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Prosperous Britain.
Topic Started: Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM (3,370 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
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Tigger
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Comical! ;D

Britain has one of the lowest rates of social mobility in the World let alone in comparison to our direct competitors and is almost completely reliant on bent money shuffling, housing inflation and out of control consumer spending to drive growth. Frankly it's kiddies stuff and I'm not buying it anymore because my memory is a bit longer than yours.

File under, hide under the blanket and pretend all is rosy.


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johnofgwent
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"Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe."

And how many pints of beer / gallons of petrol / weeks rent / months mortgage payment will that stretch to here as opposed to there.

I don't know why the report has chosen this sum ...

But f you want a real picture of what life in the uk is like, look no further than the right hand side of your own link ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11026952/Britains-consumer-credit-market-is-a-giant-ticking-time-bomb.html
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AndyK
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I wonder what Iceland are doing right (apart from jailing bankers) ?
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Affa
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And a similar survey conducted in each of the previous four years would have given what result?


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avagrumble
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If Britain is doing so remarkably well how come we are in debt to the tune of a trillion

pounds or more. I keep saying to myself this cannot be so, because we are giving millions

of pounds to loads and loads of countries overseas, so how can we be in debt.
Perhaps having ninety percent of all goods 'Made in China' doesnt help. How in the long

term does this help the economy, manufactoring anything in Britain has shrunk to fifty

percent what it was thirty years ago. I dont think Britain is economicaly strong at all,

and could hit the imaginary wall very soon with a bang.
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Affa
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avagrumble
Nov 3 2014, 12:48 PM
If Britain is doing so remarkably well how come we are in debt to the tune of a trillion

pounds or more. I keep saying to myself this cannot be so, because we are giving millions

of pounds to loads and loads of countries overseas, so how can we be in debt.


Well I agree that the UK having the heaviest debts ought to be reason (or part of) for the EU include this in its contributions formula.
Perhaps it does?

It makes no sense to declare the UK as being the most prosperous when the deficit is still the highest in the Union ......... all of which assumes that the truth about the debt (me being one denying the 'facts') is being told - the actual truth being more likely an explanation for this increase payment.

think about it .......... The City is holding the more of the worlds debts than anyone, is drawing interest on them (£53bn UK government alone - in interest payments each year).

If Cameron does refuse to pay then he just might be exposed when the EU present the detail behind its sums ...... and the whole case for austerity collapses.

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C-too
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RJD
Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM
Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.

Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.


Norway is a major oil producer/exporter. 40% of oil imports into the UK come from Norway. Norway also have agreements that include the likes of EU free movement of migrants. Switzerland, well they do have a rather fortunate and murky background. They also had agreements with the EU that included the migration problem. They have Just voted to block migrants and we await the outcome to see just how many of the numerous, 'round the houses' agreements they had with the EU, will be dissolved.
Edited by C-too, Nov 3 2014, 02:29 PM.
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AndyK
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Affa
Nov 3 2014, 01:44 PM
avagrumble
Nov 3 2014, 12:48 PM
If Britain is doing so remarkably well how come we are in debt to the tune of a trillion

pounds or more. I keep saying to myself this cannot be so, because we are giving millions

of pounds to loads and loads of countries overseas, so how can we be in debt.


Well I agree that the UK having the heaviest debts ought to be reason (or part of) for the EU include this in its contributions formula.
Perhaps it does?

It makes no sense to declare the UK as being the most prosperous when the deficit is still the highest in the Union ......... all of which assumes that the truth about the debt (me being one denying the 'facts') is being told - the actual truth being more likely an explanation for this increase payment.

think about it .......... The City is holding the more of the worlds debts than anyone, is drawing interest on them (£53bn UK government alone - in interest payments each year).

If Cameron does refuse to pay then he just might be exposed when the EU present the detail behind its sums ...... and the whole case for austerity collapses.

UK debt isn't that far out of wack compared with our peers,as a percentage of GDP

UK - 90%,
Germany - 80%,
France - 93%.

