly
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Affa
Sep 27 2014, 11:30 PM
Major Sinic
Sep 27 2014, 10:40 PM
jeevesnwooster
Sep 27 2014, 09:47 PM
Major Sinic
Sep 27 2014, 07:07 PM
My Conservative philosophy which is consistant does not mean that I am blindly in support of the Coalition Government or the Tory Party;



"That said I would vote for the Devil himself to save the UK from the perils of a Labour Government."

That tells us plenty, it tells us how biased you for a start. I wouldn't vote for any of the big parties, I presume you voted Tory in 2010 to do exactly what you just described.

Being blinkered isn't related to your age,


If I read you correctly you are a young person with little life experience or maturity to draw on and, without wishing to be offensive, your views reflect the arrogance of the idealist without the reality and humility of the pragmatist which tends to come with age.

As someone very inclined towards pragmatism, and often willing to amend my value system in order to accept the realistic rather than the idealistic outcome, I have a question for you.

'what is pragmatic about the 'richest 1% owning more than the poorest 55% of the nation's wealth'?
A trend, 'money to money', that continues and the wealth gap gets wider and wider.
It must occur to some that this trend must be reversed or we end up with half the population on benefits, working or not. Consumerism dies, work disappears. It has to stop!
Pragmatism tells me that, or else it becomes like Brazil here.

Affa, sometimes you infuriate me with your deliberate obfuscation and at others with your disingenuity and an air of superiority and at still others I find I can't disagree with what you say. I don't for a moment believe that the present wealth imbalance between the very rich and the poor is desirable, healthy or justified, and neither does being a Tory, as in an honest moment you will agree, mean that one has to support the current economic status quo in its entirety, just as no one had to accept an exact selfsame imbalance during much of the last administrations tenure in office.

There will always be those who have more, earn more, create more than others because they have more luck, work ethic, acumen, vision, will to risk take or even privilege than others and I have no problem with the principle and inevitability behind this. But if you were to ask me to justify why the CEO of a FTSE 100 company might be paid £5m a year and a senior consultant in the NHS £150k, a semiliterate footballer £8m a year and a nurse £25k I wouldn't be able to, because like you I don't believe it is justifiable.
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Stan Still
Sep 27 2014, 08:09 AM
papasmurf
Sep 27 2014, 08:00 AM
RJD
Sep 27 2014, 07:39 AM
Is this a 1920s or 30s parody?
Not at all, still a common sight on many country estates.

Posted Image

That's four people taken when and where?, now tell me who they are?, what they do for a living and how rich they are, are they on their own land? or someone else's?

You do realize its in the Mail and right wing propaganda  ::)

This is almost certainly a contrived photograph in that I am fairly sure the chap on the left is a featured character actor. He at least is dressed for a bit of rough shooting whilst the chap on the right looks a bit down on his luck and might be a publican in his tweed sports jacket; certainly not dressed sensibly for any country sport. The two at the back are more correctly dressed for a day of stalking rather than rough or driven game. I suggest it might be a still from a second rate advert promoting perhaps a Korean whisky made from the finest Scottish hops.

That it is not what it is portrayed to be is further evidenced by the fact that it was originally posted by Papasmurf.

PS Less and less of us wear green wellies, much preferring the alternative of Dubarry and similar waterproofed leather boots.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 27 2014, 08:34 AM
Stan Still
Sep 27 2014, 08:30 AM


Your hatred and living in the past and seeing what you want to see has put you way beyond any help at all.

What hatred? What living in the past? (Seriously, you and others are reading things into my comments that are not there.)
For a start it was not me on the old forum who stated country estate workers were forced to take part in the Countryside Alliance pro-fox hunting demos because I knew that was not the case.)
You convinced me with your posts down to you nobody else
Edited by Stan Still, Sep 28 2014, 08:29 AM.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Affa
Sep 27 2014, 11:30 PM

It must occur to some that this trend must be reversed or we end up with half the population on benefits, working or not.
That has been reached and passed. If it were possible to get everyone on out of work benefits into full time (40 hours a week) employment the benefits bill would go up not down because of in work benefits subsidising low pay.
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jeevesnwooster
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A lot of people are under-employed, not strictly chronically unemployed, moving between benefits, part-time and sometimes full-time temp jobs/ casual labour/0 hrs contracts and bits of cash-in-hand work
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Major Sinic
Sep 28 2014, 12:27 AM
Stan Still
Sep 27 2014, 08:09 AM
papasmurf
Sep 27 2014, 08:00 AM
RJD
Sep 27 2014, 07:39 AM
Is this a 1920s or 30s parody?
Not at all, still a common sight on many country estates.

Posted Image

That's four people taken when and where?, now tell me who they are?, what they do for a living and how rich they are, are they on their own land? or someone else's?

You do realize its in the Mail and right wing propaganda  ::)

This is almost certainly a contrived photograph in that I am fairly sure the chap on the left is a featured character actor. He at least is dressed for a bit of rough shooting whilst the chap on the right looks a bit down on his luck and might be a publican in his tweed sports jacket; certainly not dressed sensibly for any country sport. The two at the back are more correctly dressed for a day of stalking rather than rough or driven game. I suggest it might be a still from a second rate advert promoting perhaps a Korean whisky made from the finest Scottish hops.

That it is not what it is portrayed to be is further evidenced by the fact that it was originally posted by Papasmurf.

