Quote:

 

EXCLUSIVE: Labour attempt to outflank Tories and Ukip on immigration
Rachel Reeves vows to curb access to out-of-work benefits for two years
Also wants to end the ‘absurdity’ of child benefit being exported to the EU
Could limit access to tax credits used by employees to top-up low wages
But agreement would be needed across the EU raising doubts about plan
Tories say: 'Nobody will believe what Labour say on immigration or welfare'

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 03:11 PM

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 02:28 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 08:45 AM

gansao

Nov 23 2014, 05:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Can't remember which country he came from but it was one of the later countries to gain EU membership.

The thinking behind my comment that English is a widely spoken language is that it is one of the reasons why so many migrants head for the UK. I can't see many EU migrants heading for the UK who have no understanding of English at all.

Then you wrong. I find few speak passable English at first. Most learn enough to get by. Baltic state immigrants tend to speak Russian as well as their own languages but little English. The Poles occasionally speak passable English and some very good.
So far the Romanians seem speak little or no English. As said I have worked with or around hundreds of EU immigrants over the past few years.
Of course everywhere else in the UK they might speak English like Noel Coward ( as I suspect your will claim) but I doubt it.
Also I have spoken to a few Lithuanians who told me that the Germans will generally not the East Europeans who do not speak passable German.

If that is your experience then so be it. But goodness knows where the immigrants you have worked with actually worked or what they did. Heading for a foreign country with virtually no understanding of the language makes little sense to me and it must certainly limit work possibilities for those that do it.

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 04:31 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 03:11 PM

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 02:28 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 08:45 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Then you wrong. I find few speak passable English at first. Most learn enough to get by. Baltic state immigrants tend to speak Russian as well as their own languages but little English. The Poles occasionally speak passable English and some very good.
So far the Romanians seem speak little or no English. As said I have worked with or around hundreds of EU immigrants over the past few years.
Of course everywhere else in the UK they might speak English like Noel Coward ( as I suspect your will claim) but I doubt it.
Also I have spoken to a few Lithuanians who told me that the Germans will generally not the East Europeans who do not speak passable German.

If that is your experience then so be it. But goodness knows where the immigrants you have worked with actually worked or what they did. Heading for a foreign country with virtually no understanding of the language makes little sense to me and it must certainly limit work possibilities for those that do it.

We just have to not want them anymore. The agencies bully them too.

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:45 PM

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 04:31 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 03:11 PM

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 02:28 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

If that is your experience then so be it. But goodness knows where the immigrants you have worked with actually worked or what they did. Heading for a foreign country with virtually no understanding of the language makes little sense to me and it must certainly limit work possibilities for those that do it.

We just have to not want them anymore. The agencies bully them too.

I'm glad..may not make Britain seem such a good deal..

Maybe they will bugger off somewhere else!

Major Sinic

Nov 25 2014, 11:12 AM

In my experience a high proportion of the better educated Scandinavians and North Europeans speak very good English, in particular Norwegians, Danes and Dutch. This has little to do with England per se and more to do with the English language being the commercial language of the world, due in great part to Britains prior colonialism and the influence of the USA.

I remember many years ago being in Oslo on business and caught a bus which I subsequently feared was going in the wrong direction. I turned to the middle aged lady behind me and asked if she spoke English. With a degree of surprise nin her voice she responded 'Of course!' In our ensuing brief conversation I realised she spoke it rather better than some British people I had come across.

Sadly fluent English does not yet seem to be an immigration criteria although of course it should be.

Heinrich

Nov 25 2014, 11:17 AM

Major Sinic

Nov 25 2014, 11:12 AM

In my experience a high proportion of the better educated Scandinavians and North Europeans speak very good English, in particular Norwegians, Danes and Dutch. This has little to do with England per se and more to do with the English language being the commercial language of the world, due in great part to Britains prior colonialism and the influence of the USA.

I remember many years ago being in Oslo on business and caught a bus which I subsequently feared was going in the wrong direction. I turned to the middle aged lady behind me and asked if she spoke English. With a degree of surprise nin her voice she responded 'Of course!' In our ensuing brief conversation I realised she spoke it rather better than some British people I had come across.

Sadly fluent English does not yet seem to be an immigration criteria although of course it should be.

No EU citizen is required to speak Danish in order to migrate to Denmark. Such a requirement would be as illegal as Arizona requiring a US citizen to speak English to live in Phoenix.

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:21 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 04:11 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 03:21 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 03:13 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

That must have been when they were throwing money at people to stay at home!!

It was about limiting non-EU migrants to those with skills or professions needed by the UK.

Strangely enough I was listening to an engineering firm moaning about the lack of candidates for jobs here..they said as soon as foreign students have finished their degree..they have to go home..

Major Sinic

Nov 26 2014, 03:25 PM

Heinrich

Nov 25 2014, 11:17 AM

Major Sinic

Nov 25 2014, 11:12 AM

In my experience a high proportion of the better educated Scandinavians and North Europeans speak very good English, in particular Norwegians, Danes and Dutch. This has little to do with England per se and more to do with the English language being the commercial language of the world, due in great part to Britains prior colonialism and the influence of the USA.

