Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
£1,7 surcharge just the 1st installment; Barosso vereus Cameron
Topic Started: Oct 26 2014, 04:52 PM (763 Views)
Boxter
Member Avatar
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11185604/Both-the-EU-and-Cameron-must-come-clean-about-the-origins-of-this-outrageous-bill.html

The Cameron jibe against UKIP is that if you vote for us you get Labour. Is the only reason to vote for Camerons useless lot because they are slightly less abnoxious than the Labour party GREAT ENDORSEMENT THAT

The sad truth is whether you vote CONSERVATIVE LABOUR OR LIB DEM YOU IN FACT GET SOMEONE CALLED MANUEL BAROSSO who currently demands AND WILL GET a £1.7 billion super stealth tax from his menial mr Cameron and laugh all the way to the Bundesbank when our glorious leader blusters he wont pay up (ON THE 1st DECEMBER AT LEAST) then tells the BBC he didn't rule out paying at a later date anyway!

Barosso is laughing because he states that for every day Cameron refuses to stump up he will penalise the UK taxpayer by a further £47 million per day he dosent get his 1.7 billion blood money paid on time.

That's not the end of the sorry saga however as the same bean counters who drempt this one up are already penciling in a further British Billion raid for next year. I wonder are these the same bean counters who refused for the last 20 years to sign off on the EU accounts because of the massive rampant fraud

Its also weird that whilst the official UK employment figures never being as high the total income tax take by the treasury has FALLEN forcing our glorious coalition to borrow even more to make up the shortfall. Seems all the shiney new coalition jobs dont pay enough to qualify for paying any income tax!

THIS ALL BEGS THE PERTINENT QUESTION AS TO EXACTLY WHAT TAX INCREASES OR EXTRA CUTS CAMERON IS GOING TO BE FORCED BY HIS EU BOSS MR BAROSSO TO IMPOSE ON THE REST OF US TO PAY FOR THIS UNJUST BACKDOOR EU MANUEL BAROSSO TAX??

Come on Dave dont be coy we really want to know HOW YOU WILL MAKE THE REST OF US suffer for your prolonging the agony until 2017 PLUS not paying your boss Barosso on time!!

IF YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE TO PAY BAROSSO TAX PLUS EXTRA CUTS THEY WILL INDUCE THEN FORGET THE REST VOTE FOR THE BEST

VOTE UKIP
Edited by Boxter, Oct 26 2014, 05:05 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU. Even in Nigel Farage's wildest dreams the maximum number of seats which UKIP will win in a FPtP General Election is 25. However the populist vote for UKIP, largely supplied by disgruntled Tories and a minority of traditional white employed Labour voters, will almost certainly lose the Conservatives a multiple of that number of seats and certainly far more than Labour. In essence the more votes UKIP get the more likely we are to get a Labour Government. Simples! A Labour government means that the British taxpayers will be alternately and regularly shafted by an anti-business, anti-wealth creator, anti middle-class government and a voracious, profligate, greedy, unaccountable, undemocratic European Commission.

The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. I have no great regard for Cameron but he is absolutely right when he says a vote for UKIP is in effect a vote for Labour. I find much in UKIP's muddled political philosophy either tolerable, acceptable or desirable but it will not be in a position to deliver us from the EU or to save us from the incompetence, prejudice and undoubted profligacy of a Labour Government.

Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
The thing is does anyone really care? I cannot stand Labour, I've even less time for the Tories and UKIP is currently like an over excitable chimps tea party when the fruit turns up.

Personally I'm sick to death of the intentionally dumb and poor quality political establishment that seems to be running the country for the benefit of people like them and to the detriment of most of us, where is the next Oliver Cromwell when you need him?
Edited by Tigger, Oct 26 2014, 06:25 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Boxter
Member Avatar
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
All were doing by voting for any one of the three old dead duck parties is to elect a bunch of mere EU puppets who cannot control our tax levels our borders or even make a simple trade deal with our former business powerhouses in the rest of the free world.

Andrew Graham director of the UK based wallpaper firm Graham & Brown interviewed on the BBC news 24th October 2014 stated his companies biggest business growth was with NON EU emerging economies like Russia, Eastern Europe, Australasia, China, the Middle East, etc, whilst on the other hand in Western Europe it has fallen off, likewise with the rest of the UK, where after a good start it has also collapsed. Now with the latest stress testing report on EU banks finding that most of them are in a hopless condition to survive any more shocks the chances of us having to stump up ever higher sums has just got ever more likely

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT UKIP HAVE BEEN STATING ABOUT LIVE BEYOND THIS TOXIC EU CLUB

Our useless rulers and their hangers on both Lib Dems and labour all have abrogated all those powers and decisions to a faceless bureauracy somewhere between Brussles and Strasbourg. Then theres our so called influence in the EU its a joke as since accessible records began in 1996, Britain had voted No 65 times but the Council passed the legislation depremental to our interests every single time.

