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| Prosperous Britain. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM (3,374 Views) | |
| RJD | Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe. Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy. |
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| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 09:51 AM Post #201 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Evidence indicates that private companies are a lot more efficient than those run by the State, in fact there is no evidence of the converse. That said, the main problem is not the productivity of Civil Servants although dire, dire by design, but the fact that the State spends a fortune on matters that are fast becoming irrelevant. Why all these grandiose Scottish Office, Welsh Office and what is Vince Cable's lot actually doing that is any benefit to the UK Economy. On top of that you have to ask yourself why we need so many QUANGOs and also why do they cost us a fortune. I have a friend, an erstwhile academic in Medicine who has given up research and teaching, now sits on three QUANGOs and I kid you not she rakes in >£200,000 PA. She used to receive from her Uni post <£60,000 PA. There is also a limit to what we should privatise and I certainly would object to removing the Armed Forces and the Police away from Political control. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 09:59 AM Post #202 |
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Senior Member
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Evidence about private companies with government contracts show the opposite. G4S, A4E, Serco, and ATOS being just a few examples. Plus whoever is responsible for giving Maximus government contracts should be given the sack. |
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| Affa | Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM Post #203 |
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Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1 But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected. Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be. There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so! |
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| marybrown | Nov 15 2014, 01:58 PM Post #204 |
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Senior Member
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we're talking communism here! |
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| Affa | Nov 15 2014, 02:57 PM Post #205 |
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Senior Member
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Not me Mary ........ public services like health, education, water, and power generation, 'the essentials' should never be regulated by a need for profit as all private businesses are. |
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| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 03:35 PM Post #206 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Really and on what evidence do you base this claim. I certainly hope it is apples for apples and not your usual. |
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| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 03:42 PM Post #207 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Yes and checked the facts, privatisation was a roaring success for Taxpayers and everyone else except the Luddites who thought they should haver protected jobs for life. There is not one example where post privatisation productivity rates and ROCE was lower than when under State control. Not one. Even when you look at our Railways today, a close look not the Red Nag myths, you will find that the tax revenues balance the subsidies which in turn are spent on under utilised rural lines. So instead of Joe Public subsidising my rural ticket the intercity passengers have taken that on board. A great success and they have to carry the reported inefficiencies of the quasi-nationalised Network Rail. Anyone who thinks that returning these to State control will benefit Joe Public is in for a very rude awakening. Best learn from history and not repeat past mistakes. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 03:57 PM Post #208 |
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Come on RJD, you can't be serious given the national news items about those companies. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/taxpayer-compensated-for-overcharging-as-cross-government-contracts-review-concludes http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2105771/Emma-Harrison-quits-amid-fraud-scandal-But-work-tsars-firm-A4e-win-prisoner-rehabilitation-contract.html http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/29/uk-serco-results-idUKBRE97S09120130829 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27796739 And the latest impending disaster giving Maximus a government contract:- http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2000/08/07/story7.html?page=all http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/08/local/la-me-maximus-20101008 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GDYqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rzsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1846,1629565&dq=maximus+inc&hl=en http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=20001013&id=BTYqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pi8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6326,2921868 http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/01/nyregion/federal-agency-finds-workfare-contractor-violated-wage-law.html?n=Top%2fNews%2fBusiness%2fCompanies%2fMaximus%20Inc. http://www.natlawreview.com/article/maximus-will-pay-50000-to-settle-eeoc-disability-discrimination-lawsuit http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/23/AR2007072301727.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/health/consultants-advice-could-cost-state-tens-of-millions-b99129639z1-229986111.html http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jul/24/maximus-settles-medicaid-complaint/ http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=2341&Q=458386 http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/auditors-state-owes-228-million-for-improper-medicaid-billings-under-jim-doyle-b99102596z1-224574611.html |
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| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM Post #209 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 04:32 PM Post #210 |
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Well stay in ignorance then. Several of those links are direct to government websites. |
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| Lewis | Nov 15 2014, 06:57 PM Post #211 |
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What a fallacy. WRT the railways the overwhelming majority of people wish to see them nationalised again. We currently have the almost the most expensive and unreliable railway in the world. Things like the energy, water, railways, health industries are too important to be in the hands of private rip off merchants. |
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| disgruntled porker | Nov 15 2014, 07:28 PM Post #212 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Actually, I was talking sarcasm, but it appears a great many on here are oblivious to the use of "the lowest form of wit". |
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| somersetli | Nov 15 2014, 07:31 PM Post #213 |
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somersetli
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I have lived through the rail nationalisation era, and as far as I can remember there was no difference in passenger satisfaction whether the railways were in public or private operation. In any case, because of our EU membership the railways could never be completely nationalised. The best that could be done would be for the government to be the major shareholder. And it would still have to allow private operation on its network. It would also have to split its track maintenance and signalling operations from its passenger side. |
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| disgruntled porker | Nov 15 2014, 07:33 PM Post #214 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindset. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept. Edited by disgruntled porker, Nov 16 2014, 09:10 AM.
