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| Conservative party conference. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 30 2014, 11:39 PM (324 Views) | |
| Rich | Sep 30 2014, 11:39 PM Post #1 |
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Senior Member
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Nothing much has inspired me to make a comment until today, Boris appeared and the whole atmosphered changed within minutes, he had everyone hanging on his every word wondering what was coming next, I think he is a very clever orator who likes to come across as bumbling but in fact can be very acerbic and to the point gets his message across in a way that is not forgotten. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKpoQx7j75Q |
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| C-too | Sep 30 2014, 11:50 PM Post #2 |
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Honourable Member
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Yes, a natural comedian, if he fails as a politician he can always go on the stage. IMO people should not be fooled by his jovial exterior, even though he is funny he is still a right wing Tory. Incidentally I enjoyed his performance.
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 1 2014, 12:02 AM Post #3 |
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҈
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Jovial but absolutely, and I mean absolutely ruthless. Still, better to focus on the jovial aspects of a politician's personality rather than the negative ones, agreed? |
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| Heinrich | Oct 1 2014, 12:25 AM Post #4 |
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Regular Guy
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Boris Johnson is very funny, even clownlike. Although from a recent foreign immigrant family, he acts very much like the English toff. He would be a great laugh to have as a Tory prime minister. He is what the English consider born to lead and they will follow. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 1 2014, 01:27 AM Post #5 |
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҈
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Sadly you are right, we are doomed |
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| Rich | Oct 1 2014, 01:58 AM Post #6 |
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That is precisely the attitude that we do not need..............think positive. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 1 2014, 02:04 AM Post #7 |
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Yes, let's simplify it all and have a laugh, after all no point taking any of it too seriously. It's all fun and games eh? |
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| papasmurf | Oct 1 2014, 05:02 AM Post #8 |
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I have refrained from comment because I am waiting for an analysis of the lies told by Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith. In the former case Osborne stated no disability benefit will be frozen, which is a lie because ESA Work Related Activity Group benefit would be frozen. In the latter case Iain Duncan Smith stated Universal Credit will be rolled out nationally neglecting to mention only for single claimants. He also forgot to mention the one million people waiting for a year for ESA/PIP decisions which is causing considerable hardship worry and stress to the claimants. |
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| RJD | Oct 1 2014, 07:18 AM Post #9 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Did he mention that the cost of welfare has actually increased under this Gov.? Did he mention that in comparative terms those living from the generosity of the State have been protected to a greater extent than those exposed to the chill winds in the private sector? Time to stop the whinging and show some gratitude. I find it appalling that those that are net beneficiaries, that make zero or little pecuniary contribution to our society, seek to grab the headlines and pretend that they alone are shouldering the burden when it is untrue. The truth is that the UK is a very generous country towards those it determines are in need, unfortunately we have bred an underclass who should not be considered to be part of such a group as they are fit and able to contribute and they are not entitled. Anyone who thinks that the Agents of the State will provide a first class delivery service on almost anything have not learned the lessons of the last 50 years. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 1 2014, 07:50 AM Post #10 |
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RJD, gratitude? You HAVE to be joking. I am afraid over one million people needing food banks, a half of them directly related to benefit cuts, sanctions, and delays, one million people having to wait a year for the DWP to come to a decision about their ESA/PIP claims, (That is causing serious hardship,) the DWP delaying the release of numerous datasets which would show that Iain Duncan Smith is completely incompetent. I am not grateful I am very (expletive deleted ) angry at the severe hardship and deaths caused by deliberate Tory policies aimed at the vulnerable, long term sick and disabled, and the complete and utter incompetence of Iain Duncan Smith. |
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 1 2014, 07:53 AM Post #11 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Boris is nothing more than a crafty c***. A ruthless killer wrapped up in a buffon's clothing. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit! |
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| papasmurf | Oct 1 2014, 08:00 AM Post #12 |
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Quite, Boris is a dangerous man, probably the only current politician with the same level of intellect as Enoch Powell. |
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| krugerman | Oct 1 2014, 08:29 AM Post #13 |
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Apparently Mr Cameron is to promise in his speech that spending on the NHS will not be cut, he now knows that this is a very hot political potato, he knows that Labour have got him on the run over the NHS. But he has a problem The last four years have seen the lowest sustained investment in the NHS in its entire history, at best the Tories could "claim" they have increased NHS spending by a whopping, magnificent sum of 0.1% - just about the lowest figure you could get away with. But there s another problem Every single opinion poll shows that an overwhelming majority of the British public do not want private health providers in the NHS, it seems that on the NHS Mr Cameron has got an uphill struggle, and it s not only Labour who are breathing down his neck, every professional body within the NHS is at war with this government. http://nhap.org/ National Health Action Party |
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| Steve K | Oct 1 2014, 09:13 AM Post #14 |