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Heinrich
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One in five British children live below the poverty line with the number rising to nearly half in the most deprived areas of Manchester ...
Poverty in Britain

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A British Lad
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Affa
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AndyK
Nov 3 2014, 04:02 PM
Affa
Nov 3 2014, 01:44 PM
avagrumble
Nov 3 2014, 12:48 PM
If Britain is doing so remarkably well how come we are in debt to the tune of a trillion

pounds or more. I keep saying to myself this cannot be so, because we are giving millions

of pounds to loads and loads of countries overseas, so how can we be in debt.



It makes no sense to declare the UK as being the most prosperous when the deficit is still the highest in the Union .........

If Cameron does refuse to pay then he just might be exposed when the EU present the detail behind its sums ...... and the whole case for austerity collapses.

UK debt isn't that far out of wack compared with our peers,as a percentage of GDP

UK - 90%,
Germany - 80%,
France - 93%.

UK debt isn't that far out of wack compared with our peers,as a percentage of GDP

UK - 90%, ....................... Deficit = 6%
Germany - 80%, .............. Deficit = zero%
France - 93%. ............ .... Deficit = 4.3%

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AndyK
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^Yes sorry I misread that as debt rather than deficit, yes the deficit is terrible.
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Affa
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AndyK
Nov 3 2014, 11:14 PM
^Yes sorry I misread that as debt rather than deficit, yes the deficit is terrible.

No apology required, you are equally correct to bring the debt into the equation as I am to mention the deficit.
The point being that it makes no sense to declare the UK as being in a stronger position when as of today there has been very little recovery on the deficit front - an indication that this GDP growth has not trickled down, has not raised government revenues (but ii is demanded must raise EU revenues), and living standards continue to fall ......... and the real point I try to make is that all talk of debt (yes debt) is contrived to usher in an austerity programme.

The money is there, it's not being invested, and so the economy stagnates, whilst the Bankers sit on piles of it. eg.
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf


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Rich
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Affa
Nov 3 2014, 11:39 PM
AndyK
Nov 3 2014, 11:14 PM
^Yes sorry I misread that as debt rather than deficit, yes the deficit is terrible.

No apology required, you are equally correct to bring the debt into the equation as I am to mention the deficit.
The point being that it makes no sense to declare the UK as being in a stronger position when as of today there has been very little recovery on the deficit front - an indication that this GDP growth has not trickled down, has not raised government revenues (but ii is demanded must raise EU revenues), and living standards continue to fall ......... and the real point I try to make is that all talk of debt (yes debt) is contrived to usher in an austerity programme.

The money is there, it's not being invested, and so the economy stagnates, whilst the Bankers sit on piles of it. eg.
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf




I rather think that low wages to immigrants and thus any brit that can be bothered to work are not translating into tax revenues especially when welfare and benefits are factored in.
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scorpio
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RJD
Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM
Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
Prosperous

1) having or characterized by financial success or good fortune; flourishing; successful:
a prosperous business.

2) well-to-do or well-off:
a prosperous family.

Himm. I don't think prosperous is the right word, because there is so much debt.

And if the country is so prosperous, why is that financial success, not better distributed, amongst the people of the country.

And if the country is so financially successful, why are there predictions of further financial recession next year.

Sounds like a bullshit article, from someone who has their arse in the air, and their head in the sand.
Edited by scorpio, Nov 3 2014, 11:51 PM.
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Heinrich
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scorpio
Nov 3 2014, 11:50 PM
Prosperous

1) having or characterized by financial success or good fortune; flourishing; successful:
a prosperous business.

2) well-to-do or well-off:
a prosperous family.

Himm. I don't think prosperous is the right word, because there is so much debt.

And if the country is so prosperous, why is that financial success, not better distributed, amongst the people of the country.

And if the country is so financially successful, why are there predictions of further financial recession next year.

Sounds like a bullshit article, from someone who has their arse in the air, and their head in the sand.
It is obscene for Tory mouthpieces to claim that there is prosperity in Britain when so many ordinary people cannot make ends meet.

