| Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Rock Bottom? | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Nov 13 2014, 10:37 AM (379 Views) | |
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 10:37 AM Post #1 |
Prudence and Thrift
  ![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
|
Not only does Ed have a problem with the camera and the fact he was recently one of Gordon Brown's Henchmen, he is suffering from the fact that neither he nor the rest of us know what Labour is for. He needs to get out and put his stake in the ground as relying on UKIP to deliver him to No.10 is a dangerous game to play. As we can see, no message converts into not being up to the task. I find it very confusing will Ed cut the deficit yes or no as at the moment he appears to be whistling out of both sides of his mouth and anus at the same time. Is this really rock bottom for Ed or can it get worse? A trend has set in that paints him up as a no-hoper, what can he now do to reverse this? |
 |
 
|
| papasmurf | Nov 13 2014, 10:54 AM Post #2 |
|
Senior Member
|
RJD, give the media propaganda onslaught against Miliband what else do you expect. The newspapers are terrified of there being a Labour government because Leveson will be applied in full. |
|
|
|
| Affa | Nov 13 2014, 11:08 AM Post #3 |
|
Senior Member
|
We've had worse, and worse candidates (all parties included). However, Ed M does not demonstrate Statesmanship, or command confidence and respect from the electorate. None of which would prevent him from being successful as PM providing his policies are effective in the aim of improving the nation's economic health. If the policies are workable, Whitehall can make them work. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 11:25 AM Post #4 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
You see conspiracy everywhere. Most serial Labour Voters do not think Milli is up to the task. As for Leveson you know my views and they do not conform to your desire for State control of pretty well everything. I trust Politicians less than just about everyone else including second hand car salesmen. I see a free Press, as far as that is plausible, and an open capitalist market as the main barriers to overbearing "I know best" Politicians. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 11:27 AM Post #5 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
Maybe you are privy to his policies? At the moment he appears to be keeping these mainly to himself and hoping Farage will be his winning ticket. |
|
|
|
| Affa | Nov 13 2014, 11:38 AM Post #6 |
|
Senior Member
|
The topic here is Ed's fitness to govern, his character, his limitations. And the point made was it is policy that is more important than having charisma - Cameron being a case in example. A good orator, a lousy (and often disingenuous) PM. All we can say at the moment about his policies is 'they are not Tory policy', and that in itself is attractive to voters. |
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 13 2014, 12:14 PM Post #7 |
|
Senior Member
|
Don't you mean New Labour policies? I have had one of them emailed to me recently in answer to a question I asked. (No I am not satisfied with the answer.) (Also before you come back with the obvious riposte, I get email answers to questions from the three usual suspect political parties, plus the Green Party and UKIP.) Thank you for your email regarding the Work Capability Assessment. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us, and apologise for the delay in responding. Labour believes that the Government must work to support people with disabilities fulfil their own ambitions to enter paid work. That’s also the best way to control the costs of social security within an overall cap on spending, and to make sure there is a system that supports those who need it, including those who may never be able to take up jobs. When the last Labour Government introduced the Work Capability Assessment we wanted it to be part of a system that helped support more disabled people into work. We have always said that a test will always be necessary, but it is abundantly clear that at the moment the WCA is not working. First, the test is not integrated with employment support, which may help explain why the Work Programme is performing so miserably for disabled people, with just five per cent helped into sustained jobs. Second, the test lacks credibility with disabled people, causing anxiety and stress. That is in part because of the third failure – a system that has been riven with poor decision making, causing hardship for disabled people, and huge costs to the public purse. Last year, a staggering 45 per cent of appeals against the test were upheld. So a Labour government would make three crucial changes to the way that the test works. We will start by transforming the way the WCA is designed to make it more effective at helping disabled people into work. With Labour, disabled people would receive a copy of the assessor's report of how their health condition may affect their ability to work, and information about the support that is available in their local area to help them - a first vital step towards a more integrated system of support. Secondly, we would continue to produce an independent review of the WCA, and ask the Office for Disability Issues to support an independent scrutiny group of disabled people to work together with the independent reviewer to assess whether the test is being conducted in a fair and transparent way. We will commit to responding to the recommendations of this report. Finally, a Labour government will go further in ensuring that the assessments get it right first time. We would make sure that in the new system there would be clear penalties for poor performance by assessors, measured both on the number of times decisions are overturned by DWP decision makers, and the number of times they are overturned on appeal. Disabled people have suffered for too long in a system that has too often been unfair, ineffective, and non-transparent. Labour will build a Britain that works for everyday people, save the NHS, and turning decisively away from a Tory government run for the privileged few. If you want to know more about how Labour will change Britain, visit http://www.labour.org.uk/issues. With kind regards, On behalf of the Labour Party Edited by papasmurf, Nov 13 2014, 12:16 PM.
