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Bad news for Ed.......AND Dave!
Topic Started: Oct 30 2014, 06:50 PM (724 Views)
Alberich
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Alberich
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An interesting new poll in Scotland (IpsosMori) has SNP on 52%, Labour on 23%, the Tories on 10%, and the Lib Dems at the back of the queue with 6%. If this is translated into Westminster seats, it would mean that the SNP would end up with 54 MP's, and Labour would be reduced to only 4 MP's from north of the border. On first viewing this is good news for the nation, as it reduces the chances of Labour gaining an overall majority; which would be a disaster of biblical proportions. But if the conservatives also fail to gain an overall majority, then it would suggest another coalition parliament. The Lib Dems will be irrelevant, as they face wipe-out come the election. The unknown quantity is UKIP. They MAY achieve the much vaunted breakthrough, and gain a considerable number of MPs, but on the other hand they may simply be a convenient peg for the protest vote, and their support may well collapse as voters return to their traditional parties.

But if the Scottish poll is accurate, then the SNP could find itself in the strange position of actually holding the balance of power at Westminster....and then what? It seems to me that Dave needs to resolve the West Lothian problem very quickly, and neuter the powers of Scottish MPs to have such a stranglehold on English legislation, otherwise we will be in very strange waters indeed.
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Affa
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Quote:
 
Still convinced of the need for austerity?


Tytoalba
Nov 7 2014, 07:13 PM







Yes, until our dept is paid off, and the books are ballanced.
Then there will be a lot more money to be used for the acts of generosiy that you desire. No more interest being paid out, and that, added to the no longer needed repayments of loans, used for social needs. and unforseen eventualities.
I would suggest that responsible people on this board conduct their own lives in exactly that way, payinng off or having paid off their mortguahes and loans, whilst at the same time protecting their own and their decendants welfare and future.

It surpring how ones standards of living, disposable income, and peace of mind is improved when ones mortguage and debts are paid off forever. For most of us , our disposable income gives us our quality of life.



Has not the fact that the debt just keeps on increasing during this Austerity drive registered?
That alone should convince you that without growth in GDP, in real Jobs, in real earnings, there will be no 'balancing'.
And so no prospect of an end to Welfare depency on the scale we endure.

My comment about the coalition was pointing out that the alternative to borrowing is to raise the level of taxation (to somewhere where it had been for decades - under Mrs Thatcher eg).
Do not make the mistake of thinking I endorse this sort of increase in tax as the whole solution - it isn't. But it would tackle the defict (priority 1 Osborne told us - he lied), and thereby cut borrowing and with it the amount of interest being paid out.








Edited by Affa, Nov 7 2014, 10:38 PM.
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disgruntled porker
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Older than most people think I am.
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RJD
Nov 7 2014, 05:15 PM
C-too
Nov 6 2014, 06:11 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 4 2014, 11:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 3 2014, 11:20 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep"why is it a crime in the eyes of these right whingers, these days to be poor (lowly paid) and down on your luck?"
Are there any 'poor' poster on this board, or are they all comfortably off within reasonable measures?
What you will see is that the left wing posters , who are for the most part the same reasonably off, always want to improve the life of the 'poor' with other peoples money. not putting their own money where their mouths are.
Perhaps a few pence or pounds into a held out charity bowl just like Milliband to give the right impression and to salve their own consciences and feelings of guilt.

My wife who suffers from Parkinsons disease, and is having diffilculty with her walking, has just finished collecting fo the Children in need by calling at all our neighbourd doors, and beyond, and has raised £84+.
Now that is practical Conservatimm in action, and no wearing of a bleeding heart on her sleeve.
Silly comment, the balance of wealth in the country is a government responsibility. You have shown as have some others on this board, that any suggestion of wealthier people in society and especially really rich people contributing extra in order to pull the country out of the mire is just a greedy selfish horrendous suggestion made, incidentally, by the least rewarded and most exploited people in society.
Nobody objects to the fact that those that can pay the Lion's Share and increasingly those that cannot pay much pay nothing, it is the waste that rankles. We could remove the public sector overhang if we had the gonads and cut out the fat of what is a very bloated public sector. Trouble is that every time anyone, a Tory, tries to improve costs and services you get the same predictable ignorant response from the moronic left namely "nasty Party". Unless the left and their political Party, namely Labour, are prepared to address the matter of efficiency within the public sector and ensure sensible and wise investments with our money then they should not be trusted with the purse. Look the two Eds are not trusted with the purse and claiming this is the result of propaganda only compounds the problem. Labour and the left will not face up to the fact that Taxpayers, all of them, whether large payers or small, are sick to death of the waste and/or lack of justification. If you held a referendum on cutting the cost of the Public Sector you would find the vast majority, even those employed there, are for. Nobody in the UK, well at least England, wish to become a copy of Socialist France. The left have run out of ideas and good examples.
A wee bit of a problem there. Your first sentence appears to be a complete U turn on your previous ideologies. In the past, you have always defended the better off, saying they should only pay into the pot the same as everyone else. To suggest they should contribute more is the politics of envy.

