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| Some Towns 'Swamped' By Migrants | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 26 2014, 03:57 PM (279 Views) | |
| papasmurf | Oct 26 2014, 03:57 PM Post #1 |
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How times have changed, a few months ago he would not have dared say that:- http://news.sky.com/story/1360722/senior-tory-some-towns-swamped-by-migrants 15:41, UK, Sunday 26 October 2014 A Tory cabinet minister has warned that some British communities are being "swamped" by EU migrants. Speaking to Sky News' Murnaghan programme, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said some towns are "under siege" as he dismissed Germany opposition to changing free movement rules within the European Union. Prime Minister David Cameron has promised to regain control over immigration and has vowed to make it a "red line" in renegotiating UK membership terms. But German chancellor Angela Merkel has rejected the prospect of radical change. Speaking on Sky News Mr Fallon said: "The Germans haven't seen our proposal yet, and we haven't seen our proposal yet. "That is still being worked on at the moment to see what we can do to prevent whole towns and communities being swamped by huge numbers of migrant workers. "In some areas, particularly on the east coast, yes, towns do feel under siege from large numbers of migrant workers and people claiming benefits. It is quite right that we look at that. "The original treaty when it was drawn up 50 years ago did not envisage these vast movements of people, and we are perfectly entitled to say this needs to be looked at again." It is the latest escalation in clashes with European counterparts after Mr Cameron responded furiously to a surprise demand to contribute an extra £1.7bn into the Brussels budget last week. |
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| Tigger | Oct 26 2014, 04:09 PM Post #2 |
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Strange isn't it? Rather than listen to the electorate they ignore them and fob them off until something crap like UKIP comes along to jolt them out of their complacency. What you won't hear for a while yet is the real reasons why some places are full of economic migrants of the low skilled variety, Britain has some of the laxest labour laws in the developed world and low paid insecure workers are what this low grade economy loves. Try turning up in France or Germany with only a smattering of the local language and see how far you get with any potential employer. Change the above and solve the problem or get out of Europe and have a whole heap of bigger problems. Has any right wing politician got the balls to say this? Edited by Tigger, Oct 26 2014, 04:14 PM.
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 26 2014, 04:40 PM Post #3 |
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But this is a chicken and egg scenario to some extent. Cut of the supply, and reverse the flow, of unskilled and semiskilled workers and labour market will have to adapt to that. But, let's be brutally honest here, what is needed is a total rebalancing of the economy so that we actually make things people want, a rethink of the short and medium term nature of our economic ideal, a change of labour laws, AND a curb on immigration. Pointing out that immigration (a socio-economic process) is part of the problem is not the same as saying immigrants (people) are the problem. All The Best |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 26 2014, 05:04 PM Post #4 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Well of course we had one of those economies, but then some wanker by the name of Ted Heath took us into this protectionist structure where prices were fixed at artificially high levels between members and excess dumped cheaply in countries outside the cartel, the reason given for this wastrel stance being that price was a secondary consideration when compared to "security of supply" |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 26 2014, 05:17 PM Post #5 |
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The EU politicians are trying too hard to change things too fast, and in the process are not taking the people with them, but just driving them forward. The old saying of softly softly catchee monkey seems not to have been heard by them. The only conclusion that sensible open minded people can come to is that there is a hidden agenda that all the politicians have agreed to, and are signed up to and are complying with , whilst pretending that their electorates are fully compliant and in agreement with the proposals, whilst hiding the truth. Its like encouraging undressing, and going into gas chambers for a nice cleansing shower, before bedding down for the night in a clean bed. |
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| Boxter | Oct 27 2014, 03:06 PM Post #6 |
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The three monkey parties have had their day now its time to take bak our country and indeed our long lost tradition of representative democracy. All the three old parties really are are EU puppets. Thay are there merely to create the illusion of a dempocratic government. The EU commissioner for this ive forgotten her name let the cat out of the bag by admitting 70% of UK laws are dictated in Brussels not from London anymore.![]() Vote for any one of the dead duck parties Labour Conservative or Lib Dem then ypou will have totally wasted your vote as they no longer have any say in what happens to our country. They haave handed that responsibility over lock stock and barrel to the new Brussels autocracy. They are merely oits rubber stampers there to create the illusuion of a democratic system. Our borders are not our borders any longer they belong to and control of them belongs to people who we would have trouble just pronouncing their names that is if we were even privledged enough to be told who they even were based somewhere between Brussels ans Strasbourg. Even our very bank accounts are no longer sacrosanct as these same faceless technocrats can demand and get billions as we have seen most recently and there is totally nothing our puppet administration can do to stop it. It has to be ended and UKIP is the only party offering that possibility . Edited by Boxter, Oct 27 2014, 03:17 PM.
