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| Itemised tax spends | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 4 2014, 05:14 PM (561 Views) | |
| rizzo | Nov 4 2014, 05:14 PM Post #1 |
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Junior Member
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I see that Cameron's latest wheeze is to show tax-payers exactly how much they individually contribute to each pot. I have only briefly read this ''idea'' but it would appear that the wording is heavily slanted towards the amount contributed to benefits. Also itemised amongst others is the overseas aid figure, now Cameron is eager to point out that benefits MUST be reduced but no mention of reducing overseas aid, why is that? Could it be that the fat cats who cream off a goodly slice of that aid rush out to buy luxury cars, planes, yachts etc. along with shopping trips for their wives to London's Bond Street? Doesn't Cameron realise that the majority of benefit payments get spent in the community and constantly reducing that figure only leads to more crime? |
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| C-too | Nov 7 2014, 08:16 AM Post #41 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Honourable Member
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Welcome to the board. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2014, 09:48 AM Post #42 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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If the 'Government's own website' shows that only 3% of welfare goes to the unemployed then it is hard to understand how an initiative to improve financial transparency from the government can be considered a cynical ploy to justify cuts to welfare and to turn the hard working taxpayer against the unemployed on benefits. Like many other left wingers on this forum you see conspiracies, shadows and monsters where they don't exist. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2014, 09:57 AM Post #43 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Of course he doesn't because he knows that this statement is simply untrue. The reality is that according to latest figures crime is down by 15% in England and Wales. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/24/crime-rate-england-wales-falls-lowest-level-33-years I do wish that so many of the left wingers on this forum would stop peddling lies, rumour, fairy tales and conspiracy theories in an attempt to justify their discredited political philosophy. |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 7 2014, 11:35 AM Post #44 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Are you suggesting that the unermployed are naturally dishonest and will automatically turn to crime if they do not get what they want. ? That seems to be a very cynical POV and rather insultig to members of our communities. Crime is committed by criminals and law breakers,. and we should not make excuses for them. |
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| C-too | Nov 7 2014, 11:46 AM Post #45 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Honourable Member
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I agree, nevertheless there is a trend that the higher unemployment is and the poorer people are then a percentage of the people suffering these inequalities will turn their backs on society and indulge in crime and or in the black market. For a lot of people unemployment is not just being out of work, it is a position of embarrassment, frustration and for some anger. One of the weaknesses of the human emotional system is the feeling of or in some cases the perception of, rejection. Each failed application for a job is a form of rejection for many. |
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| rizzo | Nov 7 2014, 12:44 PM Post #46 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Where do YOU think the benefit payments get spent then? If people become so desperate some WILL turn to crime, have you ever been so short of money that you cannot afford food? The fact that crime figures are supposedly falling is that some low level crimes such as burglery don't show on the statistics now, coupled with that many people don't even bother to report crimes as they know through experience that the police are not interested. |
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| ACH1967 | Nov 7 2014, 01:21 PM Post #47 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Don't like the figures...dismiss the figures. Care to reference the fact that burglary isn't recorded anymore? |
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| Lefty | Nov 7 2014, 02:46 PM Post #48 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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New Member
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The point I was making is the government's own website shows this, yet George Osborne neglects to show these figures in his 'transparent' tax statement. He's just picking the statistics which suit his argument ahead of the election. It's Tory propaganda and at a cost of £5m to the same hard-working taxpayers he claims to defend. Edited by Lefty, Nov 7 2014, 02:49 PM.
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| ACH1967 | Nov 7 2014, 03:19 PM Post #49 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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"He's just picking statistics that suit his argument" well duuuuhhhh he's a f**king politician. It's what they do. |
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| Lefty | Nov 7 2014, 03:31 PM Post #50 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Indeed, but it would be good to see some more honest, straight-faced politicians. Maybe then there will be more public trust. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| RJD | Nov 7 2014, 04:13 PM Post #51 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Prudence and Thrift
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Or just maybe, maybe mind, the Taxpayers should know where their money is spent with an great emphasis on the THIER. Or is it an impertinence to consider it other that the State's money? |
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| Lefty | Nov 7 2014, 04:18 PM Post #52 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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In theory, I have no problem with a proper transparent tax statement. The issue I have is the one proposed by George Osborne is not transparent - it only tells us what he wants people to know. Suzanne Moore in the Guardian sums it up well http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/03/tory-tax-statement-welfare-budget-unemployment-pensions-cuts |
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| RJD | Nov 7 2014, 04:37 PM Post #53 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Prudence and Thrift
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Yes I know all that, they probably drafted the article before seeing any pie charts. But it has been normal to lump OAP in the Welfare slice of the pie for a very long time now, Brown did exactly the same as that is where it belongs. The only claim you can make is maybe it would be better to show more slices. Why not? The rest is lefty whining and whinging. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2014, 04:38 PM Post #54 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It does sum it up well. The tories have been very deft at demonising the weak and vulnerable. Maybe the young people will question WTF the baby boomers are taking so much from society...and dont tell us they ' paid' it because they havent. Previous governments havent put their pension contributions into a post office account and watched it gently grow, they have spent it and expected others to take up the obligation later. |
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| rizzo | Nov 7 2014, 04:45 PM Post #55 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Don't like the figures...dismiss the figures. The Telegraph, amongst other publications, have quite recently shown that the police manipulate the crime figures to suit. Many crimes only are shown if they are solved or if violence is involved.<br /><br />The police actually admit this fact, if you care to search you will find that I'm correct, sadly. Edited by rizzo, Nov 7 2014, 04:46 PM.