This latest 1.7 vbillion should be the straw that breaks the camels back and act as a wake up call to the UK electorate. Even the governments own immigration minister was recorded as saying many towns are in danger of being SWAMPED (HIS WORDS) by EU benefits seekers.

The EU is like the titanic and is taking us down with her unless were prepared to act and act fast!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
I maintain that the vast majority of the UK's chronic problems are caused by itself to itself.

Blaming Europe and laughingly thinking we can take on the world with our dire productivity and woeful lack of investment, unless it is made of bricks and mortar of course, is not only a sad case of self delusion but has potentially terminal economic consequences.

Europe is changing and Britain hates change. Tough.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
I realise I am wasting my time but the recalculation going back to 2002 which has resulted in the £1.7 billion was carried out by the Office For National statistics, and George Osborne knew it was going to happen back in January:-

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/economy/national-accounts/articles/2011-present/inclusion-of-illegal-drugs-and-prostitution-in-the-uk-national-accounts.pdf
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Yes you are wasting your time with most on here but thanks anyway. /8/


It's rather ironic in some ways, the Tories have always been happy to promote snide nationalism and hunt the foreigner but when it came to it they knew that trade with Europe was vitally important, not that it stopped the xenophobic scapegoating of course. The best thing about this hypocrisy and deception is that the plebs really fell for it and now only UKIP is bonkers enough to actually propose at what the Tories have long hinted at but never intended to follow through with! ;D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 07:11 PM
I realise I am wasting my time but the recalculation going back to 2002 which has resulted in the £1.7 billion was carried out by the Office For National statistics, and George Osborne knew it was going to happen back in January:-

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/economy/national-accounts/articles/2011-present/inclusion-of-illegal-drugs-and-prostitution-in-the-uk-national-accounts.pdf


Which also means that Labour knew about it too but were only too happy to leave the cupboard bare in 2010......would you call that responsible or spiteful?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Oct 26 2014, 07:28 PM
papasmurf
Oct 26 2014, 07:11 PM
I realise I am wasting my time but the recalculation going back to 2002 which has resulted in the £1.7 billion was carried out by the Office For National statistics, and George Osborne knew it was going to happen back in January:-

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/economy/national-accounts/articles/2011-present/inclusion-of-illegal-drugs-and-prostitution-in-the-uk-national-accounts.pdf


Which also means that Labour knew about it too but were only too happy to leave the cupboard bare in 2010......would you call that responsible or spiteful?
But then if they had paid it you would be moaning about something else.  ::)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Boxter
Member Avatar
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
So the bonkers UKIPPERS are the only ones who think that UK taxpayer being saddled with a bill to bale out the Germans for one is fine and dandy. The fact that theres no one in the current establishment that have even a single word or even any input whatsoever into such lunatic decisions makes a total mockery of all illusions of representative democracy in this blighted country. As my previous example of Graham & Brown proves there will always be trade beyond the sinking EU and as they sell us more than we sell them they wont want to rock that boat if we quit unless they have a completely suicidal tendency.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 06:51 PM
I maintain that the vast majority of the UK's chronic problems are caused by itself to itself.

Blame the Unions for Management intransigence with Government culpable for poor industrial relations - and that stupidity persists today.
Run public services on a shoestring budget, provide minimal investment, and declare "(1) governments cannot run businesses as well as the private sector can" -

(1) Omit the word Conservative.
Give in to lobbyists with "loads o' money", and invite corporate business to advise on all government policy.

Lie about everything, fiddle the figures, and have an obliging press spin it all for you.

I'm bored with this explanation already ....... democracy is dead!


Edited by Affa, Oct 26 2014, 07:42 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
johnofgwent
Member Avatar
It .. It is GREEN !!
[ *  *  *  * ]
Major Sinic
Oct 26 2014, 06:09 PM
Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU. Even in Nigel Farage's wildest dreams the maximum number of seats which UKIP will win in a FPtP General Election is 25. However the populist vote for UKIP, largely supplied by disgruntled Tories and a minority of traditional white employed Labour voters, will almost certainly lose the Conservatives a multiple of that number of seats and certainly far more than Labour. In essence the more votes UKIP get the more likely we are to get a Labour Government. Simples! A Labour government means that the British taxpayers will be alternately and regularly shafted by an anti-business, anti-wealth creator, anti middle-class government and a voracious, profligate, greedy, unaccountable, undemocratic European Commission.

