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Prosperous Britain.
Topic Started: Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM (3,374 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Nov 14 2014, 02:52 PM
RJD
Nov 14 2014, 12:26 PM
Nobody objects to improvements only the massive lack of prudence which produced enormous amounts of waste of Taxpayers money.

Of course; nobody should object to improvements, anywhere, unless there was another agenda ...... an agenda that desired to escape being held accountable for the running of public services (losing voter confidence), and so would rather these were managed by the private sector (where these services become vessels for profit to shareholders = investors).
Under those circumstances it might be desirable for these services to fail, to be made lame - a situation which would allow for public opinion to accept privatisation, and at a market price much lower than the potential price from a well managed service.
Being minimalist, restricting investments, spending 'Cuts', does not equate to being prudent, no matter how it is dressed up.

adjective
1.
wise or judicious in practical affairs; sagacious; discreet or circumspect; sober.
2.
careful in providing for the future; provident:


Evidence indicates that private companies are a lot more efficient than those run by the State, in fact there is no evidence of the converse. That said, the main problem is not the productivity of Civil Servants although dire, dire by design, but the fact that the State spends a fortune on matters that are fast becoming irrelevant. Why all these grandiose Scottish Office, Welsh Office and what is Vince Cable's lot actually doing that is any benefit to the UK Economy. On top of that you have to ask yourself why we need so many QUANGOs and also why do they cost us a fortune. I have a friend, an erstwhile academic in Medicine who has given up research and teaching, now sits on three QUANGOs and I kid you not she rakes in >£200,000 PA. She used to receive from her Uni post <£60,000 PA.
There is also a limit to what we should privatise and I certainly would object to removing the Armed Forces and the Police away from Political control.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 09:51 AM
Evidence indicates that private companies are a lot more efficient than those run by the State,
Evidence about private companies with government contracts show the opposite. G4S, A4E, Serco, and ATOS being just a few examples.
Plus whoever is responsible for giving Maximus government contracts should be given the sack.
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Affa
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disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 09:11 AM


Surely this wouldn't happen? Surely the public would twig what was happening were it the case?

Ho hum.


Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1
But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected.

Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

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marybrown
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Affa
Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 09:11 AM


Surely this wouldn't happen? Surely the public would twig what was happening were it the case?

Ho hum.


Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1
But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected.

Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

we're talking communism here!
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Affa
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marybrown
Nov 15 2014, 01:58 PM
Affa
Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM


Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

we're talking communism here!

Not me Mary ........ public services like health, education, water, and power generation, 'the essentials' should never be regulated by a need for profit as all private businesses are.

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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Nov 15 2014, 09:59 AM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 09:51 AM
Evidence indicates that private companies are a lot more efficient than those run by the State,
Evidence about private companies with government contracts show the opposite. G4S, A4E, Serco, and ATOS being just a few examples.
Plus whoever is responsible for giving Maximus government contracts should be given the sack.
Really and on what evidence do you base this claim. I certainly hope it is apples for apples and not your usual.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 09:11 AM


Surely this wouldn't happen? Surely the public would twig what was happening were it the case?

Ho hum.


Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1
But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected.

Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

Yes and checked the facts, privatisation was a roaring success for Taxpayers and everyone else except the Luddites who thought they should haver protected jobs for life. There is not one example where post privatisation productivity rates and ROCE was lower than when under State control. Not one. Even when you look at our Railways today, a close look not the Red Nag myths, you will find that the tax revenues balance the subsidies which in turn are spent on under utilised rural lines. So instead of Joe Public subsidising my rural ticket the intercity passengers have taken that on board. A great success and they have to carry the reported inefficiencies of the quasi-nationalised Network Rail. Anyone who thinks that returning these to State control will benefit Joe Public is in for a very rude awakening. Best learn from history and not repeat past mistakes.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 03:35 PM
Really and on what evidence do you base this claim. I certainly hope it is apples for apples and not your usual.
Come on RJD, you can't be serious given the national news items about those companies.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/taxpayer-compensated-for-overcharging-as-cross-government-contracts-review-concludes