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Once and future cynic
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Boris is the Conservatives' John Prescott. Entertaining, clever, underestimate at your peril and trusted at your even greater peril. |
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| Heinrich | Oct 1 2014, 10:24 AM Post #15 |
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Philosophically, the Tories and New Labour are committed to creating opportunities for middle class entrepreneurs to assume all state responsibilities except those that cannot be done by private enterprise, such as the military. Since England is a two-party state, Tweedledum and Tweedledee is the only choice in town. In exchange for a few seats at Cabinet, the Liberal Democrats will prop up either. Almost half the Scots wanted out but were defeated in the referendum and the Welsh have no spine. North Ireland is a sectarian backwater. What a hopeless mess. |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 1 2014, 10:33 AM Post #16 |
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A very persuasive anf entertaining performance, well prepared, but not persuasive enough for those on the left of politics. For them nothing will be right except their own point of view. Not for them a pragmatic or objective opinion based on reality or fact. |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 1 2014, 10:34 AM Post #17 |
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Yes think Conservative
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 1 2014, 10:43 AM Post #18 |
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Upstanding Member
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Well of course it has. If government, any government, presides of a prolonged period with an excessive influx of cheap labour, a contraction in the number of real jobs, stagnant wages, and increasing living costs it is inevitable that welfare spending will go up. All this shows is that the Tories still have no clue about how to change things; which is alarming because everyone else seems to have. 1) Reverse current immigration trends. 2) Control living cost increases. 3) Increase NMW. 4) Cut corporate welfare. This will: a) Decrease welfare dependency. b) Increase tax revenues. c) Decrease inflation. d) Prevent another housing bubble caused financial crisis. All The Best |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 1 2014, 10:57 AM Post #19 |
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If doing what needs to be done and dealing with the realities of our times is being ruthless and leads to an improvement in the economy of our country and deals with pressing problems that needs to be addressed then lets ihave a bit more of it. Tell the people the truth and what you intend to do and why and they will respond. Without the national debt being paid off which costs 70 millions a year just to service it, we cannot go forward with any certainty. The objectors seem to want to increase it to the point where it will never be paid, and cost even more to service. Where's the sence in that? A reminder when comparing Boris with Churchill. "I say to the House as I said to ministers who have joined this government, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many months of struggle and suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs - Victory in spite of all terrors - Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." |
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| Steve K | Oct 1 2014, 11:04 AM Post #20 |
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Once and future cynic
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that ^ would be true if unemployment had gone up under this government - it hasn't, very much the opposite ![]() or that average wages had collapsed with zeroes hours contracts etc - they haven't ![]() Welfare may have gone up but the truth is by bugger all and that due to indexing, the Tories wished to slash it, Labour wished to let it run away. In the end a score draw resuted |
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| C-too | Oct 1 2014, 11:16 AM Post #21 |
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Obviously comedy masquerading as reality and fact is enough to fool some people. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 1 2014, 11:22 AM Post #22 |
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Unemployment has dropped - depending on if you believe that the figures are genuine. Underemployment has soared - and underemployment increases welfare by more than unemployment. All The Best |
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| C-too | Oct 1 2014, 11:26 AM Post #23 |
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According to the BBC unemployment is down to 2.08 million. ---- (from a high of 2.7m) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28768552 |
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| papasmurf | Oct 1 2014, 11:35 AM Post #24 |
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Actually New Labour were very harsh on benefit claimants, something they kept very quiet about and the Tories don't mention (which is something of a puzzle.) This latter day Wansee conference was on New Labours watch:- http://www.midmoors.co.uk/Unum/unum_in_uk.pdf New Labour, the market state, and the end of welfare Jonathan Rutherford Jonathan Rutherford looks at the connections between government and the insurance business in their joint project to reduce eligibility for sickness benefits. 38 In November 2001 a conference assembled at Woodstock, near Oxford. Its subject was ‘Malingering and Illness Deception’. The topic was a familiar one to the insurance industry, but it was now becoming a major political issue as New Labour committed itself to reducing the 2.6 million who were claiming Incapacity Benefit (IB). Amongst the 39 participants was Malcolm Wicks, then Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Work, and Mansel Aylward, his Chief Medical Officer at the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP). Fraud - which amounts to less than 0.4 per cent of IB claims - was not the issue. The experts and academics present were the theorists and ideologues of welfare to work.What linked many of them together, including Aylward, was their association with the giant US income protection company UnumProvident, represented at the conference by John LoCascio. The goal was the transformation of the welfare system. The cultural meaning of illness would be redefined; growing numbers of claimants would be declared capable of work and ‘motivated’ into jobs. A new work ethic would transform IB recipients into entrepreneurs helping themselves out of poverty and into self-reliance. Five years later these goals would take a tangible form in New Labour’s 2006 Welfare Reform Bill. Between 1979 and 2005 the numbers of working age individuals claiming IB increased from 0.7m to 2.7m. In 1995, 21 per cent