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| Forked tongue? | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 2 2014, 07:14 AM (3,877 Views) | |
| RJD | Oct 2 2014, 07:14 AM Post #1 |
Prudence and Thrift
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Well considered the claims made in the lefty Press, bloggers and here one would think he has not a snowball in Hell's chance of achieving that objective. We will see if he meets his milestone, but he is correct in one claim and that is no future Gov. is going to unpick this system and as a consequence he will be able to claim he inflicted the reform welcomed by the vast majority, the next step for a new Gov. must be to make further inroads against those barriers to making work always a first choice. |
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| Affa | Nov 8 2014, 03:24 PM Post #361 |
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Senior Member
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That research will get buried, delayed, censored, if the government can manage it ---- and they likely can! and this 'Your request timed out. Please retry the request.' is annoying ......... an alteration to the system? |
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| RJD | Nov 8 2014, 03:40 PM Post #362 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You make the lazy interpretation that "sanctioning" means grinding noses into the dust. |
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| RJD | Nov 8 2014, 03:42 PM Post #363 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I accept your correction, now time for you to recognise that the said lifting was based on Pence. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 8 2014, 03:46 PM Post #364 |
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Senior Member
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It means people in large numbers being left with no money to buy food. |
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| RJD | Nov 8 2014, 03:53 PM Post #365 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I do not believe that is the Oxford English Dictionary description just your emotional interpretation. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 8 2014, 03:55 PM Post #366 |
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Senior Member
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Actually RJD it is food bank user data. |
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| RJD | Nov 8 2014, 03:57 PM Post #367 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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So not the Oxford the, not even a Lexicon of any form. Thought as much. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 8 2014, 03:59 PM Post #368 |
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Which meaning RJD? http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sanction |
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| jaguar | Nov 8 2014, 11:05 PM Post #369 |
Regular Member
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But can still find the money for cigarettes and a couple of pints at their local. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 8 2014, 11:14 PM Post #370 |
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Senior Member
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You are Iain Duncan Smith and I claim my £5. Either you have not paid for beer and cigarettes in a pub recently or you have no idea how little or on some cases no money benefit sanctions are leaving people with. (Frankly with the ever lengthening list of deaths attributable to benefit sanctions, idiot comments like your are offensive.) |
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| Tigger | Nov 8 2014, 11:15 PM Post #371 |
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Senior Member
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And trainers, pizza's and the bookies! Mail on Sunday in the morning? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 8 2014, 11:19 PM Post #372 |
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Senior Member
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You are just as big an idiot as he is. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 8 2014, 11:21 PM Post #373 |
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Deleted User
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Worse than that, they live in million pound houses . Some of them are foreign too  |
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| Tigger | Nov 9 2014, 02:21 PM Post #374 |
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Senior Member
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Has the welfare state forcibly removed your sense of humour? 
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| papasmurf | Nov 9 2014, 02:30 PM Post #375 |
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Senior Member
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I fail to see humour in the number of deaths being caused as an emergent property of the "welfare reforms." |
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| Tigger | Nov 9 2014, 02:46 PM Post #376 |
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Senior Member
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I think I'll add the removal of your sarcasm detecting glands to the list............. |
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| Tigger | Nov 9 2014, 02:49 PM Post #377 |
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Senior Member
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Not only that they wreck our educshun system, my eight year old came home from school one day speaking French!  And a smattering of Spanish!
Edited by Tigger, Nov 9 2014, 02:50 PM.
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| papasmurf | Nov 9 2014, 02:49 PM Post #378 |
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What sarcasm? (Given the numbers of rabid right wingers on the forum any sarcasm is impossible to detect.) |
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| Tigger | Nov 9 2014, 02:51 PM Post #379 |
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Senior Member
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Oh never mind!