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2105771/Emma-Harrison-quits-amid-fraud-scandal-But-work-tsars-firm-A4e-win-prisoner-rehabilitation-contract.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/29/uk-serco-results-idUKBRE97S09120130829

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27796739

And the latest impending disaster giving Maximus a government contract:-

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2000/08/07/story7.html?page=all

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/08/local/la-me-maximus-20101008

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GDYqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rzsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1846,1629565&dq=maximus+inc&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=20001013&id=BTYqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pi8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6326,2921868

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/01/nyregion/federal-agency-finds-workfare-contractor-violated-wage-law.html?n=Top%2fNews%2fBusiness%2fCompanies%2fMaximus%20Inc.

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/maximus-will-pay-50000-to-settle-eeoc-disability-discrimination-lawsuit

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/23/AR2007072301727.html

http://www.jsonline.com/news/health/consultants-advice-could-cost-state-tens-of-millions-b99129639z1-229986111.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jul/24/maximus-settles-medicaid-complaint/

http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=2341&Q=458386

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/auditors-state-owes-228-million-for-improper-medicaid-billings-under-jim-doyle-b99102596z1-224574611.html



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RJD
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I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf.
Well stay in ignorance then. Several of those links are direct to government websites.
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Lewis
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 03:42 PM
Affa
Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 09:11 AM


Surely this wouldn't happen? Surely the public would twig what was happening were it the case?

Ho hum.


Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1
But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected.

Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

Yes and checked the facts, privatisation was a roaring success for Taxpayers and everyone else except the Luddites who thought they should haver protected jobs for life. There is not one example where post privatisation productivity rates and ROCE was lower than when under State control. Not one. Even when you look at our Railways today, a close look not the Red Nag myths, you will find that the tax revenues balance the subsidies which in turn are spent on under utilised rural lines. So instead of Joe Public subsidising my rural ticket the intercity passengers have taken that on board. A great success and they have to carry the reported inefficiencies of the quasi-nationalised Network Rail. Anyone who thinks that returning these to State control will benefit Joe Public is in for a very rude awakening. Best learn from history and not repeat past mistakes.
What a fallacy. WRT the railways the overwhelming majority of people wish to see them nationalised again. We currently have the almost the most expensive and unreliable railway in the world. Things like the energy, water, railways, health industries are too important to be in the hands of private rip off merchants.
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disgruntled porker
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Older than most people think I am.
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marybrown
Nov 15 2014, 01:58 PM
Affa
Nov 15 2014, 01:54 PM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 09:11 AM


Surely this wouldn't happen? Surely the public would twig what was happening were it the case?

Ho hum.


Yeah; Surely they would, surely our guardians in the press would also1
But when the government tell us "it was a good deal for the tax payer" and the media spin it to say the same, Joe public takes it on board, as expected.

Haven't you wondered if Privatisation has been all it was cracked up to be.

There is no reason why any public service business cannot be run better by the State. When the State fails to do so it is not from lack of resources or available talent - it is entirely from lack of commitment to do so!

we're talking communism here!
Actually, I was talking sarcasm, but it appears a great many on here are oblivious to the use of "the lowest form of wit".
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somersetli
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somersetli
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I have lived through the rail nationalisation era, and as far as I can remember there was no difference in passenger satisfaction whether the railways were in public or private operation.

In any case, because of our EU membership the railways could never be completely nationalised.
The best that could be done would be for the government to be the major shareholder. And it would still have to allow private operation on its network. It would also have to split its track maintenance and signalling operations from its passenger side.
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disgruntled porker
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindset. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept.
Edited by disgruntled porker, Nov 16 2014, 09:10 AM.
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Affa
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 03:42 PM

Yes and checked the facts, privatisation was a roaring success for Taxpayers and everyone else except the Luddites who thought they should haver protected jobs for life. There is not one example where post privatisation productivity rates and ROCE was lower than when under State control. Not one.

Which sort of confirms my argument that government, or specifically UK government, were awful at managing public owned public services.
An argument that alleges that these were so badly run, so starved of investment/modernisation, and so overmanned (a consequence of low investment) that 'A' level school leavers with a GCE in business studies could do better.