were recorded as having a mental health problem; by 2005 the proportion had risen to 39 per cent, or just under 1 million people. The 2000 Psychiatric Morbidity Survey identified one in six adults as suffering from a mental health problem: of these only 9 per cent were receiving some form of talking therapy. The Health and Safety Executive estimate that 10 million working days are lost each year due to stress, depression and anxiety, the biggest loss occurring in what was once the heartland of New Labour’s electoral support, the professional occupations and the public sector. Despite these statistics, Britain has one of the highest work participation rates of OECD countries; while benefit levels are amongst the lowest in Western Europe and benefit claims are on a par with other countries. The system is not in crisis, and this is not the motivation for the proposed changes. New Labour’s politics of welfare reform has subordinated concern for the sick and disabled to the creation of a new kind of market state: claimants will become customers exercising their free rational choice, government serviceswill be outsourced to the private sector, and the welfare system will become anew source of revenue, profitability and economic growth. |
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| C-too | Oct 1 2014, 11:40 AM Post #25 |
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I suspect, though I don't know, that the rise in the average wage is false. Whether or not, a Tory MP on TV yesterday morning accepted the fact that the low paid are £300 a year worse off than in 2008. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 1 2014, 11:51 AM Post #26 |
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The problem with increasing the NMW is that some employers won't be able to afford it and if they go under all of their employees lose their jobs and are then welfare dependant. There really are no simple solutions imo. |
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| C-too | Oct 1 2014, 12:12 PM Post #27 |
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You may be right, but it is the same argument that was used to fight against the introduction of the NMW in the first place. It proved not to be the case then. Edited by C-too, Oct 1 2014, 12:12 PM.
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| somersetli | Oct 1 2014, 12:18 PM Post #28 |
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somersetli
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I can never understand why people watch these annual charades they call party conferences. They are just a lot of hot air about things that none of them have any intention of putting into practice. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 1 2014, 12:21 PM Post #29 |
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To see how many lies get told and what gets conveniently left out, and to see the difference between the conference and the reporting of it. |
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| Affa | Oct 1 2014, 12:45 PM Post #30 |
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A member of the Doom & Gloom party advising to think positively ...... Boris is not the only comic character, |
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| Affa | Oct 1 2014, 12:48 PM Post #31 |
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A member of the Doom & Gloom party advising to think positively ...... Boris is not the only comic character, |
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| Stan Still | Oct 1 2014, 05:24 PM Post #32 |
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I agree, he has more charisma than the two Ed's bookends put together. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 1 2014, 05:26 PM Post #33 |
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True there are no simple answers to any of our problems |
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| somersetli | Oct 1 2014, 06:05 PM Post #34 |
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somersetli
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And when you have seen all that.............what then? |
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| RJD | Oct 1 2014, 06:13 PM Post #35 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Not true, Labour have twice cut the NHS budget and are the only ones ever to have done so. Check your facts before pontificating. |
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| RJD | Oct 1 2014, 06:16 PM Post #36 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Try absolutes rather than differences. The absolute number of people in paid employment is now at a record high. |
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| RJD | Oct 1 2014, 06:19 PM Post #37 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Labour set up The Low Wage Commission and they should be allowed to do their job. If a future Labour Gov. dictates the increases then best they either abolish the Commission as being a waste of time or the members resign. Last time round the LWC decided on balance to not increase the NMW to the levels suggested by the likes of Osborne as they feared it would kill jobs. There has to be a balance and in the end jobs must be paramount as they are far the best social salve. |
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| Affa | Oct 1 2014, 06:21 PM Post #38 |
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The bit that got my attention was "I will not take no". His King Canute moment of the day. |
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| RJD | Oct 1 2014, 06:23 PM Post #39 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I have far too much to do and little time left to bother with such stage managed political shenanigans. One can read a synopsis in the news the next day or at the weekend if interested. The only fact of real interest too me is that the Tories have committed to continue with the much overdue cuts in public spending. |
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| Lewis | Oct 1 2014, 06:26 PM Post #40 |
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What about Scammeron's fait accompli with the massive cuts in taxation? As ever it isn't all it seems! The personal allowance is set to rise to £10,500 in April 2015. After that, on the basis of existing government policy of uprating the threshold in line with Consumer Price Index (CPI) inflation, it would reach around £11,620 by April 2020. Scammer's said that the threshold will increase to £12,000 by 2010. So basic rate taxpayers will only save an extra £480 per year or £9.20 per week. The higher rate threshold is due to increase to £42,285 next April. After that, if it increased in line with inflation it would reach around £46,920 by April 2020. This Scammer's states will increase to £50,000. These do a lot better, by saving £1,313 proving the incompetents benefit higher paid workers than poorer ones as per usual. |
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