Posted Image
Happy poor children in Tyneside (England)
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Lewis
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RJD
Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM
Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
A posting by someone who is even more out of touch than his Tory incompetent leadership.

Totally unbelievable of course.
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AndyK
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Affa
Nov 3 2014, 11:39 PM
AndyK
Nov 3 2014, 11:14 PM
^Yes sorry I misread that as debt rather than deficit, yes the deficit is terrible.

No apology required, you are equally correct to bring the debt into the equation as I am to mention the deficit.
The point being that it makes no sense to declare the UK as being in a stronger position when as of today there has been very little recovery on the deficit front - an indication that this GDP growth has not trickled down, has not raised government revenues (but ii is demanded must raise EU revenues), and living standards continue to fall ......... and the real point I try to make is that all talk of debt (yes debt) is contrived to usher in an austerity programme.

The money is there, it's not being invested, and so the economy stagnates, whilst the Bankers sit on piles of it. eg.
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf


I don't think the banks are sitting on piles of cash.

If they were, there would not be any leverage, but there is, and besides, it makes no sense for banks to have cash sitting there doing nothing, they'd be losing money. Yes they are lending less than they used too, but that's because they are being forced to hold more capital to reduce their leverage. The regulators need to sort out their priorities because the banks are being pulled in two different directions.

Having had a look at the French deficit position, it appears the difference with the UK is that they have 3 times more tax inspectors than us and a very aggressive tax collecting regime. This in turn means that their black economy is much smaller.

I guess this is part of the reason those calais camps exists, the illegal immigrants can just disappear into the UK black market and never show up the stats and never generate any tax. They can't easily get away with that in France.

Some lessons to be learned by Mr Osbourne there, sack some nurses and hire some tax inspectors instead.
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C-too
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Rich
Nov 3 2014, 11:48 PM
Affa
Nov 3 2014, 11:39 PM
AndyK
Nov 3 2014, 11:14 PM
^Yes sorry I misread that as debt rather than deficit, yes the deficit is terrible.

No apology required, you are equally correct to bring the debt into the equation as I am to mention the deficit.
The point being that it makes no sense to declare the UK as being in a stronger position when as of today there has been very little recovery on the deficit front - an indication that this GDP growth has not trickled down, has not raised government revenues (but ii is demanded must raise EU revenues), and living standards continue to fall ......... and the real point I try to make is that all talk of debt (yes debt) is contrived to usher in an austerity programme.

The money is there, it's not being invested, and so the economy stagnates, whilst the Bankers sit on piles of it. eg.
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf




I rather think that low wages to immigrants and thus any brit that can be bothered to work are not translating into tax revenues especially when welfare and benefits are factored in.
I think that it is the percentage of the population on the minimum wage that is the problem. While this problem has increased by immigration (no one seems able to put a figure on this) the problem of skilled and unskilled people on a low income or on the minimum wage has been with us since the 1980s.

The main political parties (which I exclude UKip from) recognise the need to reconstruct the economy. They understand that we need to re enter the wider world of industry which will have a couple of positive knock-on effects such as; More skilled people on a higher income and paying tax with more employment opportunities for unskilled and therefore fewer people unemployed claiming off the state.
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RJD
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The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
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Heinrich
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RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
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RJD
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Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
I could make exactly the same asinine claim about the last Labour Gov. That said it would also be totally off topic. The claim is not that the UK is not a turd, but a more polished one than others relatively speaking. Those that wish to run down the UK for whatever reason ought to do so from the background of how we stand against the backdrop of others. Clearly Switzerland needs more of our attention. How can this small country with no raw materials, little agricultural land, landlocked with no easy routes to major Ports that serve the global markets, the highest portion of immigrants in it's working population manage to have done so well and considered to be well governed? I wonder whether it has anything to do with the fact that it has never had a Labour styled Gov? I wonder if the fact that Joe Public keeps Politicians on a short leash and disapproves of those that treat politics as if it were an arm of showbiz? Why is it that the Swiss have decided they wish to remain responsible for most of their own life-style decisions, such as health, education and pensions and have kept the State at arms length? Why did the Swiss when the EU tried to impose a limited working week, tell the Gov. to mind it's own business effectively telling them this was a private matter.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 4 2014, 01:48 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