The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. I have no great regard for Cameron but he is absolutely right when he says a vote for UKIP is in effect a vote for Labour. I find much in UKIP's muddled political philosophy either tolerable, acceptable or desirable but it will not be in a position to deliver us from the EU or to save us from the incompetence, prejudice and undoubted profligacy of a Labour Government.

"The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. "

Probably so, in the sense that Milliband certainly won't take us out. However one needs to go back to the mealy mouthed half hearted statement made by Cameron on the matter, which was that he would seek to renegotiate to stay in, use every fibre of his being, heart and soul to work out a way to stay in, spin any story, obfuscate any truth, indeed lie through his teeth in the hope that he can persuade the electorate to vote to stay in ... after all, loik what he promised scotland ... and look how he's adhering to those promises now (not)

so the answer to your question "Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU" is ...

... because farage now represents the one thing cameron fears above all else, losing the power to govern at the next election. If farage cannot mount a credible threat (and by credible I mean enough to do some political damage, just a few MP's will do the trick) we are screwed.

It will be a tactical vote that carres the day. In Newport East for example i will certainly be voting UKIP. To steal a phrase from one of our other members I too would sooner excrete a porcupine backwards than vote tory, her destruction of the steelworks that employed the vast majority of the skilled tradesmen and craftesmen and threw the town to hell will never be forgotton and will never be forgiven no matter how many people say it was "necessary" and this really does mean that a tory vote in newport east is a vote pissed up the wall. For the last three elections Labour's vote here has withered on the vine, it is now an ultramarginal, but regrettably the opposition to labour is a lib dem, who will be quite extinct next year, the gains in 2001 1005 and 2010 having been acquired through increasng disillusion and then fury at blair ...

Labour themselves CLEARLY fear a mass transfer of voter affection from tactical lib demmer to tactical ukipper, as i said a few days ago on here our labour mp was out knocking doors drumming up support in this ward which experion rank the second most affluent in the city and we have not seen hide nor hair of an elected MP for thirty years ...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Boxter
Oct 26 2014, 06:39 PM
All were doing by voting for any one of the three old dead duck parties is to elect a bunch of mere EU puppets who cannot control our tax levels our borders or even make a simple trade deal with our former business powerhouses in the rest of the free world.

Andrew Graham director of the UK based wallpaper firm Graham & Brown interviewed on the BBC news 24th October 2014 stated his companies biggest business growth was with NON EU emerging economies like Russia, Eastern Europe, Australasia, China, the Middle East, etc, whilst on the other hand in Western Europe it has fallen off, likewise with the rest of the UK, where after a good start it has also collapsed. Now with the latest stress testing report on EU banks finding that most of them are in a hopless condition to survive any more shocks the chances of us having to stump up ever higher sums has just got ever more likely

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT UKIP HAVE BEEN STATING ABOUT LIVE BEYOND THIS TOXIC EU CLUB

Our useless rulers and their hangers on both Lib Dems and labour all have abrogated all those powers and decisions to a faceless bureauracy somewhere between Brussles and Strasbourg. Then theres our so called influence in the EU its a joke as since accessible records began in 1996, Britain had voted No 65 times but the Council passed the legislation depremental to our interests every single time.

This latest 1.7 vbillion should be the straw that breaks the camels back and act as a wake up call to the UK electorate. Even the governments own immigration minister was recorded as saying many towns are in danger of being SWAMPED (HIS WORDS) by EU benefits seekers.

The EU is like the titanic and is taking us down with her unless were prepared to act and act fast!
According to UKIP it's a £10B cut in our contributions

"Now with the latest stress testing report on EU banks finding that most of them are in a hopless condition to survive any more shocks . . ."

24 out of 123 = "most of them". Yep that'd be UKIP maths  ::)  ::)  ::)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29777589
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]

The Establishment would rather a Labour Government (majority) than one with UKIP holding the balance in a coalition.

It is too soon to see a shift, but as the run in to GE gets closer Eds will suddenly be made to look credible.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Oct 26 2014, 07:41 PM
Boxter
Oct 26 2014, 06:39 PM
All were doing by voting for any one of the three old dead duck parties is to elect a bunch of mere EU puppets who cannot control our tax levels our borders or even make a simple trade deal with our former business powerhouses in the rest of the free world.

