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| A Parody of a Parody; George Osbourne's reference to Trainspotting | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 3 2014, 10:41 AM (447 Views) | |
| jeevesnwooster | Oct 3 2014, 10:41 AM Post #1 |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11128754/Conservative-Party-conference-2014-sketch-George-Osborne-goes-Trainspotting.html "Choose jobs. Choose enterprise. Choose security. Choose prosperity, investment, fairness, freedom. Choose David Cameron, choose the Conservatives, choose the future!" Conservative voters truly are the ficklest bunch if they fall for this **it Anyone who's seen Trainspotting or knows the original - "Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a f------ big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers... Choose fixed-interest mortgage payments. Choose a starter home... Choose rotting away at the end of it all, p------ your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, f----- up brats you've spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life..." I just don't think the conservatives understand what they are doing half the time, I really don't. It brings me back to the times Scameron has quoted left-wing sources in his so-called 'revolution' with no hint of irony, no understanding of what the original source actually meant. Or the time Gove quoted Gramsci completely and I mean completely out of context It's frankly scary that we have such dimwits in power |
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| Heinrich | Oct 3 2014, 10:49 AM Post #2 |
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Regular Guy
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England's biggest problem is the people's obsession with class and the two main political parties are committed to serving the interests on one class or the other. New Labour's shift to the right during the Blair years betrayed their core vote and appealed to the majority of voters because they showed how they could be as Tory as the Tories themselves. The political system there and the society it reflects is altogether pitiful. |
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| somersetli | Oct 3 2014, 10:55 AM Post #3 |
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somersetli
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And how would you change it? |
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| C-too | Oct 3 2014, 11:11 AM Post #4 |
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Honourable Member
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NL's partial shift to the right was very different to the Tories. NL's basis was "a third way" it was firstly to get elected after 18 years out of office, something the left played a part in. And secondly, to use the capitalist system "for the benefit of the many not the few" and that is what they did. NL accomplished more for working people than ANY government since Clem Attlee's immediately following WWII. |
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| Heinrich | Oct 3 2014, 11:15 AM Post #5 |
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Your question presents a challenge to me and I fear that in the near future the problem of England's class system is insolvable due to the mindset of the English people themselves. In other words, I do not believe the people understand the destructive nature of the class system there and do not want to change it. Firstly, the English people will need to come to their senses and eliminate the disparity of wealth and privilege and the philosophy which underpins it. It will not happen soon. |
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| RJD | Oct 3 2014, 11:41 AM Post #6 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No England's problem is the lefts obsession with class which reflects into their envy and spite. Most of us became classless in the last century only the Usuals cling on to their feeling of self loathing. Most of us, in the west, in the EU and the USA and elsewhere bought into capitalism and enterprise decades ago and only the Usuals still dream of a socialist paradise. Well such a paradise does not exist and at every attempt it has ruined lives, so forget it and embrace capitalism as in it's sensibly regulated form it does deliver a high standard of material life and provides a buttress against idiot Politicians. |
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| RJD | Oct 3 2014, 11:43 AM Post #7 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You generalise, successful people no matter what their background are insensitive to such classifications. |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 3 2014, 12:00 PM Post #8 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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"Firstly, the English people will need to come to their senses and eliminate the disparity of wealth and privilege" Care to name me a country where this has been done ? |
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| RJD | Oct 3 2014, 12:13 PM Post #9 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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If there is no disparity then there will be no ambition to achieve that which differentiates. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 3 2014, 12:16 PM Post #10 |
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No-one is suggesting no disparity RJD, but the difference between the bottom in Britain and the top around 70 people is beyond offensive. |
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| RJD | Oct 3 2014, 12:28 PM Post #11 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You would find any disparity to be so. You cannot even see the evil of trapping individuals on welfare, so please no lectures from you on what should or should not be acceptable. You have not signed up to the notion that jobs should be better than welfare. As for the differential, best first understand why it exists and why it is getting even wider. Just a tip: there is a massive surplus, global surplus, of individuals with poor educations and no skills chasing jobs that require little other than manual dexterity and working to rote, whilst those with educations and skills are in demand. We will never find enough jobs for all of those without skills and today the Economists consider that we have "full employment". I have made the challenge before; assuming that there is a moral case to shift ~£20b PA from the top to the bottom how is this to be achieved in a sustainable manner within the regulations that we as a nation have signed up for? Best Milliband has to offer is the promise of arm twisting. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 3 2014, 01:20 PM Post #12 |
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I note the verbal punch-up commences veering far off topic as always/ No one defending the unbelievable stupidity from the Tories in the thread header then? Good, that's what I like to see Edited by jeevesnwooster, Oct 3 2014, 01:20 PM.
