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Tigger
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Oct 21 2014, 05:47 PM
Post #81
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- RJD
- Oct 21 2014, 11:13 AM
- Tigger
- Oct 20 2014, 07:09 PM
- RJD
- Oct 19 2014, 06:28 AM
Seems we did make a big mistake in not slashing the deficit within 5 years, now we have growth based on low incomes of those taken out of taxation. So either borrowing continues to rise and/or taxes increase or Slasher is allowed to get on with the job. Why did anyone believe that growth would be based on higher value added? Not as if our surpluses of Labour all have technology degrees is it, more like difficulties with plain English. Note industry has been struggling since before 2008 to fill jobs technologists.
Predictably pathetic putrid puerile piss poor pensioner piffle. We need deflation me old mucker, then we really will be all in it together.The government has spent billions on ensuring the wealthiest have not paid for their gross errors, in plain English they have used taxpayers money to keep asset prices elevated, the trouble is wages are in real terms lower now than in 2008, so the wares the better off would like to flog us, ie property, financial scams and and of course that old favourite debt, are no longer affordable! Solution, remove props supporting this crock of brown stuff and let real market forces have their way, you know it makes sense.
Funny that everything I said is true and fully reported in the public domain whilst yours is just conjecture. Best give up on the satire mags and start informing yourself. Who are these so called wealthy people who have made gross errors to which you allude? Name one and the error. Sadly for you I'm familiar with the concept of lying by omission. Better luck next time.
Now as that stone you live under seems to have gotten heavier let me set you straight on the last bit. Once upon a time, 2008 actually, lots of people in a big City called London made a bit of a mess of their sums but luckily for them big nanny was on hand with her ample bosom to nurture them back to health, she rescued several banks and prevented an almost certain asset and housing crash, a fair few of these people if you didn't know already would almost certainly be visiting some of those food banks you seem to know next to nothing about as well. Unfortunately we do not have proper capitalism these days but a weak kneed version that is more accurately termed corporatism, think of it as socialism for big business and you won't go to far wrong.
And bite your lip and get that gas leak fixed I suspect it's making you a bit light headed, although I suspect the dumb insolence far pre dates it.
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C-too
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Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
Post #82
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- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
- jaguar
- Oct 20 2014, 06:48 PM
"In England the Conservative/LibDem coalition has increased investment in our NHS and treated more patients and performed well.
https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour. The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
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Stan Still
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Oct 21 2014, 07:01 PM
Post #83
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- Rich
- Oct 21 2014, 12:39 AM
"n comparison with, for example, the USA where to get the highest quality of health care one would need to go private, in countries like the UK and France the taxpayer funded health care certainly provides a far greater breadth of health care and in many sectors a level of excellence which the private sector would not even attempt to match."
I fully agree, but for that system to work it should only apply to the taxpayers of this country and those that have contributed into it, some of them for a whole working life, and all they ask for is treatment when needed, after all, that is what insurance is all about. The NHS does discriminate when it comes to age the fact that you may have like many of the elderly of today that have paid in all their lives some since it inception have now found out the help that many thought they had paid for is not there.
It depends how much it will cost the NHS to treat or help you, as they say its a post code lottery on what help you get or not these days from the NHS.
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Affa
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Oct 21 2014, 09:08 PM
Post #84
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- Major Sinic
- Oct 21 2014, 12:06 PM
- Affa
- Oct 21 2014, 11:46 AM
- Major Sinic
- Oct 21 2014, 08:29 AM
I can not see how the gap between the increasing cost of providing an ever more effective and wide rangeing national health service and a lack of financial resource can continue without reform.
Currently less than 9% of GDP ........ many countries are paying more than that, the US twice as much. There is some leeway, yet.but the trending is worrisome ........
Yes but the point is that over half the health care expense in the USA is privately funded. This is comparing apples with pears.
It is comparing alternative 'systems' for health care provision, not fruit. Even then it cannot be a balanced comparison, because there are many other variables. But as we are looking at what is affordable (not what is the desired quality of service) such comparisons as made have as much relevance as can be achieved.
I have agreed with you, but am now seeing your mini-protest as one that is trying to avoid drawing the obvious correct conclusion - that these frequent Political (politicised) criticisms of the NHS are disingenuous.
