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The DWP’s Fit For Work Service
Topic Started: Oct 26 2014, 08:05 AM (734 Views)
papasmurf
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If after November you have a more than a month off of work from November onwards, be afraid be very afraid.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/files/fit_for_work_service_-_who_benefits_.pdf

The DWP’s Fit For Work Service (FFWS), being rolled out across the country
from November 2014, is designed to intervene when a person has been off
work, or is expected to be off work, for four weeks or more due to illness. GPs
will be expected to refer patients to FFWS, which will then perform an
assessment and draw up a plan to get them back to work as quickly as
possible.


The company which has been awarded the contract by the DWP is
http://www.healthmanltd.com/ Health Management Limited. Its Medical
Director is Professor Mike O’Donnell. To anyone familiar with the history of
welfare reform and the DWP, his involvement may be highly significant.
Professor O’Donnell was previously Chief Medical Officer at Atos Healthcare,
the company which has been responsible for the Work Capability Assessment
fiasco. Prior to being at Atos, he was Chief Medical Officer at Unum, an
American insurance company which has worked closely with the DWP on
welfare reform, and which has been accused of running ‘disability denial
factories’ in the USA, in order to avoid paying out on sickness or injury
claims.
In 2012 legal website LawyersandSettlements.com reported: "Unum continues
to suffer from a global reputation that it denies, delays or discontinues
benefits in an alleged attempt to wear down policyholders in their pursuit of
legitimate benefits."
Professor O’Donnell has boasted in the past about the extent of Unum’s
influence on the DWP, including the push for the bio-psychosocial (BPS)
model of disability to be used as the basis for assessment. In a document
published in 2005 he said:
"We know that our views and understanding are not yet in the mainstream of
doctors’ thinking, but Government Policy is moving in the same direction, to a large
extent being driven by our thinking and that of our close associates, both in the UK
and overseas.”


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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 12:24 PM

My wife is not in the best of health either but she keeps going to work full time and long hours she feels that she will seize up if she stops work and be bored silly, I will lay odds she keeps working after she reaches pensionable age she enjoys working she will choose when the time is right for her to stop not any Doctor or Nanny.
The regulations my wife's employer has to comply with mean she will not be able to work until she is 66, neither my wife or her employer has any control over that, and it applies to millions of workers.
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Stan Still
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I am not surprised by your claim at all,you always come out with something different to the norm.

The legislation which all employers must abide by cannot force anyone to retire on reasons of age alone unless they can justify it, and they must justify it, it is the employee who decides when they wish to retire not the employer in this day and age.



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disgruntled porker
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Marconi
Oct 26 2014, 11:47 AM
I want one of those 'Qualified medical staff' to diagnose me every time I'm ill, as they are obviously more qualified than my GP.
He volleys the ball and smashes it into the top of the net! Why can't others appreciate this most obvious of observations.

"Some" say those medical people we call GP's don't want to make judgements on someones ability to go to work, so lets send them to another "qualified medical person" who will! One working for the NHS is not qualified to, but the one working for the DWP is? Arse gravy! Anyone who cannot smell a rat here needs to seek out one of these "qualified medical people" and get him to run a black and decker up his sinuses and cure his anosmia.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 12:53 PM

The legislation which all employers must abide by cannot force anyone to retire on reasons of age alone


I am fully aware of that but there are many jobs where the physical requirements effectively mean a lower retirement age. With retirement age being upped from 60 to 66 for women means many will not be physically able to work until 66, there are also many male occupations realistically 55 is borderline.
Many jobs require annual or more frequent medical/capability tests and a failure mean no job/early retirement.
The blanket rise in retirement age is going to have emergent properties that will have to be addressed.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 01:05 PM
Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 12:53 PM

The legislation which all employers must abide by cannot force anyone to retire on reasons of age alone


I am fully aware of that but there are many jobs where the physical requirements effectively mean a lower retirement age. With retirement age being upped from 60 to 66 for women means many will not be physically able to work until 66, there are also many male occupations realistically 55 is borderline.
Many jobs require annual or more frequent medical/capability tests and a failure mean no job/early retirement.
The blanket rise in retirement age is going to have emergent properties that will have to be addressed.
The other part of the legislation states that employers have to offer flexible working which could mean reduction in hours or days worked, redeployment if available to a less physical demanding position or make adjustments to keep the worker in work.

