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Prosperous Britain.
Topic Started: Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM (3,373 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
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Replies:
Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 18 2014, 08:21 AM
Tigger
Nov 17 2014, 08:26 PM
RJD
Nov 16 2014, 03:00 PM
Tigger
Nov 16 2014, 02:16 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
You know why we do not read your links, there are none.
"We" ?

I have seen you REFUSE to read links that have blown your theories and pet hates clean out of the water!

File under so confused I'm even kidding myself now! ;D
Well you do not post any so that is OK and I have wasted a lot of time at the last place, so have others, following those put up by Mr Smurf. This in no way destroys any theories, but reinforces that I am selective in what I spend my time with. For the record I tend now to skip most of what you say as it has proven in the past to be just emotional tripe of the very ignorant variety and I am not obliged to respond to your pathetic attempts at serial trolling. Basically Tig., based on your history here and at the other place you appear to have little or nothing to say that interests me, so please forgive me and understand why I avoid your juvenile attempts at rudeness.
Sorry to be a bit pedantic but a few others on this very thread have been calling you out on the very same lacklustre blathering and serial avoidance!

Must be my imagination...........
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Nov 18 2014, 10:56 AM
Tigger
Nov 13 2014, 10:20 PM
jaguar
Nov 13 2014, 06:43 PM
Tigger
Nov 13 2014, 05:37 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
So why don't you stop brainwashing people into believing that only people that don't vote Labour are looking down their noses at those less fortunate than themselves.
In fact the only time I hear these type of comments are usually Lefties insulting anyone that disagrees with their opinions.

But carry on insulting people that disagree with you, it only convinces me that most lefties are all part of the vile party, and hopefully will turn more people from voting for Labour.
Not the brightest are you? And you reveal your right wing credentials by automatically assuming I'm a leftie because I go after the right wing nonsense that frequently appears on here! For your information I despise all the main political parties and have little time for the partisan politics you've been evidently displaying on this thread. I want to see Britain return to being a capitalist nation not welfare state for big business and banks.



Dear Tigger.

Is it possible for you reply to another poster without starting it with a put down? It does not add to your replies and can only cause offence. Your posts are worth the read if only for the expressiobn of opinion.
Are you from the Glasgow region, for they have a tendancy to be agressive in my experience. 8-)
I see you as a friend, for you voted against indipendence, and we are all stronger together than seperated.
How wonderfully patronising and stereotypical! ;D

I've lived in London and the East of England all my life and I was born in Essex, btw do you play bowls, wear Union Jack underpants and secretly hate dark people? 8-)

I want to see change in Britain and I'd happily see much of what you apparently look up to swept away because it is dragging the country down and holding us back, the future is for the young not the old.........
Edited by Tigger, Nov 18 2014, 10:18 PM.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 3 2014, 11:02 AM
Quote:
 
Britain is the most prosperous of the big economies in the European Union, a major report finds today, but is still behind countries like Switzerland and Norway which chose not to join the bloc. Legatum Institute's 2014 Prosperity Index reveals Norway as the most prosperous country in the world, with Switzerland at number two in the list.


Quote:
 
The UK is ranked at number 13, three places higher than last year's index, and one spot ahead of Germany. France came 21st in the list, Spain 26th and Italy 37th, while Russia is the worst performing country in Europe, falling seven places to 68th.


Quote:
 
The survey also found that the UK is a world-leader for entrepreneurship, coming 8th in the list, and that British people are some of the most charitable.
The study shows It found 74 per cent of Brits donate to charity, the 4th highest in the index, compared to just 42 per cent in Germany and 26 per cent in France.


LINK

Those earning $25,000 (£15,643) a year in the UK take home 88.22pc of their wages, compared to the average of 82.17pc in Western Europe.


Not such a bad sh1t-hole relatively speaking. Considering we are not in the EZ with all it's ongoing problems that have, seemingly, no solution, the UK is well placed as a modern mature democracy.
I think you'll find that many of these nations have better health services, education and quality of life.

