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The choice
Topic Started: Sep 28 2014, 07:36 AM (273 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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There is nothing callous or immoral about encouraging self-reliance. The desire to be responsible for yourself, for your own family and, by extension, your own community is the precise opposite of selfishness.


Quote:
 
For a party or a government to expect able-bodied, normally intelligent people to take on such responsibilities is to pay them the respect they are due: to assume that they are fully functioning, conscientious human beings. This is, in fact, how most people wish to see themselves – which is why the Government’s welfare reforms are so hugely popular. An ethical society relies on people rather than government power as the source of virtue.
Janet Daly

Does Joe Public really want to see Big Nanny brought down to size and become more responsible for choices, solutions and the implementation of such for himself, his family and his community? Or is Big Nanny Bossy Statism where Politicians decide what is the right thing to do, how we should behave (note that the always wish to engineer us to fit in with their concepts of normality) for which we pay high rates of income and consumption taxes and borrow to fund? Joe Public needs to decide as this is the devising line for the next Parliament.

Quote:
 
Voters know in their hearts that the UK has yet to really tackle its budgetary woes. The vast majority aren’t stupid – which is why Miliband wanted his deficit words out there, even if he lacked the guts to put them to fellow Labour delegates.
The Tory leadership, in contrast, has a willing party but lacks the courage to act. Is it any wonder the public is losing faith in mainstream politicians?
Liam Halligan

After all the tough talk For all the talk of austerity George Osborne has borrowed more in five years than Brown did in ten, so it is difficult to believe that he has the guts to tackle the most pressing problem of our time. Unfortunately there is no alternate (TINA) as Milliband will be shouted down by his Camp Followers if he dared to mention the word deficit or austerity or cuts, that is the real reason he left it out of his speech as these people only ever vote for more State spending and do not care where the money comes from. For me the only choice is which Party will offer to cut out the residual deficit during the next Parliament and seek to rebalance the economy away from consumption and more production, everything else is incidental.

Test: Anyone recall a Usual on this forum that has ever shown any interest in reducing the deficit? Of ever showing any interest or understanding on how wealth is created?



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papasmurf
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What are Janet Daly's and Liam Halligan's qualifications and experience. (I have never heard of either of them.)
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Stan Still
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RJD
Sep 28 2014, 07:36 AM
Quote:
 
There is nothing callous or immoral about encouraging self-reliance. The desire to be responsible for yourself, for your own family and, by extension, your own community is the precise opposite of selfishness.


Quote:
 
For a party or a government to expect able-bodied, normally intelligent people to take on such responsibilities is to pay them the respect they are due: to assume that they are fully functioning, conscientious human beings. This is, in fact, how most people wish to see themselves – which is why the Government’s welfare reforms are so hugely popular. An ethical society relies on people rather than government power as the source of virtue.
Janet Daly

Does Joe Public really want to see Big Nanny brought down to size and become more responsible for choices, solutions and the implementation of such for himself, his family and his community? Or is Big Nanny Bossy Statism where Politicians decide what is the right thing to do, how we should behave (note that the always wish to engineer us to fit in with their concepts of normality) for which we pay high rates of income and consumption taxes and borrow to fund? Joe Public needs to decide as this is the devising line for the next Parliament.

Quote:
 
Voters know in their hearts that the UK has yet to really tackle its budgetary woes. The vast majority aren’t stupid – which is why Miliband wanted his deficit words out there, even if he lacked the guts to put them to fellow Labour delegates.
The Tory leadership, in contrast, has a willing party but lacks the courage to act. Is it any wonder the public is losing faith in mainstream politicians?
Liam Halligan

After all the tough talk For all the talk of austerity George Osborne has borrowed more in five years than Brown did in ten, so it is difficult to believe that he has the guts to tackle the most pressing problem of our time. Unfortunately there is no alternate (TINA) as Milliband will be shouted down by his Camp Followers if he dared to mention the word deficit or austerity or cuts, that is the real reason he left it out of his speech as these people only ever vote for more State spending and do not care where the money comes from. For me the only choice is which Party will offer to cut out the residual deficit during the next Parliament and seek to rebalance the economy away from consumption and more production, everything else is incidental.