Andrew Graham director of the UK based wallpaper firm Graham & Brown interviewed on the BBC news 24th October 2014 stated his companies biggest business growth was with NON EU emerging economies like Russia, Eastern Europe, Australasia, China, the Middle East, etc, whilst on the other hand in Western Europe it has fallen off, likewise with the rest of the UK, where after a good start it has also collapsed. Now with the latest stress testing report on EU banks finding that most of them are in a hopless condition to survive any more shocks the chances of us having to stump up ever higher sums has just got ever more likely

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT UKIP HAVE BEEN STATING ABOUT LIVE BEYOND THIS TOXIC EU CLUB

Our useless rulers and their hangers on both Lib Dems and labour all have abrogated all those powers and decisions to a faceless bureauracy somewhere between Brussles and Strasbourg. Then theres our so called influence in the EU its a joke as since accessible records began in 1996, Britain had voted No 65 times but the Council passed the legislation depremental to our interests every single time.

This latest 1.7 vbillion should be the straw that breaks the camels back and act as a wake up call to the UK electorate. Even the governments own immigration minister was recorded as saying many towns are in danger of being SWAMPED (HIS WORDS) by EU benefits seekers.

The EU is like the titanic and is taking us down with her unless were prepared to act and act fast!
According to UKIP it's a £10B cut in our contributions

"Now with the latest stress testing report on EU banks finding that most of them are in a hopless condition to survive any more shocks . . ."

24 out of 123 = "most of them". Yep that'd be UKIP maths  ::)  ::)  ::)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29777589
The other 99 are probably lying Steve! ;D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 07:51 PM
The other 99 are probably lying Steve! ;D
Well at least you can count.

BTW did you notice that this has put the lie to those stories about no financial reform since the crash. Those stress tests have teeth

"The banks now have nine months to shore up their finances or risk being shut down. "

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Oct 26 2014, 07:56 PM
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 07:51 PM
The other 99 are probably lying Steve! ;D
Well at least you can count.

BTW did you notice that this has put the lie to those stories about no financial reform since the crash. Those stress tests have teeth

"The banks now have nine months to shore up their finances or risk being shut down. "

Indeed, and I hope those who have carried out these audits have done their jobs properly this time. There is far more apparent cynicism towards the banks in Europe than there is here, a repeat performance would be unthinkable and probably terminal for those institutions involved.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 08:00 PM
Steve K
Oct 26 2014, 07:56 PM
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 07:51 PM
The other 99 are probably lying Steve! ;D
Well at least you can count.

BTW did you notice that this has put the lie to those stories about no financial reform since the crash. Those stress tests have teeth

"The banks now have nine months to shore up their finances or risk being shut down. "

Indeed, and I hope those who have carried out these audits have done their jobs properly this time. There is far more apparent cynicism towards the banks in Europe than there is here, a repeat performance would be unthinkable and probably terminal for those institutions involved.
Well Lloyds only just scraped through so lets not get too jingoistic

The tests are much much tougher than what was going on pre crash but yes I have less than total trust in auditors.
Edited by Steve K, Oct 26 2014, 11:20 PM.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Affa
Oct 26 2014, 07:47 PM
The Establishment would rather a Labour Government (majority) than one with UKIP holding the balance in a coalition.

It is too soon to see a shift, but as the run in to GE gets closer Eds will suddenly be made to look credible.


Even White Dee running the DWP wouldn't make the two Eds look credible in comparison. ;D
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Major Sinic
Oct 26 2014, 06:09 PM
Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU. Even in Nigel Farage's wildest dreams the maximum number of seats which UKIP will win in a FPtP General Election is 25. However the populist vote for UKIP, largely supplied by disgruntled Tories and a minority of traditional white employed Labour voters, will almost certainly lose the Conservatives a multiple of that number of seats and certainly far more than Labour. In essence the more votes UKIP get the more likely we are to get a Labour Government. Simples! A Labour government means that the British taxpayers will be alternately and regularly shafted by an anti-business, anti-wealth creator, anti middle-class government and a voracious, profligate, greedy, unaccountable, undemocratic European Commission.

The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. I have no great regard for Cameron but he is absolutely right when he says a vote for UKIP is in effect a vote for Labour. I find much in UKIP's muddled political philosophy either tolerable, acceptable or desirable but it will not be in a position to deliver us from the EU or to save us from the incompetence, prejudice and undoubted profligacy of a Labour Government.

It is possible , with the growing support for the Scottish Nationalist party, that Labour will lose more seats to the SNP, than the Conservatives willl lose to UKIP.
If UKIP get 25 seats, then they can certainly be part of a coalition government, and if more Conservatives are defecting to them as is claimed, then the logical conclusion will be a Conservative /UKIP coalition.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
"Give in to lobbyists with "loads o' money", and invite corporate business to advise on all government policy."