|
|
|
|
| AndyK | Nov 13 2014, 01:14 PM Post #8 |
|
Senior Member
|
If it comes down to personalities, I would not think Merkel is up to the job. |
|
|
|
| RoofGardener | Nov 13 2014, 01:29 PM Post #9 |
Lord of Plantpots
|
I doubt I will ever vote for Labour ever again. Let us not forget that it was a Labour government that went to court in order to prove the point that "A manifesto promise is incapable of giving rise to a legally binding contract with the electorate." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7233175.stm) However, I note one thing. Ed Milliband's approval rating within his party is the lowest since records began. However, despite this, the Conservatives are only polling around 3 points above Labour overall, suggesting that people aren't exactly over-enamoured with THEM either. Lib Dems on 9%, UKIP on 14%, Conservatives 32%, Labour 29%. Looks like UKIP are becoming stronger and stronger ? |
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 13 2014, 01:30 PM Post #10 |
|
Senior Member
|
The propaganda attack is obvious RJD, give how incompetent Cameron, Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith are proving to be, with barely a comment in the media. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 03:09 PM Post #11 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
As I said. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 03:25 PM Post #12 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
But is Milli the only problem Labour has? Would getting rid of him be a generalised solution to all outstanding difficulties? I think not Labour has two fundamental issues to address: (1). what is it for if Public Spending is to be cut further which Milli now admits is the case. Blair inherited an economy where the State cost 40.6% of GDP and at the end of the boom years it was 53.4%. Even in 2007 Labour had increased public spending more than nearly every other OECD country in the previous decade. Public Spending is what binds Labour fractions together. (2). Globalisation and our interdependence has shown that it is now very difficult if not impossible for a debtor country to follow a socialist model. Just look at poor Mr Hollande who has had to ditch his socialist reforms to provide 40b Euros of tax cuts found from 50b Euros of public spending cuts. Me thinks the reason why Milli is quiet is that he does not know what a 2015 Labour Gov. would be for and telling us that he can cut better, smarter and faster than the current lot cuts no mustard with Joe Public, hence he is adrift, but so is the Labour Party possibly en route to oblivion unless it quickly finds a sellable soul. |
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Nov 13 2014, 04:15 PM Post #13 |
|
Deleted User
|
Ed Miliband has my full support to stay as Leader of the Labour Party. He is ideally suited to his role; vacuous, naive, duplicitous, lacking in statesmanship, lacking in charisma and an extensive historical trail of mediocrity. He is major asset for the Conservative Party. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 13 2014, 04:18 PM Post #14 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
 I think the picture captures the moment completely. |
|
|
|
| Affa | Nov 13 2014, 04:29 PM Post #15 |
|
Senior Member
|
 The Black Art Edited by Affa, Nov 13 2014, 04:29 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Lewis | Nov 13 2014, 07:04 PM Post #16 |
Senior Member
|
Couldn't agree more. What until the bye-election in Rochester when the Tory incompetents will lose to UKIP! Then we will see what good all this negative publicity has done them. |
|
|
|
| Pro Veritas | Nov 13 2014, 08:43 PM Post #17 |
|
Upstanding Member
|
Honestly, if the election choice came down to voting for Ed Miliband or Genghis Khan I'd seriously have to consider Genghis Khan - he was at least a very competent statesman. All The Best |
|
|
|
| Tigger | Nov 13 2014, 08:45 PM Post #18 |
|
Senior Member
|
^ One of his five a day! 
|
|
|
|
| Tigger | Nov 13 2014, 08:48 PM Post #19 |
|
Senior Member
|
Same here unfortunately, I cannot recall a time when we had so many insipid and bought and paid for politicians. I'd happily drown the majority of them in a bucket of water. 