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| jaguar | Nov 9 2014, 04:59 PM Post #380 |
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Regular Member
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Maybe if you were to get out more, you may see life as it really is, of course I pay for my own beer, people on benefits can't afford to treat me. Where is the link to the ever lengthening list of deaths attributable to benefit sanctions? Next you will be telling me there were no deaths when Labour were in power. Stating I have no idea how little or on some cases no money benefit sanctions are leaving people with, shows your ignorance, Because I am now retired, I help out in my local Community Centre (for no pay I might add) and see life a little bit better than sitting behind a laptop all day surfing the net. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 9 2014, 05:13 PM Post #381 |
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I have posted two links related to benefits sanctions. The Work and Pensions Committee are not doing an investigation for the fun of it. |
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| HIGHWAY | Nov 9 2014, 05:32 PM Post #382 |
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Senior Member
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Politically spun links as usual no doubt |
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| papasmurf | Nov 9 2014, 05:34 PM Post #383 |
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Highway, if you cannot be bothered to read those links, I suggest not putting both feet in your gob out of ignorance. |
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| HIGHWAY | Nov 9 2014, 05:38 PM Post #384 |
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Senior Member
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Last link you put on was the oxford dictionary was that the one you were meaning |
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| jaguar | Nov 9 2014, 06:01 PM Post #385 |
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Regular Member
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Was one of those links refer to a person who had mental problems and which you conveniently left out that the person in question had attempted suicide before. The problem I have with your links, are that they never tell the full story, the reasons behind the cuts, ie. benefit fraud, false claims, mental problems etc.etc. As has been proven to you on several occasions, of which you refuse to acknowledge, suicide rates over the last couple of decades has not increased apart from an increase one year under Labour. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 9 2014, 06:13 PM Post #386 |
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No, it was a long list which was only a tiny amount of a now very long list. |
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| johnofgwent | Nov 9 2014, 06:50 PM Post #387 |
It .. It is GREEN !!
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Well ACTUALLY .... I spent a little while helping rolls-royce develop the engine manahement system for thr typhoon engine in 93, at the place where they built concorde's engines. I've got about ten years of radar development and a couple of years of developing the backup plant monitor and emergency control system that is right now ticking away every second at a power station near Dunbar. I've also worked for Barclays, Lloyds TSB and three months after I had a chat with the internet security boys at a private client offshoot of the bank of Ireland I was amused to note a tightening up of procedures had caused a certain rather stratospheric manager at that institution to resign after inappropriate material was located on their corporate laptop. Now, I claim no role in that at all, but when I heard the news bulletin of it i laughed so hard i nearly crashed the car However, what I came to say is that throughout the period from 1982 to 1997 and on occasions since I was solidly employed inthe very centre of those sterling institutions you refer top, and while as with every other aspect of life the majority of it was above board, when it came ot those indusatries, where they did go bad, a more corrupt bunch of scum i would not encounter in any of our banks not even barclays. Because while you are right, the financial input to such projects is a BIT more than even Alan Sugar could muster, the procurement executive are the most inept, incopmpetent, bungling bunch of cowboys i ever had the misfortune to have to stare disbelievingly at the contract produced by. Edited by johnofgwent, Nov 9 2014, 06:51 PM.
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| HIGHWAY | Nov 9 2014, 06:52 PM Post #388 |
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A ps link that has been proved wrong,wow who would have ever thought that |
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| Affa | Nov 10 2014, 12:52 AM Post #389 |
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Senior Member
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Isn't everything? However, why anyone would need a link to evidence that cutting the amounts for anyone on means tested benefits is certain to cause stress and likely increase hardship beats me - after all that is the stated purpose of cutting Welfare is it not "to make work pay"? A cynic would perhaps say "to reduce the bill, to spare tax payers money", but IDS doesn't say that. It's about getting people off benefits and into work ......... if only the jobs these are declared fit for were there. Edited by Affa, Nov 10 2014, 12:53 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 10 2014, 12:45 PM Post #390 |
Honourable Member
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UK suicide rates given in 5 year chunks show that during the periods 1980/85 to 2009 suicide rates were higher under Tory governments except for one period when it was 0.1% lower than the highest under Labour. The highest suicide rates took place in the 1950 to 1960 period. |
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| Affa | Nov 10 2014, 01:08 PM Post #391 |
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Senior Member
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What was so bad about the fifties, I wonder? Was it Elvis driving people to end it? Got it ..... Heartbreak Hotel. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 10 2014, 01:14 PM Post #392 |
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Senior Member
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It is not the last couple of decades that are the issue. It will be the suicide rates from when the massive increase in benefits sanctions started that will show what has happened. Unfortunately due to a several year lag in the publication of suicide rates, they won't be published for some time yet. |
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| C-too | Nov 10 2014, 03:24 PM Post #393 |
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Honourable Member
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That was literally music to my ears back then. 
