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| Unemployment below 2 millon | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 15 2014, 09:03 AM (1,918 Views) | |
| papasmurf | Oct 15 2014, 09:03 AM Post #1 |
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Unemployment below 2 million BUT:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29627831 However, the number of people classed as economically inactive, including students, long-term sick and those retiring early, increased by 113,000 in the quarter to more than nine million. The number of self-employed people dropped by 76,000 in the latest three-month period to 4.5 million, but the total is 279,000 higher than a year ago. And the number of employees in part-time jobs has reached a record high of 6.8 million. |
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| Steve K | Oct 15 2014, 09:14 AM Post #2 |
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Once and future cynic
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As you say "But" It may be a less worse position than a few years ago but it is nothing to be proud of |
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| Affa | Oct 15 2014, 11:10 AM Post #3 |
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The term 'recovery' implies that things get better, that there is a return to the prosperity that was (pre-crisis). There never has been a recession which wasn't immediately followed by a recovery, until now. It's of no merit at all for Osborne to claim success for a partial recovery, a recovery that has not yet restored living standards. A government of 'A' level school kids could have done just as well, perhaps even better, and been more critical of themselves than has Osborne been of his own failures. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 15 2014, 11:14 AM Post #4 |
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There isn't a recovery now. Millions more "in work" yet total hours worked in the economy does not reflect that. Income tax take down by nearly 7% despite those millions in work. ( The raising of the tax threshold just does not explain that.) |
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| RJD | Oct 15 2014, 11:31 AM Post #5 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I am sure that our levels of unemployment particularly for those under 25 years of age are preferable than that found in France or Italy or Spain. As the IMF pointed out, this is a World wide problem and in the scheme of things the UK is better placed than many mature economies. The inference that the Gov. any Gov. has a Magic Wand is risible, it hasn't. The inference from the serial complainers that the UK is not generous with welfare support is a big fat lie, it is and compared with many extremely generous. Try being unemployed in Paris or Naples. Try being incapable of supporting yourself in Italy where family still expected take on responsibilities. I am afraid that there are far too many very mobile people across the globe willing to sell their labour for relatively little compared with that enjoyed here in our protected industries of 50 years ago. The global wind of change is a blizzard and it is not going to blow out any time soon, if ever. There is no obvious escape, so best tool up to combat it best we can. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 15 2014, 04:57 PM Post #6 |
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It has taken 6 years to reach this stage and will take more years to really improve, I will give Cameron his due he states there is much more still to do, IMO there is no quick fix available no matter which party is in charge. Edited by Stan Still, Oct 15 2014, 04:58 PM.
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 15 2014, 05:11 PM Post #7 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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I know how to reduce unemployment to zero. It's easy isn't it? Take 2 million workers in full time employment, reduce their hours to 20 hours per week, then fill the hole in man hours with 20 hours each for the 2 million unemployed. Easy innit? I bet they think people are folk. |
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 15 2014, 05:13 PM Post #8 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Oh hang on. Thats at least 4 million more now getting benefit top ups because they don't earn enough to live on. At least they are not unemployed though, so alls well that ends well eh?
Edited by disgruntled porker, Oct 15 2014, 05:14 PM.