|
|
|
|
| Boxter | Nov 13 2014, 08:57 PM Post #20 |
Regular Member
|
Following a successful campaign in the Scottish referendum for a NO vote you would expect any sane pro Union party to capitalise on that sentiment of the Scottish people. However the total opposite happened with the Scottish Labour party. Milliband allowed himself to be manipulated into imposing his London office yes men who immediately ousted the two architects of the victorious NO vote its leader Johann Lamont swiftly followed by the parties deputy Anas Sarwar. This crass act so alienated Scottish Labour voters that they have since flocked to support the SNP instead. As one of the stalwarts of that NO vote Mr Brown is right not to allow his credibility to be tarnished by accepting their poisoned chalice, Milliband has converted 40 pro union Labour MPs into 36 anti Union SNP ones meaning he will be lucky to survive with 4x Labour seats instead of the current 40 post next election. If only that were the end of this sorry tale but its not. It also guarantees that there will now be yet another clamour from a reinvigorated SNP which will break the Union and Scotland will be lost to us and to Milliband for ever! His party are equally pathetic as they cannot even arrange to be rid of him Edited by Boxter, Nov 13 2014, 10:01 PM.
|
|
|
|
| johnofgwent | Nov 13 2014, 10:44 PM Post #21 |
It .. It is GREEN !!
|
I must admit his BBC News appearance fifteen minutes or so ago completely failed to impress. In contrast I feel the piece they launched with, John Major's admission that britain is too small to withstand the current onslaught of EU27 immigrants is the most honest thing i have ever heard the man say. What a difference in the two men though. Major was quite at home at the podium, cool, confident and utterly at ease delivering a message that drove a chainsaw through what he personally strove to build with his advocacy ofthe maastricht treaty while prime minister. Maybe because he has the luxury of being able to stand back and deny responsibility. In stark contrast Milliband seemed uncomfortable, his suit ill fitting, his stance gawkish and awkward, his movements jerky, his face sweaty. His jawline and the asymmetric way he spoke, and his jerky movements as he did, reminded me of the methamphetamine addicts you can find hanging out in the pubs sports bars and constitutional clubs of the welsh valleys any day of the week. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 14 2014, 12:13 PM Post #22 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
Certainly better batting average than none right in a lifetime. Well done Tig. for smart arse vacuous comments you are at the top of the Leader Board. Best you stick to what you know whatever that is and leave debate to the grown ups. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 14 2014, 12:17 PM Post #23 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
Best listen to him on the Radio, you will miss the body language difficulties and be able to focus on the absolute emptiness of his schoolboy rhetoric. If this is really the best of Labour then I am afraid they are a lost cause. I am sure that Cooper woman would do a much better job of it. |
|
|
|
| Tigger | Nov 14 2014, 01:04 PM Post #24 |
|
Senior Member
|
^ Carrying on with the cricket analogies that one appears to be out, hit wicket! I could not thing of anything cricket related that was similar to rank hypocrisy. |
|
|
|
| Affa | Nov 14 2014, 03:07 PM Post #25 |
|
Senior Member
|
The most telling thing, for me, is that if after seeing himself on TV (repeat) if he still does not recognise how ineffectual and unconvincing he is, and does not resign, then the Party itself needs bombing. Someone should have a word with Ed, his mother perhaps, and gently inform him "I love you, but nobody else will". 
Edited by Affa, Nov 14 2014, 03:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Lewis | Nov 15 2014, 08:27 AM Post #26 |
|
Senior Member
|
More pro Tory propaganda. Mind you Scameron's ratings aren't much better. |
|
|
|
| johnofgwent | Nov 15 2014, 09:59 AM Post #27 |
|
It .. It is GREEN !!