Corporate businesses did not put Millibore into position, the unite trade union did,.........is that as good or as bad as lobbyists?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Tytoalba
Oct 26 2014, 11:18 PM
Major Sinic
Oct 26 2014, 06:09 PM
Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU. Even in Nigel Farage's wildest dreams the maximum number of seats which UKIP will win in a FPtP General Election is 25. However the populist vote for UKIP, largely supplied by disgruntled Tories and a minority of traditional white employed Labour voters, will almost certainly lose the Conservatives a multiple of that number of seats and certainly far more than Labour. In essence the more votes UKIP get the more likely we are to get a Labour Government. Simples! A Labour government means that the British taxpayers will be alternately and regularly shafted by an anti-business, anti-wealth creator, anti middle-class government and a voracious, profligate, greedy, unaccountable, undemocratic European Commission.

The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. I have no great regard for Cameron but he is absolutely right when he says a vote for UKIP is in effect a vote for Labour. I find much in UKIP's muddled political philosophy either tolerable, acceptable or desirable but it will not be in a position to deliver us from the EU or to save us from the incompetence, prejudice and undoubted profligacy of a Labour Government.

It is possible , with the growing support for the Scottish Nationalist party, that Labour will lose more seats to the SNP, than the Conservatives willl lose to UKIP.
If UKIP get 25 seats, then they can certainly be part of a coalition government, and if more Conservatives are defecting to them as is claimed, then the logical conclusion will be a Conservative /UKIP coalition.
It is not the number of seats which the Conservatives will lose directly to UKIP, it is the number of seats they will lose to Labour because of a loss of votes to UKIP which is the issue.

Broadly speaking right of centre support is around 50% but it is largely split between two political parties thus diluting each parties vote. With PR we would have a probable right wing coalition as you suggest, but with FPtP we are likely to be faced with a rainbow coalition of Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens et al all demanding a high price and disproportionate price for supporting Labour at the expense of the majority.

The only reason the Conservatives have anything resembling a chance of victory next May is because many of the electorate who do not view the last Labour Government through rose tinted spectacles like some on this forum, and remember only too well the disaster that was Labour, orchestrated in great part by the two clowns who now want the electorate to give them another chance to make an even bigger mess of things.

Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Oct 27 2014, 12:36 AM
"Give in to lobbyists with "loads o' money", and invite corporate business to advise on all government policy."

Corporate businesses did not put Millibore into position, the unite trade union did,.........is that as good or as bad as lobbyists?

Not the demon Trade Unions again, oh dear. That war was fought thirty years ago, it's over.
But here you are, desperate for another 'scary' monster to frighten fence sitters with ...... and imagining the Unions are one but not wanting to admit for one second that Corporate business have usurped democracy.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Major Sinic
Oct 27 2014, 08:32 AM


The only reason the Conservatives have anything resembling a chance of victory next May is because many of the electorate who do not view the last Labour Government through rose tinted spectacles like some on this forum, and remember only too well the disaster that was Labour, orchestrated in great part by the two clowns who now want the electorate to give them another chance to make an even bigger mess of things.



And yet another BOO presenter, another that has been immersed in scare tactics. Alas the people you might want to swallow this BS will not be able to recall that either Ed M, or Ed B, were in, or the roles they played during the last Labour Gov't ......... even most Tory supporters knew nothing much of either until 2010.

If hey do remember anything at all of the first decade, it will be of how good it was until the bankers screwed up.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 06:51 PM
I maintain that the vast majority of the UK's chronic problems are caused by itself to itself.

Blaming Europe and laughingly thinking we can take on the world with our dire productivity and woeful lack of investment, unless it is made of bricks and mortar of course, is not only a sad case of self delusion but has potentially terminal economic consequences.

Europe is changing and Britain hates change. Tough.
Absolute bilge, the converse is the truth. Britain loves change and it is the EU that resists modernisation. The EU open market for products was pushed through by the Brits and the same is now taking place on services. The EU budget is a mine-field that needs to be destroyed and then reestablished to meet the needs of the future, but those sucking on the tits for generations resist change. The greatest stimulus for change in the EU was and is the UK. Tig you talk such arrant nonsense and I can only assume you make it up as you go along as none of your claims ever appear to be based on facts.
Take note it was the UK that warned the EU about the risks of establishing the Euro and here it's warnings were prescient.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Oct 27 2014, 11:11 AM
Major Sinic
Oct 27 2014, 08:32 AM


The only reason the Conservatives have anything resembling a chance of victory next May is because many of the electorate who do not view the last Labour Government through rose tinted spectacles like some on this forum, and remember only too well the disaster that was Labour, orchestrated in great part by the two clowns who now want the electorate to give them another chance to make an even bigger mess of things.



And yet another BOO presenter, another that has been immersed in scare tactics. Alas the people you might want to swallow this BS will not be able to recall that either Ed M, or Ed B, were in, or the roles they played during the last Labour Gov't ......... even most Tory supporters knew nothing much of either until 2010.