Not that any of that is at all important to a well functioning society divided on class lines and where the bottom line is the only thing that matters.

And a World leader in entrepreneurship coming in 8th? :'(
Edited by Tigger, Nov 18 2014, 10:25 PM.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 14 2014, 12:26 PM
C-too
Nov 13 2014, 04:14 PM
Major Sinic
Nov 13 2014, 03:47 PM
C-too
Nov 13 2014, 10:24 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Care to provide evidence that at the time Gordon Brown 'restructured' financial regulation with such gross incompetence that your imagined villains; the Tory Party, the City and a group of nameless and unquantifiable Gurus, demanded less regulation? DP suggested that they demanded the removal of regulation altogether. At least your stated falsehood doesn't extend that far!

Two points. I am fully aware that the financial crisis was global and emmanated from the USA. I am also fully aware that entirely ineffective regulation of financial services, along with profligate and ineffectual public spending resulted in a far greater negative impact on the UK economy than a competent administration would have overseen, thanks in great measure to Gordon Brown and his two economic henchmen, Miliband and Balls.
You ask for comformation then post your "Stated falsehood", without comformation of your claim??
I could if I was minded to provide evidence of Thatcher's favourite Guru, Alan Greenspan because he apologised after the meltdown saying "he did not think the banks would act so irresponsibly".
The Tories were repeatedly calling for more deregulation as heard on TV, they applauded deregulation taking place. Proving the City were in favour would be a little more difficult as it was something that came up during a political debate on TV.

One thing is certain, you will not find Greenspan, the leader of the Tory party, or the City anywhere on record asking for reregulation before the meltdown. All the 'brains' suddenly had to find a scapegoat after the meltdown and the Tories dishonestly led the way in blaming Brown/NL.

Are you fully aware of the state of the NHS in 1979 with its 12 to 18 months waiting times for operations?

Are you fully aware of the lack of maintainance of state schools outside of the 'Grant Maintained' system?
You continue to be confused about running costs and CAPEX. You continue to ignore the fact that NHS improvements could have been obtained at a much lower cost by reforming the system and demanding productivity gains. Nobody objects to improvements only the massive lack of prudence which produced enormous amounts of waste of Taxpayers money. You continue to ignore that the education budget doubled and standards declined and the fact that the correlation between cost per pupil and attainment across the OECD is tenuous. The most significant factors are system and quality of Teaching.
You continue to forget that Labour pumped up the cost of Big Nanny to a level which is unaffordable at a rate greater than nearly ever other country in the OECD between 1997 and 2007. It made the UK the worst placed country to weather the storm. Labour are culpable and no matter how much white-wash you apply Joe Public will not be hoodwinked.
NHS improvements and reduction of waiting lists and waiting times were some of the priorities during the early years of NL. Your comments are absolutely nothing more than hindsight. If you were as clever as you think you are you would have been there sorting the problem out.

Education costs were mainly due to training more teachers, refurbishing old schools, building some new schools, reequipping state schools, disolving the 'Grant Maintained' schools system. In short it was about resolving all the problems left by the Tories in 1997.

NL did redistribute some of the wealth in a rich country that had the most unequal distribution of wealth in the developed world. This redistribution would not have been necessary but for the replacement of some of our industrial production encouraged by the introdution of the Financial services/Free Market economy in 1985.

NL's attempt to catch-up with other developed countries did let them down once the meltdown hit.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
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Heinrich
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Regular Guy
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RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
Instead of justifying yourself to Tigger, you might consider using the "Ignore" button.
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RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
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Heinrich
Nov 20 2014, 01:16 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
Instead of justifying yourself to Tigger, you might consider using the "Ignore" button.
I usually do, but his trolling has become a bit obsessive so I find it incumbent on me to set him straight from time to time. However, your advice is sound.
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Lewis
Member Avatar
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 20 2014, 01:44 PM
Heinrich
Nov 20 2014, 01:16 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
Instead of justifying yourself to Tigger, you might consider using the "Ignore" button.
I usually do, but his trolling has become a bit obsessive so I find it incumbent on me to set him straight from time to time. However, your advice is sound.
What about your attempt at trolling, bad mouthing and downright rudeness?
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Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
So what? Join the club.