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| RJD | Nov 7 2014, 04:52 PM Post #56 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Prudence and Thrift
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Good point. Maybe as well as the Spending Graphic it might be an idea to print the total national debt plus all liabilitis on wage slips every month to remind everyone that we are still binging on our grandchildren's tab.UK National Debt Clock Increasing at the rate of £5170 every second. That is we are borrowing from the future to pay for our current consumption at the rate of £5170 every second. Selfish bastards.
Put the lot on payslips, maybe on every Public Sector PC screen across the land. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2014, 05:26 PM Post #57 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I dont consider the meagre allowances given to the unemployed as ' binging' TBH. In fact 'welfare' makes it possible for people to be low paid and not be impoverished so maybe the employers should be given their own special slip showing working tax credits paid |
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| Steve K | Nov 7 2014, 05:50 PM Post #58 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Once and future cynic
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Well some of you may have noticed I've been repeatedly asking Affa to back that up with a link and less than getting an answer. Affa seems to want to hide his source, well Google and a curious mind can be a bugger for those with something to hide Affa you copied it from This Blog didn't you (and without crediting as well !nono! ) So let's look at what that vexatious blogger says is the source
But he's got it totally wrong, just at look at his ukspending link, use the drill down and all is revealed:
Far from "administration" the bulk of it is in the monies Local Authorities deliver as serious benefits. See Annex A of This report that just for England shows the big hitter items are very much anything but administration Well as you said yourself
Just anti gov propaganda this time. And you bought it Edited by Steve K, Nov 7 2014, 05:52 PM.
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| Affa | Nov 7 2014, 07:28 PM Post #59 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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You are calling me a liar! |
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| Steve K | Nov 7 2014, 07:57 PM Post #60 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Once and future cynic
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No I did not and I am not I said you refused to answer questions about a highly contentious £Bmulti figure and I've now shown why. It was rubbish, based on a silly blog written by a propagandist who didn't read his source properly Can you challenge that? |
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| Affa | Nov 7 2014, 09:12 PM Post #61 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I had answered .........
You have made contradictory allegations that in effect 'call the above lies'. I did attempt to find the original link, even used the search term myth to find it, and google did not return it ......... and to prevent you calling me a liar ........ https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk+welfare+spending+myth&oq=uk+welfare+spending+myth&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l3.14055j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 I am not as petulant as some, need no correction, I have corrected the wrong doing myself so that readers will know the right of it. |
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| Affa | Nov 7 2014, 09:26 PM Post #62 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Want to know how much Welfare was costing the Nation after eighteen years of Conservative government? An itemised explanation wasn't thought a good idea at that time, so why now? Is it to show that welfare spending is actually lower today than then? |
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| Steve K | Nov 7 2014, 10:12 PM Post #63 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Once and future cynic
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Your answer you refer to did not include that £56.7 figure or a link to a page that included it so I asked again. When I got no answer I looked myself and found it - as it happens very quickly It all came from a blog either incompetently misreading or deliberately misrepresenting the data to give the false impressions that (a) staggering £56B is being spent on administration and (b) that is being deliberately misrepresented in these itemised letters to tax payers. I repeat that it is my belief you got taken in by that Blogger. But we still have a prominent post by you giving a seriously false impression about the Treasury. Why not correct it? |
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| Affa | Nov 8 2014, 05:24 PM Post #64 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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If it is the size of the Welfare Bill that offends you as a tax payer, if reducing this bill is a big part of you making a vote decision, then you will vote Labour. The record shows that the Welfare spend always increases when the Conservatives are in government, and has only been significantly reduced by Labour in government. |
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| Lewis | Nov 8 2014, 07:27 PM Post #65 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Interesting graph that clearly implies that the most welfare profligate are the incompetent Tories. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2014, 05:59 PM Post #66 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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If you are replying to my post I don't see the relevence, but I suspect that you are replying to another post altogether |
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7:32 PM Jul 11