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| Ukip come within 600 votes of having TWO MP's at Westminster | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 10 2014, 05:46 AM (1,259 Views) | |
| johnofgwent | Oct 10 2014, 05:46 AM Post #1 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Blessed are the alarm clocks that wake your missus, for they allow you first peck at the juicy headline ... I wake this morning to find that Clacton has a UKIP Member of Parliament. That isn't all that surprising, the man was clearly unhappy at Cameron's leadership, and over fifty per cent of the electorate turned out to demonstrate that they are not happy with him either, to the tune of a twelve thousand majority over the "official concervative and unionist party candidate" with the others in the running reduced to the status not so much of "also rans" but more "did they bother to leave the starting gate ?" What I find most entertaining, coming as I do from a constituency where the sitting (L:abour) MP has pissed her 10,000 + majority up the wall and wonlast time by a mere 1000 votes on a turnout higher than it has been for a while, is that the OTHER by election, in a constituency LABOUR have held comfortably since it was created in 1983, a by-election caused not by political discontent but by the death of the sitting MP, UKIP came to within SIX HUNDRED VOTES of winning. LABOUR held the seat with 11,600 and something the UKIP's Eleven Thousand. I shall REALLY enjoy voting UKIP in May 2015 in Newport East. |
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| Replies: | |
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| Affa | Oct 12 2014, 12:11 PM Post #81 |
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I completely agree, Ukip are Establishment. Old Tories, as such more to the right than Cameron, where Cameron dare not go. They are however different from the rest in their regard of the EU. That is where they cause upheaval - let's watch the fall-out. I do realistically see Ukip having 20 plus seats next May ....... enough to be effective. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 12 2014, 12:12 PM Post #82 |
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Upstanding Member
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Watch the GP? No thanks, its no more interesting these days than watching Scalextric. You are correct, you hadn't said the BNP were right-wing. My apologies. All The Best |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 12 2014, 12:14 PM Post #83 |
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Upstanding Member
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All of them wrong. The BNP is further left-wing than Michael's Foot's Labour party. All The Best |
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| jaguar | Oct 12 2014, 12:15 PM Post #84 |
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Regular Member
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IMHO anyone who believes UKIP are not a threat to both parties are deluding themselves. The Clacton result was a foregone conclusion, but the Heywood & Middleton result was a shock. Both parties have ignored the North believing that they will all vote Labour. The poorest part of England - and the second poorest part of the UK is the North East, if anyone believes Northerners are quite happy to be ignored, I believe Labour are in for another shock, the same goes for for parts of the South affecting the Tories. The remark, Labour actually increased its share of the vote in Heywood & Middleton, was to say the least laughable, they nearly lost the election for Gods sake. I know there are some that believe with the SNP taking seats in Scotland from Labour, the Tories will sail home, but I wouldn't put a bet on it. I gather UKIP are also concentrating on Wales as well as the North. I would however bet a pound to a penny both parties will be promising the world, saving the NHS,( thats always a good one) promising jobs, reducing taxes and anything else that will appeal to Electorate to gain power. Although I will not be voting UKIP, I would say, ignore them at your peril. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 12 2014, 12:42 PM Post #85 |
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Affa, regarding the EU, what makes you think this principle isn't for sale? Farrage was happy to jump into bed with Murdoch, thus proving he's happy to tolerate foreign influences if it helps his bid for power. |
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| Steve K | Oct 12 2014, 01:15 PM Post #86 |
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Once and future cynic
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perhaps that would have some relevance if anyone here had said that. The concern is that so many of the more vocal UKIP supporters and candidates do not know one end of their policies from the other. And ta PV |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 12 2014, 02:26 PM Post #87 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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well pardon me but both those shitebags left a trail of destruction for me that puts the one maggie did to shame. |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 12 2014, 02:27 PM Post #88 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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NO WE WERE NOT. We were always slightly to the right of Mr Donkey Jacket thank you. But not much |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 12 2014, 02:33 PM Post #89 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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In a world where neither the Pime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, nor the First Ministers of the Scottish parliament, Welsh waste of time and Irish Malcontents Meeting Place can tell you today what policy they will have tomorrow, as all spin like wind turbines in their attemot to catch the voters as they flash fleetingly past, why the hell does it matter if those who vote for giving the establishment a kicking cannot tell you what they have actually votes for, other than what they actually voted for, which was to give the arrogant bastards a kicking ... |
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| Lewis | Oct 12 2014, 06:13 PM Post #90 |
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Dear oh dear! Farage in a newspaper interview stated that he could do a future deal with Labour, but not Scameron who he considers a fool. Well I can't dispute his feelings about Scammer's who I also think is a complete fool, well more than that a moronic 'mother ******' (expletive substituted of course). http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukips-nigel-farage-ill-offer-4422291 Actually a UKIP/Labour alliance wouldn't be a bad thing and it would show these out of touch Tory incompetents a thing or two. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 12 2014, 06:29 PM Post #91 |
