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| Unemployment below 2 millon | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 15 2014, 09:03 AM (1,919 Views) | |
| papasmurf | Oct 15 2014, 09:03 AM Post #1 |
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Unemployment below 2 million BUT:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29627831 However, the number of people classed as economically inactive, including students, long-term sick and those retiring early, increased by 113,000 in the quarter to more than nine million. The number of self-employed people dropped by 76,000 in the latest three-month period to 4.5 million, but the total is 279,000 higher than a year ago. And the number of employees in part-time jobs has reached a record high of 6.8 million. |
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| RJD | Oct 22 2014, 06:25 PM Post #161 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Note according to Fullfact during the period of great turmoil 1979 to 1997 we added ~20b of manufacturing gross value added to our GNP whereas subsequently during the period of boom 1997 to 2008, we saw ~£44b disappear. Yes we do need to rebalance our economy away from consumption towards greater production and more manufacturing, as it creates jobs for the unskilled would be welcome, but do not forget we earn a lot more from £10b of Financial Services than we earn from £10b of manufacturing. We need a balance in our economy and becoming reliant on low value added manufacturing which can be cloned in Asia would be foolish. |
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| RJD | Oct 22 2014, 06:30 PM Post #162 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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All this demonstrates was that Labour, like the Tories before and after them had failed in their duty to rebalance the economy away from having all its eggs in one basket. PV: Labour had 13 years in which to do something about this, and did precisely nothing. In fact they did worse than nothing - they let the FSS get away with murder. Reported in detail and not disputed even by Labour hierarchy. PV: And RJD is delusional if he thinks only Labour are addicted to splurging; the Tories are too, they just spend the money on those who already have more than enough. Not my claim only that the Tories are the lesser of the two evils. Anyway your last comment does not stand scrutiny as you have not defined "more than enough". I know that Labour now think that "more than enough" = £43,000 PA. Is that your Yardstick? |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 22 2014, 08:21 PM Post #163 |
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Upstanding Member
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If I couldn't live extremely comfortably on £43k a year I would consider myself so economically illiterate as to have my income managed by a trust for me. £43k/year is approx 3 times what I was earning at my highest paying job, and is approx 6x what I am earning currently. All The Best |
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| Affa | Oct 23 2014, 01:14 AM Post #164 |
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According to - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/ 'Comment Woe unto us for we don't make anything any more. We've given up on manufacturing and that's what ails the UK economy. We must therefore invest heavily in a renaissance of making things that we can drop on our feet and all will be right with the world. ............. There is, however, only one teensie tiny problem with the whole idea. It ain't true'. ![]() When the Service sector took off to become the major source of GDP manufacturing as a %age of GDP fell - this does not mean there was less manufacturing. ![]() What should also be noted is that it was under the Major government that manufacturing made a recovery -= post Maastricht and a huge increase in UK inward investment - Japan, USA, to access the now open (to us) Markets of Europe. Edited by Affa, Oct 23 2014, 01:18 AM.
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| C-too | Oct 23 2014, 07:38 AM Post #165 |
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Honourable Member
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Yes, overmanned nationalised industries closed with lucrative parts privatised, not a difficult outcome to obtain. BUT, we had 17 years of high/mass unemployment during that period. If that problem had been addressed at that time we would be in a different situation today.