If they refuse it is straight to an industrial tribunal for any employer that does not and must again justify why they cannot abide by the legislation.

We are living longer these days and more people than ever of retirement age and over are more active than ever before, either still working or enjoying a round of golf or other pass times now that they have the time to do it, take a trip to a local gym as see how many elderly are working out, my local council pool and gym is packed everyday.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:33 PM
The other part of the legislation states that employers have to offer flexible working which could mean reduction in hours or days worked, redeployment if available to a less physical demanding position or make adjustments to keep the worker in work.

IF any of that is possible or available.
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Affa
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Marconi
Oct 26 2014, 11:47 AM
I want one of those 'Qualified medical staff' to diagnose me every time I'm ill, as they are obviously more qualified than my GP.
!clp! best not get !puke!
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:33 PM


We are living longer these days and more people than ever of retirement age and over are more active than ever before, either still working or enjoying a round of golf or other pass times now that they have the time to do it, take a trip to a local gym as see how many elderly are working out, my local council pool and gym is packed everyday.
But that does not apply to all people of retirement age. (Plus where I live there isn't a local council swimming pool or a gym.)

I suggested getting a multi-gym at the local football club which could also be used by OAPs as well and for Physio as well, but they preferred two large screen TVs in the bar instead.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 01:43 PM
Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:33 PM
The other part of the legislation states that employers have to offer flexible working which could mean reduction in hours or days worked, redeployment if available to a less physical demanding position or make adjustments to keep the worker in work.

IF any of that is possible or available.
Trust you to find a negative side to anything one size does not fit everyone doom and gloom as usual different day same old crap from you, so boring  :(
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Oct 26 2014, 12:03 PM
But your post hints at the real issue. The GP could hurry up those tests IF the GP had any interest in getting her back to (part time) work. But GPs so often do not, it's just more work for them.
How?

Does GP X ring up and ask for their tests to be fast-tracked?
What happens when GP Y rings and ask the same for their tests?

I'm sure many, if not all, GP's would love all the appointments they set and tests they allocate to be completed within as short a time-frame as possible to ensure that patients receive both peace of mind and timely treatment.

Problem is that would require a significant funding increase for the NHS.

Which could, of course, be achieved if so much money wasn't being wasted (and lost) privatising the NHS piecemeal.

All The Best
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:53 PM
Trust you to find a negative side to anything one size does not fit everyone doom and gloom as usual different day same old crap from you, so boring  :(
I am being realistic, there are millions of people who have do physically demanding jobs with regular health checks involved, plus their own safety and the safety of others needing to be taken into consideration. That just mean working beyond even 55 is difficult for some, 60 even more difficult, and 66 next to impossible.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 01:48 PM
Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:33 PM


We are living longer these days and more people than ever of retirement age and over are more active than ever before, either still working or enjoying a round of golf or other pass times now that they have the time to do it, take a trip to a local gym as see how many elderly are working out, my local council pool and gym is packed everyday.
But that does not apply to all people of retirement age. (Plus where I live there isn't a local council swimming pool or a gym.)

I suggested getting a multi-gym at the local football club which could also be used by OAPs as well and for Physio as well, but they preferred two large screen TVs in the bar instead.
Have you ever thought of moving? the picture you paint of Cornwall makes think it must be a desolate waste land after a nuclear strike with dead bodies all the place and tumble weed blowing down the streets like some spaghetti western.