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Rich
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Oct 21 2014, 09:28 PM
Post #85
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- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 05:04 PM
Major has called it right the NHS cannot continue in its present form it has to be restructured and run more efficiently in order for it to survive, as I have always said it needs running better
And no that does not mean privatised
I have mentioned before Stan that the NHS is awash with money, the problem is that the monies available are not being used in a cost effective manner and are being spent on all sorts of unnecessary things, believe me, I have worked in hospitals for the last 20 years and I cringe at the wastage I see, give the purses back to the matrons!!!.
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Tytoalba
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Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
Post #86
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- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
- jaguar
- Oct 20 2014, 06:48 PM
"In England the Conservative/LibDem coalition has increased investment in our NHS and treated more patients and performed well.
https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour.
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges. 20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence.
What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better.
The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results.
I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject.
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Deleted User
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Oct 21 2014, 10:54 PM
Post #87
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Deleted User
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- Affa
- Oct 21 2014, 09:08 PM
- Major Sinic
- Oct 21 2014, 12:06 PM
- Affa
- Oct 21 2014, 11:46 AM
- Major Sinic
- Oct 21 2014, 08:29 AM
I can not see how the gap between the increasing cost of providing an ever more effective and wide rangeing national health service and a lack of financial resource can continue without reform.
Currently less than 9% of GDP ........ many countries are paying more than that, the US twice as much. There is some leeway, yet.but the trending is worrisome ........
Yes but the point is that over half the health care expense in the USA is privately funded. This is comparing apples with pears.
It is comparing alternative 'systems' for health care provision, not fruit. Even then it cannot be a balanced comparison, because there are many other variables. But as we are looking at what is affordable (not what is the desired quality of service) such comparisons as made have as much relevance as can be achieved. I have agreed with you, but am now seeing your mini-protest as one that is trying to avoid drawing the obvious correct conclusion - that these frequent Political (politicised) criticisms of the NHS are disingenuous. I don't in all honesty understand the thinking behind your rather peculiar response. It appears to have completely missed the principles behind my post. I am totally committed to the continued maintenance of an effective NHS. To that I would add that while I don't make ideological demands about the involvement, or otherwise, of the private sector within the NHS as do so many on the left, I would support entirely its direction and control remaining firmly within the public sector.
Unless there is a fundamental review of the NHS in terms of what services it provides, to who and within what parameters along with its methods of funding, it will cease to be able to provide a broadly balanced public health service and that would be a national tragedy. If it were simply a matter of maintaining contribution at a level in real terms then I have little doubt that fiddling round the edges may well work for a decade or so. But this is not the case. It is a beast, albeit a generally benelovent one, which has an appetite that can not be appeased and its hunger will grow beyond the point when the taxpayer can afford to feed it.
Until there is agreement on that point, there is little to be gained by examining strategy. Certainly, and I say this as a Tory, the Coalition reforms are unlikely to achieve any meaningful progresss; it is simply an exercise in rearranging the deckchairs on Titanic's deck.
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Affa
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Oct 22 2014, 12:18 AM
Post #88
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- Major Sinic
- Oct 21 2014, 10:54 PM
I don't in all honesty understand the thinking behind your rather peculiar response.
It will always be possible to find things not right with the NHS, with any system. Frightening press reports of mistakes are of course acceptable, they alert the public, and hold the service to account. What is wrong imo is the use of such reports to try to usher in reforms that do not in any way address the issues raised by these highlighted cases. eg, if nurses leave a patient in soiled underwear, or neglect to provide water for a bed bound patient, the problem is one of supervision and standards - easily put right without any reforms or money being spent.
I hate this sort of debating where I am forced to explain what should be obvious ...... newspapers print these stories to get public opinion on the side of those who passionately declare they want to completely overall the NHS and bring in the private sector to advise on how.
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Rich
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Oct 22 2014, 01:14 AM
Post #89
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- Tytoalba
- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour.
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject.
I agree with you in the most part of your post Tyto, but it must be remembered, that people over the age of 60+ have not volunteered their NHI (as it was then) it was taken at source from their wages as a form of insurance against ill health and insurances should be redeemable when required, as it is nowadays, one has the opportunity if financially able to, to take out a private health insurance also, .....not all the old codgers can do that and neither should they have to after slogging for 50 odd years to keep this country going especially through a most truamatic period of war..............what do I know, I am only a sprog who has had it easy thanks to those poor folks.
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C-too
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Oct 22 2014, 07:41 AM
Post #90
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- Tytoalba
- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour.