Once again you spout about the public sector and waste, and the fact that when the Tories try to improve costs and services and are met with disdain from the lefties. Any idea why the disdain? Well I'll tell you. They cut the "wasteful" public sector to replace it with services provided by private sector companies, all the time saying how much better and VFM it all is. The problem is that these private sector companies, for the most part, don't pass muster. They either can't provide the service at all, or can't do it for the tendered cost. I suggest that this is not improvement in any way, shape or form. G4 is a fine example.
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Stan Still
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Lewis
Nov 7 2014, 10:27 PM
Stan Still
Nov 7 2014, 06:47 PM
Alberich
Oct 30 2014, 07:15 PM
Lewis
Oct 30 2014, 07:04 PM
Who cares, just as long as we don't get another Tory incompetent government again.
Nothing like a well reasoned response to a debating point...is there, Lewis?
True his post was nothing like a well reasoned response at all ;D
Ah very droll Stanley! Duly disregarded of course. What else do we expect from a lightweight like you though!
Whatever, !jk! I forgot one is not supposed to have a sense of humour Comrade Ah well back to the Gulag again I go ::)
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RJD
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Tigger
Nov 7 2014, 06:40 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 4 2014, 11:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 3 2014, 11:20 AM
Steve K
Nov 3 2014, 09:19 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep"why is it a crime in the eyes of these right whingers, these days to be poor (lowly paid) and down on your luck?" is an absurd exaggeration?
I don't think it's an exageration when it's the impression that certain posters on here give in abundance.
Are there any 'poor' poster on this board, or are they all comfortably off within reasonable measures?
What you will see is that the left wing posters , who are for the most part the same reasonably off, always want to improve the life of the 'poor' with other peoples money. not putting their own money where their mouths are.
Perhaps a few pence or pounds into a held out charity bowl just like Milliband to give the right impression and to salve their own consciences and feelings of guilt.

My wife who suffers from Parkinsons disease, and is having diffilculty with her walking, has just finished collecting fo the Children in need by calling at all our neighbourd doors, and beyond, and has raised £84+.
Now that is practical Conservatimm in action, and no wearing of a bleeding heart on her sleeve.
A very sickly post with doubtless plenty of sincerity, but completely lacking any real compassion and showing traits of neo Victorian retardism.  :(


The now defunct concept of a worthy and unworthy poor is what separates us from say Somalia or Nigeria.
What we see is a lack of pragmatism replaced by bleeding hearts that are only on display to polish stunted egos. All this holier than thou crap does not factor in the lives ruined by attenuation in job creation due to taxes wasted in the Public Sector. It's jobs stupid.
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RJD
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Mr Pig: A wee bit of a problem there. Your first sentence appears to be a complete U turn on your previous ideologies. In the past, you have always defended the better off, saying they should only pay into the pot the same as everyone else. To suggest they should contribute more is the politics of envy.


A bare faced lie. I have never ever said that those that can should not pay the Lion's share and those that cannot should pay more. I have long espoused the view here that those we classify as poor should not be burdened by taxes. My complaint is the stupidity of many on the left who claim or imply that the poor are shouldering the burden and a simple solution is just to tax the rich more. As we have seen attacking the rich in such a crude manner can be counterproductive and yes such as the Mansion Tax, computed to garner <£1b PA is only to satisfy the vulgar emotions of the envy and spite brigade. Come back with a method to take ~£20b PA from the top 5% say and distribute this among the bottom 10% say in a sustainable way without harming the overall economy then you will have me interest. Until you do you are no more than another lefty whinger who is not prepared to face the reality of the situation and that is public spending in the UK is far too high and it is as a consequence killing job creation in the private sector. That is a fact an indisputable one.

