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Farage is right.
Topic Started: Oct 11 2014, 01:29 PM (1,421 Views)
Alberich
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Alberich
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I note that Farage has attracted some criticism from the usual suspects about his comments on the NHS and newcomers with HIV. He argued that no-one from outside the EU should be allowed to come here and claim treatment under the NHS if they are suffering from an HIV infection, unless they have health insurance and are able to pay. What he is basically saying is that the NHS cannot continue to offer free medical care (especially the very expensive antiretroviral treatment that AIDS requires) to all and sundry on arrival. Africa, as an example, is awash with HIV sufferers, and the attraction of free health care for that illness in the UK is, for many in that continent, overwhelming. Hundreds are already here and being treated....free of charge to them; but not to us.

Surely Farage is right. It is self evident. We cannot offer the facilities of the NHS, free of charge, to all who come here; especially those who have illness before they travel to these shores. Nige should be congratulated for stating the bleeding obvious, instead of having the guardianistas throwing up their hands in horror. Good for you, Farage.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Oct 18 2014, 07:37 AM
It is impossible for the UK or even the EU or the USA to extract itself from globalisation.
Not impossible RJD, at some time in the not too distant future, Britain, and the rest of the world will have to rely on what is sustainably available locally.
It would be better to plan for that whilst we can, than wait until the change is forced by circumstance.
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Stan Still
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Affa
Oct 14 2014, 09:54 PM
Stan Still
Oct 14 2014, 09:29 PM
Rich
Oct 13 2014, 09:16 PM
Affa
Oct 13 2014, 05:13 PM


What's your point?
The NHS is struggling 'to maintain standards'!
That doesn't mean the 'system' is broke, it doesn't mean the system is wrong. What it does mean is that increasing demands have not been met by increased facilities, staff, or access - in fact there has been a decrease in Nurse numbers, wards closed for "bed shortage", A&E units closed ....... and much more lowering of standards. A situation of increasing demand and reduced resources.

I wish I knew what it is you think the NHS needs in order to improve its service (apart for a curb on immigration), so that I could debate whether it has merit or not. Of one thing I am sure is that this coalition does not have the correct approach, so standards will continue to fall.





As Mr Farage has stated many times we have in this country a NATIONAL health service, unfortunately thanks to Labour opening the flood gates to all and sundry we now have an International health service and therein lies the problem, too many taking advantage of something they have not contributed to which only dilutes the treatment and services available within the budget that taxpayers in this country contribute to.

And that is the simple truth of the matter, the same can be said of all our other public services paid for by taxpayers, perhaps now you can see why we MUST leave the EU and negotiate trading terms only which we had already before that twat Heath lied to us, it was then called the common market and as far as I know, upgrading that to what it is today has cost this country untold billions of pounds......WASTED!!!.
It is struggling with the amount of people it has to treat, we have imported Doctors and staff instead of training enough of our own people, it is badly run and haemorrhaging money, bad political decisions once again has wasted billions.

I want it to survive but it can't if it continues lurching from one crisis after another, yes I want out of the EU as well


Oh bugger ........ editing still beats me.

Stan; I'm with you.
Where we differ is in this concept of the NHS being in crisis.
It only experiences crisis when funding is withdrawn - the UK spends about the European average on Health care (now less), is rated amongst the best. It isn't broke.
This ebola crisis has seen the NHS's reputation increase ....... it performs well.

How long it can continue as it is does in a big way depend on the strains put on it by immigratio
[/quote]As far as I am aware funding has not been reduced, also bad reports in the media yet again this week shows how many mistakes are being made in the NHS
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C-too
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RJD
Oct 16 2014, 07:28 AM
C-too
Oct 16 2014, 07:09 AM
Steve K
Oct 14 2014, 03:31 PM
C-too
Oct 14 2014, 09:21 AM
The present problems with the EU are mainly caused by the same problems we face here in the UK and in the rest of the Western economies. My guess is that all will recover sooner or later and that will be the proper time to pass judgement on the EU.

