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| Prosperous Britain. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM (3,376 Views) | |
| RJD | Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe. Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 10 2014, 05:29 PM Post #121 |
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Not one legally caught in British waters, due to the small size. |
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| RJD | Nov 10 2014, 05:39 PM Post #122 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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A few examples would be nice. Are you saying that the Nordic countries are similar to China? |
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| Affa | Nov 10 2014, 05:56 PM Post #123 |
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Are you under the impression that China invented State Capitalism? I think it was a Norwegian (Torger Reve) that said “We invented the Chinese way of doing things before the Chinese,” As for "a few examples" ....... it would be more helpful if you said 'what of', and gave some opinion about why you require the evidence of it - or simply go look yourself. |
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| RJD | Nov 11 2014, 08:07 AM Post #124 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Really interested in you proving your claim that the Nordic countries were run by State capitalism. Seems an absurd claim to me, but if you have some evidence? |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 11 2014, 11:46 AM Post #125 |
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Let them eat cake.
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| RJD | Nov 11 2014, 12:19 PM Post #126 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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500g of pasta and that Lobster could feed a family of four. Must go and get one whilst stocks last. |
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| AndyK | Nov 11 2014, 01:27 PM Post #127 |
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Pfft, only fit for dogs. http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/11/05/lobster-was-once-a-poor-mans-food/ |
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| Affa | Nov 11 2014, 01:56 PM Post #128 |
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Is your interest in learning that Norway and State Capitalism is fact, or in getting me to present proof of it? |
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| Affa | Nov 11 2014, 02:03 PM Post #129 |
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http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21570842-oil-makes-norway-different-rest-region-only-up-point-rich |
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| LillyBee | Nov 11 2014, 04:08 PM Post #130 |
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I knew the Scandinavian Countries were very well set however, amazed Singapore is so far down on the list. To quote the original poster's link. Edited by LillyBee, Nov 11 2014, 04:19 PM.
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| RJD | Nov 11 2014, 04:10 PM Post #131 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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It is always best when challenged to put up your evidence as this, I think, is a debating forum. Mind you some Posters think it as a Chat-room. So please explain how it is that Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are models of State capitalism. |
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| RJD | Nov 11 2014, 04:13 PM Post #132 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Just look at little Switzerland, land-locked, no oil, no raw materials to speak about, not much agricultural land, overridden with economic migrants, low taxation and never ever had a left leaning Gov. Funny how they manage to do so well relatively speaking. |
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| marybrown | Nov 11 2014, 04:15 PM Post #133 |
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Could be because they have all the Nazi gold..and several hundred major works of art.. |
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| LillyBee | Nov 11 2014, 04:25 PM Post #134 |
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I was just saying the other evening to friends, when there is someone that can make things work beautifully in one or the other endeavor in life, why not study how that happens? We were talking football and yet it is true for most everything. |
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| RJD | Nov 11 2014, 04:25 PM Post #135 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Could be, but how many hundreds of thousands of tonnes do you think are sitting at the bottom of Lake Zurich and how does such effect the performance of Nestle, BBC, Novartis etc. etc? I owned a company in Switzerland for nigh on 20 years and nobody ever stopped me and ask if I wanted to buy some dodgy used gold with the Hakenkreuz embossed on the side. Mary you watch far too much TV. |
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| LillyBee | Nov 11 2014, 04:58 PM Post #136 |
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Ok so maybe a country isn't blessed with what is obvious to accomplish wonders, they can work towards it and have a vision. It won't happen over night but look where we were in 2008, so close to depression. Our people never remember Obama for what he accomplished to get us out of that mess, only what they don't like now. I'm not a fan on many of his picks to lead government agencies lately but of course anyone can sit back and make decisions without all the information he has at hand and that is where people are now....for the most part anyway. He sticks to his inner circle and those he can trust, now with the new Attorney General he has ventured out of that circle and good for him. Too many emails from me and thousands of others or maybe just the right time? |
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| ACH1967 | Nov 12 2014, 08:44 AM Post #137 |
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I don't know about this but didn't the second world war cost the UK a fortune that we only "recently" paid off? How much did the second world war cost switzerland? |
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| Deleted User | Nov 12 2014, 09:23 AM Post #138 |