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Upstanding Member
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No, this is about Frage being several times smarter than Miliband, or Cameron. Farage wants out of the EU, and so does a significant portion of the electorate. Cameron has promised a referendum, and may even deliver one - even if he will (regardless of any renegotiations) campaign for In. Miliband is opposed to democracy and has said there is no need to ask the public what they think. But Miliband is also desperate for power - to legitimise his claim as Labour leader. So Farage offers a carrot and donkey-Ed may even swallow it. But if Miliband does swallow it Farage may well get a referendum no matter what happens; Cameron could deliver such if the Tories win and Miliband/Farage could deliver such if they cosy-up to keep the Tories out. Secondly, by not offering a deal to the Tories Farage has made it more likely that disaffected Tories will jump-ship before the election; and if they follow suit and opt for by-elections the Tories will be be tired of campaigning continuously before the election and may well slip-up during the election campaign; UKIP will also maintain a strong media presence through to the election, something that harms both Labour and the Tories. The Liberals are, in effect, out of the picture and I'd be shocked if they retain their deposits in 70% of the seats they are standing in - their brief flirtation with power, and the betrayal of core principles it required will see them cast into the political wilderness for a decade or more - and that is why Farage has felt no need to offer such a deal to the Libs. Farage is showing that he is smarter than most of our leading politicians. All The Best |
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| Lewis | Oct 12 2014, 07:08 PM Post #92 |
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Accepted Farage is no fool, but despite the appearances neither is Milliband. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 12 2014, 07:57 PM Post #93 |
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I disagree. Miliband could almost assure a Labour victory victory in the next GE with just one announcement: "A Labour government will guarantee an In/Out referendum on the issue of EU Membership". Cameron is pussy-footing about with notions of renegotiation that he already knows he is not going to get. The Liberals will never give us a referendum because they want In (all the way) and know that most of the electorate don't. A huge part of the swell in support for UKIP is the EU issue. By not giving such a guarantee Miliband shows that he is part of the Clegg ideology of politics - the plebs are not fit to decide and so must be preached to and preached to until they see it our way. And this is the second part of the huge swell in support for UKIP - they are listening to the man in the street, not preaching to him. Miliband is a fool for positioning himself on the wrong side of the "preach / listen" fence. The old preaching politics has had its day, its a huge turn-off for the voters. All The Best |
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| Tigger | Oct 12 2014, 08:20 PM Post #94 |
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I suspect you are kidding yourself. Europe is a long way down on the shopping list for most voters, the economy, education and the NHS are all well above Europe in terms of importance. UKIP is popular at the present time because they make the main two parties squirm and have upset the Westminster machine, the fact that most UKIP voters understand little about this party is also revealing, never underestimate the electorates willingness to try and p off the big two, but do underestimate their ability to actually understand what they are really voting for, you'll get different answers from different ukippers and most will be based on misinformation. A protest vote is one thing having to live with the consequences of it is something else entirely. |
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| Affa | Oct 12 2014, 09:19 PM Post #95 |
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If Farage and UKIP had a hundred MPs they still could not force through a vote in Parliament to exit the EU. Their value is as a democratic representation of the will of the people (many off) that the Establishment recognise but refuse to listen to, refuse to do anything about. Ukip can change that, make the Establishment take note. And above all make the TUC take note. The first Labour MPs (two) were elected in 1906 - 29 in 1910 - 42 ....... they changed British politics. Time for another change. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 12 2014, 10:48 PM Post #96 |
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No one falls for this crap anymore Tigger and you know it. The economy can't be fixed until we get a handle on welfare spending. We can't get a handle on welfare spending until unemployment decreases and wages significantly increase. Neither of those will happen as long as we have uncontrolled and unsustainable levels of immigration. We can't fix immigration until we deal with the EU issue. Thus "the economy" is an EU issue. Likewise education: can't be fixed until we get some control over class sizes, class sizes can't be fixed as long as the number of required school places keeps on increasing as it does, and that will keep on increasing until we fix immigration. Thus education is an EU issue. Now, when it comes to the EU you've always advocated that we have a properly informed debate; so why seek to misinform that debate now with these oft repeated, and oft rebuked lies? Economy Education Housing Welfare Living Costs All issues significantly caused or adversely affected by our continued membership of the EU. More and more working class people are starting to see through the deliberate misinformation and realise that; and that is why UKIP are picking up more votes from Labour than they are the Tories. All The Best |
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| Rich | Oct 13 2014, 01:29 AM Post #97 |
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I disagree HH, I view UKIP as a catalyst to ignite a fire below the buttocks of those in the house and force them to listen to and act upon the concerns of those that trust and send them there and pay their over inflated wages and expenses accounts. Edited by Rich, Oct 13 2014, 01:30 AM.