You lived in a society that allowed you to do these things by paying for you to realise your potential and having that safety net in place and yet here you are pathetically attacking it and ensuring you pull the ladder up behind you! Can you not see the utter hypocrisy of this position, the horrible truth is if you had been born thirty years earlier the intact class system and prejudice would have ensured you stayed firmly on that sink estate.

What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Lewis
Nov 20 2014, 06:28 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 01:44 PM
Heinrich
Nov 20 2014, 01:16 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Instead of justifying yourself to Tigger, you might consider using the "Ignore" button.
I usually do, but his trolling has become a bit obsessive so I find it incumbent on me to set him straight from time to time. However, your advice is sound.
What about your attempt at trolling, bad mouthing and downright rudeness?
No problem, I'm from one of those poor estates RJD was on about the difference is I have never romanticised it or tried to wear it as a badge of honour............

It was shit full stop and I'd not wish it on anybody.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Heinrich
Nov 7 2014, 11:56 AM
In a socialist command economy, essential goods and services are owned by the people who pay taxes and buy these goods and services.

These publicly owned enterprises can pay for themselves or are subsidized.

In the DDR, for example, there was no unemployment and everyone had a right to a job and free at-the-point-of-delivery medical care, education and subsidized housing. There was no homelessness. This has nothing to do with redistributing wealth.
No Heinrich, the reality is that, in a country which has the word "democratic" in its name - which generally meant it was anything but - the essential goods and services are owned by the state, generally run at the whim of the political elite for their benefit, whether that be economic or egotistical.

In the DDR there may well have been no unemployment, but when the wall came down and west germany had to pick up the tab to drag the derelict hell hole into the 20th century it nearly killed the west german dream.
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Heinrich
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johnofgwent
Nov 20 2014, 08:36 PM
Heinrich
Nov 7 2014, 11:56 AM
In a socialist command economy, essential goods and services are owned by the people who pay taxes and buy these goods and services.

These publicly owned enterprises can pay for themselves or are subsidized.

In the DDR, for example, there was no unemployment and everyone had a right to a job and free at-the-point-of-delivery medical care, education and subsidized housing. There was no homelessness. This has nothing to do with redistributing wealth.
No Heinrich, the reality is that, in a country which has the word "democratic" in its name - which generally meant it was anything but - the essential goods and services are owned by the state, generally run at the whim of the political elite for their benefit, whether that be economic or egotistical.

In the DDR there may well have been no unemployment, but when the wall came down and west germany had to pick up the tab to drag the derelict hell hole into the 20th century it nearly killed the west german dream.
There is more than one measure of prosperity. Having a decent standard of living with full employment and basic public services has a lot to recommend it. There are too many people in England not making ends meet. I am not referring to City of London bankers.
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C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
RJD still does not understand that the only thing that appears to make his arguments remotely valid, is hindsight coupled with the effects of the meltdown.
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C-too
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Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Nov 20 2014, 08:12 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
So what? Join the club.

You lived in a society that allowed you to do these things by paying for you to realise your potential and having that safety net in place and yet here you are pathetically attacking it and ensuring you pull the ladder up behind you! Can you not see the utter hypocrisy of this position, the horrible truth is if you had been born thirty years earlier the intact class system and prejudice would have ensured you stayed firmly on that sink estate.