If hey do remember anything at all of the first decade, it will be of how good it was until the bankers screwed up.


Now that is a very rosy view. With growth in taxes based on a Financial Services and Housing bubble, with manufacturing value added running off to Asia I really do not understand how it is possible to make such a claim. Without the nasty Bankers the bubble was going to eventually burst, they only exposed the truth of the situation and that was that NL had pumped up Big Nanny to a size we could not afford even before 2007.

The most pressing problem we have is the continued growth in our national debt and the continued growth in ownership of that debt outside of the £Sterling zone. This Gov. fiddled and made modest reductions, but Labour would make none they would add to the problem. I am very disappointed with the Tories, but a Labour Gov. in 2015 would be an unspeakable disaster for the UK and a slap in the face for future generations. My goodness what a selfish bunch.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Britain loves change
Define what or who you mean by Britain.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 12:06 PM
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Britain loves change
Define what or who you mean by Britain.
Why?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:11 PM
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 12:06 PM
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Britain loves change
Define what or who you mean by Britain.
Why?
Because most of the people I know hate change and will besiege any council meeting that is going to discuss it.
Also it appears around 75% of the population are against fracking, immigration, HS2, and the 3rd runway at Heathrow. (Those are just examples.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Boxter
Member Avatar
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
When you voted at the last British General election did you vote so that a Maoist Communist could come along and at the drop of a hat to take £59 each out of your bank account for every man woman and child in your house plus a £1 each for every day Mr Cameron defies him by not paying his total demand for £1.7 billion. PLUS the same Maoist Communist Manuel Barosso has promised to repeat the exercise next year already

You didn’t!! Well VOTE CONSERVATIVE LIB DEM or LABOUR PARTIES GET MAOIST COMMUNIST BANK ROBBER MANUEL BAROSSO
Stop this madness for good demand our referendum NOW and vote UKIP
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 12:17 PM
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:11 PM
papasmurf
Oct 27 2014, 12:06 PM
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Britain loves change
Define what or who you mean by Britain.
Why?
Because most of the people I know hate change and will besiege any council meeting that is going to discuss it.
Also it appears around 75% of the population are against fracking, immigration, HS2, and the 3rd runway at Heathrow. (Those are just examples.)
Do you mean 75% of those voicing an opinion. My sons love change and they make no protestations. Whilst there are Luddites everywhere best they wake up and look around as we do have to earn a living in this World.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Boxter
Oct 27 2014, 02:51 PM
When you voted at the last British General election did you vote so that a Maoist Communist could come along and at the drop of a hat to take £59 each out of your bank account for every man woman and child in your house plus a £1 each for every day Mr Cameron defies him by not paying his total demand for £1.7 billion. PLUS the same Maoist Communist Manuel Barosso has promised to repeat the exercise next year already

You didn’t!! Well VOTE CONSERVATIVE LIB DEM or LABOUR PARTIES GET MAOIST COMMUNIST BANK ROBBER MANUEL BAROSSO
Stop this madness for good demand our referendum NOW and vote UKIP
I do not think you can put the blame on Barosso, we should understand what it is we have signed up for! However, I wish to see the detailed calculations and those regulations that claim we must swallow any claim without a murmur and cough up directly.
I think Cameron has boxed himself into a corner and hope he has the bottle to wield a handbag. He has a position to swing from as he objected and received support for the moderation of the EU budget. The MEPs backtracked on this, now it is time to determine where the power lies. Are we still a sovereign State yes or no? He should just declare that we will not pay one Penny until the matter of the EU budget has been concluded between the sovereign member States and wait to see what happens. If they wish to play hard ball he can offer a UK referendum on the matter of UK membership sooner rather than later.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:05 PM


a Labour Gov. in 2015 would be an unspeakable disaster for the UK and a slap in the face for future generations. My goodness what a selfish bunch.


Not dissimilar to the rhetoric in 1997 ....... Labour would return us to the Dark ages. The hard won recovery of the UK would be lost. The Unions would return to power, everything would be worse.
And when it wasn't worse, when things did get better, the rhetoric had none of it - they are riding on the bubble, the growth the Tories created, it won't last. The economic cycle will catch them out.
And when it did last, it was all the success of Business, the FS Sector, an economy these Tories were adamant they would keep floating and services they would match spend on ........
short memories some people ....... now how many do remember what the Eds were doing all this time?

I have no time, respect, or liking for either ........ but I will not accuse them of failure until they actually do fail.