Test: Anyone recall a Usual on this forum that has ever shown any interest in reducing the deficit? Of ever showing any interest or understanding on how wealth is created?



It matters not who says it but the deficit has to be drastically cut and in a prefect world wiped out and our country in the black not in the red, only fools cannot see that is the only way we must go out of necessity, no matter how unpleasant it will be.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 08:17 AM
It matters not who says it but the deficit has to be drastically cut and in a prefect world wiped out and our country in the black not in the red, only fools cannot see that is the only way we must go out of necessity, no matter how unpleasant it will be.
It is the unpleasant for who, is the problem. Destituting the already poor and vulnerable is not despite the propaganda going to impact on the deficit at all.
taking a VERY hard line on offshored tax evasion by British residents would cut the government deficit.
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krugerman
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Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing

The Tories number one aim in life is to cut taxes, always has been, and probably always will be, and often at the expense of public services, communities and the vulnerable.

Whilst there is nothing wrong in reducing the tax burden for everyone, it should not be done at the expense of the public library, the local police station or those on low incomes, the sick or unemployed.

This morning we read in the newspapers that if elected, a new Tory government will take away Job Seekers Allowance from all young people who have been unemployed for six months or more.

The simple question is this: what if you simply cannot find a job Mr Cameron ?

Have you been to Hull or Middlesbrough, South Tyneside or Sunderland, where unemployment IS NOT falling, it continues to RISE.

Then there s the proposal to take away Housing Benefit from young people, no if s, no but s, no matter what your personal circumstances, no matter if you try really hard, under a new Tory government your on the street mate.

Cant you just hear the Bullingdon Club aristocrats laughing in your face



Edited by krugerman, Sep 28 2014, 09:11 AM.
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Steve K
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Always read beyond the headline Krugerman, you've been misinformed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29398907

Quote:
 
They would have to undertake tasks such as cleaning local parks to continue receiving income support, George Osborne told the Mail on Sunday.

I have no issue with that but I have every issue if this week the Tories endorse Teresa May's plan to encourage gathering of 'evidence' by torture and removing the HRA in order to do that.


Edited by Steve K, Sep 28 2014, 10:13 AM.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Sep 28 2014, 10:12 AM

I have no issue with that
I do because the people already doing those jobs will get the sack.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 10:17 AM
Steve K
Sep 28 2014, 10:12 AM

I have no issue with that
I do because the people already doing those jobs will get the sack.
Yes if that happens that would be wrong

But in my experience local parks could well do with a seriously enhanced level of cleaning and that was my presumption
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Tytoalba
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krugerman
Sep 28 2014, 09:10 AM
Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing

The Tories number one aim in life is to cut taxes, always has been, and probably always will be, and often at the expense of public services, communities and the vulnerable.

Whilst there is nothing wrong in reducing the tax burden for everyone, it should not be done at the expense of the public library, the local police station or those on low incomes, the sick or unemployed.

This morning we read in the newspapers that if elected, a new Tory government will take away Job Seekers Allowance from all young people who have been unemployed for six months or more.

The simple question is this: what if you simply cannot find a job Mr Cameron ?

Have you been to Hull or Middlesbrough, South Tyneside or Sunderland, where unemployment IS NOT falling, it continues to RISE.

Then there s the proposal to take away Housing Benefit from young people, no if s, no but s, no matter what your personal circumstances, no matter if you try really hard, under a new Tory government your on the street mate.

Cant you just hear the Bullingdon Club aristocrats laughing in your face



The public libraries, swimming pools and the Police are paid from thr rates. People do not want to pay higher rates, particularly as it is an unfair tax system.
It should be a precept on individuals tax based on income, meaning that all who work and use the services should pay for them. The Community charge was the fairer way.
Bring back the poll tax for a fairer system
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papasmurf
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Tytoalba
Sep 28 2014, 12:10 PM

Bring back the poll tax for a fairer system
Not Again. My wife and I's poll tax was around 2.5 times what we had been paying in rates, there was nothing fair about that.
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Cleaning up local parks...You would have to provide boots, clothing, possibly help with bus or train fares. They would have to be supervised and eventually the question would be raised that they were being exploited if the benefits did not match or exceed the minimum wage for the hours they worked. After all that they would not be motivated so I guess there would be very little litter picked up.
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 28 2014, 12:24 PM
Cleaning up local parks...You would have to provide boots, clothing, possibly help with bus or train fares. They would have to be supervised and eventually the question would be raised that they were being exploited if the benefits did not match or exceed the minimum wage for the hours they worked. After all that they would not be motivated so I guess there would be very little litter picked up.