I could make exactly the same asinine claim about the last Labour Gov. That said it would also be totally off topic. The claim is not that the UK is not a turd, but a more polished one than others relatively speaking. Those that wish to run down the UK for whatever reason ought to do so from the background of how we stand against the backdrop of others. Clearly Switzerland needs more of our attention. How can this small country with no raw materials, little agricultural land, landlocked with no easy routes to major Ports that serve the global markets, the highest portion of immigrants in it's working population manage to have done so well and considered to be well governed? I wonder whether it has anything to do with the fact that it has never had a Labour styled Gov? I wonder if the fact that Joe Public keeps Politicians on a short leash and disapproves of those that treat politics as if it were an arm of showbiz? Why is it that the Swiss have decided they wish to remain responsible for most of their own life-style decisions, such as health, education and pensions and have kept the State at arms length? Why did the Swiss when the EU tried to impose a limited working week, tell the Gov. to mind it's own business effectively telling them this was a private matter.
No you can't. NL took 600,000 children out of relative poverty. (And a million pensioners).

We have very little chance of learning from the Swiss as much of their economic miracle began in the 1940s with weapons and equipment sales to many countries including France the UK and the Nazis. And their banking cooperation with the Nazis was very lucrative not to mention the money made on Jewish wealth mistakenly placed there for safety during the war.

The Swiss have an industrial background that goes back to the early 1800s. They had a 1,000 km of railways by 1860.

Because their production facilities were mainly undamaged it facilitated a swift economic resurgence after the war. During the 1950s their Services began to outpace their industry.

Weren't they a tax haven at one point?

One thing is certain, you are wrong to compare the UK with THAT country.

Edited by C-too, Nov 4 2014, 03:43 PM.
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jaguar
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Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
I would lay odds on, that child is playing football in a Labour controlled council street.
Boarded up windows, graffiti, and rubbish all about.
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AndyK
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Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
That makes no sense, the Tories gain nothing from creating more poor people, its Labour that benefits.
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RJD
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C2: No you can't. NL took 600,000 children out of relative poverty. (And a million pensioners).

Oh dear just like Gordon Brown we all know how cheap that statistic was bought. Just a few Pence per week does the trick.

C2: We have very little chance of learning from the Swiss as much of their economic miracle began in the 1940s with weapons and equipment sales to many countries including France the UK and the Nazis. And their banking cooperation with the Nazis was very lucrative not to mention the money made on Jewish wealth mistakenly placed there for safety during the war.

And you gleaned this from which set of movies? Was it with Roger Moore?
Clearly those bars oF Nazi gold at the bottom of Lake Zurich have been used over and over to produce a series of miracles.

C2: The Swiss have an industrial background that goes back to the early 1800s. They had a 1,000 km of railways by 1860.

Good for them. Nobody ever claimed they are anything other than well industrialised, educated and wish to make a living in this increasingly competitive world. They were also wise enough to first copy then out do the Brits with watch/clock design and manufacture. For a small nation they with the UK operate some of the highest performing companies in Europe and Zurich stands second to London with Paris and Frankfurt somewhere over the horizon.

C2: Because their production facilities were mainly undamaged it facilitated a swift economic resurgence after the war. During the 1950s their Services began to outpace their industry.

Clearly being neutral, like Sweden, has economic benefits, my point is that never having a Labour Gov. also helps.

C2: Weren't they a tax haven at one point?

I think you will find that there are a lot more Germans, French and Italians with Accounts just across the border in order that they can attempt to hide some of there gains, ill gotten or otherwise. But do you really think this has made one iota of benefit to Nestle or BBC etc. Not one jot.

C2: One thing is certain, you are wrong to compare the UK with THAT country.