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Boxter
Oct 27 2014, 02:51 PM
When you voted at the last British General election did you vote so that a Maoist Communist could come along and at the drop of a hat to take £59 each out of your bank account for every man woman and child in your house plus a £1 each for every day Mr Cameron defies him by not paying his total demand for £1.7 billion. PLUS the same Maoist Communist Manuel Barosso has promised to repeat the exercise next year already

You didn’t!! Well VOTE CONSERVATIVE LIB DEM or LABOUR PARTIES GET MAOIST COMMUNIST BANK ROBBER MANUEL BAROSSO
Stop this madness for good demand our referendum NOW and vote UKIP
But you have this all wrong - well according to UKIP you do

Just last week they were telling us our contribution was £20B a year (£55M a day) and now we find it's just £10B. So according to UKIP maths we now have a £10B rebate.

In other news will UKIP say that the UK population is less than 10 million? No wait they've done that already !jk!
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Boxter
Member Avatar
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
This £1.7 billion raid on British success will stymie and define all similar successes in the years ahead.

In future it will entirely depend on how badly the ailing men of the EU are struggling who (LIKE THE GERMAN ECONOMY CURRENTLY APPARENTLY) are needing to cream off our top line that will determine our net rates of future growth and progress.

The most puzzling thing about this arbitrary redistribution of wealth which is currently being overseen and directed by a Maoist Communist Manuel Barosso whilst an arch Tory PM of this country who would bask in Mrs Thatchers glow BUT is renderded totally impotent to prevent it happening!

JUST THINK IF WE CAN TOSS 1.7BILLION AROUND LIKE THIS WHAT THAT MONEY COULD HAVE ACHIEVED IF SHREWDLY INVESTED IN ADVANCING THE UK ECONOMY INSTEAD OF SQUANDERED BY PEOPLE WE NEVER EVER EVEN ELECTED!

Ohh and by the way the last time Cameron was threatening to grow a pair was back in May this year when the EU robbed our taxpayers for a paltry £500 million to plug a mysterious £3.8 billion hole which suddeny appeared in their budget. HE PAID UP AND SHUT UP ON THAT OCCASION TOO

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/478850/The-latest-EU-cash-demand-is-an-insult-to-European-voters
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Tigger
Oct 26 2014, 06:51 PM
I maintain that the vast majority of the UK's chronic problems are caused by itself to itself.

Blaming Europe and laughingly thinking we can take on the world with our dire productivity and woeful lack of investment, unless it is made of bricks and mortar of course, is not only a sad case of self delusion but has potentially terminal economic consequences.

Europe is changing and Britain hates change. Tough.
Absolute bilge, the converse is the truth. Britain loves change and it is the EU that resists modernisation. The EU open market for products was pushed through by the Brits and the same is now taking place on services. The EU budget is a mine-field that needs to be destroyed and then reestablished to meet the needs of the future, but those sucking on the tits for generations resist change. The greatest stimulus for change in the EU was and is the UK. Tig you talk such arrant nonsense and I can only assume you make it up as you go along as none of your claims ever appear to be based on facts.
Take note it was the UK that warned the EU about the risks of establishing the Euro and here it's warnings were prescient.
Britain likes change! Are you serious? !clp!

And nice of you to skip all those chronic problems I so kindly reminded you of, problems you have no serious answers for other that go after big nanny and the less well off.


We veto banking reform, we won't participate in a single currency in fact we cheer on the wreckers, we want opt outs even when it will give ordinary folks better rights than they get from our own Parliament, we ignore the momentous changes going on across the water and somehow hope that it will all go away, we cling onto archaic weights as measures as if it is the very heart and soul of our nation, we constantly look backwards for inspiration instead of forward, we sell off everything that is not bolted down to foreigners and then blame the poor for our economic woes, in fact I could go on for virtually ever with this list! The real problem the Little Englanders like you have is foreigners are not like us.

Senile fool! ;D
Edited by Tigger, Oct 28 2014, 12:01 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Boxter
Oct 27 2014, 11:49 PM
This £1.7 billion raid on British success will stymie and define all similar successes in the years ahead.

In future it will entirely depend on how badly the ailing men of the EU are struggling who (LIKE THE GERMAN ECONOMY CURRENTLY APPARENTLY) are needing to cream off our top line that will determine our net rates of future growth and progress.

The most puzzling thing about this arbitrary redistribution of wealth which is currently being overseen and directed by a Maoist Communist Manuel Barosso whilst an arch Tory PM of this country who would bask in Mrs Thatchers glow BUT is renderded totally impotent to prevent it happening!

JUST THINK IF WE CAN TOSS 1.7BILLION AROUND LIKE THIS WHAT THAT MONEY COULD HAVE ACHIEVED IF SHREWDLY INVESTED IN ADVANCING THE UK ECONOMY INSTEAD OF SQUANDERED BY PEOPLE WE NEVER EVER EVEN ELECTED!