|
Well I suppose given your politiical leanings I can hardly expect you to say anything else. But I'm no tory and I agree with it entirely. As I said, the BBC News a few days ago now ran two pieces one almost directly after another, the first was John Major having to stand up and admit that the bright shiny dream he fought for and painted with lights and baubles is now so rotten and stinking of shit that even HE had had to admit he can smell it, the next was Ed Milliband, and do you know what I cannot now remember what the hell he was standing up to say his delivery was that bad. But it isn't just the messenger. As I have tried to say repeatedly for a very long time, I detest the way britain has become a place where image and delivery is everything, but the fact is Ed is so acutely gawky, sweaty and uncomfortable in front of the cameras he simply fails to portray himself as a man of conviction, he simply does not come over to me a a man who believes in the message he is delivering, and the fact much of what he has said is the very opposite of what he said and did last time he was in charge does not help his cause. |
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 10:01 AM Post #28 |
|
Senior Member
|
Cameron has exactly the same problem. |
|
|
|
| somersetli | Nov 15 2014, 10:23 AM Post #29 |
somersetli
|
Though this thread is about Milliband, the problem is about the whole Labour Party. Let's face the truth..........currently this Labour Party is NOT fit to govern the country, and I believe that it will take at least another two terms out of office before people should even consider putting them back in charge. Edited by somersetli, Nov 15 2014, 10:23 AM.
|
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 10:29 AM Post #30 |
|
Senior Member
|
Neither is the current government. |
|
|
|
| johnofgwent | Nov 15 2014, 10:34 AM Post #31 |
|
It .. It is GREEN !!
|
eh ? what ? I don't see that at all ? Milliband cannot open his mouth on immigration without having to admit his fervour for following the party line in the opposite direction to that he says he now wishes to take having learned from past mistakes ... Milliband cannot open his mouth on green taxes without having to admit as energy secretary he enthusiastically implemented the very measures he now says were wrong. Those are just the first two I can think of. I cannot be arsed to fill the post with any more. In stark contrast I would say Cameron's problem is that he is still saying and doing what he has been doing, and he has the excuse that where he wants you to believe does not like what he did, he can blame clegg for twisting his arm ... While both men are not worthy of trust and even less entitled to respect, I don't see their positions as being the same at all. Edited by johnofgwent, Nov 15 2014, 10:34 AM.
|
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 10:53 AM Post #32 |
|
Senior Member
|
Suggested reading:- http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/camerons-pre-election-contract-a-catalogue-of-lies/ |
|
|
|
| somersetli | Nov 15 2014, 10:57 AM Post #33 |
|
somersetli
|
Possibly, but this thread is about Milliband. |
|
|
|
| papasmurf | Nov 15 2014, 11:01 AM Post #34 |
|
Senior Member
|
Comparisons are necessary. |
|
|
|
| Steve K | Nov 15 2014, 12:38 PM Post #35 |
Once and future cynic
|
Well said I would so like to vote Labour next May but I cannot vote for that idiot with his unconvincing regurgitation of cliches and total inability to challenge the dafter fringes that every party has. |
|
|
|
| somersetli | Nov 15 2014, 01:17 PM Post #36 |
|
somersetli
|
Maybe the party would like to be rid of him, but it's a bit too close to the GE for that sort of upheaval. I guess that they know he is a dud and a vote loser, but are hoping that UKIP will do well letting Labour in by default. Should that happen I do not think Milliband would survive as Leader for too long. |
|
|
|
| marybrown | Nov 15 2014, 01:38 PM Post #37 |
|
Senior Member
|
Is there anyone in the Labour party who could take his place?? I can't get David peeping round the curtains out of my mind??? |
|
|
|
| Affa | Nov 15 2014, 02:48 PM Post #38 |
|
Senior Member
|
A coronation is on the cards ......... the timing of it critical. Too soon and a challenge can be made (already too late for that imo), too late and there is no opportunity to convince the public of the worth of it. I estimate that the timing (and person) will be done to restrict the opportunity for the others to do the usual dirty tricks assassination. Weeks away, no more than two months. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 03:52 PM Post #39 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
But they are. Lewis you appear to be totally out of touch with reality. Just check on the appro ratings of the two Posh Boys compared with the two Eds. |
|
|
|
| RJD | Nov 15 2014, 03:55 PM Post #40 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
|
I think that there must be at least a few dozen who could do a better job. What about Ms Cooper or the loud mouth from Liverpool or Chukka for starters. Ed Balls would be an improvement, but a retrograde step. Problem is that unless he goes before Christmas then Labour are stuck with him for the GE. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
 ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
12:37 AM Jul 14