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject. The Welsh NHS is run by Welsh Labour politicians. It is run independently from the English NHS, it is your own political bias that is attempting to confuse the two.
Privatisations brings its own problems. It is no coincidence that countries with a private health system have a more costly health system. Insurance costs are increasing due to the claim culture, many claims being costly and wrong. Some doctors in the USA are leaving the system purely because of the increase in insurance costs.
Yes lets have the system that gives the best results, but not a two tier system that pampers the rich and abuses the less well off.
The NHS is one of the lower cost health systems amongst the developed countries, with a lower cost than the likes of France and Germany. The bad publicity given to the NHS has more to do with monied people wanting private health than the actuality of the NHS.
BEFORE we contemplate an increase in private health we need to see proof of an increasingly mixed health system that can GUARANTEE a equitable, better and cheeper system than we already have. (Personally I do not think that would be possible).
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Deleted User
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Oct 22 2014, 03:53 PM
Post #91
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Deleted User
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- Tytoalba
- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour.
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject. I agree entirely.
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Stan Still
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Oct 22 2014, 04:15 PM
Post #92
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- Rich
- Oct 21 2014, 09:28 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 05:04 PM
Major has called it right the NHS cannot continue in its present form it has to be restructured and run more efficiently in order for it to survive, as I have always said it needs running better
And no that does not mean privatised
I have mentioned before Stan that the NHS is awash with money, the problem is that the monies available are not being used in a cost effective manner and are being spent on all sorts of unnecessary things, believe me, I have worked in hospitals for the last 20 years and I cringe at the wastage I see, give the purses back to the matrons!!!. They need to do something along those lines and be quick about it, yes everyone I know who has worked in the NHS or still is says the same as you
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Stan Still
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Oct 22 2014, 04:24 PM
Post #93
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- Tytoalba
- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
- Affa
- Oct 20 2014, 08:37 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep https://fullfact.org/articles/NHS_budget_health_spending_statistics-28697But don't let mention waiting lists or waiting times, eh. Great when you do more cataract operations, decide to include stitching a stanley knife wound (health assistant - nurse), taking off a plaster cast, as 'surgery'. just to fiddle the figures. There are hundreds of theatre operations cancelled each week - because there is no bed available on the ward (bed shortage = shortage of nurses).
There are lots of operation cancelled each day due to patients not turning up and entire operations rotas thrown out of sync, which means surgeons and staff are not where they are supposed to be at the right time and right place. As for stitching up a cut you don't need a consultant surgeon to do that, Labour promised to end mixed wards they are still with us. As for fiddling figures and blocking serious investigations into avoidable deaths, lack of treatment lack of funding, whistle blowers sacked, chaos etc until after the GE, then again I suggest you look at the NHS in Wales over the last 15 years under Labour.
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject. As I understand it the NHS in Wales to a lesser degree than it once was still receives some funding from Westminster.
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Tytoalba
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Oct 22 2014, 05:35 PM
Post #94
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- Stan Still
- Oct 22 2014, 04:24 PM
- Tytoalba
- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject.
As I understand it the NHS in Wales to a lesser degree than it once was still receives some funding from Westminster. I think the NHS in Wales would improve dramatically if they got rid of the costly assembly, along with its costly members, another layer of government, and put the money saved into it
On the matter of privatisation, it should be remembered that nearly all new drugs, and the equiptment bought for the NHS and used within it, along with Xray equiptment and scanners and all the other very expesive equiptment are all developed, constructed and obtained from private companies. They seem to be pretty good at it and no one seems to be opposed to it either. Laundry is tendered out along with some feeding services.
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C-too
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Oct 22 2014, 05:45 PM
Post #95
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- Major Sinic
- Oct 22 2014, 03:53 PM
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- Oct 21 2014, 10:22 PM
- C-too
- Oct 21 2014, 06:12 PM
- Stan Still
- Oct 21 2014, 04:55 PM
The Welsh are not English and their health system is very different to the English system under Labour. You are suggesting we compare apples with oranges.
20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject.
I agree entirely. Yes, lets have what gives the best results, but don't let us jump out of the frying pan into the fire. After all our 'frying pan' is an awful lot more able and equitable than many other health systems.