Ohh and by the way the last time Cameron was threatening to grow a pair was back in May this year when the EU robbed our taxpayers for a paltry £500 million to plug a mysterious £3.8 billion hole which suddeny appeared in their budget. HE PAID UP AND SHUT UP ON THAT OCCASION TOO

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/478850/The-latest-EU-cash-demand-is-an-insult-to-European-voters
May I suggest you read publications such as The Economist or the WSJ instead of the Express? ;-)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Oct 27 2014, 12:05 PM
Affa
Oct 27 2014, 11:11 AM
Major Sinic
Oct 27 2014, 08:32 AM


The only reason the Conservatives have anything resembling a chance of victory next May is because many of the electorate who do not view the last Labour Government through rose tinted spectacles like some on this forum, and remember only too well the disaster that was Labour, orchestrated in great part by the two clowns who now want the electorate to give them another chance to make an even bigger mess of things.



And yet another BOO presenter, another that has been immersed in scare tactics. Alas the people you might want to swallow this BS will not be able to recall that either Ed M, or Ed B, were in, or the roles they played during the last Labour Gov't ......... even most Tory supporters knew nothing much of either until 2010.

If hey do remember anything at all of the first decade, it will be of how good it was until the bankers screwed up.


Now that is a very rosy view. With growth in taxes based on a Financial Services and Housing bubble, with manufacturing value added running off to Asia I really do not understand how it is possible to make such a claim. Without the nasty Bankers the bubble was going to eventually burst, they only exposed the truth of the situation and that was that NL had pumped up Big Nanny to a size we could not afford even before 2007.

The most pressing problem we have is the continued growth in our national debt and the continued growth in ownership of that debt outside of the £Sterling zone. This Gov. fiddled and made modest reductions, but Labour would make none they would add to the problem. I am very disappointed with the Tories, but a Labour Gov. in 2015 would be an unspeakable disaster for the UK and a slap in the face for future generations. My goodness what a selfish bunch.
Which party is going to tackle the real problem Britain has?

The problem that your generation is pricing out it's own children and grandchildren from their own country and priming a debt time bomb that will explode not long after you and many of the others are safely underground.

The Tory party is part of the problem not the solution.........

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Boxter
Oct 26 2014, 07:36 PM
So the bonkers UKIPPERS are the only ones who think that UK taxpayer being saddled with a bill to bale out the Germans for one is fine and dandy. The fact that theres no one in the current establishment that have even a single word or even any input whatsoever into such lunatic decisions makes a total mockery of all illusions of representative democracy in this blighted country. As my previous example of Graham & Brown proves there will always be trade beyond the sinking EU and as they sell us more than we sell them they wont want to rock that boat if we quit unless they have a completely suicidal tendency.
Bail out the Germans! ;D

Do you understand anything about even basic economics!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lewis
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Oct 26 2014, 11:18 PM
Major Sinic
Oct 26 2014, 06:09 PM
Just how will voting for UKIP extricate us from the democratic joke which is the EU. Even in Nigel Farage's wildest dreams the maximum number of seats which UKIP will win in a FPtP General Election is 25. However the populist vote for UKIP, largely supplied by disgruntled Tories and a minority of traditional white employed Labour voters, will almost certainly lose the Conservatives a multiple of that number of seats and certainly far more than Labour. In essence the more votes UKIP get the more likely we are to get a Labour Government. Simples! A Labour government means that the British taxpayers will be alternately and regularly shafted by an anti-business, anti-wealth creator, anti middle-class government and a voracious, profligate, greedy, unaccountable, undemocratic European Commission.

The only government which will provide us with a say on whether we stay or go is a Conservative one. I have no great regard for Cameron but he is absolutely right when he says a vote for UKIP is in effect a vote for Labour. I find much in UKIP's muddled political philosophy either tolerable, acceptable or desirable but it will not be in a position to deliver us from the EU or to save us from the incompetence, prejudice and undoubted profligacy of a Labour Government.

It is possible , with the growing support for the Scottish Nationalist party, that Labour will lose more seats to the SNP, than the Conservatives willl lose to UKIP.
If UKIP get 25 seats, then they can certainly be part of a coalition government, and if more Conservatives are defecting to them as is claimed, then the logical conclusion will be a Conservative /UKIP coalition.
Actually if UKIP were to go into coalition with the incompetents then Scameron will have to go. One of Farage's preconditions.

However the best scenario is that UKIP rob votes off the incompetents so we get a Labour government. Best result we could expect.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Add Reply