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| Affa | Nov 15 2014, 08:13 PM Post #215 |
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Senior Member
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Which sort of confirms my argument that government, or specifically UK government, were awful at managing public owned public services. An argument that alleges that these were so badly run, so starved of investment/modernisation, and so overmanned (a consequence of low investment) that 'A' level school leavers with a GCE in business studies could do better. The wreckage from an ideological opposition to Nationalisation is only witnessed here in the UK. Even China has demonstrated more competence as stewards of national assets. |
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| Affa | Nov 15 2014, 08:24 PM Post #216 |
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My first instinct (after noting it was from you) was as you say here - but it demanded a serious answer. I regret not having the wit to make the point in a more entertaining manner. Mary I think could have been making a similarly subtle remark - it is old hat, but still happens today, to try to scare folk with talk of Communism. Ed Miliband is often portrayed as Marxist by the right. Even the Marxists are Capitalists these days ........ Mrs Thatcher made them all come in out of the cold and join the party. |
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| Tigger | Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM Post #217 |
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Senior Member
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When I was two years old I would put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes in the hope that offending situation in front of me would just vanish, some it would seem have never grown out of that, not even after seventy odd years. I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right. I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence..... |
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 08:27 AM Post #218 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No just you and a few others Mr Pig. Wrong on just about everything. |
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 08:28 AM Post #219 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Do they? Where is your evidence? |
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 08:29 AM Post #220 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Even more reason to avoid such links. |
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| Lewis | Nov 16 2014, 08:52 AM Post #221 |
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Ah but he does, rarely provides any himself, then states that he refuses to read any when others provide some. What a crazy mixed up, fruitcase this is! |
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| papasmurf | Nov 16 2014, 09:03 AM Post #222 |
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He will, to be frank he is being (expletive deleted) perverse, by keeping asking for evidence and then not reading it. Asking for evidence about the wrong doing of G4S, A4E, Serco and ATOS given how much they have been in the news for it over the last two years is quite frankly ridiculous. As for Maximus how the (expletive deleted) they were ever awarded a contract by the government is highly suspicious, given there appalling track record. |
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| disgruntled porker | Nov 16 2014, 09:13 AM Post #223 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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You see that proffered finger on your avatar, well ................................................................ and rotate. |
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 12:28 PM Post #224 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You know why I do not read your links. So do others. |
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 12:29 PM Post #225 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Best start getting a few things right then Mt Pig. |
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| Tigger | Nov 16 2014, 02:11 PM Post #226 |
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Translation. F***, my latest load of nonsense has been rumbled, enter dumb insolence mode, Again!
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| Tigger | Nov 16 2014, 02:16 PM Post #227 |
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Senior Member
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Lamentable!
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| RJD | Nov 16 2014, 03:00 PM Post #228 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You know why we do not read your links, there are none. |
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| C-too | Nov 16 2014, 04:08 PM Post #229 |
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Honourable Member
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That's what he does, that's why he can face anyway he wants when it suits him.
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| C-too | Nov 16 2014, 05:23 PM Post #230 |
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Honourable Member
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You did receive my explanation so your "no evidence" comment is uncalled for. I did say I would be able to find evidence about Greenspan. Thatcher was heavily influenced by him and that is why she started her Deregulation/Fincial Services/Free Market economy in 1985. She was quite explicite about it. Where were you at the time? Greenspan apologises; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bX_vhojH8c Putting it mildly it is wrong to accuse NL of profligate spending, that is why in part I remind you of the hidden debts in terms of the mess the NHS and school buildings were in, in 1997. NL did a good job prior to the Meltdown in 2007/08, they were stumped by the economic poison pumped into the international financial markets via Wall Street. You clearly have no understanding of the economic mess the economy was in, in 1974. You missed Greenspan you missed the Tory calls for more deregulation you appear to have little understanding of anything other than what one might read in the likes of the Mail or the Torygraph. Perhaps you are a victim of having a selective memory? In 1963/64 Labour inherrited the results of Conservative governments going cap in hand to the IMF on three occasions and the second Largest trading dificit ever recorded. Things were also in a mess in 1974. Whomever has been misleading you on Labour in office obviously has a very subjective approach to the issue. Late reply, weekend away. |
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| Tigger | Nov 17 2014, 08:26 PM Post #231 |
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"We" ? I have seen you REFUSE to read links that have blown your theories and pet hates clean out of the water! File under so confused I'm even kidding myself now!