What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further.
Well put Tigger.
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Rich
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"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
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RJD
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C-too
Nov 20 2014, 11:39 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
RJD still does not understand that the only thing that appears to make his arguments remotely valid, is hindsight coupled with the effects of the meltdown.
Sorry C2 but your claims hinge on understanding the claims you make and clearly you do not. You, I believe through ignorance, muddy the waters in order to find some belated justification for the Great NL Splurge. You then have the temerity to claim that others are using hindsight. The greatest problem facing the UK economy is reducing the massively over blown Public Sector all other problems hinge on this, it is the Millstone that stops all rebalancing of our economy and everyone but you know who did the pumping, a pumping that was to no great benefit too anyone. You spend your days hiding this obvious fact away from view, you are an Ostrich and you and your lot are prepared to repeat exactly the same mistake yet again and kid yourself that it is all to do with your altruism. That is BS because in doing this you are killing off all chances of rebalancing the economy and creating real jobs, good jobs, full time jobs with acceptable wages, in the future and at the same time hobble future generations with a massive bill to cover your selfishness. We cannot move from 2008 to a rebalanced economy which consumes less, produces more without significant pain, it is not possible. We cannot get there unless we are prepared to compete for such jobs, it is not possible. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?
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ACH1967
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Heinrich
Nov 20 2014, 01:16 PM
RJD
Nov 20 2014, 08:32 AM
Tigger
Nov 19 2014, 07:50 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
Memory problems and a casual attitude with to the truth still blight this posters meanderings.

And how irresponsible to spend taxpayers money on education and the health service! And an outstanding example of your own utter hypocrisy as you got educated to university level (so you claim! ;D ) and doubtless received the fruits of the NHS, all for free!

A decent person would hang their head in shame.......

Pathetic attempt at personalised trolling that indicates, once again, the vacuity of this Poster. Not a single attempt at addressing the subject matter. Not ever a single reference to a source of data, except of course to a satirical magazine designed for schoolboys which is no doubt misinterpreted.
Yes I went to a State school. My parents were dirt poor.
Yes I went to College and then University paid for by my Employer. I had a grant from the Local Gov. for my one year MSc.
Yes I am suffering with cancer, the one that kills, and yes I paid via my private insurance for all of my treatment, plus a bit out of my wallet.
Yes I have used private Dentistry since the early 1960s. I purchased my hearing aids and my spectacles with my own money.
Yes I have contributed high levels of taxes to the State over decades, still do, and feel that I have more than done my bit. In fact I have paid in enough for a few dozen others.
So why should I hang my head in shame, most would be proud of such achievements.

What is the matter Tig. lost your way again so you have decided on a bit of character assassination? Pity that as always you attempt such from a platform of complete ignorance.
Not got the message yet? That you are out of your league here and rate with the Dunderheads? So best you find yourself a Chat-room that caters for those that by compulsion spew ignorant yellow bile.
Instead of justifying yourself to Tigger, you might consider using the "Ignore" button.
Is there an ignore button?
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ACH1967
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RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:06 AM
C-too
Nov 20 2014, 11:39 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
RJD still does not understand that the only thing that appears to make his arguments remotely valid, is hindsight coupled with the effects of the meltdown.
Sorry C2 but your claims hinge on understanding the claims you make and clearly you do not. You, I believe through ignorance, muddy the waters in order to find some belated justification for the Great NL Splurge. You then have the temerity to claim that others are using hindsight. The greatest problem facing the UK economy is reducing the massively over blown Public Sector all other problems hinge on this, it is the Millstone that stops all rebalancing of our economy and everyone but you know who did the pumping, a pumping that was to no great benefit too anyone. You spend your days hiding this obvious fact away from view, you are an Ostrich and you and your lot are prepared to repeat exactly the same mistake yet again and kid yourself that it is all to do with your altruism. That is BS because in doing this you are killing off all chances of rebalancing the economy and creating real jobs, good jobs, full time jobs with acceptable wages, in the future and at the same time hobble future generations with a massive bill to cover your selfishness. We cannot move from 2008 to a rebalanced economy which consumes less, produces more without significant pain, it is not possible. We cannot get there unless we are prepared to compete for such jobs, it is not possible. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?
Is the state a big flatulent Nanny in realtion to other countries that are similar to ours?

The size of the state was increased but was it necessary?