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| jaguar | Nov 10 2014, 05:02 PM Post #394 |
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Regular Member
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But you have been forever claiming the ever lengthening list of deaths attributable to benefit sanctions, now you are are saying Unfortunately due to a several year lag in the publication of suicide rates, they won't be published for some time yet. MAKE YOU MIND UP. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 10 2014, 05:07 PM Post #395 |
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Suicides are just a few of the deaths attributable to welfare reform. |
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| RJD | Nov 10 2014, 05:17 PM Post #396 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I think the truth is that many on benefits find other sources of occasional income, however, those that do not must live on a very tight budget. There has been a number of programs on TV over the last year or so, I tend to avoid them, but those few I have seen the camera always stays in focus on the tins of beer, fags and state of art mobile phones on display. The truth is that the cost of food is not the issue, well not the main one(s), it is the cost of housing, heating and transportation. As we have seen the cost of food is in decline and a sensible nutritious diet is actually not that expensive. But Food Banks are used as a slogan to claim economic and social failure, a stick to beat Politicians with, especially those from the other tribe, conveniently forgetting that their own applaud the reforms. Funny old World. |
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| jaguar | Nov 10 2014, 05:18 PM Post #397 |
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Regular Member
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Now it's a FEW, it was the ever lengthening list a moment ago. MAKE YOUR MIND UP. |
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| RJD | Nov 10 2014, 05:19 PM Post #398 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Well you have about six months to tally up the 600,000 you proclaimed would be dead of starvation or hyperthermia littering our streets. Still waiting for the first six, then asking for sight of the next 60 etc. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 10 2014, 05:26 PM Post #399 |
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Senior Member
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RJD, you really do need to keep up, the number went past 10500 three years ago, and that is just for the Work Capability Assessment. The large number of "disappeared," from the statistics has become obvious, and the DWP has run out of excuses for not publishing them. MP Debbie Abrahams has revealed that Oxford academics will report next month on what has happened to half a million jobseekers allowance (JSA) claimants who were sanctioned and subsequently disappeared from official employment statistics. The Oxford University study led by Professor David Stuckler and Dr. Rachel Loopstra, is in the process of analysing what has happened to the 4.5 million people who have been sanctioned under the Coalition government's sanctioning regime. Their research will be published in full later this month for full peer review. According to Abrahams: “Since the government’s regulations came into effect in October 2012 about half of all sanction decisions have led to people on JSA having their social security payments cut for a least 4 weeks, affecting over 2 million people. “Of those sanctioned, one in four leave JSA, and their preliminary statistical analysis is revealing that most of those who leave do so for reasons other than employment.” The research suggests more than 500,000 Job Seekers Allowance claimants have ‘disappeared’ since the sanctions regime was toughened in October 2012. Oldham East and Saddleworth MP, Debbie Abrahams, has publicly lambasted the secretary of state for work and pensions, Iain Duncan Smith, at a Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) Select Committee (5/11/14) for denying that the inappropriate use of sanctions against social security claimants is harming, and even contributing to the deaths, of vulnerable people. The verbal exchange began when Abrahams asked the minister about the huge number of people who leave Job Seeker’s Allowance after being sanctioned and simply disappear from official records, saying: “It is worrying though, isn't it, with the levels of sanctions that we are seeing, hundreds of thousands of people have had their benefits stopped for a minimum of four weeks and then approximately a quarter of these people, from the research that I've seen, are disappearing. “They are leaving and we don’t know where they are going. That’s an absolute indictment of this policy and it’s a little bit worrying if we’re trying to tout this internationally as a real success story.” |
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| RJD | Nov 10 2014, 05:32 PM Post #400 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Why keep up? I do not see a single example where the Coroner has put the reason for such deaths as directly attributable to the DWP. I have not seen one example of a such deaths littering our streets. Again you misrepresent the meaning of words "disappeared" here does not mean "dead". Me thinks you are desperate to catch a straw in the wind. Maybe I should suggest you stand on your feet when you read such reports and read from cover to cover. |
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