The wreckage from an ideological opposition to Nationalisation is only witnessed here in the UK. Even China has demonstrated more competence as stewards of national assets.


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Affa
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disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 07:28 PM
Actually, I was talking sarcasm, but it appears a great many on here are oblivious to the use of "the lowest form of wit".

My first instinct (after noting it was from you) was as you say here - but it demanded a serious answer.
I regret not having the wit to make the point in a more entertaining manner.

Mary I think could have been making a similarly subtle remark - it is old hat, but still happens today, to try to scare folk with talk of Communism. Ed Miliband is often portrayed as Marxist by the right.
Even the Marxists are Capitalists these days ........ Mrs Thatcher made them all come in out of the cold and join the party.







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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
When I was two years old I would put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes in the hope that offending situation in front of me would just vanish, some it would seem have never grown out of that, not even after seventy odd years.

I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 07:33 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindest. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept.
No just you and a few others Mr Pig. Wrong on just about everything.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Nov 15 2014, 08:13 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 03:42 PM

Yes and checked the facts, privatisation was a roaring success for Taxpayers and everyone else except the Luddites who thought they should haver protected jobs for life. There is not one example where post privatisation productivity rates and ROCE was lower than when under State control. Not one.

Which sort of confirms my argument that government, or specifically UK government, were awful at managing public owned public services.
An argument that alleges that these were so badly run, so starved of investment/modernisation, and so overmanned (a consequence of low investment) that 'A' level school leavers with a GCE in business studies could do better.

The wreckage from an ideological opposition to Nationalisation is only witnessed here in the UK. Even China has demonstrated more competence as stewards of national assets.


Do they? Where is your evidence?
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
When I was two years old I would put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes in the hope that offending situation in front of me would just vanish, some it would seem have never grown out of that, not even after seventy odd years.

I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
Even more reason to avoid such links.
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Lewis
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Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
When I was two years old I would put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes in the hope that offending situation in front of me would just vanish, some it would seem have never grown out of that, not even after seventy odd years.

I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
Ah but he does, rarely provides any himself, then states that he refuses to read any when others provide some. What a crazy mixed up, fruitcase this is!
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM


I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
He will, to be frank he is being (expletive deleted) perverse, by keeping asking for evidence and then not reading it.
Asking for evidence about the wrong doing of G4S, A4E, Serco and ATOS given how much they have been in the news for it over the last two years is quite frankly ridiculous.
As for Maximus how the (expletive deleted) they were ever awarded a contract by the government is highly suspicious, given there appalling track record.
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disgruntled porker
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RJD
Nov 16 2014, 08:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 07:33 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindest. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept.
No just you and a few others Mr Pig. Wrong on just about everything.
You see that proffered finger on your avatar, well ................................................................ and rotate.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Nov 16 2014, 09:03 AM
Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM


I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
He will, to be frank he is being (expletive deleted) perverse, by keeping asking for evidence and then not reading it.
Asking for evidence about the wrong doing of G4S, A4E, Serco and ATOS given how much they have been in the news for it over the last two years is quite frankly ridiculous.
As for Maximus how the (expletive deleted) they were ever awarded a contract by the government is highly suspicious, given there appalling track record.
You know why I do not read your links. So do others.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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disgruntled porker
Nov 16 2014, 09:13 AM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 08:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 07:33 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindest. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept.
No just you and a few others Mr Pig. Wrong on just about everything.
You see that proffered finger on your avatar, well ................................................................ and rotate.
Best start getting a few things right then Mt Pig.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 16 2014, 08:29 AM
Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
When I was two years old I would put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes in the hope that offending situation in front of me would just vanish, some it would seem have never grown out of that, not even after seventy odd years.

I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
Even more reason to avoid such links.
Translation.