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| Alberich | Oct 3 2014, 01:31 PM Post #13 |
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Well, I had resisted pointing out the stupidity of your original posting, but since you ask.........! Is it your contention that as Osborne was simply parodying the film, he is somehow a "dimwit"??? You will have to explain your reasoning here. He WOULD have been a dimwit had he used the original words, but what he did in fact was simply point out the advantages of supporting the conservatives over the alternative, using alliteration, which is not an unknown tactic with public speakers. And when remembers that the alternative is Red Ed, and his amateurish motley crew, one can but hope that his mesage bears fruit. The thought of five years under this Labour cabal fills me with dread. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 3 2014, 01:37 PM Post #14 |
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"He WOULD have been a dimwit had he used the original words, but what he did in fact was simply point out the advantages of supporting the conservatives over the alternative, using alliteration, which is not an unknown tactic with public speakers. And when remembers that the alternative is Red Ed, and his amateurish motley crew, one can but hope that his mesage bears fruit. The thought of five years under this Labour cabal fills me with dread. " I think you have missed the point, possibly on purpose, either way you've shot yourself in the foot almost as much as Gideon.
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| Heinrich | Oct 3 2014, 01:56 PM Post #15 |
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Regular Guy
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Several countries in the European Union do not have major disparities between managers and workers. Germany (where there is no monarchy), for example, has an essentially egalitarian society. Égalité is synonymous with the French (where there is no monarchy). Traveling through the Nordic and Mediterranean countries, you will find people who are unconcerned about class and where citizens enjoy bonds of culture, lifestyle, and outlook. This is not the case in England where going to the right school, speaking with the right accent, networking with the right people and getting cushy professional jobs from the ruling class in order to perpetuate the social stratification contributes to the division among English people far more than anything on the Continent. The problem is further compounded by the English people's own unwillingness to confront this social and economic cancer, preferring to believe the toffs are really their betters and the rest know their place. It is a sorry English sickness. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 3 2014, 01:59 PM Post #16 |
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While class is less pronounced in other countries, it still very much exists and it's daft to say Germany has an "essentially egalitarian society" |
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| Heinrich | Oct 3 2014, 02:06 PM Post #17 |
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"Income inequality among working-age people has risen faster in Britain than in any other rich nation since the mid-1970s, according to a report by the OECD." and "However, the report makes clear that even in countries viewed as "fairer" – such as Germany, Denmark and Sweden – this pay gap between rich and poor is expanding ..." http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/05/income-inequality-growing-faster-uk Been to Germany lately then? |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 3 2014, 02:12 PM Post #18 |
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Never said loads of societies aren't MORE equal than Britain, did I? You said: "Several countries in the European Union do not have major disparities between managers and workers." and that Germany has an "essentially egalitarian society" That is what I am disputing |
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| Heinrich | Oct 3 2014, 03:43 PM Post #19 |
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I would agree that in England the people are divided between the Jeeves types and the Woosters. I am not English. I could be wrong. |
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| Cymru | Oct 4 2014, 06:42 AM Post #20 |
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Indeed. Been watching some interesting pieces by The Young Turks where studies from sources they used show what the average person believes the heads of companies should make in relation to the average salary given to employees of that same company, and what the reality is. Suffice to say everyone from Americans to Australians, Britons to Belgians and Canadians to Czechs think the top people at the company should be earning roughly seven times what the average salary at the company they work at is. The reality is that they are earning up to three hundred times the average salary. Some will argue that this is justified on the grounds that to get the best you need to pay top dollar, though studies show this isn't necessarily true as people in equivalent roles but earning less were just as productive, if not more productive, than their better paid counterparts. |
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| Lewis | Oct 4 2014, 07:24 AM Post #21 |
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No the real problem we have are moronic right wingers in this country, those like your leadership who want to preserve a status quo that was outmoded in Thatcher's time. Time for a complete change away from the anachronistic class system that the right want to preserve. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 11:04 AM Post #22 |
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As you are not English, Old Boy you are wrong what oh off to thrash the maid before tiffin
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| Deleted User | Oct 4 2014, 12:15 PM Post #23 |
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Do you mean England or Britain? |
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| Deleted User | Oct 4 2014, 12:23 PM Post #24 |
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This has to be an example of the most inane, banal and superficial stereotyping I have come across. So our little Hitler Youth Troll has reduced the English (or does he mean British; I don't think even he knows which he means) to just two classes; a rather bright and scheming butler and a rather dense and vapid aristocrat or as the Usuals would describe him, an upper class twit. The interesting thing is that the relationship he cites as 'people divided between Jeeves types and the Woosters' works remarkably well, but then I wonder if he knows it is fiction! |