Why? Surely there are many comparisons to be made that are relevant? Maybe you just do not like the look of the Yardstick?
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Heinrich
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AndyK
Nov 4 2014, 04:49 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
That makes no sense, the Tories gain nothing from creating more poor people, its Labour that benefits.
Oh! When the news is bleak the government is the local council and when the spin is positive the government is in London???
The English might understand this but I sure don't.
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C-too
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Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 06:00 PM
AndyK
Nov 4 2014, 04:49 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
That makes no sense, the Tories gain nothing from creating more poor people, its Labour that benefits.
Oh! When the news is bleak the government is the local council and when the spin is positive the government is in London???
The English might understand this but I sure don't.
Probably, but under NL the numbers inherited in 1997 were reduced by 600,000. The Numbers rising during 18 years of callous Conservatism, and falling under caring NL.

Tories callous, Labour caring. It just doesn't seem to sink in with many people.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 4 2014, 05:01 PM
C2: No you can't. NL took 600,000 children out of relative poverty. (And a million pensioners).

Oh dear just like Gordon Brown we all know how cheap that statistic was bought. Just a few Pence per week does the trick.

C2: We have very little chance of learning from the Swiss as much of their economic miracle began in the 1940s with weapons and equipment sales to many countries including France the UK and the Nazis. And their banking cooperation with the Nazis was very lucrative not to mention the money made on Jewish wealth mistakenly placed there for safety during the war.

And you gleaned this from which set of movies? Was it with Roger Moore?
Clearly those bars oF Nazi gold at the bottom of Lake Zurich have been used over and over to produce a series of miracles.

C2: The Swiss have an industrial background that goes back to the early 1800s. They had a 1,000 km of railways by 1860.

Good for them. Nobody ever claimed they are anything other than well industrialised, educated and wish to make a living in this increasingly competitive world. They were also wise enough to first copy then out do the Brits with watch/clock design and manufacture. For a small nation they with the UK operate some of the highest performing companies in Europe and Zurich stands second to London with Paris and Frankfurt somewhere over the horizon.

C2: Because their production facilities were mainly undamaged it facilitated a swift economic resurgence after the war. During the 1950s their Services began to outpace their industry.

Clearly being neutral, like Sweden, has economic benefits, my point is that never having a Labour Gov. also helps.

C2: Weren't they a tax haven at one point?

I think you will find that there are a lot more Germans, French and Italians with Accounts just across the border in order that they can attempt to hide some of there gains, ill gotten or otherwise. But do you really think this has made one iota of benefit to Nestle or BBC etc. Not one jot.

C2: One thing is certain, you are wrong to compare the UK with THAT country.

Why? Surely there are many comparisons to be made that are relevant? Maybe you just do not like the look of the Yardstick?
1. It may have been little money in some cases, there is nothing but Tory insinuation in the claim. The average wage rose under NL therefore the increase needed was greater than in 1997.

2. Do a little actual research for yourself.

3. As ever, typical British innovention by-passed by people who wanted a quick return for their money and who lacked insight.

4. Let's not undermine the important part it played for the Swiss economy in the post war years.
Long term stability reduces the tensions in society. Not having a Labour government doesn't mean Swiss workers were ignored like the British workers have been, had that been the case there would have been far more problems in that country.
A centre right party does have some social conscience.

5. Being a tax haven must have its economic benefits for the Swiss, otherwise why not wash their hands of it?

6. I'm not saying there is nothing in the Switzerland that we could not benefit from, I am saying that the history of the two countries bear little or no comparison.
The different situations of the two countries is a product of our past cultures, attitudes and of course wars where we did a lot for little or no reward and the Swiss did little for big rewards.
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RJD
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C2: 1. It may have been little money in some cases, there is nothing but Tory insinuation in the claim. The average wage rose under NL therefore the increase needed was greater than in 1997.


The calculation is a relative one. You are talking about relative poverty and if the average rises so does the point at which those are considered to be in poverty. No insuation, it was a fact which clearly you are not comfortable with.

C2: 2. Do a little actual research for yourself.

Clearly I have hence your discomfort.

C2: 3. As ever, typical British innovention by-passed by people who wanted a quick return for their money and who lacked insight.