PS Less and less of us wear green wellies, much preferring the alternative of Dubarry and similar waterproofed leather boots.
Nice to see the two at the back wearing the sort of gear I don when I pop out across the fields with the Anschutz .22 under my arm, (minus the two way radios and silly hats) as a word of caution alcohol and firearms do not mix and Land Rovers are shit.
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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Major Sinic
Sep 28 2014, 12:27 AM
This is almost certainly a contrived photograph in that I am fairly sure the chap on the left is a featured character actor. He at least is dressed for a bit of rough shooting whilst the chap on the right looks a bit down on his luck and might be a publican in his tweed sports jacket; certainly not dressed sensibly for any country sport. The two at the back are more correctly dressed for a day of stalking rather than rough or driven game. I suggest it might be a still from a second rate advert promoting perhaps a Korean whisky made from the finest Scottish hops.

That it is not what it is portrayed to be is further evidenced by the fact that it was originally posted by Papasmurf.

PS Less and less of us wear green wellies, much preferring the alternative of Dubarry and similar waterproofed leather boots.
Seems you know less about Whisky than you do most other things.

The bottle in the image is a bottle of Glayva, a liqueur produced in Leith, Scotland by Whyte & Mackay.

Nothing to do with koreans.

All The Best
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Affa
Senior Member
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Major Sinic
Sep 28 2014, 12:27 AM
Stan Still
Sep 27 2014, 08:09 AM
papasmurf
Sep 27 2014, 08:00 AM
RJD
Sep 27 2014, 07:39 AM
Is this a 1920s or 30s parody?
Not at all, still a common sight on many country estates.

Posted Image

That's four people taken when and where?, now tell me who they are?, what they do for a living and how rich they are, are they on their own land? or someone else's?

You do realize its in the Mail and right wing propaganda  ::)

This is almost certainly a contrived photograph in that I am fairly sure the chap on the left is a featured character actor.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2247535/Game-hunting-A-blast-past-How-game-hunting-thriving-new-breed-master.html

Daily Mail December two years ago.

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Affa
Senior Member
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Major Sinic
Sep 28 2014, 12:14 AM
Affa
Sep 27 2014, 11:30 PM
Major Sinic
Sep 27 2014, 10:40 PM
jeevesnwooster
Sep 27 2014, 09:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep


If I read you correctly you are a young person with little life experience or maturity to draw on and, without wishing to be offensive, your views reflect the arrogance of the idealist without the reality and humility of the pragmatist which tends to come with age.

As someone very inclined towards pragmatism, and often willing to amend my value system in order to accept the realistic rather than the idealistic outcome, I have a question for you.

'what is pragmatic about the 'richest 1% owning more than the poorest 55% of the nation's wealth'?

Affa, sometimes you infuriate me with your deliberate obfuscation and at others with your disingenuity and an air of superiority and at still others I find I can't disagree with what you say.

There will always be those who have more, earn more, create more than others

Let me help you reconcile our differences.
First off, I tend towards not feeling compelled to reply to every topic, not even to all posts addressed towards me, unless I have something to say that hasn't been said - I post to add, not to repeat what others have posted. Further to that it is my intention to try to present a different perspective, to view things from a position none have yet ventured - it does help debate I think to have this wider picture.
What this means is that sometimes I will give an objective opinion that I personally do not strongly hold. but will do so to aid the debate (not exactly devils advocate).

I do not feel superior to others, in fact I am impressed with the quality of posters here, and if anything feel a little out of my depth on some subjects. I am no scholar. I've met many wiser people than I, some I've been in awe of. If I have one thing of which I do consider myself superior to most others in, is in my integrity. I value honesty above cleverness, and try always to be honest ......... by being honest one is less likely to be made to look disingenuous. So I need to know in what way you find me disingenuous?




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Rich
Senior Member
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" it is hard to tell the difference."

Best get some hard factual evidence then rather than propagandist material.
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Deleted User
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Pro Veritas
Sep 28 2014, 06:10 PM
Major Sinic
Sep 28 2014, 12:27 AM
This is almost certainly a contrived photograph in that I am fairly sure the chap on the left is a featured character actor. He at least is dressed for a bit of rough shooting whilst the chap on the right looks a bit down on his luck and might be a publican in his tweed sports jacket; certainly not dressed sensibly for any country sport. The two at the back are more correctly dressed for a day of stalking rather than rough or driven game. I suggest it might be a still from a second rate advert promoting perhaps a Korean whisky made from the finest Scottish hops.

That it is not what it is portrayed to be is further evidenced by the fact that it was originally posted by Papasmurf.

PS Less and less of us wear green wellies, much preferring the alternative of Dubarry and similar waterproofed leather boots.
Seems you know less about Whisky than you do most other things.

The bottle in the image is a bottle of Glayva, a liqueur produced in Leith, Scotland by Whyte & Mackay.

Nothing to do with koreans.

All The Best
Now I would have thought that a bright chap like you might have spotted a degree of mockery regarding the drink in the photo; seems not!
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jeevesnwooster
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Meanwhile, the lesser right-wing rags wish to drive society against each other, as usual

"Angela Epstein reported on how her family will struggle by losing child benefit in last week's Daily Mail: But many families would dream of earning £100k

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2229461/Were-middle-class-successful--poor-church-mice.html#ixzz3EirDEQD7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
"

Instead of pointing out genuinely poor middle-class people, the right-wing rags as always focus on the well off needing a bit of extra cash to tide them over, how typical.
Edited by jeevesnwooster, Sep 29 2014, 04:24 PM.
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