2008 includes the meltdown when deficit and debt shot up. Brown began the rebalancing by investing in new apprenticeships, a practise continued by the present government. The idea we can sit back and continue to import so much of our required/wanted low technology(?) products from the likes of China is part of what got us into trouble in the first place. |
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| C-too | Oct 23 2014, 07:48 AM Post #166 |
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I have a feeling that the article has confused increased output, (widely recognised) with a growth of industries which I'm not aware of. I assume a growth of industries would have seen a large reduction in unemployment? |
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| RJD | Oct 23 2014, 10:58 AM Post #167 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Funny that the service sector employed more than manufacturing over 100 years ago and manufacturing in the UK as a portion of GDP went into rapid decline as long ago as 1965 a full 14 years before Thatcher became PM. Nothing above disproves the claims made by Fullfact. By the way although manufacturing employs proportionally less people it has increased volume per unit of labour, every year, which is not a claim that the Public Sector including the NHS can boast. |
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| Affa | Oct 23 2014, 11:32 AM Post #168 |
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Yeah; until we learn how to construct robots able to perform medical surgery on a production line basis, this unfortunate anomaly will continue. |
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| C-too | Oct 23 2014, 12:25 PM Post #169 |
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Honourable Member
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Are you suggesting we should become reliant upon the service sector again? Wasn't that part of the 'problem'? |
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| RJD | Oct 23 2014, 04:44 PM Post #170 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Not at all. But you have to be realistic and understand the difficulties of establishing new manufacturing plants in the UK. Today any major investment looking for hundreds of skilled operators and technicians would not be able to find them freely available in the market. Also the decision to build and expand manufacturing takes years. I am all for more manufacturing in our GDP, basically not to make money as there are better ways, but because it is sensible always to diversify our portfolio of wealth creating activities. |
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| C-too | Oct 23 2014, 05:16 PM Post #171 |
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Honourable Member
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Such rebalancing would create jobs and taxes with fewer people living off the state. |
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| RJD | Oct 24 2014, 09:33 PM Post #172 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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It would only create jobs if the Labour force could satisfy them. If not they would only create vacancies and that is the point. Even during the precedent recession industry could not find sufficient skilled people to meet demand. As we have recently seen low value added from low or no skills contributes little directly to the Exchequer. But what to do with all of these people? Claim they are unfit to work perhaps? |
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| papasmurf | Oct 24 2014, 09:49 PM Post #173 |
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The hard fact is RJD, far too many companies relied for decades on poaching skilled workers from other companies. That was all going to come to a grinding halt eventually, and it did. They will have start training people again. (Plus they are not going to tempt me or anyone else out of retirement back into work on the crap wages being paid currently.) |
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| Tigger | Oct 24 2014, 09:54 PM Post #174 |
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We enforce deflation and stop propping up asset prices that benefit the better off, those who do productive work and hold down jobs can no longer afford the present corrupt and failing set up, Labour moved aspiration further up the pay scale and the Tories have virtually extinguished it. |
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| C-too | Oct 25 2014, 07:26 AM Post #175 |
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Honourable Member
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You could train them and employ them. Training would not take that long after all we are not talking highly skilled jobs. Once the ball is rolling we could reintroduce the apprentice schemes that were blighted in the 1980s. It would reduce imports, pay taxes, reduce the claiment 'culture' and make for happier families. Other possible knock-on effects would be a reduction in crime and fewer people in prison. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 07:28 AM Post #176 |
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Wrong there are over a million over the retirement age that are still working full time because they want to, I came out of semi retirement because the wages offered for my skills is excellent. I know several people that work part time that are in their late 60's and early 70's because they want to not need to, wife and I were in B&Q this week a couple we know well both elderly over 65 were working away and enjoying being out and meeting people. The wife was meeting and greeting her husband is a former builder both assisting customers, they do a few hours a day three times a week more if they want to which they do in the winter, they may not earn a fortune NMW but that does not bother them at all, keeping active and knowing they are needed is what they enjoy and a bonus to them You may have stopped working several years ago before you finally reached state pension age but there are many of us who do not want to sit at home bored silly and feeling useless that is a certain way to fall off the perch too early, keeping active keeps you young and what better way than being paid for it as well. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 08:50 AM Post #177 |
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Robots are already used very frequently for surgery they still need human guidance but the surgeon does not need to be physically present he or she can be on the other side of the world to guide it, one day who knows what will be developed next |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 08:55 AM Post #178 |
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Not at the sort of jobs I am commenting about. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 09:03 AM Post #179 |
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As you have not been in the work place for quite some time are you really qualified to make any comment about the present day work place at all?, you are not speaking from hands on personal up to date experience but hearsay and the anecdotal opinions of others. As I have said I know people well over the state retirement age and still working full time and some that my eldest works alongside have years and years of experience and the skills acquired over those years to be become some of the best surgeons and medical consultants in the UK. Plus you have no idea what work that million and more actually do, one of my brother in laws is one hell of an engineer and still working at 67 and no thought of stopping just yet Edited by Stan Still, Oct 25 2014, 09:06 AM.
