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| Topic Started: Oct 3 2014, 04:22 PM (729 Views) | |
| D-L | Oct 3 2014, 04:22 PM Post #1 |
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Junior Member
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First, it was Cameron's red lines and vetos. Then came May's demands. Now it's Grayling and his ultimatum to the ECHR. The only language they seem to understand is the language of confrontation and threats. Think this is an effective approach to relationships? Well, try it out in your day-to-day life then. Instead of asking for things, demand them. Treat every single conversation as a zero-sum game. Instead of simply ordering a pint at the pub, say "If you don't get me that beer in 30 seconds flat, I'm never coming back here again.". Make sure to throw in lots of threats, ultimatums and red lines. Report back in a month and tell us how successful that approach has proved for you. Edited by D-L, Oct 3 2014, 04:23 PM.
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| Marconi | Oct 4 2014, 10:24 AM Post #41 |
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Regular Member
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That's a pity, but well done for trying. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 4 2014, 10:30 AM Post #42 |
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Senior Member
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Thanks, it may sound simplistic or even unrealistic but I've always said that logically bullies only exist because we allow them to. If everyone stood up to bullies there wouldn't be any. |
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| Gand | Oct 4 2014, 10:40 AM Post #43 |
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Regular Member
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If the intention is to do away with the European Convention on Human Rights along with EU Charter of Fundamental Rights in favour of a UK Bill of Rights, we will gain a Bill of Rights that is largely an unknown quantity, we may have some idea of what it may contain but it hasn’t been officially drawn up yet … I want to be able to read all the small print. If we vote Conservative on this, we are voting for a legislation which we don’t fully know how it will impact on our lives, our privacy, our security, our jobs, employment rights, our basic freedoms and way of life … not just as a country, but personally as individuals. We need to remember that legislation on rights can affect us all and not just those we don’t like. To vote for such an important peace of legislation without a fully comprehensive idea of what it contains or its possible consequences, is to me stupid. This little turkey won’t be voting for Christmas. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 10:47 AM Post #44 |
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Regular Member
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It is impossible for any rational person to debate with you, you are so blinded by hate. You cannot even begin to understand that many people in the UK do not like the fact that we cannot deport those who pose a threat to us, that abuse our hospitality time after time, that commit serious crime including murder and rape then use the very legal system that convicted them to stay here as a burden on the taxpayers for life. Not only are you filled with hate but you are a hypocrite pretending one second to care for others IMO for political reasons and for your own welfare, but in the next breath you advocate and support the execution of a politician that is doing a job that many people want him to do and needs to be done. As for Korea now that is a nasty far left country where nobody including their press dare say or do anything you would not last five seconds there one wrong word and one wrong post and you would be gone. To compare a few changes in one bit of our legislation to that of a soul destroying state such as Korea or as the others of the left prefer Belarus, is sheer lunacy and devoid of any intelligence and not even one small portion of common sense or decency. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 10:56 AM Post #45 |
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Yes I am smarter than that, that is why this is the only reply that your patronising post will get |
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| Affa | Oct 4 2014, 12:23 PM Post #46 |
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Senior Member
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We can see that is true ..... too smart to get further involved in an argument you cannot win. How many times do the Conservatives have to renege on promised amendments to EU policy before you stop believing they ever can or will? |
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| Tigger | Oct 4 2014, 12:55 PM Post #47 |
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Senior Member
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I'm really looking forward to the shitty Tory party tearing itself apart at some point in the not to distant future, Cameron in my opinion has one of the most thankless jobs in politics, and shock horror I actually have a glimmer of respect for the bloke because of this. On the one hand you have the Little Englander back bench Tories who essentially hate foreigners, still think the Empire means something and constantly hark back to a mythical past that never really existed, they want out of Europe primarily for emotional reasons, on the other hand we have the main sponsors of modern Conservatism, big business and the City, both know the financial carnage that would result from a Brexit, therefor conflict within Tory ranks is a given, pompous arses v realists is the battle here. The rejection of the Human Rights Act is a pathetic attempt to win over the retarded back bench Tories and an increasingly gullible public. |
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| Alberich | Oct 4 2014, 12:59 PM Post #48 |
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Alberich
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This is palpable nonsense; even by your standard. If ever we were to leave the E.U. (and roll on the day, say I) are you really suggesting that the present separation that exists between our legislature and our courts, will somehow come to an end, and that westimster politicians will be able to "do what they like", as you put it? We have probably the fairest, most liberal, and fiercely independent justice system in the civilised world. Politicians can legislate with a majority in the House, but the role of the judiciary is to interpret and implement legislation, and they have shown over the years that they are not afraid to ameliorate harsh legislation, and even strike it down if they consider it unjust. What the conservatives are suggesting is that they no longer be bound by the decisions of the ECHR in every case, but will "take note" of that court's decisions, with the final arbiter being our own Supreme court. In other words, the vast majority of the decisions of the ECHR will not be questioned, but on those rare occasions when their decisions fly in the face of common sense, or are contrary to the will of Parliament, then their perverse decions will not be binding, as they are at present. So if we decide to proceed as has been suggested, and opt out of the ECHR, the sun will still rise the next morning, no-one will be disadvantaged at law, our courts will remain independent bastions of justice, and the only difference will be that the more ludicrous decisions that occasionally eminate from Europe will no longer give succour to the criminal, and the terrorist. It is a sensible move on the part of the coalition, and I hope to God they carry it through. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 01:01 PM Post #49 |