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 16 2014, 08:27 AM Post #9 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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The problem is, he promised that it would all be done by know. You are giving someone "his due" for admitting his failure? A bit like paying bankers massive bonuses for cocking up. |
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| Steve K | Oct 16 2014, 08:33 AM Post #10 |
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Once and future cynic
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So what promises did 'he' make on unemployment then? |
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| papasmurf | Oct 16 2014, 08:45 AM Post #11 |
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Well he did promise to get 1 million people off of Incapacity Benefit/Employment Support Allowance into work. That seems to have failed:- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/363793/stats-summary-oct14-final.pdf Chart page 4
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| somersetli | Oct 16 2014, 09:04 AM Post #12 |
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somersetli
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Which is why it would be foolish to change horses at the next GE |
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| Steve K | Oct 16 2014, 09:15 AM Post #13 |
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Once and future cynic
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Can't recall that promise, can't find such in either the manifesto or coalition agreement. Any reference? |
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| papasmurf | Oct 16 2014, 09:24 AM Post #14 |
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It was nearly a daily statement in the run up to the 2010 election. |
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| Steve K | Oct 16 2014, 09:29 AM Post #15 |
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Once and future cynic
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Link please. I can find where they promised to take people off benefits and into work but not a promise as big, or as specific. And they have taken people off benefits into work. Can question how but achieved it was. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 16 2014, 09:38 AM Post #16 |
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It was a major part of the 2010 manifesto and the election campaign, and afterwards. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8280483.12_000_Bradford_incapacity_benefit_claimants_face_medical_tests/ Mr Duncan Smith said: “I intend to move 1.5 million off incapacity benefit by 2014. We will do everything to help people back into work, to have retraining and help with interviews. |
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| Steve K | Oct 16 2014, 09:56 AM Post #17 |
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Once and future cynic
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Oh for goodness sake, is truth always the first casualty when you post PS? 1. That promise is not in their manifesto 2. it is not in the coalition agreement either 3. that quote quite clearly says "I intend" so is not a promise 4. that quote does not commit to have any number into work 5. that quote is July 2010 and even the educationally subnormal know that is after an election in May 2010 So all in all PS you've been caught out making a false accusation - yet again. So tiresome. |
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 16 2014, 09:59 AM Post #18 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Didn't he mention something about how long it would take to clear the national debt a couple of times? |
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| Steve K | Oct 16 2014, 10:02 AM Post #19 |
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Once and future cynic
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Nope, not at all He promised to cut the deficit and yes he's struggling to meet his indications on that |
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| RJD | Oct 16 2014, 11:29 AM Post #20 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I wish someone would. Based on current analysis of plans and statements it looks like the Tories think they can get the national debt down to ~40% of GDP by around 2030 and estimates for Labour show that they are targeting sometime after 2070. The Tory estimates are unrealistic as we have something of a recession on average every 8 years and they have not factored for such. I do not know about the two Eds maybe they know how to rid us of the boom and bust experienced across all economies? Perhaps a Labour Tribalist will tell us where the Magic Wand is kept? The reality is that the correction cannot be avoided, it can be delayed and Osborne did that, it can be made even more expensive and Osborne certainly has achieved that one, but it is inevitable and we cannot carry this level of national debt in perpetuity and expect our grandchildren to pay for our selfish largesse. The national debt really is the big bull elephant in the room that politicians wish would go away or hide itself. Anyone prepared to proclaim that Labour will solve this problem and at the same time expect to pass a sanity test? |
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| Affa | Oct 16 2014, 12:23 PM Post #21 |
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It's isn't a magic wand, it is a treasure chest! I know this goes against ALL the rhetoric, what we read in the press, and hear across every nation, but, and I do emphasise it - We Are Not Broke. There is plenty of money lying about ~(in fact Investors are desperate to invest but shy of instability and the Bankers themselves - Confidence isn't there). Of course there would not be this brake on the global economy if there was not such an unhealthy disparity, a massive wealth gap. |
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| AndyK | Oct 16 2014, 12:25 PM Post #22 |
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Until they all have subsidy free jobs its a complete load of nonsense. Every new job is costing us money, its not supposed to work like that. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 16 2014, 12:39 PM Post #23 |
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Quite JSA is now only 2% of the benefits bill, tiny in comparison to in work benefits. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 16 2014, 04:15 PM Post #24 |
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I am giving him his due for plain speaking and telling it as it is |
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 16 2014, 06:44 PM Post #25 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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I don't think anyone is silly enough to claim they have a magic wand. But, lets face it, any economist worth his salt knew that Osbornes predictions were pie in the sky. You yourself know that the Tory estimates are unrealistic. when you speak of our grandchildren paying for our largesse, do you mean paying for the bankers greed? Ok, private individuals biting off more than they can chew was part of the problem, but the system which allowed them to do it were far more responsible. Regarding boom and bust, I believe that it is impossible to eliminate. It is like the ebb and flow of the tides. It is like the respiratory system of any economy. Breath in, breath out. If equillibrium was ever attained, someone would always upset the balance by trying to extract just a little more and thus set the see-saw in motion once again. Basic human nature ensures the continuation of boom and bust. Individuals lives work on boom and bust, so what chance to have a national economy that doesn't? |
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| Affa | Oct 16 2014, 07:17 PM Post #26 |
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In 2010 it was A Darling and Gordon Brown "telling it as it is"(was). There was no kudos then? It was the opposition that were saying, "not deep enough, not quick enough, we will spare our Grandchildren these debts, we will save the AAA rating". Debts that have increased (and our great-grandchildren will suffer at this rate), at interest rates that have increased due to the loss of the AAA rating, and what was not quick enough would be reason to celebrate if it ever comes to fruition. I do not call the Conservative party the party of Doom & Gloom for for nothing, for no reason, but when their optimism does show it is invariably false. Edited by Affa, Oct 16 2014, 07:20 PM.