A mate of mine is thinking or retiring down there I think I'll tell him not too Dorset has got to be better and safer he would never forgive me if he by accident bought a house near you he's had enough of war zones, what's your village twinned with Baghdad  ::) !(0)!
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 01:58 PM
Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 01:53 PM
Trust you to find a negative side to anything one size does not fit everyone doom and gloom as usual different day same old crap from you, so boring  :(
I am being realistic, there are millions of people who have do physically demanding jobs with regular health checks involved, plus their own safety and the safety of others needing to be taken into consideration. That just mean working beyond even 55 is difficult for some, 60 even more difficult, and 66 next to impossible.
Some did not even work until retirement age did they  ::)
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 02:04 PM
Some did not even work until retirement age did they  ::)
Some did not live until retirement age, working 60-80 hours a week for decades at physically demanding work killed them.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 02:02 PM
Have you ever thought of moving? the picture you paint of Cornwall
I am not commenting about Cornwall specifically. I was born in Buckinghamshire and out of my peer group of around 30 from my childhood and youth, only two of us made it to 65.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 12:06 PM
Steve K
Oct 26 2014, 12:03 PM
Well I'm glad that your wife is better

But your post hints at the real issue. The GP could hurry up those tests IF the GP had any interest in getting her back to (part time) work.
My wife is not better, she has also only been working two night shifts a week since she started at her current place of work. It is the ONLY way she can carry on until the new retirement age of 66 was imposed on her.
Sorry to hear that

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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 02:08 PM
Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 02:04 PM
Some did not even work until retirement age did they  ::)
Some did not live until retirement age, working 60-80 hours a week for decades at physically demanding work killed them.
Some never make it to their teens, when you are born no guarantee comes with you no matter if you work or not when your number is up then that's it.

I have worked hard for 5 decades and still here so are millions of others the population is getting older people are living much longer than they did , if your theory or should I say guess was accurate the opposite would be happening, the proof that you are wrong yet again is the large state pension bill people after working for at least 50 years are living longer to claim it some for 30 years or more.

The young generation that is growing up now will live longer than we will that is a medical fact, any GP will tell you sitting on ones arse being inactive miserable and feeing sorry for oneself is more likely to kill you off early than being active and working.
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johnofgwent
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Stan Still
Oct 26 2014, 09:47 AM
To me it suggests that there is now a structured procedure to help get people back into work after an illness, failing health, or accident by referring when required workers to other suitable NHS medical staff who are more qualified than your GP
Seems to me you fall into the "glass half full kinda guy" pigeonhole.

I recall with stark clarity the night I choked to death. The karma merchants amongst us may find it significant it happenned almost exactly an hour before my grand-daughter was born. A combination of the legacy of the stress the job at Barclays Bank lumped on me followed by the stress when they chucked us on the street, and the damage it did to my heart valves, the stress of the three way political bunfight at my next employer and the shute way they treated the staff, the shit i had to deal with from one particular client and the way two project managers were using me as their punchbag and trampoline and a fuse blew. I woke at 2am in the morning, my face flushed and sweat pouring off me, then i realised i could neither breathe in nor out, my aorway was blocked by a plug of vomit.

I believe this is the way most deaths in of persons taken into custody in an inebriated or drugged state happen, you roll onto your stomach, the inevitable happens and you are so pissed / stoned the alarm bells that go off in your head as the blood C02 rises are not answered and you wake up dead. Or rather, you never wake up. In my case, I sat bolt upright and realised I had about fifteen seconds to do something.

This was actually the second time I had experienced this, the time before I managed to clear the blockage with a swift bit of self administration of forced heimlich and a sibsequent ride to a&e ... this time the stress at work was so bad i decided f*ck it lay back and waited for the need to me to go into that hell on earth near gatwick to dissolve into eternity ... and out went the lights

About ten seconds later i felt this incredible pressure on my chest and about a minute later woke to find a tube down my gob and wife and daughter#2 carying out the advanced medical stuff they picked up ... i knew i should not have sent them on that bloody course ... and about five mins later the paramedic who lives across the road took over ...

In the GP's surgery a few days later i got handed a "fit note" telling my employer i was most certainly not fit and would not be for a good three weeks.

Back in work at the post illness interview all went well until i pointed out my complete lack of desire to continue living in the face of having to deal with "that bloody woman" at the client in gatwick.

And that is how I came to get £50 from the BBC.

My employer made me dial the company's suicide helpline. There and then.

Outsourced of course. It would have been hilarious if it had been dealing with the call centre in pakistan since i can drive not only a truck, but also a JCB ... and so unless the gunmen trying to stop me have armour piercing rounds ...