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| Heinrich | Oct 13 2014, 02:22 AM Post #98 |
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Everyone is forgetting that with almost two seats at Westminster, Nigel Faberge could be the next Prime Minster. Did you think of that? |
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| Rich | Oct 13 2014, 02:26 AM Post #99 |
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You must be everyone then as I do not for one moment think that anyone else on this board is under that delusion. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 13 2014, 05:33 AM Post #100 |
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Rich, I really hope you are right wrt to UKIP but sadly I think that's just what they want you to think so that they can get enough votes to allow them to get their own snouts in the trough. |
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| Lewis | Oct 13 2014, 07:10 AM Post #101 |
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You state that UKIP are picking up more votes from Labour then the Tories. I doubt the veracity of that statement. One trusts that you can quote a verifiable source to back that up? |
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| RJD | Oct 13 2014, 07:57 AM Post #102 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I have long held the view that the BNP is to Labour that which the UKIP is to the Tories. The reason Labour loath the BNP comes from a long look in the mirror. Just look at the BNP Manifesto. |
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| krugerman | Oct 13 2014, 08:57 AM Post #103 |
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The reason Labour loathe the BNP has nothing what so ever to do with any threat politically, because the BNP were never at any time a political threat. The reason the BNP are loathed, and not only by Labour, but by all mainstream political parties, is because they are / were a neo nazi party, founded by a a nazi sympathiser who was once a member of the British Union of Fascists, and who admired Hitler and who kept a copy of Mein Kampf. The BNP were hated by most people because they are / were a party of utter hatred, the worst kind of hatred based purely upon a persons colour, ethnic origin or faith. The BNP are hated because many amongst their ranks are / were Holocaust deniers, Nick Griffin himself once calling the Holocaust "the Hollohoax", he stated that "a few thousand Jews were shot, because they were resistance fighters or communists". I am always reluctant to use the term "scum", but in the case of the BNP I have no hesitation in using such terms. |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 13 2014, 09:57 AM Post #104 |
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Your right! They only applauded when the proposals were to spend more and to take more off hard working taxpayers. Isnt that what got us into the financial mess we are in in the first place? Milk the rich and give us more, along with mkore time off and less working hours. Living within our means seems to be anathema to them. |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 13 2014, 10:08 AM Post #105 |
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To defeat your enemy you first need to demonise them and dehumanise them, but remeber that in doing so you will always make it harder to interact, change or negotiate with them. We see it so often on these boards, especially from those to the left of politics in an attempt to boost their own standing. They can do no wrong, and are always right , the opposition is always posted in a bad light,never entitled to praise, no matter how practical and reasonable their actions or policies may be O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! It wad frae mony a blunder free us, An' foolish notion: What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us, An' ev'n devotion! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 13 2014, 10:11 AM Post #106 |
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Ty, plenty of right wingers on these boards do the exact same thing as well, tribalist mud singers are evenly represented accross the political spectrum. If you can't see that then you are as biased as those that you are complaining about. Edited by Happy Hornet, Oct 13 2014, 10:13 AM.
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| Tytoalba | Oct 13 2014, 11:24 AM Post #107 |
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We are all biased in one way or another, by our circumstances, education religion,who we marry, or past indoctrination, conciously or unconciously. Being totally objective, ignoting our own needs in favour of the whole is difficult for us. Im no different from others ,but at least I try to be aware of it. To have a gentle dig occasionally is quite satisfying, don't you think? |
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| Tigger | Oct 13 2014, 12:08 PM Post #108 |
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What I do know is that many including yourself are fixated on blaming the EU, immigration and the allegedly the loss of sovereignty for the majority of our ills, you see PV many of the chronic problems the UK suffers from are self inflicted, the problems will not go away with a Brexit in fact they'll be magnified even further and with the addition of a whole host of new economic problems to contend with. So what happens when the euphoria of a Brexit evaporates and the British public realise they've been hoodwinked yet again? Doesn't bare thinking about does it............ |
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| Tigger | Oct 13 2014, 12:17 PM Post #109 |
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Double post.