AFAIA we are already trading with and expanding trade with the rest of the world.
That's the lie Phoenix One repeats so often and wishes us all to believe

The truth is rather sadly the opposite

Posted Image

"Non-EU Exports for August 2014 are £10.9 billion. This is a decrease of £2.2 billion (16.8 per cent) compared to last month, and a decrease of £4.6 billion (29.7 per cent) compared to August 2013. This is the lowest export value since May 2010."


https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/NonEUOverseasTrade/Pages/NonEuOTS.aspx

That suggests that the Tory claim to have the fastest growing economy should be framed in the past sense.
I seem to recall a comment suggesting that the growth we did have was short term and was likely to fall in 2005.


Yes it was the IMF view that the UK economy had far too much cheap money leveraged on dodgy assets in 2007 and was overheated. The current concern is that the post crisis recovery is over for the global economy and we are just on the edge of a deflationary spiral. So do we retrenchment or continue to prime the pump with QE? As I said we should have rid ourselves of the overhang in one go and made the economy fit to weather the next storm.
It is worth understanding that the growth we currently have has not been forged by Politicians, they can only help or hinder with taxes and social costs. So if the EZ goes down the Crapper I am afraid we will follow.
It is vital that we cut Big Nanny to N affordable size asap.
As for current UK growth there is none in GDP per capita terms and there is zilch that Labour could have done to improve such, only worsen. What we are seeing is the brutal affects of far too many people on a global basis chasing few jobs of the unskilled variety. What we going to do? Chase these jobs from the UK by increasing the NMW?
2005 should have read 2015.
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Affa
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RJD
Oct 18 2014, 07:37 AM
It is impossible for the UK or even the EU or the USA to extract itself from globalisation. Like it or not it is here to stay. If we wish to benefit from a global market place then best learn to add value to raw materials refined elsewhere at a low cost. Often in the Added Value Chain manufacturing is the least significant cost.I

I agree with you ......... and oddly, when I have made similar observations it has been those on the right that have declared it 'rubbish'.

Being a country where the service industry sector is by far the biggest employer it is this notion of 'value added' wealth creation they have difficulty with. Very often their insistence that the public sector service industry is a drain on wealth prevents them from seeing the reality of it.

Why this happens is a symptom of the lingering conviction that Nationalised Service sector jobs do not add wealth, but are a burden on the Private sector where wealth is created.
When I ask how does it occur that Privatising a Nationalised Industry (eg Energy provisions) is able to turn it from a drain on tax payers into a wealth creating asset?

My verdict is of course that it doesn't - my verdict is that the whole idea is right-wing BS.



Edited by Affa, Oct 18 2014, 09:46 AM.
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Affa
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Stan Still
Oct 18 2014, 07:48 AM
As far as I am aware funding has not been reduced, also bad reports in the media yet again this week shows how many mistakes are being made in the NHS

Whilst any and all mistakes are regrettable, and we must assume are avoidable, it is not clever to determine that these reports by themselves are reason to declare the NHS is in crisis or to say it isn't working, needs a complete overall.

It will be possible to unearth true cases of negligence and mistakes in the Health care industry anywhere, under any system - a wrong diagnosis, a careless medical officer, whatever. It is the use of such as propaganda to try to usher in reforms (that will never prevent mistakes) that I find most despicable.


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Tigger
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RJD
Oct 18 2014, 07:37 AM
It is impossible for the UK or even the EU or the USA to extract itself from globalisation. Like it or not it is here to stay. If we wish to benefit from a global market place then best learn to add value to raw materials refined elsewhere at a low cost. Often in the Added Value Chain manufacturing is the least significant cost.I
I could be wrong here but someone else on this forum with the exact same name as you said a few days ago that making things was a struggle in the UK and that we'd best concentrate on highly profitable money shuffling! ;D
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Stan Still
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Affa
Oct 18 2014, 09:58 AM
Stan Still
Oct 18 2014, 07:48 AM
As far as I am aware funding has not been reduced, also bad reports in the media yet again this week shows how many mistakes are being made in the NHS

Whilst any and all mistakes are regrettable, and we must assume are avoidable, it is not clever to determine that these reports by themselves are reason to declare the NHS is in crisis or to say it isn't working, needs a complete overall.

It will be possible to unearth true cases of negligence and mistakes in the Health care industry anywhere, under any system - a wrong diagnosis, a careless medical officer, whatever. It is the use of such as propaganda to try to usher in reforms (that will never prevent mistakes) that I find most despicable.


Having had family working in the NHS that have now left in disgust and what I see at my local brand new hospital their and my opinion is the NHS is struggling
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