Mr Pig: Once again you spout about the public sector and waste, and the fact that when the Tories try to improve costs and services and are met with disdain from the lefties. Any idea why the disdain? Well I'll tell you. They cut the "wasteful" public sector to replace it with services provided by private sector companies, all the time saying how much better and VFM it all is. The problem is that these private sector companies, for the most part, don't pass muster. They either can't provide the service at all, or can't do it for the tendered cost. I suggest that this is not improvement in any way, shape or form. G4 is a fine example.

Better put some flesh on the bone before you start spreading even more lies. Are you claiming that all organs of the State are working efficiently, if so why is it that productivity has declined in the Public Sector, but increased year in year out in the private one? Mr Pig you better do some research.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 7 2014, 05:15 PM
C-too
Nov 6 2014, 06:11 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 4 2014, 11:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 3 2014, 11:20 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep"why is it a crime in the eyes of these right whingers, these days to be poor (lowly paid) and down on your luck?"
Are there any 'poor' poster on this board, or are they all comfortably off within reasonable measures?
What you will see is that the left wing posters , who are for the most part the same reasonably off, always want to improve the life of the 'poor' with other peoples money. not putting their own money where their mouths are.
Perhaps a few pence or pounds into a held out charity bowl just like Milliband to give the right impression and to salve their own consciences and feelings of guilt.

My wife who suffers from Parkinsons disease, and is having diffilculty with her walking, has just finished collecting fo the Children in need by calling at all our neighbourd doors, and beyond, and has raised £84+.
Now that is practical Conservatimm in action, and no wearing of a bleeding heart on her sleeve.
Silly comment, the balance of wealth in the country is a government responsibility. You have shown as have some others on this board, that any suggestion of wealthier people in society and especially really rich people contributing extra in order to pull the country out of the mire is just a greedy selfish horrendous suggestion made, incidentally, by the least rewarded and most exploited people in society.
Nobody objects to the fact that those that can pay the Lion's Share and increasingly those that cannot pay much pay nothing, it is the waste that rankles. We could remove the public sector overhang if we had the gonads and cut out the fat of what is a very bloated public sector. Trouble is that every time anyone, a Tory, tries to improve costs and services you get the same predictable ignorant response from the moronic left namely "nasty Party". Unless the left and their political Party, namely Labour, are prepared to address the matter of efficiency within the public sector and ensure sensible and wise investments with our money then they should not be trusted with the purse. Look the two Eds are not trusted with the purse and claiming this is the result of propaganda only compounds the problem. Labour and the left will not face up to the fact that Taxpayers, all of them, whether large payers or small, are sick to death of the waste and/or lack of justification. If you held a referendum on cutting the cost of the Public Sector you would find the vast majority, even those employed there, are for. Nobody in the UK, well at least England, wish to become a copy of Socialist France. The left have run out of ideas and good examples.

It isn't a case of those "who pay the lions share", it's a case of thr rich paying extra just as the rest of us are. As posted more than once, the rich benefit most when the economy is good so their is a touch of justice in them contributing a little (in their terms) extra in order to help recover the economy.

"we are all in it together" aren't we?
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RJD
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Affa: Has not the fact that the debt just keeps on increasing during this Austerity drive registered? That alone should convince you that without growth in GDP, in real Jobs, in real earnings, there will be no 'balancing'. And so no prospect of an end to Welfare depency on the scale we endure.

The debt increases because we borrow to spend on current consumption in the public sector. For every job shed in the public sector in the last three years three have been created in the private one. It is well established that increases in public spending has an inverse correlation with growth, hence growth in jobs, in the private one. As long as we have a public sector deficit we will continue with high rates of taxes on consumption and on jobs. It is well understood and accepted by all, yes all, Economists that taxes on Employers, the Employer NI contribution, is paid for by depressing wage rates. Yes poor workers are through their depressed wages paying additional taxes. In an economy where we want more jobs why are we taxing them and why are we using a mechanism that allows the employee to pay?
The Public Sector by definition does not produce wealth creating jobs, it adds nothing to our export earnings, however, that does not mean we can survive without such. We just need it to be well designed to deliver and be efficient as every Penny wasted here hurts our prospects elsewhere.