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| Stan Still | Oct 16 2014, 07:47 PM Post #27 |
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Some people see a glass half empty, some see it as half full, and yes we need to pay our debts off quicker |
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| C-too | Oct 16 2014, 08:09 PM Post #28 |
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We certainly don't have an international financial meltdown/bust every 8 years.
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| papasmurf | Oct 16 2014, 08:24 PM Post #29 |
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Looking at the panic in the markets today, personally I would not put a bet on that. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/16/markets-global-idUKL6N0SB1S620141016 GLOBAL MARKETS-Europe falls again as global rout resumes Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:52pm BST * European shares, periphery euro bonds slump for second day. * U.S. data awaited as U.S. Treasuries nudge 2 percent * Dollar steadies, commodities take another step lower * Euro skids 11 month low vs yen, gold climbs By Marc Jones LONDON, Oct 16 (Reuters) - World markets tumbled for a second day on Thursday, hurt by concerns about the health of world economy and fears that Europe's debt crisis was waking up from a two-year siesta. European stock markets slumped, with London , Frankfurt and Paris down 1.8, 1.7 and 2.4 percent by midday and Greek shares down 3 percent for a loss of 17 percent in a week. Wall Street was also expected to open sharply lower, with futures prices signalling falls of 1.3 percent for the S&P 500 and 1.4 for the Dow Jones, as market volatility stayed at its highest since 2011 and investors braced for a flurry of economic data and earnings. Assets that depend on economic growth, such as shares and oil, have been hit by a raft of weak indicators from Europe at a time when other big economies including China, Japan and Brazil face their own hardships. These come as the U.S. Federal Reserve prepares to wind down later this month the asset purchase programme that has boosted markets over the past two years. Many observers doubt that new measures from the European Central Bank will make up for it. "Equity markets are going through a growth, inflation and liquidity scare right now and we are seeing some pretty savage equity price moves," said Morgan Stanley strategist Graham Secker. "Positioning and technical factors are driving near-term asset prices, so investors are effectively having to sell what they can." The euro skidded to a fresh 11-month low against the safe-haven yen while euro zone peripheral bonds from Greece to Portugal and Italy to Spain saw renewed heavy selling. The sell-off had echoes of the zenith of the euro debt crisis and left investors scurrying for traditional safe havens. German 10-year Bund yields -- which fall as demand for the bonds rises -- hit a fresh record low. U.S. Treasury yields were nudging 2 percent again and gold also sprang back up towards a one-month high. EURO ZONE ON ALERT As well as meek global growth, European markets have been rattled by fears that the fragile government in Greece, one of the countries at the centre of the region's debt crisis, could fall and leave an anti-bailout party to take the reins in Athens. Greek 10-year bond yields jumped 110 bps again to 8.94 on Thursday as their biggest sell-off since October 2008 continued. One of Greece's euro partners told Reuters late on Wednesday that Athens was changing its mind about quitting its EU/IMF aid programme next year, while a source said on Thursday the ECB would make it easier for Greek banks to tap its cheap funding. But the sell-off was not confined to Greece. Portuguese , Spanish and Italian 10-year yields rose too, jumping 25-45 bps to 3.75, 2.45 and 2.31 percent respectively. They all pulled further away from Germany's benchmark Bunds , which sank to new low yield of 0.75 percent. German Chancellor Angela Merkel told parliament in Berlin on Thursday that the euro zone must not drop its guard. "The crisis has not yet been permanently and sustainably overcome because the causes, regarding the set-up of the European economic and currency union and the situation of individual member states, haven't been eliminated," she said. GROWTH GLOOM In the currency markets, the U.S. dollar was back on a firmer footing after one of its sharpest drops of the year on Wednesday as the Japanese yen, which tends to be favoured during market turbulence also made gains. Only a month ago, markets <0#FF:> were thinking the Federal