Is it the state or is it just the "chill wind of globalisation" that is exposing our weakness with regard to the large number of people (this is one of your favourite phrases coming up and I agree with it) with nothing more to offer than their manual dexterity that need to be given tax credits to survive?
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RJD
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Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
It is amusing that the left so full of anger, with so little to offer in the way of solutions, cannot see that it was their own Tribe that has done the most to harm their socio-economic standing. Until the left understand the harm they have caused us all they will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. It is because they resist the learning of what has caused our malaise, which is both social and economic, I doubt their sincerity when they claim that their interests are in the greater good for the many. This has been at the root of their politics for decades and driven by pure envy and the spite of "if I cannot have such then neither will they". Whilst this disease is not unique to the UK it has spread to a greater extent than most other EU countries throughout the body politic. The revving up of the Spite and Envy Brigade by Milli and his mates has now become positively vulgar and patently obvious.

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Affa
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RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:06 AM

. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?

When will the penny drop, and you finally realise that the cost of the State is greater under your ideology than under the ideology that seeks to increase opportunity for ALL, and has shown that does work? Oh; and accept that the government has an obligation to serve everyone, not just those in least need of assistance. Those on Welfare are a priority concern, not to cut their benefits, but to become self sufficient.

The answer isn't to abandon people to hopelessness, to take the ladders away, but as Blair did, put the ladders in place and help people onto them.



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ACH1967
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Affa
Nov 21 2014, 11:07 AM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:06 AM

. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?

When will the penny drop, and you finally realise that the cost of the State is greater under your ideology than under the ideology that seeks to increase opportunity for ALL, and has shown that does work? Oh; and accept that the government has an obligation to serve everyone, not just those in least need of assistance. Those on Welfare are a priority concern, not to cut their benefits, but to become self sufficient.

The answer isn't to abandon people to hopelessness, to take the ladders away, but as Blair did, put the ladders in place and help people onto them.



To be clear are you saying that it is your contention that the cost of the state is higher under capitalism than it is under socialism?
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Tigger
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Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
Well considering your age the dumbing down was going on long before New Labour got their hands on the controls...........
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:18 AM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
It is amusing that the left so full of anger, with so little to offer in the way of solutions, cannot see that it was their own Tribe that has done the most to harm their socio-economic standing. Until the left understand the harm they have caused us all they will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. It is because they resist the learning of what has caused our malaise, which is both social and economic, I doubt their sincerity when they claim that their interests are in the greater good for the many. This has been at the root of their politics for decades and driven by pure envy and the spite of "if I cannot have such then neither will they". Whilst this disease is not unique to the UK it has spread to a greater extent than most other EU countries throughout the body politic. The revving up of the Spite and Envy Brigade by Milli and his mates has now become positively vulgar and patently obvious.

Pure and unadulterated drivel.

The problem is neo liberal economic policy that aims to extract income while doing little constructive in return, the left/right argument is dead in the water as they are now both reading from the same hymn book.

File under Karl Marx ate my hamster.
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RJD
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Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
Well considering your age the dumbing down was going on long before New Labour got their hands on the controls...........
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:08 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:18 AM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
It is amusing that the left so full of anger, with so little to offer in the way of solutions, cannot see that it was their own Tribe that has done the most to harm their socio-economic standing. Until the left understand the harm they have caused us all they will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. It is because they resist the learning of what has caused our malaise, which is both social and economic, I doubt their sincerity when they claim that their interests are in the greater good for the many. This has been at the root of their politics for decades and driven by pure envy and the spite of "if I cannot have such then neither will they". Whilst this disease is not unique to the UK it has spread to a greater extent than most other EU countries throughout the body politic. The revving up of the Spite and Envy Brigade by Milli and his mates has now become positively vulgar and patently obvious.

Pure and unadulterated drivel.

The problem is neo liberal economic policy that aims to extract income while doing little constructive in return, the left/right argument is dead in the water as they are now both reading from the same hymn book.