F***, my latest load of nonsense has been rumbled, enter dumb insolence mode, Again! ;D
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 16 2014, 12:28 PM
papasmurf
Nov 16 2014, 09:03 AM
Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM


I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
He will, to be frank he is being (expletive deleted) perverse, by keeping asking for evidence and then not reading it.
Asking for evidence about the wrong doing of G4S, A4E, Serco and ATOS given how much they have been in the news for it over the last two years is quite frankly ridiculous.
As for Maximus how the (expletive deleted) they were ever awarded a contract by the government is highly suspicious, given there appalling track record.
You know why I do not read your links. So do others.
Lamentable! ;D
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tigger
Nov 16 2014, 02:16 PM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 12:28 PM
papasmurf
Nov 16 2014, 09:03 AM
Tigger
Nov 15 2014, 08:59 PM


I have read two of those links at random and he appears to be right.

I do hope you don't whine and BS at a future date about people not supplying evidence.....
He will, to be frank he is being (expletive deleted) perverse, by keeping asking for evidence and then not reading it.
Asking for evidence about the wrong doing of G4S, A4E, Serco and ATOS given how much they have been in the news for it over the last two years is quite frankly ridiculous.
As for Maximus how the (expletive deleted) they were ever awarded a contract by the government is highly suspicious, given there appalling track record.
You know why I do not read your links. So do others.
Lamentable! ;D
You know why we do not read your links, there are none.
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C-too
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disgruntled porker
Nov 16 2014, 09:13 AM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 08:27 AM
disgruntled porker
Nov 15 2014, 07:33 PM
RJD
Nov 15 2014, 04:26 PM
I do not follow your links for obvious reasons Mr Smurf. You are free to summarise your evidence. I made my bold claim now do the decent thing and do a bit more than post your wild goose links. Not one example I said. And yes I do mean apples for apples.
You don't follow any links which may make a mockery of your mindest. In your little world you beleive that only you can be right, and everything else is wrong. Jesus wept.
No just you and a few others Mr Pig. Wrong on just about everything.
You see that proffered finger on your avatar, well ................................................................ and rotate.
That's what he does, that's why he can face anyway he wants when it suits him. :)
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C-too
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Major Sinic
Nov 13 2014, 05:17 PM
C-too
Nov 13 2014, 04:14 PM
Major Sinic
Nov 13 2014, 03:47 PM
C-too
Nov 13 2014, 10:24 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Care to provide evidence that at the time Gordon Brown 'restructured' financial regulation with such gross incompetence that your imagined villains; the Tory Party, the City and a group of nameless and unquantifiable Gurus, demanded less regulation? DP suggested that they demanded the removal of regulation altogether. At least your stated falsehood doesn't extend that far!

Two points. I am fully aware that the financial crisis was global and emmanated from the USA. I am also fully aware that entirely ineffective regulation of financial services, along with profligate and ineffectual public spending resulted in a far greater negative impact on the UK economy than a competent administration would have overseen, thanks in great measure to Gordon Brown and his two economic henchmen, Miliband and Balls.
You ask for comformation then post your "Stated falsehood", without comformation of your claim??
I could if I was minded to provide evidence of Thatcher's favourite Guru, Alan Greenspan because he apologised after the meltdown saying "he did not think the banks would act so irresponsibly".
The Tories were repeatedly calling for more deregulation as heard on TV, they applauded deregulation taking place. Proving the City were in favour would be a little more difficult as it was something that came up during a political debate on TV.

One thing is certain, you will not find Greenspan, the leader of the Tory party, or the City anywhere on record asking for reregulation before the meltdown. All the 'brains' suddenly had to find a scapegoat after the meltdown and the Tories dishonestly led the way in blaming Brown/NL.

Are you fully aware of the state of the NHS in 1979 with its 12 to 18 months waiting times for operations?

Are you fully aware of the lack of maintainance of state schools outside of the 'Grant Maintained' system?
Fine so no evidence! I'm not surprised.

Could I just remind you that Labour was elected to govern this country in 1997 when Gordon Brown was appointed Chancellor. You seem to be implying that the complete lack of regulation implemented by Brown was somehow not his responsibility, but the Conservatives and the City were somehow at fault, although he had had ten years to tighten financial regulation had he seen fit. Instead he turned lightweight regulation into strawweight regulation. Whether you like it or not in your fantasy world of wonderful Labour, the buck stops with the guy in charge and in this case it was Brown.