Regrettably the voice on the end of the line was distintly glaswegian. And suddenly i realised she was reading a script that was in essence the same as the recorded message on most such systems "thank you for calling the suicide helpline your plea for help is really important to our bank balance that's why we're making you pay through the nose on one of those 08** numbers that aren't included in your call plan so we cam rip you off £10 for this call by making you hang on ... but please, donlt top yourself until you've discussed the matter with one of our trained operatives because that way we can charge your employer another £95 + vat for listening to your snivelling"

I suddenly burst out laughing and slammed down the phone.

Later I sent an email to "The Now Show" with an idea for a script whereby a bloke is standing on a ladder / rooftop / whatever rope round neck tied to solid object mobile in hand he rings the company suicide helpline to be told thank you for calling your cry for help is important to us .... and back came £50.

In the end I got told to go see some counsellor ... who I later found out from a close friend in the same business was in need of counselling herself after i'd finished with her ...

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Stan Still
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Yes my glass is always half full not half empty, having travelled and worked overseas for a number of years when younger I saw real poverty, destitution, where peoples life expectancy was very short through lack of care, corruption, disease , famine and warfare, I know just how lucky we are in the West.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 08:40 AM
Yes my glass is always half full not half empty, having travelled and worked overseas for a number of years when younger I saw real poverty, destitution, where peoples life expectancy was very short through lack of care, corruption, disease , famine and warfare, I know just how lucky we are in the West.
fair enough i recall in the bank's it dept the chap who shadowed me for disaster recovery purposes came to us from a company that made set top boxes and his job had been to fly out to the world's greatest shitholes where the likes of pace, amstrad and so on set up their factories. let's just say the indians and chinese in india and china don't eat anything like what the restaurant down the road serves and leave it at that shall we ...

... of course, knowing that, it makes me the every opposite of a glass half full guy because i know where britain's headed in its blind headlong dive to out-do places like that ...
Edited by johnofgwent, Oct 27 2014, 09:57 AM.
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Stan Still
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My home town is unrecognizable to the one I grew up in and left 40 years ago ,English is now the second language, it was no oil painting when I left but now it is dull drab and dangerous at night gangs of Pakistani youths roam the streets.

In my day you could walk to the pub for a couple of pints and a game of cards or darts without having to watch your back, or take your girl for a walk in the park or see a film not so now.

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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 07:28 AM


I have worked hard for 5 decades
But not 60-80 hours a week at a physically demanding job in conditions that are not very pleasant or healthy.
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RJD
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 10:34 AM
My home town is unrecognizable to the one I grew up in and left 40 years ago ,English is now the second language, it was no oil painting when I left but now it is dull drab and dangerous at night gangs of Pakistani youths roam the streets.

In my day you could walk to the pub for a couple of pints and a game of cards or darts without having to watch your back, or take your girl for a walk in the park or see a film not so now.

I recall visiting Liverpool Pubs on a Saturday night at a time when Bobbies went round in fours with an Alsatian dog straining on the leash. Plenty of Micks and Taffies in the Pubs but very few Africans or Asians. The early post war years in many Towns and Cities were not without danger of violence.

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RJD
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papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 10:40 AM
Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 07:28 AM


I have worked hard for 5 decades
But not 60-80 hours a week at a physically demanding job in conditions that are not very pleasant or healthy.
How do you know that? He might have been down an asbestos mine in the RSA for all we know.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:11 PM
He might have been down an asbestos mine in the RSA for all we know.
He would be dead by now.
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Stan Still
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papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 10:40 AM
Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 07:28 AM


I have worked hard for 5 decades
But not 60-80 hours a week at a physically demanding job in conditions that are not very pleasant or healthy.
You have no idea what I or many thousands of others have worked at or endured or the condition they and I worked in or the hours I and they worked.

Those in their 80's now drawing their state and work pensions having paid in since the welfare state started did have bad working conditions, if you had not left the workplace so early you would know that working conditions are much better and safer than years ago.


Your imitation of the Four Yorkshire Men sketch is crap and cuts no ice with me
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 02:03 PM.
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Stan Still
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RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:10 PM
Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 10:34 AM
My home town is unrecognizable to the one I grew up in and left 40 years ago ,English is now the second language, it was no oil painting when I left but now it is dull drab and dangerous at night gangs of Pakistani youths roam the streets.