Fine so very little benefits paid too.


papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 12:14 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 28 2014, 12:10 PM

Bring back the poll tax for a fairer system
Not Again. My wife and I's poll tax was around 2.5 times what we had been paying in rates, there was nothing fair about that.

!clp! See we can agree.

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Deleted User
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Steve K
Sep 28 2014, 12:35 PM
gansao
Sep 28 2014, 12:24 PM
Cleaning up local parks...You would have to provide boots, clothing, possibly help with bus or train fares. They would have to be supervised and eventually the question would be raised that they were being exploited if the benefits did not match or exceed the minimum wage for the hours they worked. After all that they would not be motivated so I guess there would be very little litter picked up.

Fine so very little benefits paid too.


papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 12:14 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 28 2014, 12:10 PM

Bring back the poll tax for a fairer system
Not Again. My wife and I's poll tax was around 2.5 times what we had been paying in rates, there was nothing fair about that.

!clp! See we can agree.



Same benefits but money spent on clothes, overseers, possibly transport and almost certainly very restricted hours worked with very little done. IMO it would probably be less efficient than hiring people full time. This is far more about appeasing some sections of the public than a real saving
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jeevesnwooster
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gansao
Sep 28 2014, 12:46 PM
Same benefits but money spent on clothes, overseers, possibly transport and almost certainly very restricted hours worked with very little done. IMO it would probably be less efficient than hiring people full time. This is far more about appeasing some sections of the public than a real saving
IE vote for me. Plus as papa said, the people already paid to do it would get the sack. Companies firing people to hire volunteer/unpaid labour has been highlighted many times over the last 4 years

PS: "The Choice" is a false dichotomy, a LOB
Edited by jeevesnwooster, Sep 28 2014, 01:15 PM.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 07:44 AM
What are Janet Daly's and Liam Halligan's qualifications and experience. (I have never heard of either of them.)
No doubt they have not heard of you and seemingly you are not qualified, but that does not stop you from having opinions and pontificating here.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 08:27 AM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 08:17 AM
It matters not who says it but the deficit has to be drastically cut and in a prefect world wiped out and our country in the black not in the red, only fools cannot see that is the only way we must go out of necessity, no matter how unpleasant it will be.
It is the unpleasant for who, is the problem. Destituting the already poor and vulnerable is not despite the propaganda going to impact on the deficit at all.
taking a VERY hard line on offshored tax evasion by British residents would cut the government deficit.
The poor have no money by definition therefore are not expected to pay for anything.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tytoalba
Sep 28 2014, 12:10 PM
krugerman
Sep 28 2014, 09:10 AM
Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing

The Tories number one aim in life is to cut taxes, always has been, and probably always will be, and often at the expense of public services, communities and the vulnerable.

Whilst there is nothing wrong in reducing the tax burden for everyone, it should not be done at the expense of the public library, the local police station or those on low incomes, the sick or unemployed.

This morning we read in the newspapers that if elected, a new Tory government will take away Job Seekers Allowance from all young people who have been unemployed for six months or more.

The simple question is this: what if you simply cannot find a job Mr Cameron ?

Have you been to Hull or Middlesbrough, South Tyneside or Sunderland, where unemployment IS NOT falling, it continues to RISE.

Then there s the proposal to take away Housing Benefit from young people, no if s, no but s, no matter what your personal circumstances, no matter if you try really hard, under a new Tory government your on the street mate.