Rebalancing means changing the emphasis from consumption to production and if we are to achieve such then the size of the State must be reduced and the economic environment for investment in producing jobs radically changed. The status quo is not an option, as we have seen the only growth we are getting is not creating much in the way of revenues to cover the public sector funding deficit.

Affa: My comment about the coalition was pointing out that the alternative to borrowing is to raise the level of taxation (to somewhere where it had been for decades - under Mrs Thatcher eg).


As we found out under Lawson a reduction in high levels of taxation on incomes can produce increases in revenues. See Laffer. The UK is already, in international terms, a heavily taxed country. We also have the highest property taxes in the G20. We have one of the highest, just behind France, Public Sector/GDP spends in the EU.


Affa: Do not make the mistake of thinking I endorse this sort of increase in tax as the whole solution - it isn't. But it would tackle the defict (priority 1 Osborne told us - he lied), and thereby cut borrowing and with it the amount of interest being paid out.

Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:43 AM
Affa: Has not the fact that the debt just keeps on increasing during this Austerity drive registered? That alone should convince you that without growth in GDP, in real Jobs, in real earnings, there will be no 'balancing'. And so no prospect of an end to Welfare depency on the scale we endure.

The debt increases because we borrow to spend on current consumption in the public sector. For every job shed in the public sector in the last three years three have been created in the private one. It is well established that increases in public spending has an inverse correlation with growth, hence growth in jobs, in the private one. As long as we have a public sector deficit we will continue with high rates of taxes on consumption and on jobs. It is well understood and accepted by all, yes all, Economists that taxes on Employers, the Employer NI contribution, is paid for by depressing wage rates. Yes poor workers are through their depressed wages paying additional taxes. In an economy where we want more jobs why are we taxing them and why are we using a mechanism that allows the employee to pay?
The Public Sector by definition does not produce wealth creating jobs, it adds nothing to our export earnings, however, that does not mean we can survive without such. We just need it to be well designed to deliver and be efficient as every Penny wasted here hurts our prospects elsewhere.

Rebalancing means changing the emphasis from consumption to production and if we are to achieve such then the size of the State must be reduced and the economic environment for investment in producing jobs radically changed. The status quo is not an option, as we have seen the only growth we are getting is not creating much in the way of revenues to cover the public sector funding deficit.

Affa: My comment about the coalition was pointing out that the alternative to borrowing is to raise the level of taxation (to somewhere where it had been for decades - under Mrs Thatcher eg).


As we found out under Lawson a reduction in high levels of taxation on incomes can produce increases in revenues. See Laffer. The UK is already, in international terms, a heavily taxed country. We also have the highest property taxes in the G20. We have one of the highest, just behind France, Public Sector/GDP spends in the EU.


Affa: Do not make the mistake of thinking I endorse this sort of increase in tax as the whole solution - it isn't. But it would tackle the defict (priority 1 Osborne told us - he lied), and thereby cut borrowing and with it the amount of interest being paid out.

Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
Post meltdown unemployment peaked at 2.7m (2013?), it is now around 2m yet the government claim they have created some 2m jobs. Something doesn't seem to add up to me.
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RJD
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C-too
Nov 8 2014, 10:51 AM
RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:43 AM
Affa: Has not the fact that the debt just keeps on increasing during this Austerity drive registered? That alone should convince you that without growth in GDP, in real Jobs, in real earnings, there will be no 'balancing'. And so no prospect of an end to Welfare depency on the scale we endure.

The debt increases because we borrow to spend on current consumption in the public sector. For every job shed in the public sector in the last three years three have been created in the private one. It is well established that increases in public spending has an inverse correlation with growth, hence growth in jobs, in the private one. As long as we have a public sector deficit we will continue with high rates of taxes on consumption and on jobs. It is well understood and accepted by all, yes all, Economists that taxes on Employers, the Employer NI contribution, is paid for by depressing wage rates. Yes poor workers are through their depressed wages paying additional taxes. In an economy where we want more jobs why are we taxing them and why are we using a mechanism that allows the employee to pay?
The Public Sector by definition does not produce wealth creating jobs, it adds nothing to our export earnings, however, that does not mean we can survive without such. We just need it to be well designed to deliver and be efficient as every Penny wasted here hurts our prospects elsewhere.