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Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland are poor examples of State Capitalism in that in general their state investments are minority holdings and not regarded as permanent, although Norway is one of the very few western nations with a state investment fund or sovereign wealth fund. Nevertheless State Capitalism is very definitely expanding, particularly in emerging and frontier economies. The following link provides an interesting insight into the development of State Capitalism and its implications. http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/64948/ian-bremmer/state-capitalism-comes-of-age There are big risks of course in that commercial decisions can be based on political and/or ideological motives. The progressively deteriorating state of Britains post war nationalised industries, as a result of under investment and poor management, resulted in the need to privatise them in a bid, not always successful, of regenerating them. I do not in principle object to state investment provided it remains minority investment, is effectively protected or 'ring-fenced' from short term partisan politics and is not provided with anti-competitive advantage over entirely privately owned competitors. |
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 12:58 PM Post #139 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Benn with his big white heap of technology made a political decision to expand BSC output from 13m TPA to 30m TPA, most of the new plant was bought and paid for but not commissioned or in some cases not even erected and the increased output, of base sheet metal, was stock piled on car parks across the land and then dumped onto the global markets. If the prices of gas and oil had been frozen when Milli demanded such then we would have seen recent reductions delayed. The truth is the Politicians struggle to control simple departments of the State and there is no evidence anywhere that they should be trusted. Just look at what they did to the MOD, Education and over expensive PFI projects. File: p155-up/brewery. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 12 2014, 01:03 PM Post #140 |
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RJD, those pale into insignificance compared the disasters caused by Iain Duncan Smith. |
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 01:14 PM Post #141 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Only in your opinion, there is a body of thought, supported with evidence, so they say, which claims that the IDS reforms were the stimulus for recent growth in low paid jobs. You started you campaign of painting all reforms a disaster before any were actually implemented. You made your outrageous claims of 600,000 dead littering our streets before IDS managed to put ink on paper. You are a Shroud Waver Mr Smurf and your claims have been shown to be extreme and/or bogus. I think you spend your days with your hands up hoping to catch a straw. Thank goodness I no longer waste any of my limited time following your wild goose links. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 12 2014, 01:21 PM Post #142 |
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Not just my opinion RJD, backed up by several government select committees, and a mass of the DWPs own data. Your "body of thought." knows nothing about that. |
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| AndyK | Nov 12 2014, 01:31 PM Post #143 |
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The Swiss don't have much gold, they flogged it off some time ago. But thanks to direct democracy, it looks like they are going to get it back again. http://dailyreckoning.com/will-the-swiss-vote-to-get-their-gold-back/ Gotta love the Swiss system ! |
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| jaguar | Nov 12 2014, 02:02 PM Post #144 |
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I think you must have been living in a parallel universe from 1997-2010. The last labour government massively increased the size of the public sector and shovelled unprecedented amounts of money into it, yet did next to nothing to ensure that this colossal expenditure was linked to any sort of meaningful reform. Whether this was economic illiteracy or the deliberate use of taxpayers money to set up and fund a client state, we now have the nauseating spectacle of senior suits at the BBC enriching themselves and each other, CEOs of local councils paying themselves £1/4 million a year, the death of final salary pensions in most of the private sector whilst paying for the pensions of the public sector that it cannot afford for itself, an NHS which kills its patients in numbers that would disgrace a 3rd world country, families with multi-generational welfare dependency….. Oh yes, all FUNDED by debt, which we, our children and our grandchildren will be saddled with. The reason why the Labour Party is not trusted to run a whelk stall, let alone the 5th largest economy on earth, is because the party’s collective approach is to say ‘nothing to do with us, guv’ thereby proving that it is not trustworthy. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 12 2014, 02:06 PM Post #145 |
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RJD you are so right. Politicians should not be allowed near commerce and industry, hence ny insistance that any state investment in the private sector must be protected from partisan political interference, such as Milibands politically motivated statement of intent regarding energy prices, and must represent a minority interest so that the lunatics can not take over the asylum. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 12 2014, 02:09 PM Post #146 |
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Well said! Nail on head! |
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| Affa | Nov 12 2014, 02:11 PM Post #147 |
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Better to ask how much it cost the USA ...... ? |
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| Affa | Nov 12 2014, 02:19 PM Post #148 |
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Like selling the shares at bargain basement price once the business begins to show a healthy profit. |
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| Affa | Nov 12 2014, 02:26 PM Post #149 |
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A poor use of the word truth ......... that being that it was an ideological stance opposed to State ownership responsible for the undoubted failure. You wouldn't put paedophiles in charge of running schools and not expect children to be abused ........... |