File under Karl Marx ate my hamster.
I see none of you evidence. You must have some I suppose?
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ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
Well considering your age the dumbing down was going on long before New Labour got their hands on the controls...........
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
Was it Spite and envy that destoyed Grammar Schools or the objection to Streaming?
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Heinrich
Member Avatar
Regular Guy
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ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 02:03 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
Well considering your age the dumbing down was going on long before New Labour got their hands on the controls...........
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
Was it Spite and envy that destoyed Grammar Schools or the objection to Streaming?
Segregating a minority of children at the early age of 11 to provide them with a proper education as part of a selection for third level education on the basis of an exam is both ludicrous and discriminatory. It is morally indefensible to do this at taxpayers' expense.
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Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
Well considering your age the dumbing down was going on long before New Labour got their hands on the controls...........
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
Gove has caused chaos in the education system and has pissed off above all parents who have seen his "reforms" further damage education in this country, Gove was sacked because those at the sharp end, parents and teachers had had enough of his amateur meddling and thinly veiled business ethos.

The Conservatives have a long history of quietly keeping the lower levels of society out of higher education and ensuring that the best opportunities go to people like themselves.
Edited by Tigger, Nov 21 2014, 04:54 PM.
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C-too
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Honourable Member
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RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:06 AM
C-too
Nov 20 2014, 11:39 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
RJD still does not understand that the only thing that appears to make his arguments remotely valid, is hindsight coupled with the effects of the meltdown.
Sorry C2 but your claims hinge on understanding the claims you make and clearly you do not. You, I believe through ignorance, muddy the waters in order to find some belated justification for the Great NL Splurge. You then have the temerity to claim that others are using hindsight. The greatest problem facing the UK economy is reducing the massively over blown Public Sector all other problems hinge on this, it is the Millstone that stops all rebalancing of our economy and everyone but you know who did the pumping, a pumping that was to no great benefit too anyone. You spend your days hiding this obvious fact away from view, you are an Ostrich and you and your lot are prepared to repeat exactly the same mistake yet again and kid yourself that it is all to do with your altruism. That is BS because in doing this you are killing off all chances of rebalancing the economy and creating real jobs, good jobs, full time jobs with acceptable wages, in the future and at the same time hobble future generations with a massive bill to cover your selfishness. We cannot move from 2008 to a rebalanced economy which consumes less, produces more without significant pain, it is not possible. We cannot get there unless we are prepared to compete for such jobs, it is not possible. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?
It's the same old whinge and moan based upon post meltdown thinking.

"Big Nanny" as you call it, is a product of the growing percentage of the population being denied skilled and semi skilled status, a problem exacerbated by the Deregulation/Financial Services/Free Market "Big Bang" economy introduced in 1985. An approach that appeared to be doing well up until the meltdown. It was after the meltdown that deficits and Debts took off.

The sad part is that there are people like yourself who wish to distort the situation for political purposes.



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C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
C-too
Nov 21 2014, 05:51 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:06 AM
C-too
Nov 20 2014, 11:39 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2014, 08:20 AM
C2 still has not understood that the Public Sector Budget does not cover CAPEX. The ill begotten Labour PFI is not in that number. Still as the Usuals here did not know what SMEs were or how VAT applies on small businesses, are incapable of reading a Balance Sheet etc. etc. many even confused the National Debt with the Public Sector Deficit and still do, then what does one expect from the Ignoranti that perpetuate Red Nag myths. Understand that Labour only concocted their excuses for flushing Taxpayers money into the NHS and Education once they had given the green light. Such expenditure was not justified on anything other than the concept that Labour must spend and the more it spends the better. Now they seek to white-wash.
RJD still does not understand that the only thing that appears to make his arguments remotely valid, is hindsight coupled with the effects of the meltdown.
Sorry C2 but your claims hinge on understanding the claims you make and clearly you do not. You, I believe through ignorance, muddy the waters in order to find some belated justification for the Great NL Splurge. You then have the temerity to claim that others are using hindsight. The greatest problem facing the UK economy is reducing the massively over blown Public Sector all other problems hinge on this, it is the Millstone that stops all rebalancing of our economy and everyone but you know who did the pumping, a pumping that was to no great benefit too anyone. You spend your days hiding this obvious fact away from view, you are an Ostrich and you and your lot are prepared to repeat exactly the same mistake yet again and kid yourself that it is all to do with your altruism. That is BS because in doing this you are killing off all chances of rebalancing the economy and creating real jobs, good jobs, full time jobs with acceptable wages, in the future and at the same time hobble future generations with a massive bill to cover your selfishness. We cannot move from 2008 to a rebalanced economy which consumes less, produces more without significant pain, it is not possible. We cannot get there unless we are prepared to compete for such jobs, it is not possible. The left and Milli and his lot say little or nothing about the cost of Big Nanny or the size of the National Debt, why?
It's the same old whinge and moan based upon post meltdown thinking.