I remember many years ago being in Oslo on business and caught a bus which I subsequently feared was going in the wrong direction. I turned to the middle aged lady behind me and asked if she spoke English. With a degree of surprise nin her voice she responded 'Of course!' In our ensuing brief conversation I realised she spoke it rather better than some British people I had come across.

Sadly fluent English does not yet seem to be an immigration criteria although of course it should be.

No EU citizen is required to speak Danish in order to migrate to Denmark. Such a requirement would be as illegal as Arizona requiring a US citizen to speak English to live in Phoenix.

Many things which were once illegal have with changing circumstances and perceptions become legal.

Fluent English should be a legal requirement for any immigrant coming here to the UK to live and work. Equally every child attending a non-fee paying state school should expect to be taught in English as a first language, any public sector interviews or notifications should be in English and the necessity for any translation or translator should be paid for by the individual requiring this service. In cases where the individual is unable to pay the government of their country of origin should be required to undertake to pay. There is no justification for the British taxpayer being required to pay for such support for immigrants.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:37 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:21 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 04:11 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 03:21 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

It was about limiting non-EU migrants to those with skills or professions needed by the UK.

Strangely enough I was listening to an engineering firm moaning about the lack of candidates for jobs here..they said as soon as foreign students have finished their degree..they have to go home..

The problem is that locals have for years been opting for soft subjects and most science and technology university courses have been sustained by foreign students. This is particularly difficult for Universities that undertake research as they cannot find sufficient locals to take on a PhD. The has been a shortage of skilled technologists throughout the recent recession and as we have seen these people have managed, because of demand, to keep wages in line or above inflation. Educated, skilled workers and capital are doing well in the 21st C., the major problem we have is the massive surfeit of poorly educated and unskilled labour right across the Planet. Politicians have been aware of this impending problem for a decade or more, but have no solutions on offer. Increasing productivity rates further will only make the plight of the unskilled even harder.
Best make sure that your nearest and dearest invest all efforts into obtaining a good education and skills as the situation will get worse not better. Not only that the situation is compounded by global competition which is pressing down on profit margins which eventually moderate wages and tax revenues. Unfortunately for us Brown pumped up the size of the State, hence it's cost and ongoing liabilities at exactly the wrong time. Had he just been prudent.

One of the things required for improving education is a belief in the future by those being educated. Through no fault of their own, too many families have never had that belief.

You can use your hindsight to condemn Brown, but he was caught in the right-wing trap of Deregulation, Financial Services, Free Market Economy, that made helping the families at the bottom of the economic pile a necessity.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:37 PM

Unfortunately for us Brown pumped up the size of the State, hence it's cost and ongoing liabilities at exactly the wrong time. Had he just been prudent.

C-too

Nov 26 2014, 05:07 PM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:37 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:21 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 04:11 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Strangely enough I was listening to an engineering firm moaning about the lack of candidates for jobs here..they said as soon as foreign students have finished their degree..they have to go home..

The problem is that locals have for years been opting for soft subjects and most science and technology university courses have been sustained by foreign students. This is particularly difficult for Universities that undertake research as they cannot find sufficient locals to take on a PhD. The has been a shortage of skilled technologists throughout the recent recession and as we have seen these people have managed, because of demand, to keep wages in line or above inflation. Educated, skilled workers and capital are doing well in the 21st C., the major problem we have is the massive surfeit of poorly educated and unskilled labour right across the Planet. Politicians have been aware of this impending problem for a decade or more, but have no solutions on offer. Increasing productivity rates further will only make the plight of the unskilled even harder.
Best make sure that your nearest and dearest invest all efforts into obtaining a good education and skills as the situation will get worse not better. Not only that the situation is compounded by global competition which is pressing down on profit margins which eventually moderate wages and tax revenues. Unfortunately for us Brown pumped up the size of the State, hence it's cost and ongoing liabilities at exactly the wrong time. Had he just been prudent.

One of the things required for improving education is a belief in the future by those being educated. Through no fault of their own, too many families have never had that belief.

You can use your hindsight to condemn Brown, but he was caught in the right-wing trap of Deregulation, Financial Services, Free Market Economy, that made helping the families at the bottom of the economic pile a necessity.

Firstly, skilled men in this country have never been appreciated. I worked as a skilled man for 30 years, I have travelled England Scotland and Wales as a service engineer for a number of years. I think probably because I was based in the North West I never received a wage that would allow me to have anything like a reasonable standard of living. It was only when I retrained into a professional position and enjoyed a good salary plus excellent working conditions that I began to feel appreciated by the system.

One of the things required for improving education is a belief in the future by those being educated. Through no fault of their own, too many families have never had that belief.

You can use your hindsight to condemn Brown, but he was caught in the right-wing trap of Deregulation, Financial Services, Free Market Economy, that made helping the families at the bottom of the economic pile a necessity.