Cant you just hear the Bullingdon Club aristocrats laughing in your face



The public libraries, swimming pools and the Police are paid from thr rates. People do not want to pay higher rates, particularly as it is an unfair tax system.
It should be a precept on individuals tax based on income, meaning that all who work and use the services should pay for them. The Community charge was the fairer way.
Bring back the poll tax for a fairer system
But it cannot be considered in isolation, it is more sensible, but the wealth redistribution effects of the current system will need some compensation elsewhere. I am against a plethora of means to redistribute such wealth as often this disguises the actual performance of the such organisations.
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Marconi
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My friend is a ground worker and clears parks who's job goes quiet in January and most of February. Would he be expected to do the same job for dole money as he does for a wage the rest of the year?
Edited by Marconi, Sep 28 2014, 04:46 PM.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 08:27 AM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 08:17 AM
It matters not who says it but the deficit has to be drastically cut and in a prefect world wiped out and our country in the black not in the red, only fools cannot see that is the only way we must go out of necessity, no matter how unpleasant it will be.
It is the unpleasant for who, is the problem. Destituting the already poor and vulnerable is not despite the propaganda going to impact on the deficit at all.
taking a VERY hard line on offshored tax evasion by British residents would cut the government deficit.
Like a broken record Tax more is the answer to everything, when income tax was over 70% it did not improve much if anything and you know it.

What is unpleasant is that millions get out of bed everyday to go to work to pay for many who will not do so and some have no intention do so, some get paid more to stay at home than many earn.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:20 PM
Like a broken record Tax more is the answer to everything,
I did not state tax more, merely collecting the evaded tax that should have been paid.
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Tigger
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RJD
Sep 28 2014, 07:36 AM


Test: Anyone recall a Usual on this forum that has ever shown any interest in reducing the deficit? Of ever showing any interest or understanding on how wealth is created?



Perhaps you should tell us?

Hint, it isn't about impoverishing the masses so the few can pretend that a system that works very well for them can carry on living.

And remember that Britain under the Tories has just posted the worst balance of payments deficit since 1989! :)
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jeevesnwooster
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Marconi
Sep 28 2014, 04:34 PM
My friend is a ground worker and clears parks who's job goes quiet in January and most of February. Would he be expected to do the same job for dole money as he does for a wage the rest of the year?
We all know the answer to this, some just refuse to believe it
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 05:22 PM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:20 PM
Like a broken record Tax more is the answer to everything,
I did not state tax more, merely collecting the evaded tax that should have been paid.
We have been though all that before and you did not understand the problems collecting what may be owed then so it would be a waste of time trying to educate on that score again.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:29 PM
We have been though all that before and you did not understand the problems collecting what may be owed then so it would be a waste of time trying to educate on that score again.
It is you who thinks there are problems. Other countries are recovering many billions of evaded tax with no problems at all since long jail terms have happened in a few cases.
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Lewis
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 05:32 PM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:29 PM
We have been though all that before and you did not understand the problems collecting what may be owed then so it would be a waste of time trying to educate on that score again.
It is you who thinks there are problems. Other countries are recovering many billions of evaded tax with no problems at all since long jail terms have happened in a few cases.
Yes if they went for those who have evaded their taxes with any vigour then this so-called pretence of a deficit could be paid down in no time!
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Lewis
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RJD
Sep 28 2014, 07:36 AM
Quote:
 
There is nothing callous or immoral about encouraging self-reliance. The desire to be responsible for yourself, for your own family and, by extension, your own community is the precise opposite of selfishness.


Quote:
 
For a party or a government to expect able-bodied, normally intelligent people to take on such responsibilities is to pay them the respect they are due: to assume that they are fully functioning, conscientious human beings. This is, in fact, how most people wish to see themselves – which is why the Government’s welfare reforms are so hugely popular. An ethical society relies on people rather than government power as the source of virtue.
Janet Daly

Does Joe Public really want to see Big Nanny brought down to size and become more responsible for choices, solutions and the implementation of such for himself, his family and his community? Or is Big Nanny Bossy Statism where Politicians decide what is the right thing to do, how we should behave (note that the always wish to engineer us to fit in with their concepts of normality) for which we pay high rates of income and consumption taxes and borrow to fund? Joe Public needs to decide as this is the devising line for the next Parliament.

Quote:
 
Voters know in their hearts that the UK has yet to really tackle its budgetary woes. The vast majority aren’t stupid – which is why Miliband wanted his deficit words out there, even if he lacked the guts to put them to fellow Labour delegates.
The Tory leadership, in contrast, has a willing party but lacks the courage to act. Is it any wonder the public is losing faith in mainstream politicians?
Liam Halligan

After all the tough talk For all the talk of austerity George Osborne has borrowed more in five years than Brown did in ten, so it is difficult to believe that he has the guts to tackle the most pressing problem of our time. Unfortunately there is no alternate (TINA) as Milliband will be shouted down by his Camp Followers if he dared to mention the word deficit or austerity or cuts, that is the real reason he left it out of his speech as these people only ever vote for more State spending and do not care where the money comes from. For me the only choice is which Party will offer to cut out the residual deficit during the next Parliament and seek to rebalance the economy away from consumption and more production, everything else is incidental.