Rebalancing means changing the emphasis from consumption to production and if we are to achieve such then the size of the State must be reduced and the economic environment for investment in producing jobs radically changed. The status quo is not an option, as we have seen the only growth we are getting is not creating much in the way of revenues to cover the public sector funding deficit.

Affa: My comment about the coalition was pointing out that the alternative to borrowing is to raise the level of taxation (to somewhere where it had been for decades - under Mrs Thatcher eg).


As we found out under Lawson a reduction in high levels of taxation on incomes can produce increases in revenues. See Laffer. The UK is already, in international terms, a heavily taxed country. We also have the highest property taxes in the G20. We have one of the highest, just behind France, Public Sector/GDP spends in the EU.


Affa: Do not make the mistake of thinking I endorse this sort of increase in tax as the whole solution - it isn't. But it would tackle the defict (priority 1 Osborne told us - he lied), and thereby cut borrowing and with it the amount of interest being paid out.

Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
Post meltdown unemployment peaked at 2.7m (2013?), it is now around 2m yet the government claim they have created some 2m jobs. Something doesn't seem to add up to me.
I thought you understood simple arithmetic? Now here is a clue factor in economic migration and demographics. Here is another one, look at the total absolute number of jobs in the economy. Stop blowing smoke C2 it might get in peoples eyes down at the Red Nag but here readers are a lot better informed.
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Lewis
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C-too
Nov 8 2014, 10:51 AM
RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:43 AM
Affa: Has not the fact that the debt just keeps on increasing during this Austerity drive registered? That alone should convince you that without growth in GDP, in real Jobs, in real earnings, there will be no 'balancing'. And so no prospect of an end to Welfare depency on the scale we endure.

The debt increases because we borrow to spend on current consumption in the public sector. For every job shed in the public sector in the last three years three have been created in the private one. It is well established that increases in public spending has an inverse correlation with growth, hence growth in jobs, in the private one. As long as we have a public sector deficit we will continue with high rates of taxes on consumption and on jobs. It is well understood and accepted by all, yes all, Economists that taxes on Employers, the Employer NI contribution, is paid for by depressing wage rates. Yes poor workers are through their depressed wages paying additional taxes. In an economy where we want more jobs why are we taxing them and why are we using a mechanism that allows the employee to pay?
The Public Sector by definition does not produce wealth creating jobs, it adds nothing to our export earnings, however, that does not mean we can survive without such. We just need it to be well designed to deliver and be efficient as every Penny wasted here hurts our prospects elsewhere.

Rebalancing means changing the emphasis from consumption to production and if we are to achieve such then the size of the State must be reduced and the economic environment for investment in producing jobs radically changed. The status quo is not an option, as we have seen the only growth we are getting is not creating much in the way of revenues to cover the public sector funding deficit.

Affa: My comment about the coalition was pointing out that the alternative to borrowing is to raise the level of taxation (to somewhere where it had been for decades - under Mrs Thatcher eg).


As we found out under Lawson a reduction in high levels of taxation on incomes can produce increases in revenues. See Laffer. The UK is already, in international terms, a heavily taxed country. We also have the highest property taxes in the G20. We have one of the highest, just behind France, Public Sector/GDP spends in the EU.


Affa: Do not make the mistake of thinking I endorse this sort of increase in tax as the whole solution - it isn't. But it would tackle the defict (priority 1 Osborne told us - he lied), and thereby cut borrowing and with it the amount of interest being paid out.

Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
Post meltdown unemployment peaked at 2.7m (2013?), it is now around 2m yet the government claim they have created some 2m jobs. Something doesn't seem to add up to me.
Just an indication that this governments figures are a travesty of the truth, in short a big con.
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Affa
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:43 AM


RJD wrote >
Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
How can investment (government) reduce job prospects when the whole point is to stimulate economic activity and to improve the infrastructure such that the ability of the nation to function as an industrial force in enhanced, secured for future generations (remind RJD that Flood defence spending cuts cost the nation dearly - and still do put it at risk). Taxes are necessary, cutting them at this time wasn't!