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Regular Member
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Wrong its called can't be arsed to join in circular never ending regurgitated nonsense today, I am too busy doing my nails and washing my hair whilst waiting for some concrete to set. If you had not noticed I don't want the EU regulations changed, I want England out of the EU completely we are quite capable of running our own country democratically we managed quite well for many years. The EU is not a democratic organisation, I want no part of it, it is time we were asked what we think, Labour and the Liberals will not dare not even ask us |
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| Affa | Oct 4 2014, 02:03 PM Post #50 |
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Senior Member
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I have never underestimated him, but respect is too close to honour and so I do not use the word. It is imo because the man has no honour that he is able to continue - Most people would have crumbled under the weight of hypocrisy and lies that Cameron has survived. He does so because he firstly has no conscience, and secondly because the Establishment need him and therefore do not hold him to account. A thoroughly nasty man leading a thoroughly nasty party. He has no lips ......... so "watch my lips" will never apply. |
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| Heinrich | Oct 4 2014, 02:07 PM Post #51 |
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Regular Guy
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I am referring to the power of the ruling party's selected Cabinet to disregard the European Court of Human Rights and change English llaw to replace the Human Rights Act with a bill of selected rights which can be added to or amended if the English judiciary are not behaving as the ruling party wishes. That is pretty much doing what they like. This will get the Tories some votes at the next by-election. It is a popular move. Edited by Heinrich, Oct 4 2014, 02:09 PM.
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 4 2014, 02:09 PM Post #52 |
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Very much so, all in all a good town with a lot of good people I'd say |
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| Affa | Oct 4 2014, 02:19 PM Post #53 |
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Senior Member
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Don't you see that the Liberal's, Labour's position is more honourable? Over these past few decades the Tories have gone from Euro-sceptic to being Euro-committed. They are bandwagon jumping, and have no principles - will jump from one passing trend onto the next unhesitatingly. W Haigue said this about Blair "In more than 20 years in politics, he has betrayed every cause he believed in, contradicted every statement he has made, broken every promise he has given and breached every agreement that he has entered into... There is a lifetime of U-turns, errors and sell-outs. All those hon. Members who sit behind the Prime Minister and wonder whether they stand for anything any longer, or whether they defend any point of principle, know who has led them to that sorry state" Fitting that Blair Mrk II should take the model even further down the road to where politics, and politicians are universally despised as corrupt and deceitful. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 4 2014, 02:29 PM Post #54 |
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No I do not think its honourable at all far from it as many have voiced there concerns about the EU the honourable and democratic thing to do would be to ask the people what they want, and abide what the majority want be it stay in or pull out. |
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| Steve K | Oct 4 2014, 09:34 PM Post #55 |
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Once and future cynic
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Labour didn't ditch anything, you seem to have totally mistaken what the HRA is, how it takes effect and why it was necessary. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 4 2014, 09:44 PM Post #56 |
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Upstanding Member
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Where did I patronise you? What did Labour abandon? All The Best |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 4 2014, 10:50 PM Post #57 |
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Senior Member
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Why spoilt he vote ? Just dont vote at all, for a spoilt vote is just binned and counts for nothing. Be positive, not negative, and do your duty. Even fringe parties need votes to encourage them, for all new parties have to start somewhere. |
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| Rich | Oct 4 2014, 11:05 PM Post #58 |
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Senior Member
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Take heart mate, I am known as a rebel at work as I speak my mind, notwithstanding that, management do not bother me much now.
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| Lewis | Oct 5 2014, 10:57 AM Post #59 |
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Senior Member
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To me the best way of dealing with bullies is to ignore them. They thrive on a reaction as they are typically attention seekers. This is what I tend to do as a rule with the bullies on this website. Mind to here, I do tend to play them up so as to elicit the childish insults, as such behaviour shows them up for what they are. |
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| Steve K | Oct 5 2014, 11:46 AM Post #60 |
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Once and future cynic
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We've done this before. Non votes are ignored just treated as not disapproving of whoever wins, voting for minor parties are treated as either supporting that view or being deranged or both. If any real % of the non voters went in and actively spoilt their votes then they would get looked at, it is the right of the candidates agents to so look. Now if a Tory loses a marginal by 500 votes and his/her agent tells them "funny there were 1,000 spoilt votes with "don't fuck with Human rights" written on them" then they will very much get noticed. |
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| jeevesnwooster | Oct 5 2014, 11:56 AM Post #61 |
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You probably put it more succinctly than I could
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| D-L | Oct 6 2014, 02:26 PM Post #62 |
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Junior Member
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Cameron would do VERY well to get himself a copy of Dale Carnegie's seminal work How to win friends and influence people. Edited by D-L, Oct 6 2014, 02:27 PM.
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7:36 PM Jul 11