What the heck the NHS waiting times in 1979 or the maintenance of state schools has to do with this thread in general, or financial regulation in particular I really have no idea. I am not surprised however that the country was in a mess then, since March 1979 spelt the end of five years of Labour Government, and an economic mess is what we have come to expect at the end of every Labour administration. As Affa points out a conscience was what was needed and having one ensured that I voted to get rid Callaghan, surely one of the most ineffectual, weak and vacillating post war prime ministers!
You did receive my explanation so your "no evidence" comment is uncalled for. I did say I would be able to find evidence about Greenspan. Thatcher was heavily influenced by him and that is why she started her Deregulation/Fincial Services/Free Market economy in 1985. She was quite explicite about it. Where were you at the time?

Greenspan apologises;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bX_vhojH8c

Putting it mildly it is wrong to accuse NL of profligate spending, that is why in part I remind you of the hidden debts in terms of the mess the NHS and school buildings were in, in 1997.

NL did a good job prior to the Meltdown in 2007/08, they were stumped by the economic poison pumped into the international financial markets via Wall Street.

You clearly have no understanding of the economic mess the economy was in, in 1974. You missed Greenspan you missed the Tory calls for more deregulation you appear to have little understanding of anything other than what one might read in the likes of the Mail or the Torygraph. Perhaps you are a victim of having a selective memory?

In 1963/64 Labour inherrited the results of Conservative governments going cap in hand to the IMF on three occasions and the second Largest trading dificit ever recorded. Things were also in a mess in 1974. Whomever has been misleading you on Labour in office obviously has a very subjective approach to the issue.


Late reply, weekend away.
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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 16 2014, 03:00 PM
Tigger
Nov 16 2014, 02:16 PM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 12:28 PM
papasmurf
Nov 16 2014, 09:03 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
You know why I do not read your links. So do others.
Lamentable! ;D
You know why we do not read your links, there are none.
"We" ?

I have seen you REFUSE to read links that have blown your theories and pet hates clean out of the water!

File under so confused I'm even kidding myself now! ;D
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Lewis
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Nov 16 2014, 05:23 PM
Major Sinic
Nov 13 2014, 05:17 PM
C-too
Nov 13 2014, 04:14 PM
Major Sinic
Nov 13 2014, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
You ask for comformation then post your "Stated falsehood", without comformation of your claim??
I could if I was minded to provide evidence of Thatcher's favourite Guru, Alan Greenspan because he apologised after the meltdown saying "he did not think the banks would act so irresponsibly".
The Tories were repeatedly calling for more deregulation as heard on TV, they applauded deregulation taking place. Proving the City were in favour would be a little more difficult as it was something that came up during a political debate on TV.

One thing is certain, you will not find Greenspan, the leader of the Tory party, or the City anywhere on record asking for reregulation before the meltdown. All the 'brains' suddenly had to find a scapegoat after the meltdown and the Tories dishonestly led the way in blaming Brown/NL.

Are you fully aware of the state of the NHS in 1979 with its 12 to 18 months waiting times for operations?

Are you fully aware of the lack of maintainance of state schools outside of the 'Grant Maintained' system?
Fine so no evidence! I'm not surprised.

Could I just remind you that Labour was elected to govern this country in 1997 when Gordon Brown was appointed Chancellor. You seem to be implying that the complete lack of regulation implemented by Brown was somehow not his responsibility, but the Conservatives and the City were somehow at fault, although he had had ten years to tighten financial regulation had he seen fit. Instead he turned lightweight regulation into strawweight regulation. Whether you like it or not in your fantasy world of wonderful Labour, the buck stops with the guy in charge and in this case it was Brown.

What the heck the NHS waiting times in 1979 or the maintenance of state schools has to do with this thread in general, or financial regulation in particular I really have no idea. I am not surprised however that the country was in a mess then, since March 1979 spelt the end of five years of Labour Government, and an economic mess is what we have come to expect at the end of every Labour administration. As Affa points out a conscience was what was needed and having one ensured that I voted to get rid Callaghan, surely one of the most ineffectual, weak and vacillating post war prime ministers!
You did receive my explanation so your "no evidence" comment is uncalled for. I did say I would be able to find evidence about Greenspan. Thatcher was heavily influenced by him and that is why she started her Deregulation/Fincial Services/Free Market economy in 1985. She was quite explicite about it. Where were you at the time?