Edited by Tigger, Oct 13 2014, 12:18 PM.
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| Tigger | Oct 13 2014, 12:19 PM Post #110 |
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Very satisfying!
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| Alberich | Oct 13 2014, 03:24 PM Post #111 |
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Alberich
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Well argued, PV. You are SO right. Our parliament is neutered by our membership of the E.U. The areas in which we have independence of action are few and far between, and in those areas which are crying out for solutions, we cannot do a thing as long as we remain tied to the E.U. The massive swing towards UKIP is largely explained by the fact that many voters now realise that the only party promising to actually address their main concerns over the level of immigration, and continued membership of the E.U. is UKIP. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 13 2014, 04:37 PM Post #112 |
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I don't know if they will get as many as 20 seats, possibly 10 and yes that really will put the fox in the hen house which is exactly what is needed |
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| Stan Still | Oct 13 2014, 04:42 PM Post #113 |
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A week is a long time in politics, last I heard he would do a deal with the Tories given UKIP's stance on the EU they would be foolish to side with Labour as they are pro EU. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 13 2014, 04:45 PM Post #114 |
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You have more chance of being hit by lighting than seeing the BNP in power, or a far left party |
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| Stan Still | Oct 13 2014, 04:48 PM Post #115 |
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Can't argue with any of that yes I agree
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| Heinrich | Oct 13 2014, 04:57 PM Post #116 |
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Regular Guy
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Great post, StanStill.
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| Tytoalba | Oct 13 2014, 05:02 PM Post #117 |
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Before joining the EU {or was it a common market we voted for?} this country was well able to lok after its own affairs and trade with the world. Our Parliament and courts were to be admired. Why we need to be part of the EU and governed by EU rules and regulations does seem to be against our own best interests. Cameron says he will give us a vote in 2017, Farraqe says he will demend the referendum to be as soon as possible if he is invited to join any party in a coalition after the next GE. Now that does not sound like an immediate withdrawel from the EU, it says that he wants a referendum, and for the people to decide. Sounds the sensible and fair way of adressing the troubling issue and being in control of our own destiny. It really is what the conservatives should be saying, not waiting until 2017. As for renegotiating terms, that should be in process now, to know if any will be agreed to by the EU. If we know that new condition and terms are not to be agreed to , then our vote should go to UKIP. A succesful UKIP will shake the EU to its core, with other countries following our example. Have no doubt that our Scottish referendum was viewed with interest world wide,, and UKIPs recent successes in the EU elections and now in our Parliament will be focusing minds in Europe. A vote for UKIP is no longer a wasted vote. |
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| krugerman | Oct 13 2014, 05:37 PM Post #118 |
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Why do anti Europe posters believe or assume that a referendum will result in a "Yes" vote to leave the EU. ? A comprehensive poll by YouGov in 2010 showed that 47% would vote to leave, 33% would vote to stay, and 19% are either undecided or would not vote. But that comprehensive poll also found some other very interesting findings Time it seems, is running out for Eurosceptics The most Eurosceptic people in the UK are the over 60s age group, with the 18 - 24 age group been very pro European. Also, history teaches us that voting intentions always change during and after a campaign, as happened in Scotland recently, the pro Europeans have been largely silent, almost all the shouting (so far) has been by those who want the status quo to change, in other words Nigel Farage, UKIP, the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory Party and the Daily Mail. Leaving the EU is not a foregone conclusion following a long campaign where the issues will be thrashed out |
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| Lewis | Oct 13 2014, 05:41 PM Post #119 |
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So you see it in those terms then? How morose! The left is an enemy. Just as well I'm not left wing then! Well what about the right wing then. They seem to think it is Okay to bully, to browbeat, to insult, to belittle. Well let them try it, for it demonstrates quite nicely how pathetic and crass they really are. As the great bard said "Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders that I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear; Seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come" Edited by Lewis, Oct 13 2014, 05:44 PM.
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| Tigger | Oct 13 2014, 05:43 PM Post #120 |
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Spoken like a true ignoramus who has never even bothered to look behind lurid tabloid reports! Truly risible.......... |
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7:35 PM Jul 11