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C-too
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Oct 22 2014, 05:50 PM
Post #96
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20% of the population of Wales are English, and the Welsh assembly Government is run by the Labour party. Wales is not a seperate country it is a Principality of England meaning it is part of England.. Only 3% 0f the population want indipendence. What we all seem to agree on, whether we treat the issue of the NHS as one of politics, with our own partisan political loyalties and prejudices, or whether we are objective and see the problem for what it is, that is failings in the service, and that something needs to be done to improve it and to maintain it as free at the point of need as far as possible . I dont think it matters if it is privatised in some respects, or it is totally in the hands of the state, as long as it is efficiently run , improves results, gives the service we desire at equivalent cost or better. The major issues are cost, quality of service, and accesibility with cost being to the fore, It is not about privatisation or a totally nationalised service. Lets have what gives the best results. I think we all know that it needs more funds, and whether that is entirly from the public purse or part self funded like dentisty or for somethings, not others, really is the subject that needs adressing. It is not a sacred cow. or a political football for party gain, so lets try to be open minded on the subject.
As I understand it the NHS in Wales to a lesser degree than it once was still receives some funding from Westminster.
I think the NHS in Wales would improve dramatically if they got rid of the costly assembly, along with its costly members, another layer of government, and put the money saved into it On the matter of privatisation, it should be remembered that nearly all new drugs, and the equiptment bought for the NHS and used within it, along with Xray equiptment and scanners and all the other very expesive equiptment are all developed, constructed and obtained from private companies. They seem to be pretty good at it and no one seems to be opposed to it either. Laundry is tendered out along with some feeding services. None of which proves some privatisation would be an improvement.
An awful lot of privatisations over the last 30 years have not proved better for the people, but they have seen huge profits going to foreign owners and foreign shareholders in other countries.
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RJD
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Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
Post #97
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
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Tigger
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Oct 22 2014, 09:31 PM
Post #98
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France. And if I want to know what you think I'll get a lobotomy.
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Tytoalba
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Oct 22 2014, 10:08 PM
Post #99
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As I understand it the NHS in Wales to a lesser degree than it once was still receives some funding from Westminster.
I think the NHS in Wales would improve dramatically if they got rid of the costly assembly, along with its costly members, another layer of government, and put the money saved into it On the matter of privatisation, it should be remembered that nearly all new drugs, and the equiptment bought for the NHS and used within it, along with Xray equiptment and scanners and all the other very expesive equiptment are all developed, constructed and obtained from private companies. They seem to be pretty good at it and no one seems to be opposed to it either. Laundry is tendered out along with some feeding services.
None of which proves some privatisation would be an improvement. An awful lot of privatisations over the last 30 years have not proved better for the people, but they have seen huge profits going to foreign owners and foreign shareholders in other countries. Now is your GPs surgery nationalised, or is it privatised, and are you generally satisfied with its services.?
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Rich
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Oct 23 2014, 12:28 AM
Post #100
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I think the NHS in Wales would improve dramatically if they got rid of the costly assembly, along with its costly members, another layer of government, and put the money saved into it On the matter of privatisation, it should be remembered that nearly all new drugs, and the equiptment bought for the NHS and used within it, along with Xray equiptment and scanners and all the other very expesive equiptment are all developed, constructed and obtained from private companies. They seem to be pretty good at it and no one seems to be opposed to it either. Laundry is tendered out along with some feeding services.
None of which proves some privatisation would be an improvement. An awful lot of privatisations over the last 30 years have not proved better for the people, but they have seen huge profits going to foreign owners and foreign shareholders in other countries.
Now is your GPs surgery nationalised, or is it privatised, and are you generally satisfied with its services.?
Sad to say Tyto, this is where my wife works as a manager.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/stop-practice-closures/practice-hands-contract-back-after-four-partners-are-forced-to-resign/20007896.article#.VEhK9fnF9U8
PS.....Read the other bits, especially about GP's getting £100.00 per hour for working extra hours......I despair.
Edited by Rich, Oct 23 2014, 12:35 AM.
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RJD
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Oct 23 2014, 11:18 AM
Post #101
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
And if I want to know what you think I'll get a lobotomy. Coming from the self proclaimed businessman who did not even know that a VAT threshold existed I think it best just to ignore your increasingly silly and extremely juvenile remarks. Tig. you really do take the biscuit and you might be better off, we certainly would be, if you spent more time with your fellow cowboy Plumbers fixing bits n pieces on roofs, with your shared pair of Mole-grips as you provide little of political interest, but reveal a great deal about your own shortcomings. So be a good boy, get up the ladder and leave the grownups in peace.