Greenspan apologises;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bX_vhojH8c

Putting it mildly it is wrong to accuse NL of profligate spending, that is why in part I remind you of the hidden debts in terms of the mess the NHS and school buildings were in, in 1997.

NL did a good job prior to the Meltdown in 2007/08, they were stumped by the economic poison pumped into the international financial markets via Wall Street.

You clearly have no understanding of the economic mess the economy was in, in 1974. You missed Greenspan you missed the Tory calls for more deregulation you appear to have little understanding of anything other than what one might read in the likes of the Mail or the Torygraph. Perhaps you are a victim of having a selective memory?

In 1963/64 Labour inherrited the results of Conservative governments going cap in hand to the IMF on three occasions and the second Largest trading dificit ever recorded. Things were also in a mess in 1974. Whomever has been misleading you on Labour in office obviously has a very subjective approach to the issue.


Late reply, weekend away.
Totally agree, however the poison you refer to has'nt gone away but had ebbed and is returning with a vengeance. I note that one of the useless PMs of all time, namely John Major has come up with a plausible reason for the popularity of UKIP, as the so-called recovery has bypassed most people, with nil or very little growth in wages. We are told growth is 3%, but the belief is that people are continuing to fall behind. Scammer's is going to get stuffed this coming Thursday as the Tories will lose hands down to UKIP. It will get even worse for the incompetents in the New Year when an estimated six backbenchers throw in the towel and join UKIP. When that happens Scameron's position will become untenable. They say that Ed Millipede has problems but they fall into insignificance compared to those facing Scameron, come the New Year!
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RJD
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Tigger
Nov 17 2014, 08:26 PM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 03:00 PM
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Nov 16 2014, 02:16 PM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 12:28 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Lamentable! ;D
You know why we do not read your links, there are none.
"We" ?

I have seen you REFUSE to read links that have blown your theories and pet hates clean out of the water!

File under so confused I'm even kidding myself now! ;D
Well you do not post any so that is OK and I have wasted a lot of time at the last place, so have others, following those put up by Mr Smurf. This in no way destroys any theories, but reinforces that I am selective in what I spend my time with. For the record I tend now to skip most of what you say as it has proven in the past to be just emotional tripe of the very ignorant variety and I am not obliged to respond to your pathetic attempts at serial trolling. Basically Tig., based on your history here and at the other place you appear to have little or nothing to say that interests me, so please forgive me and understand why I avoid your juvenile attempts at rudeness.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Nov 18 2014, 08:21 AM
Well you do not post any so that is OK and I have wasted a lot of time at the last place, so have others, following those put up by Mr Smurf.
You are supposed to read all of a link RJD, and the links embedded in it, not just do what Daily Mail journalists do, read the first two paragraphs.
Knowledge does not come easily and takes longer than two minutes.
Edited by papasmurf, Nov 18 2014, 09:38 AM.
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Tytoalba
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Tigger
Nov 13 2014, 10:20 PM
jaguar
Nov 13 2014, 06:43 PM
Tigger
Nov 13 2014, 05:37 PM
jaguar
Nov 13 2014, 12:41 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Then why specify they have these expensive toys? It looks to me like you threw this in for effect.

Remember not everyone on here has been brainwashed into looking down their noses at those less fortunate than themselves, most of us are only a handful of bad mistakes away from being in exactly the same position as these folks............
So why don't you stop brainwashing people into believing that only people that don't vote Labour are looking down their noses at those less fortunate than themselves.
In fact the only time I hear these type of comments are usually Lefties insulting anyone that disagrees with their opinions.

But carry on insulting people that disagree with you, it only convinces me that most lefties are all part of the vile party, and hopefully will turn more people from voting for Labour.
Not the brightest are you? And you reveal your right wing credentials by automatically assuming I'm a leftie because I go after the right wing nonsense that frequently appears on here! For your information I despise all the main political parties and have little time for the partisan politics you've been evidently displaying on this thread. I want to see Britain return to being a capitalist nation not welfare state for big business and banks.