"Big Nanny" as you call it, is a product of the growing percentage of the population being denied skilled and semi skilled status, a problem exacerbated by the Deregulation/Financial Services/Free Market "Big Bang" economy introduced in 1985. An approach that appeared to be doing well up until the meltdown. It was after the meltdown that deficits and Debts took off.

The sad part is that there are people like yourself who wish to distort the situation for political purposes.



The following has some interesting information on education.

See Article IV Education (second page) page 11. Bottom left hand corner for quick info.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf
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Affa
Senior Member
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ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 11:13 AM

To be clear are you saying that it is your contention that the cost of the state is higher under capitalism than it is under socialism?

Do get real; Socialists are capitalists too - even Communists embrace Capitalism - you are stuck in the past. What next, the unions again?

To be clear - State Spending per GDP has never been lowerthan when Socialists were in power, and has been regularly higher under Conservative governments. Why GDP - because it measures 'affordability', a higher GDP, the more affordable spending becomes.
To take one part of spending, the Welfare bill, this is always increased when there are Tories in Government.

I mentioned a penny dropping ...... heard it yet?

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C-too
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Heinrich
Nov 21 2014, 03:50 PM
ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 02:03 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
Was it Spite and envy that destoyed Grammar Schools or the objection to Streaming?
Segregating a minority of children at the early age of 11 to provide them with a proper education as part of a selection for third level education on the basis of an exam is both ludicrous and discriminatory. It is morally indefensible to do this at taxpayers' expense.
Hmm, not often that I agree with Heiny but he is obviously right on this occasion.
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Lewis
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Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
The dumbing down process must have started when you were a kiddie Rich! Judging by the evidence you present.
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Lewis
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RJD
Nov 21 2014, 08:18 AM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
It is amusing that the left so full of anger, with so little to offer in the way of solutions, cannot see that it was their own Tribe that has done the most to harm their socio-economic standing. Until the left understand the harm they have caused us all they will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. It is because they resist the learning of what has caused our malaise, which is both social and economic, I doubt their sincerity when they claim that their interests are in the greater good for the many. This has been at the root of their politics for decades and driven by pure envy and the spite of "if I cannot have such then neither will they". Whilst this disease is not unique to the UK it has spread to a greater extent than most other EU countries throughout the body politic. The revving up of the Spite and Envy Brigade by Milli and his mates has now become positively vulgar and patently obvious.

He is so full of outmoded stereotypes that he is unreal. Trust you can provide substantiation in support of these?