You have to define "quick return" for that to be understandable within context. Clearly many on the left think any return, quick, slow or otherwise unacceptable.
What return quick, slow or otherwise did the UK State anticipate it would receive from overmanned industries that allowed foreign competition overhaul it's once dominating position? C2 you are riven with dogma.

C2: 4. Let's not undermine the important part it played for the Swiss economy in the post war years.

Which the tonnes of Nazi gold at the bottom of Lake Zurich or not having a Labour Gov.?

C2: Long term stability reduces the tensions in society. Not having a Labour government doesn't mean Swiss workers were ignored like the British workers have been, had that been the case there would have been far more problems in that country.

Depends on your period. Are you back in the Victorian era or post WW2? If the latter then they were not ignored, however, they ignored their side of the bargain and we had wages escalating more rapidly than promised productivity gains. Best you do a bit of research in particular the two decades prior top 1980.

C2: A centre right party does have some social conscience.


At least as much as a centre left one based on the last 50 years of experience. This jumping for the moral high-ground is so boring and ignorant. Time the left gave it up as it is intellectually embarrassing and should have no place on a debating forum.

C2: 5. Being a tax haven must have its economic benefits for the Swiss, otherwise why not wash their hands of it?

No doubt. No doubt that is why they have the second largest Financial Services sector in Europe after the UK. But to claim that Switzerland's place in the World is all due to Nazi Gold and dodgy Offshore Banking is so left wing, so unsubstantiated and very Hollywood. Was it a Roger Moore movie?

C2: 6. I'm not saying there is nothing in the Switzerland that we could not benefit from, I am saying that the history of the two countries bear little or no comparison.
The different situations of the two countries is a product of our past cultures, attitudes and of course wars where we did a lot for little or no reward and the Swiss did little for big rewards.

Really. Protestant European country competing today against the UK in a global market place and because the former is not surrounded by salt water and did not fight two world wars we have nothing much in common, nothing much to learn. Go tell that one to the marines as it is pure defensive BS. We have a lot to learn and one of those things is to trust the people and undertake most functions of the State as close as possible to those footing the bill. We like the Swiss need to distrust our Politicians and stop buying their overblown promises that always seem to end in failure. Remember "we will cut the deficit in a single Parliament"? What a load of BS that turned out to be, now our grandchildren are saddled with an even bigger headache.

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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
^ A wonderful example of senility, can you still remember your name these days? ;D


The fact is, apart from the fact that wages are lagging behind the fiddled inflation figures and the recent report on child poverty, the rise in zero hours contracts, house price inflation and shyte productivity and low levels of investment, we are doing really really well!

File under blatantly blagged boringly bombastic biddy bilge blather.

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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 4 2014, 01:48 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
RJD
Nov 4 2014, 08:53 AM
The mistake made by most Commentators here is that the report is relative not absolute. I see no evidence from the comments made that the report is fundamentally flawed, but a lot that indicates a discomfort with the findings. Clearly no left leaning anti-capitalist hater of all matters British should I say English, could tolerate such findings.
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
I could make exactly the same asinine claim about the last Labour Gov. That said it would also be totally off topic. The claim is not that the UK is not a turd, but a more polished one than others relatively speaking. Those that wish to run down the UK for whatever reason ought to do so from the background of how we stand against the backdrop of others. Clearly Switzerland needs more of our attention. How can this small country with no raw materials, little agricultural land, landlocked with no easy routes to major Ports that serve the global markets, the highest portion of immigrants in it's working population manage to have done so well and considered to be well governed? I wonder whether it has anything to do with the fact that it has never had a Labour styled Gov? I wonder if the fact that Joe Public keeps Politicians on a short leash and disapproves of those that treat politics as if it were an arm of showbiz? Why is it that the Swiss have decided they wish to remain responsible for most of their own life-style decisions, such as health, education and pensions and have kept the State at arms length? Why did the Swiss when the EU tried to impose a limited working week, tell the Gov. to mind it's own business effectively telling them this was a private matter.
Do they have paragraphs in Switzerland?

Perhaps you could adopt one or two to make reading your posts slightly less tedious?