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C-too
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Oct 23 2014, 02:40 PM
Post #102
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- Oct 22 2014, 04:24 PM
I think the NHS in Wales would improve dramatically if they got rid of the costly assembly, along with its costly members, another layer of government, and put the money saved into it On the matter of privatisation, it should be remembered that nearly all new drugs, and the equiptment bought for the NHS and used within it, along with Xray equiptment and scanners and all the other very expesive equiptment are all developed, constructed and obtained from private companies. They seem to be pretty good at it and no one seems to be opposed to it either. Laundry is tendered out along with some feeding services.
None of which proves some privatisation would be an improvement. An awful lot of privatisations over the last 30 years have not proved better for the people, but they have seen huge profits going to foreign owners and foreign shareholders in other countries.
Now is your GPs surgery nationalised, or is it privatised, and are you generally satisfied with its services.? It's part of the NHS.
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C-too
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Oct 23 2014, 02:41 PM
Post #103
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France. Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
Edited by C-too, Oct 23 2014, 02:43 PM.
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Affa
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Oct 23 2014, 03:16 PM
Post #104
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- Oct 23 2014, 02:41 PM
Your madly biased post which is best ignored.
I was at college with a guy I thought was from another planet. In his case it was his intelligence, an high IQ, his logic Spock like, and ideas unfathomable (by me). He did seem completely alien ......... I feel much the same reading RJD. Only I do know there is a difference between being ingenious and disingenuous. One can of course be both, at the same time! I can name one or two, quite few, that are.
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jaguar
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Oct 23 2014, 04:03 PM
Post #105
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP
Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit:
'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer.
Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die.
Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14).
Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored.
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RJD
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Oct 23 2014, 04:28 PM
Post #106
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If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored. Of course you wish to ignore it as you are unable to refute it. Are you claiming that Milliband did not praise Hollande or the Welsh NHS and suggest these were models for the future? Are you claiming that Milliband does not have his eye on individual wealth? I am sure you wish to distance yourself from these, but they have a basis in truth. Milliband has said that if your property is worth £2m and you have an income of £43,000 PA then you are in his sights for some extra taxes. How long before the threshold drops below the £2m? Since when is anyone earning £43,0000 PA considered to be rich? It would also be nice to hear from the conduit to Labour HQ whether there is any truth in the rumour that if and when in Gov. they intend to increase taxes on employment again. Now we know that such taxes come out of the pocket of the employee so how does this square with wealth redistribution and job creation?
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RJD
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Oct 23 2014, 04:31 PM
Post #107
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Your madly biased post which is best ignored.
I was at college with a guy I thought was from another planet. In his case it was his intelligence, an high IQ, his logic Spock like, and ideas unfathomable (by me). He did seem completely alien ......... I feel much the same reading RJD. Only I do know there is a difference between being ingenious and disingenuous. One can of course be both, at the same time! I can name one or two, quite few, that are. Clearly another poster who does not bother to understand the Labour messages. Easy to claim others are stupid or from another Planet, the Usuals do this every day, but refute what is in the public domain, never, why bother when juvenile insults will suffice. Best you read up a little.
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RJD
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Oct 23 2014, 04:38 PM
Post #108
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- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit: 'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer. Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die. Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14). Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored. For many, perhaps the majority, such assets were paid for from taxed income with Stamp Duty Taxes in addition. There is no doubt about it that this policy appeals only to the base instincts of the spite n envy brigade, but as they are riddled with such, or is it addled, they cannot see through their red mist. One thing is for sure a lot of properties that were once in the £2m to £2.5m bracket are likely to become worth £1.95m. As most of these are in London one could claim it to be a Tax on Londoners, whatever happened to that all in it together thingy?
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Deleted User
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Oct 23 2014, 05:20 PM
Post #109
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Claire Reynolds wow her suggestions for mansion tax in the North have shocked me, that is madness.
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C-too
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Oct 23 2014, 05:31 PM
Post #110
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- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
Of course you wish to ignore it as you are unable to refute it. Are you claiming that Milliband did not praise Hollande or the Welsh NHS and suggest these were models for the future? Are you claiming that Milliband does not have his eye on individual wealth? I am sure you wish to distance yourself from these, but they have a basis in truth. Milliband has said that if your property is worth £2m and you have an income of £43,000 PA then you are in his sights for some extra taxes. How long before the threshold drops below the £2m? Since when is anyone earning £43,0000 PA considered to be rich? It would also be nice to hear from the conduit to Labour HQ whether there is any truth in the rumour that if and when in Gov. they intend to increase taxes on employment again. Now we know that such taxes come out of the pocket of the employee so how does this square with wealth redistribution and job creation? We have covered the Miliband French Idea before and your claim does not compute. Yes I do dispute YOUR interpretation of what Miliband said. Perhaps you can produce his comments on the Welsh NHS? Or is it a case of biased newspaper insinuations?