In my day you could walk to the pub for a couple of pints and a game of cards or darts without having to watch your back, or take your girl for a walk in the park or see a film not so now.

I recall visiting Liverpool Pubs on a Saturday night at a time when Bobbies went round in fours with an Alsatian dog straining on the leash. Plenty of Micks and Taffies in the Pubs but very few Africans or Asians. The early post war years in many Towns and Cities were not without danger of violence.

True but I think things are much worse today, Liverpool not a place I would chose to visit back then or even now, there are parts of London I prefer not to visit but you can say that of almost any City in the world
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marybrown
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If a handicapped person is ''forced'' to take a job..surely it would be evident to his/hers employers in the space of a week that they were not capable??

And they would alert the appropriate authorities??
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Stan Still
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This scheme is not about forcing anyone to work, its about getting them back to work quicker after an illness or accident by getting them the right medical help quicker
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somersetli
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 02:14 PM
This scheme is not about forcing anyone to work, its about getting them back to work quicker after an illness or accident by getting them the right medical help quicker
I think Papa's point in this, has been that those carrying out the assessments are not qualified to do it.
I don't know whether they are or not. I have never had to face them, nor do I know anybody who has. All I do know is that during my working life your GP decided whether you were fit for work or not, and signed you on or off accordingly.
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papasmurf
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 02:03 PM

Those in their 80's now drawing their state and work pensions having paid in since the welfare state started did have bad working conditions,
I suspect there are few if any people in their 80s who worked 60-80 hours a week in bad conditions for all of their working life.
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marybrown
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Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 02:14 PM
This scheme is not about forcing anyone to work, its about getting them back to work quicker after an illness or accident by getting them the right medical help quicker
Oh right..I thought it was getting the long term disabled back to work..
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papasmurf
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marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:30 PM
Oh right..I thought it was getting the long term disabled back to work..
No, it is for forcing the short term sick back to work, whether it is safe for them, other drivers when they are travelling to or from work or the people they work with.
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marybrown
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papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 02:34 PM
marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:30 PM
Oh right..I thought it was getting the long term disabled back to work..
No, it is for forcing the short term sick back to work, whether it is safe for them, other drivers when they are travelling to or from work or the people they work with.
Bloody hell!

What are they suffering from?
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papasmurf
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marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:36 PM

What are they suffering from?
Iain Duncan Smith and the private company running the system does not care about that.
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Stan Still
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marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:36 PM
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 02:34 PM
marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:30 PM
Oh right..I thought it was getting the long term disabled back to work..
No, it is for forcing the short term sick back to work, whether it is safe for them, other drivers when they are travelling to or from work or the people they work with.
Bloody hell!

What are they suffering from?
Well whatever Papasmurf is suffering from its not caused by over working !jk!
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 02:56 PM.
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HIGHWAY
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papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 02:40 PM
marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:36 PM

What are they suffering from?
Iain Duncan Smith and the private company running the system does not care about that.
What does it matter what there suffering from, ,, if there fit and able why shouldn't get back to work ?
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marybrown
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HIGHWAY
Oct 27 2014, 02:49 PM
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 02:40 PM
marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:36 PM

What are they suffering from?
Iain Duncan Smith and the private company running the system does not care about that.
What does it matter what there suffering from, ,, if there fit and able why shouldn't get back to work ?
might be Ebola..
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Stan Still
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marybrown
Oct 27 2014, 02:30 PM
Stan Still
Oct 27 2014, 02:14 PM
This scheme is not about forcing anyone to work, its about getting them back to work quicker after an illness or accident by getting them the right medical help quicker
Oh right..I thought it was getting the long term disabled back to work..
No if you are off work for a month because you are ill or injured you can now be referred to better trained medical staff to assess you in order to get you the right treatment in order to get fit and well to go back to work thereby keeping your job.

However you will not be made to go back to work until you are fit and well enough, not matter what the resident propagandist says.
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marybrown
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I'm waiting for the bombardment...
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