Test: Anyone recall a Usual on this forum that has ever shown any interest in reducing the deficit? Of ever showing any interest or understanding on how wealth is created?



Well you and yours don't. You should tell your leadership about it. Things are getting worse since your lot have messed up the country.
Edited by Lewis, Sep 28 2014, 06:17 PM.
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jeevesnwooster
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^ Scrap our gross amounts of spending on defence, scrap all unnecessary contracts with 'welfare to work organisations' like A4E, scrap tax havens and force those who are using any other tax avoidance schemes to pay up. Fleece wealthy immigrants who commit organised crime for all they're worth. Fleece indigenous wealthy organised criminals for all they're worth, take absolutely everything off of them for the damage they've done and continue to do to society. Scrap our subsidies to other nations, except for those such as Sierra Leone. That'd probably be the deficit finished off
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Affa
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"Let them eat cake"!

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Rich
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papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 07:44 AM
What are Janet Daly's and Liam Halligan's qualifications and experience. (I have never heard of either of them.)


I doubt very much if they have ever heard of you, but as you are too fxxxxxg tight to buy a newspaper of any hue then you must rely on the people of this forum that do so.
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papasmurf
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Rich
Sep 29 2014, 02:35 AM


I doubt very much if they have ever heard of you, but as you are too fxxxxxg tight to buy a newspaper of any hue then you must rely on the people of this forum that do so.
It is not case of being tight it is a case of news couple with paper is an Oxymoron. I decided not to buy propaganda over three decades ago.
You will not learn the truth by reading a newspaper, especially when it comes to politics.
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Stan Still
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Lewis
Sep 28 2014, 06:14 PM
papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 05:32 PM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:29 PM
We have been though all that before and you did not understand the problems collecting what may be owed then so it would be a waste of time trying to educate on that score again.
It is you who thinks there are problems. Other countries are recovering many billions of evaded tax with no problems at all since long jail terms have happened in a few cases.
Yes if they went for those who have evaded their taxes with any vigour then this so-called pretence of a deficit could be paid down in no time!
I have no problem with them going after tax evaders at all in fact I encourage it, the problem is even if they can find the money and get it back eventually that does not mean that stops the welfare bill spiralling out of control and unaffordable.

It is estimated that the NHS alone will need an extra 30 billion in 6 years time just to keep functioning, do you think that they can find enough tax payers each year and every year to pay that part of our welfare bill.

A major way to help reduce the welfare bill is the benefit part getting the fit and able back into work as quick as possible not sitting at home festering whilst loosing any work place skills they may have had, or learning new ones to help themselves, there are some who have no work skills at all, never worked.

The stark reality is we have no choice but to reduce public spending we cannot afford to keep on ignoring that major problem t will not go away and eventually it is highly likely the welfare state will collapse no matter how much you tax the workers.

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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 29 2014, 05:49 AM
Rich
Sep 29 2014, 02:35 AM