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| Tigger | Oct 4 2014, 12:33 PM Post #25 |
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Verifiable cobblers. According to the OECD (look it up if you don't understand) the UK has by far the worst level of social mobility of any industrialised nation and is shamefully near the bottom of the pile globally, listening to the recent Tory conference only reinforced my own personal views on this, bribes for the elderly, tax cuts primarily to benefit the better of but with no real explanation of how this will be paid for, education likely to come under pressure, the rejection of human rights and absolutely nothing of any merit for those under forty. Disgusting politics for a selfish and at times stupidly short term country. |
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| Tigger | Oct 4 2014, 12:42 PM Post #26 |
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Drivel. As someone who has "made it" I'm constantly aware of the laws and regulations that ensure I can't impinge on the social set up in this country, having money is one thing social connections and the old school tie is something else, the old boys club is alive and well and dissenting voices are not welcome. Having dabbled in a very very small way in local politics I found the experience and particularly the people sadly lacking, being a realist first and foremost I'm not prone to the constant self deception you seem more than happy to practice. |
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| Affa | Oct 4 2014, 12:46 PM Post #27 |
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I do so agree with this. I've written here how I am certain that the whole basis of the Chancellor's economic policy was to arrest progress in order to release the brakes in the run up to the next election - an entirely Selfish Party Political PLAN A that cared nothing for the folk his Austerity measures hit hardest. Short-termism will always define Tory politics ........ even UK business (in general) has a more forward thinking progressive outlook towards the future than do Conservatives < More accurately defined as Opportunistic Grabbers. . |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 12:51 PM Post #28 |
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The days when one could not join a golf club, tennis club, bridge club, send your children to a private school or university, or have a box at Aintree, holiday in Bermuda buy a house in the right part of town unless one had a regimental tie and spoke with a BBC accent are long gone. |
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| Alberich | Oct 4 2014, 01:14 PM Post #29 |
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Perhaps if I were to use words of one syllable, you might be able to grasp the fact that your original posting is ....(how can I put this without you rushing to complain again) up to your usual standard? How's that?
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 01:54 PM Post #30 |
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![]() Shot yourself in the foot a 2nd time then? My usual standard must be too much for you to comprehend and eludes your limited intellect |
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| Heinrich | Oct 4 2014, 01:55 PM Post #31 |
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I am not referring to the fishermen in the Outer Hebrides. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 01:58 PM Post #32 |
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I couldn't believe that CJD said we are classless in England, took a double-take Only someone completely out of touch with reality (left-wing or right-wing) would claim ANY country is egalitarian or classless It just goes to show how people will substitute reality for their own agenda |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 02:03 PM Post #33 |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 02:44 PM Post #34 |
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The irony of a proudly ignorant Daily Mail reader laughing at that post. Somehow I think even monosyllabic content would elude some of our right-wing members here |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 02:51 PM Post #35 |
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Me concrete is cooking nicely thanks for asking I have just finished reading an article in the Guardian me wrists have gone limp, I must read another one to tell me what to do now
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 03:02 PM Post #36 |
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I think the concrete is in your brain judging on that post Still would rather be instructed what to do by the Guardian than Melanie Phillips
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| Deleted User | Oct 4 2014, 04:17 PM Post #37 |
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A meaningless reply. Why did I hope for anything different from this troll! |
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| Alberich | Oct 4 2014, 04:29 PM Post #38 |
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It's sad, really. In your case, ignorance really is bliss. And you seem SO self satisfied, it seems a shame to pop your bubble now and then. But keep 'em coming, Bertie....keep 'em coming!! |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 04:35 PM Post #39 |
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Not as self-satisfied and smug as some, it would seem. Before mentioning ignorance, I ask you to review what you posted: "He WOULD have been a dimwit had he used the original words, but what he did in fact was simply point out the advantages of supporting the conservatives over the alternative, using alliteration, which is not an unknown tactic with public speakers. And when remembers that the alternative is Red Ed, and his amateurish motley crew, one can but hope that his mesage bears fruit. The thought of five years under this Labour cabal fills me with dread. " You obviously still don't understand this thing called "perception", instead, to fit your agenda you've drawn completely false conclusions that are so obviously coloured by your bias. You don't see the irony in a single thing you've posted.. what were you saying about that bubble again?
Edited by jeevesnwooster, Oct 4 2014, 04:36 PM.
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| Rich | Oct 4 2014, 07:42 PM Post #40 |
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I have a simple solution for those that are unhappy with this country......go and do the other thing.......elsewhere. |
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7:36 PM Jul 11