Just who are the 'left' you so vehemently criticize? If you mean the Labour Party, don't you realise left wing politics were dropped by them in the 1980s?
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RJD
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Heinrich
Nov 21 2014, 03:50 PM
ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 02:03 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 21 2014, 12:04 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Certainly was, but the last lot put their foot on the gas. The big mistake was not to fullfill the 1949 Education Act (I think it was 49) which called for a tripartite system; academic, technical and general. As per that which had already existed in Germany for nigh on 100 years. The first call in the HofC to copy the German system was in the 1880s. But we did the academic and the general and forgot the technical to save money, then out of pure class driven spite we went out and destroyed most of the good grammar schools. replacing these with the bog standard tick box Compos. The rest is history. We even spent a fortune, under the last lot, in order to continue the dumbing down, but without the leaky roofs. Who gained? Not the pupils, only the Teachers and the Builders and the Bankers. The Poor will never ever get a good education suitable for their bright kids unless we take politics out of the equation and put the power into their hands. Education is also a commodity and parents are with their children customers who I wish would be more demanding.
The current lot made a reasonable start with Gove then in the face of vested interests threw in the towel. What chance Britain in a global market place where our competitors have pushy Tiger Mums?
Was it Spite and envy that destoyed Grammar Schools or the objection to Streaming?
Segregating a minority of children at the early age of 11 to provide them with a proper education as part of a selection for third level education on the basis of an exam is both ludicrous and discriminatory. It is morally indefensible to do this at taxpayers' expense.
The is no need to select on the basis of examination, this could be a decision largely influenced by parents and the schools. I am all for easy free flow between schools as some kids will change direction of interests and others will not cope with wrong agendas. However, the thrust should be to satisfy parental demands even the wrong ones, rather that follow that dictated by Politicians. I want to see the authority of children's education placed with parents and not usurped by Big Nanny State. One of the big problems today is that Big Nanny has usurped much of the role of individual parents and left them wondering what they are for. If you want a society where the individual takes more responsibility for his/her life's choices, which I do, then best let them be involved in such.
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RJD
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Lewis
Nov 21 2014, 11:41 PM
Rich
Nov 21 2014, 12:09 AM
"What selfish fools like you have done is ruin this country by criticising decency and the moral obligations that benefit society and ensure that what little talent we still possess is diluted even further."

Dumbing down and a race to the bottom by Labour has done it's level best to achieve that aim.
The dumbing down process must have started when you were a kiddie Rich! Judging by the evidence you present.
Based on your postings here, if that passes for statistically sound evidence which it clearly does for you, then this went into overdrive in more recent times. In fact it appears that most under 40 year olds have been blighted and to such an extent they are ignorant of their shortcomings. Touche.
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Heinrich
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RJD
Nov 22 2014, 09:00 AM
Heinrich
Nov 21 2014, 03:50 PM
ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 02:03 PM
RJD
Nov 21 2014, 12:17 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Was it Spite and envy that destoyed Grammar Schools or the objection to Streaming?
Segregating a minority of children at the early age of 11 to provide them with a proper education as part of a selection for third level education on the basis of an exam is both ludicrous and discriminatory. It is morally indefensible to do this at taxpayers' expense.
The is no need to select on the basis of examination, this could be a decision largely influenced by parents and the schools. I am all for easy free flow between schools as some kids will change direction of interests and others will not cope with wrong agendas. However, the thrust should be to satisfy parental demands even the wrong ones, rather that follow that dictated by Politicians. I want to see the authority of children's education placed with parents and not usurped by Big Nanny State. One of the big problems today is that Big Nanny has usurped much of the role of individual parents and left them wondering what they are for. If you want a society where the individual takes more responsibility for his/her life's choices, which I do, then best let them be involved in such.
The state is responsible for state schools. The wealthy upper middle class can do what they like with their own money as long as adequate standards are maintained. Children are citizens too.
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ACH1967
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Affa
Nov 21 2014, 07:34 PM
ACH1967
Nov 21 2014, 11:13 AM

To be clear are you saying that it is your contention that the cost of the state is higher under capitalism than it is under socialism?

Do get real; Socialists are capitalists too - even Communists embrace Capitalism - you are stuck in the past. What next, the unions again?

To be clear - State Spending per GDP has never been lowerthan when Socialists were in power, and has been regularly higher under Conservative governments. Why GDP - because it measures 'affordability', a higher GDP, the more affordable spending becomes.
To take one part of spending, the Welfare bill, this is always increased when there are Tories in Government.

I mentioned a penny dropping ...... heard it yet?

Ask a simple question get an unnecessarily rude response.

Thanks Affa I'll return the courtesy when I can be bothered.
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