Reserve could raise U.S. rates as early as June next year, but after the stormy last few weeks traders have pushed back their expectations to the first quarter of 2016. Wall Street stocks have been slammed too. The benchmark S&P 500 and the MSCI 45-country world index have lost almost 10 percent in the last three weeks. U.S. stocks are still up 170 percent since the depths of the financial crisis in 2009 though. As U.S. trading began, the dollar's index was at 85.188, flat on the day. Oil and commodity prices were back under pressure, though. Brent crude, which has fallen more than 28 percent since June amid slow demand and signs that producers are not cutting output, hovered at a 4-year low of $82.93 a barrel as U.S. crude slumped to $80.45. Safe-haven gold, meanwhile, was within touching distance of a one-month high at $1,242, while growth-sensitive copper fell 1.25 percent after shedding 2.3 percent in the previous session, its biggest daily drop since March. (Additional reporting by Harpreet Bhal in London; editing by Anna Willard) |
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| Gnikkk | Oct 17 2014, 05:54 AM Post #30 |
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But, but, but,..., but we were screwed by the last government. What chance has a country that despite good news there will always be some who cannot move on from their childhood indoctrination. |
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| disgruntled porker | Oct 17 2014, 07:26 AM Post #31 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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It's the younger generations who fall for the Tory claptrap. Older people have seen the damage they are caple of inflicting. |
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| HIGHWAY | Oct 17 2014, 07:47 AM Post #32 |
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The young people vote for the Tory's how do you figure that out? That's like the SNP voters calling the older people up in Scotland traitor and cowards for wanting to stay part of the UK |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 17 2014, 08:05 AM Post #33 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I would have said it was the younger generations who fall for the SNP and Labour Claptrap myself ... In fact, most who do not have to foot the bill from the tax take from their wallets are far keener on claptrap than any who have borne that burden ... |
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| C-too | Oct 17 2014, 08:38 AM Post #34 |
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I thought the rich got richer under NL? |
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| Affa | Oct 17 2014, 08:44 AM Post #35 |
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They did! |
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| C-too | Oct 17 2014, 08:44 AM Post #36 |
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We were screwed by the Tory voting? so called financial experts in the international financial markets who were far more concerned with the thickness of their wallets than in the value of what they were dealing with. Blaming the last government is either a case of ignorance or pure political bias. |
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| C-too | Oct 17 2014, 08:47 AM Post #37 |
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So did millions of low income people, before the international financial meltdown that is. |
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| C-too | Oct 17 2014, 08:53 AM Post #38 |
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Think of my post as being in the past tense, which I should have made clear. We are in very different circumstances now but even then it is surely the knock-on effects of the 2008 meltdown. |
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| HIGHWAY | Oct 17 2014, 08:54 AM Post #39 |
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All goes back to Blair and Brown in charge,,that's when Britain went pear shaped |
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| C-too | Oct 17 2014, 09:08 AM Post #40 |
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And of course it all goes back to the misselling of subprime mortgages in the US, the toxic debts created when the system collapsed and the slipping into the international financial markets, via Wall Street, of those toxic debts. That is what has undermined the economies of all the Western countries, even the powerhouse German economy is badly affected. |
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