The target was 'deficit reduction', the policy was for stagnation. The Treasury has not increased its income - "there is no money", and that hasn't changed either.

Reducing the deficit reduces PSBR, it reduces interest repayments, and cutting the tax burden by almost a week. cutting corporation taxes by 20% is the opposite of what is required.

You are intelligent - use it!


http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/05/kate-andrews-today-is-tax-freedom-day-but-theres-little-to-celebrate.html
Edited by Affa, Nov 8 2014, 03:08 PM.
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Affa
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GDP per capita is well down, well below its pre-crisis level ........ an indication that all that glitters is not gold.

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Affa
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There is this obsession with spin, with trying to look good (well not as bad) that occupies this government's time to such an extent that in actual fact it has done very little, nothing much to improve the economy at all. Living standards have fallen.

If the same amount of time, energy, care, and ingenuity had been committed to actually doing something useful they just might possibly have avoided this great need for spin and bullshit that they produce.

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Affa
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timed out notification is pissing me off ??????
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RJD
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Affa
Nov 8 2014, 03:07 PM
RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:43 AM


RJD wrote >
Your solution is about the worst medicine anyone could proscribe for the UK. You will kill off even more jobs, particularly those in the private sector. We need to stimulate economic activity not choke it off with even higher levels of taxation to waste in a wealth destroying public sector. Just look at our balance of trade, it is getting worse not better.
How can investment (government) reduce job prospects when the whole point is to stimulate economic activity and to improve the infrastructure such that the ability of the nation to function as an industrial force in enhanced, secured for future generations (remind RJD that Flood defence spending cuts cost the nation dearly - and still do put it at risk). Taxes are necessary, cutting them at this time wasn't!

The target was 'deficit reduction', the policy was for stagnation. The Treasury has not increased its income - "there is no money", and that hasn't changed either.

Reducing the deficit reduces PSBR, it reduces interest repayments, and cutting the tax burden by almost a week. cutting corporation taxes by 20% is the opposite of what is required.

You are intelligent - use it!


http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/05/kate-andrews-today-is-tax-freedom-day-but-theres-little-to-celebrate.html
Quite simply because the rebalancing has to be away from tax led consumption towards greater exportable production. We cannot borrow to finance imports to consume today and expect this to enrich us. We need to produce more and sell such abroad in order to offset our dreadful and worsening trade imbalance. All you offer is more borrowing from our future to finance current consumption by keeping individuals in public sector jobs we can no longer afford. The only debate is one of timing of phasing, nobody has stated that maintaining a high taxation economy with a growing national debt is sustainable, except your good self of course and the rest of the Ostriches.
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RJD
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Affa
Nov 8 2014, 03:11 PM

GDP per capita is well down, well below its pre-crisis level ........ an indication that all that glitters is not gold.

True. Hence cut costs do not bank on future growth as this may be illusionary or of poor quality.
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Affa
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 03:48 PM
We need to produce more and sell such abroad in order to offset our dreadful and worsening trade imbalance. All you offer is more borrowing from our future to finance current consumption by keeping individuals in public sector jobs we can no longer afford. The only debate is one of timing of phasing, nobody has stated that maintaining a high taxation economy with a growing national debt is sustainable, except your good self of course and the rest of the Ostriches.

Agree with the need for better production, and that may well require more investment borrowing. But what I argue is not even more borrowing but better use of borrowed money.
Osborne has borrowed money to afford a reduced tax burden on business and on the wealthy - that is not the best use of borrowed money.

Once the economy is balanced then the case for cutting taxes can be made - to do it at a time of imposed austerity is criminal imo.
And as I keep repeating, tax cuts have no beneficial effect on deficit reduction - which is the number one priority we are told.






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disgruntled porker
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Older than most people think I am.
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:24 AM
Mr Pig: A wee bit of a problem there. Your first sentence appears to be a complete U turn on your previous ideologies. In the past, you have always defended the better off, saying they should only pay into the pot the same as everyone else. To suggest they should contribute more is the politics of envy.