I doubt very much if they have ever heard of you, but as you are too fxxxxxg tight to buy a newspaper of any hue then you must rely on the people of this forum that do so.
It is not case of being tight it is a case of news couple with paper is an Oxymoron. I decided not to buy propaganda over three decades ago.
You will not learn the truth by reading a newspaper, especially when it comes to politics.
I doubt that you would recognise reality even if it bit you on the arse and introduced itself
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:05 AM
I doubt that you would recognise reality even if it bit you on the arse and introduced itself
If you and others are forming your opinions from what you read in newspapers owned by media barons with agendas you will never know what reality is.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 29 2014, 06:09 AM
Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:05 AM
I doubt that you would recognise reality even if it bit you on the arse and introduced itself
If you and others are forming your opinions from what you read in newspapers owned by media barons with agendas you will never know what reality is.
The reality is that the majority of people in the UK can and do think for themselves something you will never understand or accept.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:23 AM
The reality is that the majority of people in the UK can and do think for themselves something you will never understand or accept.
That is not evident on this forum. Several contributors very obviously fall for newspaper propaganda hook line and sinker by using newspaper links as references to back up their point of view.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 29 2014, 06:27 AM
Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:23 AM
The reality is that the majority of people in the UK can and do think for themselves something you will never understand or accept.
That is not evident on this forum. Several contributors very obviously fall for newspaper propaganda hook line and sinker by using newspaper links as references to back up their point of view.
The reality is they may not agree with you, you have a track record of shooting the messenger if you do not agree like or wish the message would go away, an easy cop out and lazy way than actually addressing the message.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 07:08 AM
The reality is they may not agree with you, you have a track record of shooting the messenger if you do not agree like or wish the message would go away, an easy cop out and lazy way than actually addressing the message.
I only shoot the messenger when the provide references that have no credibility. (As in links to newspaper articles.)
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Lewis
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Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:02 AM
Lewis
Sep 28 2014, 06:14 PM
papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 05:32 PM
Stan Still
Sep 28 2014, 05:29 PM
We have been though all that before and you did not understand the problems collecting what may be owed then so it would be a waste of time trying to educate on that score again.
It is you who thinks there are problems. Other countries are recovering many billions of evaded tax with no problems at all since long jail terms have happened in a few cases.
Yes if they went for those who have evaded their taxes with any vigour then this so-called pretence of a deficit could be paid down in no time!
I have no problem with them going after tax evaders at all in fact I encourage it, the problem is even if they can find the money and get it back eventually that does not mean that stops the welfare bill spiralling out of control and unaffordable.

It is estimated that the NHS alone will need an extra 30 billion in 6 years time just to keep functioning, do you think that they can find enough tax payers each year and every year to pay that part of our welfare bill.

A major way to help reduce the welfare bill is the benefit part getting the fit and able back into work as quick as possible not sitting at home festering whilst loosing any work place skills they may have had, or learning new ones to help themselves, there are some who have no work skills at all, never worked.

The stark reality is we have no choice but to reduce public spending we cannot afford to keep on ignoring that major problem t will not go away and eventually it is highly likely the welfare state will collapse no matter how much you tax the workers.

Wrong yet again. The overwhelming majority of the benefits bill is actually paid to those in work. The only way to cut that would be to pay them better.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Sep 29 2014, 07:14 AM
Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 07:08 AM
The reality is they may not agree with you, you have a track record of shooting the messenger if you do not agree like or wish the message would go away, an easy cop out and lazy way than actually addressing the message.
I only shoot the messenger when the provide references that have no credibility. (As in links to newspaper articles.)
And your credibility to judge is zero with me you have convinced me of that not the press !jk!
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Stan Still
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Lewis
Sep 29 2014, 07:14 AM
Stan Still
Sep 29 2014, 06:02 AM
Lewis
Sep 28 2014, 06:14 PM
papasmurf
Sep 28 2014, 05:32 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Yes if they went for those who have evaded their taxes with any vigour then this so-called pretence of a deficit could be paid down in no time!
I have no problem with them going after tax evaders at all in fact I encourage it, the problem is even if they can find the money and get it back eventually that does not mean that stops the welfare bill spiralling out of control and unaffordable.

It is estimated that the NHS alone will need an extra 30 billion in 6 years time just to keep functioning, do you think that they can find enough tax payers each year and every year to pay that part of our welfare bill.

A major way to help reduce the welfare bill is the benefit part getting the fit and able back into work as quick as possible not sitting at home festering whilst loosing any work place skills they may have had, or learning new ones to help themselves, there are some who have no work skills at all, never worked.

The stark reality is we have no choice but to reduce public spending we cannot afford to keep on ignoring that major problem t will not go away and eventually it is highly likely the welfare state will collapse no matter how much you tax the workers.

Wrong yet again. The overwhelming majority of the benefits bill is actually paid to those in work. The only way to cut that would be to pay them better.
The more people in work and paying their way is the solution and the money they pay in spent more wisely, even those who work that still need some benefits due to not earning enough help reduce the cost of the welfare bill.

High wages mean inflation goes up, that effects everyone no matter how much or little they earn
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