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| RJD | Oct 27 2014, 04:16 PM Post #7 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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BS of the first order. The UK is desperate for educated skilled people and cannot find them, even during the period of recession, to satisfy demand. These people get low paid jobs because that is what their skill set suits them to. It really does take the biscuit when cowboy Plumbers deride other UK workers. What a sick joke. |
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| Heinrich | Oct 27 2014, 06:34 PM Post #8 |
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Michael Fallon is only saying what Tory/ULIP supporters believe. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 07:29 PM Post #9 |
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He is saying what many people think and feel and for it some Labour and limp wristed Liberals in Parliament have heaped scorn on him as usual anyone who does not share their views about anything gets the same treatment.
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 07:30 PM.
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 07:46 PM Post #10 |
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"We" keep being told that RJD, but what are these skilled job vacancies that can't be filled. No-one is ever specific about that. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 07:49 PM Post #11 |
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Don't panic nobody is going to offer you one , suggest you read what many employers have been saying for quite some time
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 07:50 PM.
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 07:54 PM Post #12 |
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None of those employers are ever specific as to what the job vacancies they need to fill, but can't, are. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 08:03 PM Post #13 |
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Yeah right whatever, every job I have ever applied for is very specific what skills they need and want
Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 08:05 PM.
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| Deleted User | Oct 27 2014, 08:07 PM Post #14 |
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/27/michael-fallon-withdraws-careless-immigration-remark-swamped Backpedal alert |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 08:11 PM Post #15 |
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Is anyone surprised by that I think not, we need a Government with balls but we don't have one and I don't want one with Ed Balls in it either |
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 08:16 PM Post #16 |
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I am commenting about the skill shortages that employers bleat about to the media, but are never specific as to what those skilled job vacancies are. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 08:27 PM Post #17 |
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They are talking in general terms across the board do keep up Rodney, I will give you a clue if the speaker is from construction he or she will be taking about the skills required by the many trades that construction needs. If the speaker is speaking on behalf of engineering get the picture |
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 08:32 PM Post #18 |
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But where is the list if skilled jobs they can't fill? The last dataset I can find dates back to 2008. There appears to be nothing current. Which is odd given employers have to make a case to government to bring in anyone from outside the UK. These are supposed to be vacancies employers cannot fill with all of Europe to choose from. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 27 2014, 08:40 PM Post #19 |
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I work for a civil engineering contractor which is bracing itself for an already apparent industry wide skills shortage to get worse in the next few years. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 08:44 PM Post #20 |
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They should be employing apprentices then. |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 08:44 PM Post #21 |
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I know this may upset you but try pushing a few keys on your keyboard its not hard work honest it is not no need to fret you can have a nap afterwards And just to please you specially selected to two none right wing links so you are on no danger of being brainwashed to give you a bit of a clue Skills shortage fears temper surge in UK construction - The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/02/skills-shortage-fears-temper-uk-constructio... 2 Sep 2014 ... UK builders enjoy strongest growth for seven months but warn of skills shortage, as pay booms and building material costs rise. BBC News - Warning of worsening in UK skills shortage http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25945413 30 Jan 2014 ... Worsening shortages of skills may stop UK businesses from taking advantage of the economic recovery, research says. In a survey of 91,000 ... Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 08:45 PM.
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 08:48 PM Post #22 |
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I am referring to official datasets about skill shortages, which list EXACTLY what those shortages are and how many for each particular skill. I am NOT referring to employers bleating in the media about unspecified skill shortages. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 27 2014, 08:59 PM Post #23 |
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PS, believe it or not the idea of employing apprentices has already occurred to the senior management of all of the major UK contractors. The skills shortage remains however. Any other suggestions? |
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 09:01 PM Post #24 |
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Too little too late. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 27 2014, 09:07 PM Post #25 |
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Ok PS, what should they have done? |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 09:13 PM Post #26 |
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The only one bleating is you which as Tom Jones would say " Its not unusual" |
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| Stan Still | Oct 27 2014, 09:14 PM Post #27 |
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They should have asked PS what to do first Edited by Stan Still, Oct 27 2014, 09:22 PM.
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 09:51 PM Post #28 |
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The "skills" shortage, has it's roots going back a long time. I finish my engineering apprenticeship, back in 1970. Apprenticeships were already in decline by then. I suspect it would take a massive investment in apprentices to make a difference now. Edited by papasmurf, Oct 27 2014, 09:54 PM.