A bare faced lie. I have never ever said that those that can should not pay the Lion's share and those that cannot should pay more. I have long espoused the view here that those we classify as poor should not be burdened by taxes. My complaint is the stupidity of many on the left who claim or imply that the poor are shouldering the burden and a simple solution is just to tax the rich more. As we have seen attacking the rich in such a crude manner can be counterproductive and yes such as the Mansion Tax, computed to garner <£1b PA is only to satisfy the vulgar emotions of the envy and spite brigade. Come back with a method to take ~£20b PA from the top 5% say and distribute this among the bottom 10% say in a sustainable way without harming the overall economy then you will have me interest. Until you do you are no more than another lefty whinger who is not prepared to face the reality of the situation and that is public spending in the UK is far too high and it is as a consequence killing job creation in the private sector. That is a fact an indisputable one.

Mr Pig: Once again you spout about the public sector and waste, and the fact that when the Tories try to improve costs and services and are met with disdain from the lefties. Any idea why the disdain? Well I'll tell you. They cut the "wasteful" public sector to replace it with services provided by private sector companies, all the time saying how much better and VFM it all is. The problem is that these private sector companies, for the most part, don't pass muster. They either can't provide the service at all, or can't do it for the tendered cost. I suggest that this is not improvement in any way, shape or form. G4 is a fine example.

Better put some flesh on the bone before you start spreading even more lies. Are you claiming that all organs of the State are working efficiently, if so why is it that productivity has declined in the Public Sector, but increased year in year out in the private one? Mr Pig you better do some research.
Once more you are reading things into my posts which dont exist. Read the post and inwardly digest.

your arguement is centred around taxation. Much more than taxation is involved when talking about who contributes/recieves what.

Where have I made a claim about all organs of the state working perfectly? What I DID say was that where private enterprise has been awarded some contracts previously done by public sector, the result has been a bloody shambles, far worse than if it had been left alone.

Reform and restructuring is fine if it makes improvements. It is rubbish if the end result is inferior.
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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 10:12 AM
Tigger
Nov 7 2014, 06:40 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 4 2014, 11:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 3 2014, 11:20 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep"why is it a crime in the eyes of these right whingers, these days to be poor (lowly paid) and down on your luck?"
Are there any 'poor' poster on this board, or are they all comfortably off within reasonable measures?
What you will see is that the left wing posters , who are for the most part the same reasonably off, always want to improve the life of the 'poor' with other peoples money. not putting their own money where their mouths are.
Perhaps a few pence or pounds into a held out charity bowl just like Milliband to give the right impression and to salve their own consciences and feelings of guilt.

My wife who suffers from Parkinsons disease, and is having diffilculty with her walking, has just finished collecting fo the Children in need by calling at all our neighbourd doors, and beyond, and has raised £84+.
Now that is practical Conservatimm in action, and no wearing of a bleeding heart on her sleeve.
A very sickly post with doubtless plenty of sincerity, but completely lacking any real compassion and showing traits of neo Victorian retardism.  :(


The now defunct concept of a worthy and unworthy poor is what separates us from say Somalia or Nigeria.
What we see is a lack of pragmatism replaced by bleeding hearts that are only on display to polish stunted egos. All this holier than thou crap does not factor in the lives ruined by attenuation in job creation due to taxes wasted in the Public Sector. It's jobs stupid.
And talking about polishing stuff, you should stick to polishing your own turds, you must have a very big pile in need of some urgent elbow grease. ;-)

And this from someone who is constantly and hypocritically on the warpath when the nations social services spend any of your "hard earned money" (sic).

Charity should not be needed in a nation you constantly claim has the sixth biggest economy in the World.
Edited by Tigger, Nov 8 2014, 09:00 PM.
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Tigger
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disgruntled porker
Nov 8 2014, 08:37 PM
Once more you are reading things into my posts which dont exist.





That is his modus operandi, don't like the other posters comments? Then just change the meaning!

Bless him! ;D
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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 8 2014, 03:50 PM
Affa
Nov 8 2014, 03:11 PM

GDP per capita is well down, well below its pre-crisis level ........ an indication that all that glitters is not gold.

True. Hence cut costs do not bank on future growth as this may be illusionary or of poor quality.
I keep saying that asset prices need to fall, remove all props supporting them, this will of course hurt the better off but as things stand millions of wage earners cannot afford to participate in the economy, eternal growth is simply not possible in a finite World, some consolidation and regrouping is required and that means the end of subsidies for asset holders.
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