Dear Tigger.

Is it possible for you reply to another poster without starting it with a put down? It does not add to your replies and can only cause offence. Your posts are worth the read if only for the expressiobn of opinion.
Are you from the Glasgow region, for they have a tendancy to be agressive in my experience. 8-)
I see you as a friend, for you voted against indipendence, and we are all stronger together than seperated.
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ACH1967
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I, RJD and Steve K have all in the past expressed our unwillingness to waste our time with PS's lazy technique of just spamming links, many of whioch when followed have been found to be saying something diametrically oppsed to the case PS was making.

Refusing to follow PS's links is not desiring "ignorance" but desiring not to have ones time wasted.

Whilst I do not have any links I was watching a repeat of HIGNFU which referred to the case of SERCO (for whom I used to work and quite happily as it happens) charging for the tagging of 18,000 people when there were only 15,000. That said any half decent project manager would never have let that happen in the first place so whislt there seems little denying that SERCO did wrong WTF were the people managing the contract doing?
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papasmurf
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ACH1967
Nov 18 2014, 12:14 PM
I, RJD and Steve K have all in the past expressed our unwillingness to waste our time with PS's lazy technique of just spamming links, many of whioch when followed have been found to be saying something diametrically oppsed to the case PS was making.

That is because you can't be bothered to read ALL of the links and the links in them.
Short copy and pastes are useless if you wish the be informed which you RJD and Steve K cannot be bothered to do.
Your ignorance of what is going on shows because if it.
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ACH1967
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papasmurf
Nov 18 2014, 12:21 PM
ACH1967
Nov 18 2014, 12:14 PM
I, RJD and Steve K have all in the past expressed our unwillingness to waste our time with PS's lazy technique of just spamming links, many of whioch when followed have been found to be saying something diametrically oppsed to the case PS was making.

That is because you can't be bothered to read ALL of the links and the links in them.
Short copy and pastes are useless if you wish the be informed which you RJD and Steve K cannot be bothered to do.
Your ignorance of what is going on shows because if it.


You can deny it as much as you want but .....
-------------------------------------------------------
!mod! I don't think so. Insults and abuse removed by moderator.
Please address the issue, and not the posting member.
----------------------------------------------------------

.....This doens't mean he doesn't have a point.
Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 19 2014, 08:53 AM.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Nov 18 2014, 09:38 AM
RJD
Nov 18 2014, 08:21 AM
Well you do not post any so that is OK and I have wasted a lot of time at the last place, so have others, following those put up by Mr Smurf.
You are supposed to read all of a link RJD, and the links embedded in it, not just do what Daily Mail journalists do, read the first two paragraphs.
Knowledge does not come easily and takes longer than two minutes.
You Mr Smurf need to take your own advice and demonstrate that you have by providing a synopsis of that which you claim supports your position. I am not alone here in finding that you have abused our trust in that matter and I will no longer waste 10 mSec with your links unless I can see that there is a reasonable chance that you have first read and inwardly digested. I am not obliged to read anything you post or follow any of your links Wild Goose or otherwise.

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RJD
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papasmurf
Nov 18 2014, 12:21 PM
ACH1967
Nov 18 2014, 12:14 PM
I, RJD and Steve K have all in the past expressed our unwillingness to waste our time with PS's lazy technique of just spamming links, many of whioch when followed have been found to be saying something diametrically oppsed to the case PS was making.

That is because you can't be bothered to read ALL of the links and the links in them.
Short copy and pastes are useless if you wish the be informed which you RJD and Steve K cannot be bothered to do.
Your ignorance of what is going on shows because if it.
Show some intellectual humility Mr Smurf, you will find that in time it will benefit your debating technique, which at the moment appears to have become a busted flush. You really do need to reflect as posting links that others avoid is not a good sign. I would like to have confidence in your claims and find your links informative and beneficial, but you have abused my trust in you far too often and without one iota of respect to the amount of my time you have wasted. So step up and provide your synopsis as your unqualified links are of no interest to me.
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