Yes Miliband has his eyes on some of greater individual wealth, just as the Tories are fixated on the low paid who are now some £300 per annum worse off than in 2008.
Anyone earning £43,000 PLUS a year and living in a £2m pound house would I believe consider themselves to be rich.
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Affa
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Oct 23 2014, 05:37 PM
Post #111
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Anyone earning £43,000 PLUS a year and living in a £2m pound house would I believe consider themselves to be rich.
£43k pa is not what I consider being rich - having £2ml in equity, might just do it though.
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johnofgwent
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Oct 23 2014, 06:02 PM
Post #112
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- Oct 22 2014, 07:41 AM
The Welsh NHS is run by Welsh Labour politicians.
And don't we bloody know it.
My LABOUR MP was washing her hands of all health matters within hours of getting elected as one of Blair's babes on the grounds that health was a devolved matter and therefore nothing to do with her. Letters sent to the health minister or my AM are returned with one line throwaways blaming the westminster government for starving wales of funds.
Naturally I expect this sort of crap when the powers that be in power in the two hot air shit pits are diametrically opposed but I've had nothing but one lot slagging off the other from day one of the assembly under BLAIR's watch in '97.
And I have increasingly found any correspondence on matters of concern to me returned with the same slopey-shouldered Gallic Shrug that the other lot are to blame.
Perhaps we should shoot the whole lot of them and try something different, i feel it would be hard to make things worse than it already is.
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somersetli
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Oct 23 2014, 06:25 PM
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Instead of arguing about whether Ed Miliband would destroy Britain or not. Let us just hope that he is never put in charge of this country to do anything at all.
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Stan Still
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Oct 23 2014, 06:31 PM
Post #114
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- jaguar
- Oct 23 2014, 04:03 PM
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- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit: 'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer. Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die. Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14). Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored. I agree it is someone's family home that may have been in the same family for years and hard earned.
Mansion Tax is used to rally the Class Warriors as they jump at any chance to have a go at the toffs who as we all know all live in Mansions with shed loads of cash that they have never worked for and all evade taxes.
The fact that this tax will hit the property rich but cash poor is immaterial to them, the fact that the stress of yet another tax to pay levied on them or more accurately their estate intended to help their kids and loved ones after they are gone is ignored.
A tax driven by envy and desperation for cash, and they call the Tories the Nasty Party, total hypocrisy yet again.
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Tigger
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Oct 23 2014, 06:53 PM
Post #115
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- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
And if I want to know what you think I'll get a lobotomy.
Coming from the self proclaimed businessman who did not even know that a VAT threshold existed I think it best just to ignore your increasingly silly and extremely juvenile remarks. Tig. you really do take the biscuit and you might be better off, we certainly would be, if you spent more time with your fellow cowboy Plumbers fixing bits n pieces on roofs, with your shared pair of Mole-grips as you provide little of political interest, but reveal a great deal about your own shortcomings. So be a good boy, get up the ladder and leave the grownups in peace. It would seem that your memory is playing tricks on you again, that or just the usual dishonesty.
Perhaps you could help out your local GP? I feel if you just turn up the lucky doctor in question could get an instant £55 bonus.
^ Topical joke.
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C-too
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Oct 23 2014, 07:05 PM
Post #116
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- RJD
- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit: 'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer. Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die. Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14). Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored. Do you have any comparisons to make with the 'Bedroom Tax' ? Or are we only supposed to feel sorry for people sitting on a £2m fortune?
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C-too
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Oct 23 2014, 07:10 PM
Post #117
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- Stan Still
- Oct 23 2014, 06:31 PM
- jaguar
- Oct 23 2014, 04:03 PM
- C-too
- Oct 23 2014, 02:41 PM
- RJD
- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit: 'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer. Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die. Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14). Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored.