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| Deleted User | Oct 27 2014, 10:01 PM Post #29 |
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I will remind you that when I stated that we should tax the better off baby boomers to finance a massive investment in training skills and apprenticeships YOU said that it would be useless because there would be no jobs for the trainees. I'm just glad you are coming round to my way of thinking |
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| papasmurf | Oct 27 2014, 10:06 PM Post #30 |
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There still won't be any jobs for apprentices if immigration is not stopped. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 27 2014, 10:07 PM Post #31 |
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Ah. I get your drift now. |
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| Happy Hornet | Oct 27 2014, 10:54 PM Post #32 |
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The thing is PS if the company I work for does not plug the short to medium term skills gap with 2 or 3 dozen foreign workers 2000 British people could end up losing their jobs. This is exactly the sort of controlled immigration which benefits the UK that UKIP amongst others advocate. Only the most blinkered ideologue would oppose it, sadly there are far too many of these on both sides of this debate. Edited by Happy Hornet, Oct 27 2014, 10:55 PM.
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| johnofgwent | Oct 27 2014, 10:55 PM Post #33 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Michael Fallon is now saying he never meant to say it in the first place. He'll be the next defector to UKIP ... |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 28 2014, 11:27 AM Post #34 |
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There are no bye elections to be called, for six months prior to a General Election. Any defections during that time will have to be a full defection, with the seat still held by the elected MP, even if he transfers his support to another party.. The General Election is set for the 7th of May 2015, just over 6 months time, so there are unlikely to be any more resignation/defections, with just a small chance of a direct defection. but that would be a high risk, or highly principled{some will say unprincipled} direct transfer of allegience by the MP concerned. A huge propaganda coup for UKIP just prior to the GE.,if it were to happen. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 28 2014, 11:32 AM Post #35 |
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I have no problem with SKILLED foreign labour being used TEMPORARILY to plug a gap, while British workers/apprentices are being trained to fill those gaps. Then the foreign workers go back to their country of origin. Other countries do that successfully South Korea being one of them. |
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| RJD | Oct 28 2014, 11:54 AM Post #36 |
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They have. It was reported a few months ago and I provided a link here. The claim was, from industry and commerce, that they were unable to satisfy such demand and that as a consequence pay rates had increased above inflation. It was at that time you were claiming that absolutely every job available in the UK was crap and pay rates were universally reducing. The truth was that your claim did not include the rider "on average". So the vast majority may be crap, but there is a hard core of jobs for trained and educated people that are not. So best go get some of that skill stuff. |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 28 2014, 11:55 AM Post #37 |
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Agree Work permits for limited times ,with a practical revue sytem in place, even one leading to becoming a British citizen if deemed wothy, is the best way forward IMO. On immigration itself I have a fear.for the future of what has already taken place and there are signs of it happening already. Immigrants of recent time have been setting up homes in set cities and regions, their birthrates have exceeded our own, and they have gathered together to the exclusions of other races and faiths,and have been electing their own kind into council seats, and even into parliament. As their numbers grow, they will use our democratic system for their own ends,as we have seen in certain schools, and in time as their numbers grow their strength and political power will grow with it, to the point of dictating their own terms and ways. There will be white flight from such regions, and an inward flow of the like minded to replace them, to the point that a city or region can become a Muslim region for example, a seat of power and disent in the middle of England. I believe if something can happen it will happen, so a multicultural multi racial multi religious society is NOT in our childrens long term best interest, a single culture with just regional variations but a common purpose is. Intergration, cultural and religious has to be enforced in the short term with stronger immigrsation controls for the good and peacefull future we desire for our children. |
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| RJD | Oct 28 2014, 11:57 AM Post #38 |
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What a wanker. The first casualty always is? The truth. NL labelled those that wished to debate immigration as institutional racists, since then Politicians have been scared of calling a spade a spade referring to such as a silver shovel. I suggest the wanker takes a trip north and leaves his Westminster bubble. |
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| RJD | Oct 28 2014, 12:04 PM Post #39 |
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As a sovereign State must control it's borders and elected Politicians have a first duty to those that comprise that State, hence I cannot dp other than support your suggestion. We need a system of Work Permits which should only be provided for those jobs where there is a shortage of local supply. Such Permits must be time limited. If membership of the EU requires we give preference to EU citizens with such permits I do not mind discriminating against the rest. I see this as the big test of whether or not Westminster is subservient to Brussels and an answer is vital. I believe that the UK Parliament is omnipotent and can vote to apply such border controls with the imposition of Work Permits. The EU will not like it and as a consequence they or we must bend the knee. At this time on this issue I do not see Joe Public in the UK bending his/her knees. |
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| papasmurf | Oct 28 2014, 12:15 PM Post #40 |
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Quite, this is an issue that crosses normal political boundaries and the politicians are in general (with a few exceptions) totally out of touch with the majority of the electorate about it. |
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, suggest you read what many employers have been saying for quite some time
7:33 PM Jul 11