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a rock and a hard place
Topic Started: Oct 14 2014, 01:08 PM (364 Views)
Alberich
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Alberich
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Labour has come out and has openly said that it will not take part in cross-party discussions about "English votes for English laws". This cannot be an easy position for Labour to be in. Anyone with a sense of justice must realise that the present system is both unfair and unsupportable, and the removal of the right of Scottish MPs to vote on issues purely affecting the English attracts popular support from all sides of the electorate. Especially as both the conservatives AND Labour are now honour bound to keep the rash promises they made just before the Scottish referendum. With yet more powers being devolved north of the border, the argument in favour of the status quo viv a vis Scottish MPs in Westminster cannot be sustained much longer.

With the Commons debating devolution, Labour has decided to boycott a body set up by Cameron to examine the future role of English MPs in the House, no doubt hoping that if they can get the issue into the long grass, it will quietly go away. I suppose they can do little else really, as Scottish MP's, almost to a man, are Labour, and the removal of their support on most government business would make the task of Labour ever holding a working majority extremely difficult and remote. But once this body comes to the only decision they can, and recommends the removal of Scottish votes on English matters, then if the coalition puts it to the vote, and speaks with one mind on this issue (and that would entail trusting the duplicitous Cleggie to deliver) they can out-vote Labour, and force the measure through.

As if poor old ED hasn't got enough to worry about.......
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Affa
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Major Sinic
Oct 17 2014, 12:15 PM
What you fail to realise is that recent drops in wholesale prices have not been passed on in full to end users as a direct result of Milibands irresponsible and naive electioneering promise. No business in its right mind is to going to reduce the price platform at which its prices are going to subsequently be frozen.


The reason Miliband made the statement is because these energy Giants were not passing on savings from reduced wholesale charges. The whole basis of the argument revolves around the profiteering of these companies and their greed in maintaining retail prices when their own costs are reduced.

That you try to turn it on its head (from political bias - I'd hate for it to be stupidity) only damages your standing.



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Affa
Oct 17 2014, 05:01 PM
Major Sinic
Oct 17 2014, 12:15 PM
What you fail to realise is that recent drops in wholesale prices have not been passed on in full to end users as a direct result of Milibands irresponsible and naive electioneering promise. No business in its right mind is to going to reduce the price platform at which its prices are going to subsequently be frozen.


The reason Miliband made the statement is because these energy Giants were not passing on savings from reduced wholesale charges. The whole basis of the argument revolves around the profiteering of these companies and their greed in maintaining retail prices when their own costs are reduced.

That you try to turn it on its head (from political bias - I'd hate for it to be stupidity) only damages your standing.



Pot, kettle,black springs immediately to mind!

Net profts before tax averaging around 5% pa is hardly justification for an accusation of profiteering, and those are typical of the industry, but again as a result of political bias; I would hate to think it was stupidity, you choose to make this unjustified accusation.

Again through political bias; I would hate to think it was naivety, you suggest that Miliband made this electioneering promise in order to bring the energy industry to heel and not as a populist move to win votes from the commercially naive and gullible. It was a foolish, damaging and irresponsible statement for all the reasons I am becoming bored with repeating.

Again, to pursue one example, Centrica contributes £14 billion to the British economy and its activities raise a 'total tax contribution' of £4.4 billion, much of it from overseas activities. Apart from employing over 17000 people directly in the UK it indirectly is responsible for tens of thousands more jobs through its supply line.

Rather than create damaging confrontation like the anti-business Miliband does, a responsible government should acknowledge the massive contributions that this and other energy companies make to our economy.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9890198/Centrica-reveals-its-14bn-boost-to-UK-economy.html
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Stan Still
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Major Sinic
Oct 14 2014, 10:35 PM
Affa
Oct 14 2014, 08:48 PM
Major Sinic
Oct 14 2014, 03:09 PM
.

If Miliband was a true statesman, rather than a political pygmy, who genuinely wished to consider the issue of English devolution over an extended period of time, he would simply demand a mandate within the Labour Party that no Scottish Labour MP would vote under any circumstances on an English only issue, until such time as England's Westminster MPs resolved the issue once and for all. This could be accomplished within a week! All it takes is Labour's integrity! All that is missing is Labour's integrity!

It may happen in that way, but there will be resistance to such a pragmatic solution - for entirely Party Political motives. So it will not be put to rest.
As it is I know of only one 'vote' where Scottish MPs actually have influenced English policy (not theirs), and that was the Blair government pushing through Student Fees.

Those votes were needed because both the Conservatives and the Liberals OPPOSED student fees.
Low-and-behold, this Conservative + Liberal coalition immediately revoked, sorry, increased Student fees on taking over.

So in effect, in actuality, Scottish MPs have not exercised that power to determine English policy at all ...... a big fuss over nothing. A mountain out of a non-existent mole hill.


That you consider it not only acceptable, but a fuss about nothing, for a Scottish MP to have a say, influence and a vote over an issue in England, but an English MP to have no say, influence or vote at all over an issue in Scotland almost leaves me speechless with dismay. Such democratic injustice is beyond rational defence, and you let yourself down by trying to justify it.

You look to the past when you refer to a mountain from a non-existant mole-hill, and in doing so you conveniently forget the additional devolutionary powers which are to be granted to Scotland in January including tax raising powers and the NHS. This will have the effect of increasing the number of English only issues on which Scottish MPs will be able to infuence and vote including, to name but a few, English tax revenue policies, the English NHS, and English transport policy. Anything other than an urgent resolution to this issue is quite simply an undemocratic outrage.

What will happen next May I don't know, but I suspect and fervently hope that Labour's current policy of putting their own party political interest above the democratic rights of the vast majority of the British population will cost them dear, particularly in the northern constituencies.
Fully agree well said, I too hope the voters in the North give Labour what for
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 17 2014, 07:05 PM.
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Rich
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Affa
Oct 17 2014, 05:01 PM
Major Sinic
Oct 17 2014, 12:15 PM
What you fail to realise is that recent drops in wholesale prices have not been passed on in full to end users as a direct result of Milibands irresponsible and naive electioneering promise. No business in its right mind is to going to reduce the price platform at which its prices are going to subsequently be frozen.


The reason Miliband made the statement is because these energy Giants were not passing on savings from reduced wholesale charges. The whole basis of the argument revolves around the profiteering of these companies and their greed in maintaining retail prices when their own costs are reduced.

That you try to turn it on its head (from political bias - I'd hate for it to be stupidity) only damages your standing.





Surely, that is the fault of the watchdog who obviously has no teeth or spine.
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