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| Lewis | Nov 17 2014, 10:52 PM Post #232 |
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Totally agree, however the poison you refer to has'nt gone away but had ebbed and is returning with a vengeance. I note that one of the useless PMs of all time, namely John Major has come up with a plausible reason for the popularity of UKIP, as the so-called recovery has bypassed most people, with nil or very little growth in wages. We are told growth is 3%, but the belief is that people are continuing to fall behind. Scammer's is going to get stuffed this coming Thursday as the Tories will lose hands down to UKIP. It will get even worse for the incompetents in the New Year when an estimated six backbenchers throw in the towel and join UKIP. When that happens Scameron's position will become untenable. They say that Ed Millipede has problems but they fall into insignificance compared to those facing Scameron, come the New Year! |
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| RJD | Nov 18 2014, 08:21 AM Post #233 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Well you do not post any so that is OK and I have wasted a lot of time at the last place, so have others, following those put up by Mr Smurf. This in no way destroys any theories, but reinforces that I am selective in what I spend my time with. For the record I tend now to skip most of what you say as it has proven in the past to be just emotional tripe of the very ignorant variety and I am not obliged to respond to your pathetic attempts at serial trolling. Basically Tig., based on your history here and at the other place you appear to have little or nothing to say that interests me, so please forgive me and understand why I avoid your juvenile attempts at rudeness. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 18 2014, 09:38 AM Post #234 |
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You are supposed to read all of a link RJD, and the links embedded in it, not just do what Daily Mail journalists do, read the first two paragraphs. Knowledge does not come easily and takes longer than two minutes. Edited by papasmurf, Nov 18 2014, 09:38 AM.
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| Tytoalba | Nov 18 2014, 10:56 AM Post #235 |
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Dear Tigger. Is it possible for you reply to another poster without starting it with a put down? It does not add to your replies and can only cause offence. Your posts are worth the read if only for the expressiobn of opinion. Are you from the Glasgow region, for they have a tendancy to be agressive in my experience. I see you as a friend, for you voted against indipendence, and we are all stronger together than seperated. |
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| ACH1967 | Nov 18 2014, 12:14 PM Post #236 |
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I, RJD and Steve K have all in the past expressed our unwillingness to waste our time with PS's lazy technique of just spamming links, many of whioch when followed have been found to be saying something diametrically oppsed to the case PS was making. Refusing to follow PS's links is not desiring "ignorance" but desiring not to have ones time wasted. Whilst I do not have any links I was watching a repeat of HIGNFU which referred to the case of SERCO (for whom I used to work and quite happily as it happens) charging for the tagging of 18,000 people when there were only 15,000. That said any half decent project manager would never have let that happen in the first place so whislt there seems little denying that SERCO did wrong WTF were the people managing the contract doing? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 18 2014, 12:21 PM Post #237 |
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That is because you can't be bothered to read ALL of the links and the links in them. Short copy and pastes are useless if you wish the be informed which you RJD and Steve K cannot be bothered to do. Your ignorance of what is going on shows because if it. |
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| ACH1967 | Nov 18 2014, 12:39 PM Post #238 |
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You can deny it as much as you want but ..... ------------------------------------------------------- I don't think so. Insults and abuse removed by moderator. Please address the issue, and not the posting member. ---------------------------------------------------------- .....This doens't mean he doesn't have a point. Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 19 2014, 08:53 AM.
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| RJD | Nov 18 2014, 04:40 PM Post #239 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You Mr Smurf need to take your own advice and demonstrate that you have by providing a synopsis of that which you claim supports your position. I am not alone here in finding that you have abused our trust in that matter and I will no longer waste 10 mSec with your links unless I can see that there is a reasonable chance that you have first read and inwardly digested. I am not obliged to read anything you post or follow any of your links Wild Goose or otherwise. |
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| RJD | Nov 18 2014, 04:46 PM Post #240 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Show some intellectual humility Mr Smurf, you will find that in time it will benefit your debating technique, which at the moment appears to have become a busted flush. You really do need to reflect as posting links that others avoid is not a good sign. I would like to have confidence in your claims and find your links informative and beneficial, but you have abused my trust in you far too often and without one iota of respect to the amount of my time you have wasted. So step up and provide your synopsis as your unqualified links are of no interest to me. |
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I don't think so. Insults and abuse removed by moderator. 
2:34 PM Jul 11