I agree it is someone's family home that may have been in the same family for years and hard earned. Mansion Tax is used to rally the Class Warriors as they jump at any chance to have a go at the toffs who as we all know all live in Mansions with shed loads of cash that they have never worked for and all evade taxes. The fact that this tax will hit the property rich but cash poor is immaterial to them, the fact that the stress of yet another tax to pay levied on them or more accurately their estate intended to help their kids and loved ones after they are gone is ignored. A tax driven by envy and desperation for cash, and they call the Tories the Nasty Party, total hypocrisy yet again. I see you are still driven by your love of money and wealth. Is that what it takes to make you feel like a man?
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Affa
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Oct 23 2014, 10:27 PM
Post #118
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- Tigger
- Oct 23 2014, 06:53 PM
Perhaps you could help out your local GP? I feel if you just turn up the lucky doctor in question could get an instant £55 bonus.
^ Topical joke.
My GP has decided to retire, early, very early ....... off hand he's about the only person I know that might get caught in this mansion tax net.
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Tytoalba
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Oct 23 2014, 10:48 PM
Post #119
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- C-too
- Oct 23 2014, 02:40 PM
- Tytoalba
- Oct 22 2014, 10:08 PM
- C-too
- Oct 22 2014, 05:50 PM
- Tytoalba
- Oct 22 2014, 05:35 PM
None of which proves some privatisation would be an improvement. An awful lot of privatisations over the last 30 years have not proved better for the people, but they have seen huge profits going to foreign owners and foreign shareholders in other countries.
Now is your GPs surgery nationalised, or is it privatised, and are you generally satisfied with its services.?
It's part of the NHS. The point is that most are private practices under contract with the NHS. That has been thw situation since the inception of the NHS, Private and public services running in tandem. Just a thought. It seems that without more GPs they are being overwhelomed by their number of patients , and unlike in the past when they were paid by the patient ,now they are get patients with more trivial conditions taking up more of their time, Free at te point of acc3ess seems to raise exp0ectations too high,patients are getting more demanding, and GPs are losing their status. An upront fee may slow the demands, Remember that holiday inoculations are not free and are paid for by the patient, aalng with other types of medicals documentation and some paid for by insurance companies , so it seems that patients can afford to pay when the need arises.
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Tytoalba
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Oct 23 2014, 10:54 PM
Post #120
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- Stan Still
- Oct 23 2014, 06:31 PM
- jaguar
- Oct 23 2014, 04:03 PM
- C-too
- Oct 23 2014, 02:41 PM
- RJD
- Oct 22 2014, 06:39 PM
If you want to know what Milliband intends for the UK go look at France. If you want to know what Milliband intends for the English NHS go look at it's counterpart in Wales. If you want to know who Milliband intends to milk well as he has now declared it is all those earning >£43,000 PA who are now, if they have a big house considered as the landed gentry. If you think that the so called Mansion Tax will stay with a threshold of £2m then you are naive. Where else will he return to squeeze out the milk? Milliband certainly looks like he wants us to become a lot more like France.
Your madly bisaed post which is best ignored.
'Let's stop calling it a "mansion tax"- these are not mansions, these are family homes' - Tessa Jowell, Labour MP Ed Miliband's planned tax on the family home will hit hardworking people across the country - as even his own MPs and Peers admit: 'It will impact disastrously on people...particularly pensioners' - Glenda Jackson, Labour MP. 'It is misconceived...what it does is create a cliff edge' - Nick Raynsford, Labour MP. 'A hopeless and desperate idea' - Lord Noon, Labour Peer. Labour said pensioners would be protected - but Ed Balls admitted this week that pensioners will have to pay the tax after they die. Labour said only homes worth £2 million would be hit - but already a senior Labour figure has demanded the tax be extended to homes worth £400,000 in the North of England (Claire Reynolds, quoted in The Sunday Express, 10/08/14). Not quite as biased as you claim, and best not to be ignored.
I agree it is someone's family home that may have been in the same family for years and hard earned. Mansion Tax is used to rally the Class Warriors as they jump at any chance to have a go at the toffs who as we all know all live in Mansions with shed loads of cash that they have never worked for and all evade taxes. The fact that this tax will hit the property rich but cash poor is immaterial to them, the fact that the stress of yet another tax to pay levied on them or more accurately their estate intended to help their kids and loved ones after they are gone is ignored. A tax driven by envy and desperation for cash, and they call the Tories the Nasty Party, total hypocrisy yet again. Those that will be asked to pay the mansion tax for the beneft of the NHS, are the least likely to want to need the services for they will be paying for their own health needs. and saving the NHS money by doing so. Along with their envy , the left seem to have the least concept of fairness.
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