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 09:06 AM Post #180 |
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When it comes to manufacturing yes I am. It is still a case of same excrement different day for skilled shop floor workers. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 09:17 AM Post #181 |
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Pay is reflected by the state of the economy, profit margins and the availability of jobs something many a barrack room lawyer has never ever worked out |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 09:22 AM Post #182 |
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I don't know any barrack room lawyers, so you have the advantage of me. If there are "skills shortages" the pay for those skills should be going up, not staying static for over a decade. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 09:34 AM Post #183 |
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I agree skills should be rewarded but that can only happen if what is being produced has a good outlet and can be sold at a profit whilst still remaining competitive in a global market, and can keep producing up to date products well into the future, without sustainable profit no wages no jobs. If you have never met a barrack room lawyer you must never have been in any workplace at all every workplace has at least one canteen hero that talks a good job but has never done one, the UK was awash with them in the 60's 70's and 80's they helped bring this country to its knees |
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| Tigger | Oct 25 2014, 09:55 AM Post #184 |
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How many carry on working because they got ripped off on their pensions and simply cannot afford to retire, can you answer that one for us? Sitting at a desk for a few hours a day isn't particularly taxing physically although you'd be more than welcome to three days a week on one of my projects, I expect by Friday you'd barely be able to walk. For many working beyond retirement age is simply not possible. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 09:56 AM Post #185 |
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You appear to be describing most of the management I had the misfortune to work for. |
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| Tigger | Oct 25 2014, 10:00 AM Post #186 |
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True,but it is not the case in some parts of the economy, sadly for the rest of us this government has decided to prop up house and asset prices and keeps much of the City on life support. You may have noticed some cracks appearing in this ultimately foolish policy that is a perversion of true capitalism. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 10:01 AM Post #187 |
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I wonder what they would say of you |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 10:08 AM Post #188 |
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Given I was usually "The Muggins" who they asked at end of a shift to do a double shift to get them out of the clarts, because I was the only one with a sufficient breadth of skills to make something urgently or the production would stop. I suspect they had a higher opinion of me that you and others do, because your read things into my contributions that are not there. (I have also despite being a union member from age 17 never been out on strike. I have never paid the political levy either.) |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 10:19 AM Post #189 |
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I do not sit behind a desk a day I am out and about most days, true I am no longer able to do heavy physical work as I once did but having retrained more than once I have a multitude of skills that meant I was head hunted for my present work that I really enjoy and paid rather well. As for pensions you are asking a question that even you do not know the answerer to, yes some pension funds have folded or are not as good as predicted all pension funds are a gamble life is a gamble the only certainties are death and taxes, plus Brown raided the pensions funds and did lots of damage, some estimate that he cost the UK over 100 billion. Some are having to work longer because they cannot afford to retire that is true, many like me continue to do so because we want to not have to. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 10:24 AM Post #190 |
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If I had ever worked with you then I would be able to give an opinion on you as a worker as you would be able to do of me , however in here you have formed my opinion on you and you do not need me to tell you what that is. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 10:28 AM Post #191 |
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There are several people on this forum you being one of them, I would not dare express my opinion of, or I would be banned. |
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| Affa | Oct 25 2014, 11:23 AM Post #192 |
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Sheesh ....... Please get real people. There's something very wrong with a society that rewards Estate agents, lawyers, and traders (middle men), more than it values engineers. The parasites draining the blood out of the economy are not those on unemployment benefits, but those that should be. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 25 2014, 11:25 AM Post #193 |
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Hear hear. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 11:27 AM Post #194 |
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Quite, with several cabinet ministers needing a P45 as a matter of urgency. |
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| Marconi | Oct 25 2014, 11:53 AM Post #195 |
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I think there is some mutual respect between the two of you, although it's hard to detect it here. But I do come here to learn from older experienced people who have been there, done it. Regardless of their political leanings. So keep the experiences coming. As for me, I would like to see manufacturing return because it gives people at all levels of abilities some prospects. Even if not much goes to the Exchequer, the social cost savings is priceless. Note: I did said older, not old.
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| Marconi | Oct 25 2014, 11:57 AM Post #196 |
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| papasmurf | Oct 25 2014, 11:58 AM Post #197 |
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Well I am 66 years old, and from a poor rural background. As for manufacturing returning whilst the "spare" electricity generation capacity is only 4%, it can't. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 25 2014, 12:08 PM Post #198 |
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Nonsense. If the government wanted to create an environment for industry it could create more capacity...and it could create more engineers. You told us that it would not be worthwhile training skilled workers because there are no jobs for them a while back. Too much creedence and respect is given to old folk . If you want to know something ask a 30 year old..... not his dad or grandad |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 12:20 PM Post #199 |
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I know it is what I come to expect from those of the left they pretend to care about people but are more right wing in their attitude than extreme right wingers,especially to those that dare to disagree with them or prove them wrong at every twist and turn and spin they make. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 25 2014, 12:26 PM Post #200 |
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Footballers, top sportsmen and women actors and the other Luvvies in general are all paid more that most surgeons, scientists, structural designers, inventors, etc etc, by the way I am a trained engineer served my time and moved on to pastures new to earn more, hated being stuck in a factory all day every day. |
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