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| LillyBee | Nov 12 2014, 03:55 PM Post #150 |
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To me the important thing is how many lives were lost and not the monetary part of it. World War 2 (1941-1945 Total U.S. dead and wounded was 1,076,245 |
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| Deleted User | Nov 12 2014, 05:08 PM Post #151 |
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Your response is irrelevent to the points made in my post. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 12 2014, 05:49 PM Post #152 |
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Run past me how many benefit claimants New Labour killed, and how many people were using food banks. |
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 06:17 PM Post #153 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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They made a fortune. I once read that they gained around one third of the UK's net worth and a long term debt that we only recently saw the back of. Not only that the most advanced aero industry in the World gave them technology for zilch. Except for lost blood WW2 was not a bad one for the USa, but a disaster for Europe. Had there not been two terrible wars in the 20th C. I wonder if it would still have been dominated by the USA. I suspect not. |
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 06:20 PM Post #154 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Usual baloney. Germany has a lot more Food Banks than the UK, it is surprising that relatively speaking we have so few. Anyway what is that to do with poverty, it certainly is not the cause. As for your repeated claims of genocide by IDS et al, best you take stock as you are making an absolute fool of yourself. |
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| Tigger | Nov 12 2014, 06:27 PM Post #155 |
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Very funny, you are aware that the Edinburgh Comedy Festival finished some months ago? Those who apparently profess to have run large businesses seem to be missing certain facts that would shame a goat with amnesia, let's of course remind ourselves of the billions the privately run banks needed via their political friends from us the taxpayer, not to mention a railway system that is overwhelmingly dire and a business community that often struggles when it cant make up the rules for itself and has to compete on the global stage. Consider this for one minute, many of those fantastically competent industries and PLC's you praise are in fact kept going by nothing short of a form of socialism for the benefit of capitalism! |
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| Tigger | Nov 12 2014, 06:33 PM Post #156 |
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Talking of fools, how are we going to tackle the vast increase in debt run up under Osbrowne that will have to be paid for by future users of those food banks? The poverty is being looked in for future generations and at some point they'll say we ain't paying for it, then we really will be in trouble. We now have bought and paid for politicians and yet for some bizarre reason you seem to think one lot is better than the other lot!
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 06:37 PM Post #157 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tig.: Very funny, you are aware that the Edinburgh Comedy Festival finished some months ago? Usual juvenile vacous sarcastic comment which brings nothing of interest to any debate. It doesn't even bolster your meagre credentials. Tig: Those who apparently profess to have run large businesses seem to be missing certain facts that would shame a goat with amnesia, let's of course remind ourselves of the billions the privately run banks needed via their political friends from us the taxpayer, not to mention a railway system that is overwhelmingly dire and a business community that often struggles when it cant make up the rules for itself and has to compete on the global stage. Who are these people you refer to? The decision to bail out the Banks was a political one. As for railways you offer no evidence. The truth is that currently tax revenues match subsidies and the latter go on those rural lines that would close without such. Tig.: Consider this for one minute, many of those fantastically competent industries and PLC's you praise are in fact kept going by nothing short of a form of socialism for the benefit of capitalism! What a load of ignorant twaddle, but I expect nothing more. Put up some facts and some evidence for once, just once, and see how it stands just a modicum of scrutiny. Me thinks you must be Red Nag Myth Weaver in Chief. |
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| jaguar | Nov 12 2014, 06:41 PM Post #158 |
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Probably thousands unless you can prove otherwise. The first food BANK was set up in Salisbury in 2000, long before those nasty Tories got anywhere near the economy and benefits system. In 2007/08, 22 food BANKS launched and fed 13,800. Those numbers rose steadily: in 2009/10, before the general election had even taken place. The Trussell Trust has been campaigning for years for Job Centre Plus staff to be able to refer people to food banks. It was only under the Coalition that this was finally permitted, which goes some way to explaining the rise in demand. One of the reasons this was necessary is that 30 per cent of those who need food parcels are in crisis because their benefits have been delayed. |
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| RJD | Nov 12 2014, 06:46 PM Post #159 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Make an industry of it and it will expand. Take a look at Germany which now has industrialised Food Banks with t's own national logistics. Claiming the the number of such Food Banks in our society correlates directly with social failure is a joke, especially when the driver is not the cost of food which is falling. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 12 2014, 06:49 PM Post #160 |
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But there were only a few thousand users a year when Labour were in power, now there are a million, and rising. Edited by papasmurf, Nov 12 2014, 06:49 PM.
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