I blame his poor upbringing and lack of education Tigger.
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AndyK
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C-too
Nov 4 2014, 06:09 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 06:00 PM
AndyK
Nov 4 2014, 04:49 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepPosted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
That makes no sense, the Tories gain nothing from creating more poor people, its Labour that benefits.
Oh! When the news is bleak the government is the local council and when the spin is positive the government is in London???
The English might understand this but I sure don't.
Probably, but under NL the numbers inherited in 1997 were reduced by 600,000. The Numbers rising during 18 years of callous Conservatism, and falling under caring NL.

Tories callous, Labour caring. It just doesn't seem to sink in with many people.
No party deliberately sets out to create poor people.

It doesn't benefit anybody.

Parties can create them unwittingly though poorly though out policies and all are guilty of that.

Its just what happens when you allow politicians to run a country.

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Reflectivefarter
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A delusion is something that people believe in despite a total lack of evidence.

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Pro Veritas
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AndyK
Nov 4 2014, 04:49 PM
That makes no sense, the Tories gain nothing from creating more poor people, its Labour that benefits.
Of course the tories, or rather their corporate paymasters, benefit.

FOllowing an exit from the EU the Tories will revoke most, if not all, worker's rights and then remove the NMW.

Tory Corporate Paymasters will have a nation of serfs as a workforce, because most of them are so f**king incompetent as business leaders that is the ONLY way they can turn a profit.

All The Best
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Pro Veritas
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C-too
Nov 4 2014, 06:09 PM
Probably, but under NL the numbers inherited in 1997 were reduced by 600,000. The Numbers rising during 18 years of callous Conservatism, and falling under caring NL.

Tories callous, Labour caring. It just doesn't seem to sink in with many people.
Slightly ignores the fact that child poverty increased under labour.

All The Best
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Affa
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Tigger
Nov 4 2014, 07:08 PM


The fact is, apart from the fact that wages are lagging behind the fiddled inflation figures and the recent report on child poverty, the rise in zero hours contracts, house price inflation and shyte productivity and low levels of investment, we are doing really really well!

File under blatantly blagged boringly bombastic biddy bilge blather.



GDP has recently recovered to its pre crisis level ....... hooray!
GDP per capita is still below it's 2006 level ........ boo!


Posted Image
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Affa
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Pro Veritas
Nov 4 2014, 08:36 PM
Slightly ignores the fact that child poverty increased under labour.

All The Best

Which doesn't mean the poorer became poorer.

The mechanism for poverty measurement allows for the figure for those in relative poverty to increase even when the circumstances of the poor do improve - and vice versa.

An increase in average household income can actually push more children into the (relative) poverty position.


At the moment children are said to be in poverty if they live in a household with an income less than 60% of the national average.

This means that if there is a recession, for example, the average household income figure could fall, so fewer children are judged to be in poverty, even though their circumstances have not changed.


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Steve K
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Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
 ::)  ::)  ::)
That image is over 3 years old and is from an article about how Labour failed. How about making at least some effort to get your facts right

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8511057/Labour-spent-100000-per-child-but-poverty-gap-still-grew.html (from May 2011)


(Google is wonderful for debunking bollocks)
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Rich
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Steve K
Nov 4 2014, 11:35 PM
Heinrich
Nov 4 2014, 01:30 PM
Tory politicians and their supporters have no problem tolerating child poverty in England.

Posted Image
An child plays with a football on a road in "prosperous" Britain
 ::)  ::)  ::)
That image is over 3 years old and is from an article about how Labour failed. How about making at least some effort to get your facts right

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8511057/Labour-spent-100000-per-child-but-poverty-gap-still-grew.html (from May 2011)


(Google is wonderful for debunking bollocks)


Quite typical of all of Labours claims to have increased the standards of the populace by throwing money after money into a welfare pot that only encourages even more hands to be held out saying "I'm gonna have sommedat"

Whereas, in reality, it is Labour themselves shitting on their own bought out voters that have created an underclass with no aspiration to better themselves whilst they are comfortably looked after by the taxpayer.
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