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 09:05 AM

It is very easy to blame Politicians for one not meeting ones expectations. I have known many skilled people over the decades rise up and take commanding positions. I noted that most of UK industry, post 1979, appeared to be under the control of Working Class Grammar school boys done good. I was born into the poverty of the Working Classes and never ever experienced a class barrier placed to stop career progression. Most of these so called impedimenta are in the minds of those looking for excuses, someone else to blame. The gamble in life cannot be removed by Politicians and it is best that individuals recognise that they, with some effort and determination, can fashion their futures. A life fashioned by Politicians from cradle to grave is abhorrent, is the dream of latter day Marxists and will not come to pass. Best be pragmatic.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:48 PM

Best let Brown make his own excuses he is a big boy Politician and does not require self appointed white-washers of the truth.

Brown was beyond his level of competence, it showed and we are now paying a huge price. It did not need to be such.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:48 PM

Best let Brown make his own excuses he is a big boy Politician and does not require self appointed white-washers of the truth.

Brown was beyond his level of competence, it showed and we are now paying a huge price. It did not need to be such.

Major Sinic

Nov 26 2014, 06:20 PM

C-too

Nov 26 2014, 05:07 PM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:37 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:21 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

The problem is that locals have for years been opting for soft subjects and most science and technology university courses have been sustained by foreign students. This is particularly difficult for Universities that undertake research as they cannot find sufficient locals to take on a PhD. The has been a shortage of skilled technologists throughout the recent recession and as we have seen these people have managed, because of demand, to keep wages in line or above inflation. Educated, skilled workers and capital are doing well in the 21st C., the major problem we have is the massive surfeit of poorly educated and unskilled labour right across the Planet. Politicians have been aware of this impending problem for a decade or more, but have no solutions on offer. Increasing productivity rates further will only make the plight of the unskilled even harder.
Best make sure that your nearest and dearest invest all efforts into obtaining a good education and skills as the situation will get worse not better. Not only that the situation is compounded by global competition which is pressing down on profit margins which eventually moderate wages and tax revenues. Unfortunately for us Brown pumped up the size of the State, hence it's cost and ongoing liabilities at exactly the wrong time. Had he just been prudent.

One of the things required for improving education is a belief in the future by those being educated. Through no fault of their own, too many families have never had that belief.

You can use your hindsight to condemn Brown, but he was caught in the right-wing trap of Deregulation, Financial Services, Free Market Economy, that made helping the families at the bottom of the economic pile a necessity.

Firstly, skilled men in this country have never been appreciated. I worked as a skilled man for 30 years, I have travelled England Scotland and Wales as a service engineer for a number of years. I think probably because I was based in the North West I never received a wage that would allow me to have anything like a reasonable standard of living. It was only when I retrained into a professional position and enjoyed a good salary plus excellent working conditions that I began to feel appreciated by the system.

One of the things required for improving education is a belief in the future by those being educated. Through no fault of their own, too many families have never had that belief.

You can use your hindsight to condemn Brown, but he was caught in the right-wing trap of Deregulation, Financial Services, Free Market Economy, that made helping the families at the bottom of the economic pile a necessity.

He had thirteen years as either Chancellor or Prime Minister in a Labour government, which throughout this period had a substantial majority, in which to do something about any 'right wing trap' whether imagined or real. That he failed to do so is illustration enough of his woeful shortcomings.

Do others smell a whiff of hypocrisy from posts such as this from C-too with regard to his routine whinging about the failures of the present government, who have had a mere four and a half years to undo all the damage they inherited, not the thirteen years available to Labour? I certainly do!

disgruntled porker

Nov 27 2014, 10:16 AM

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 09:05 AM

It is very easy to blame Politicians for one not meeting ones expectations. I have known many skilled people over the decades rise up and take commanding positions. I noted that most of UK industry, post 1979, appeared to be under the control of Working Class Grammar school boys done good. I was born into the poverty of the Working Classes and never ever experienced a class barrier placed to stop career progression. Most of these so called impedimenta are in the minds of those looking for excuses, someone else to blame. The gamble in life cannot be removed by Politicians and it is best that individuals recognise that they, with some effort and determination, can fashion their futures. A life fashioned by Politicians from cradle to grave is abhorrent, is the dream of latter day Marxists and will not come to pass. Best be pragmatic.

Much of that is true ReJ. I'm not so sure about the concept of being born into poverty because you are working class though. Mind you, much of the arguement revolves around what the individual perceives as "working class".

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 11:07 AM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:48 PM

Best let Brown make his own excuses he is a big boy Politician and does not require self appointed white-washers of the truth.

Brown was beyond his level of competence, it showed and we are now paying a huge price. It did not need to be such.

Meanwhile it's OK if he takes undeserved abuse by politically biased people like yourself. !nono!

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 04:38 PM

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 11:07 AM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:48 PM

Best let Brown make his own excuses he is a big boy Politician and does not require self appointed white-washers of the truth.

Brown was beyond his level of competence, it showed and we are now paying a huge price. It did not need to be such.

Meanwhile it's OK if he takes undeserved abuse by politically biased people like yourself. !nono!

Me biased? I thought that was your position.

Nonsense

Nov 27 2014, 09:44 PM

'Old' Labour is dead,'New' Labour is dead.

The old saying was that,"LABOUR is a crusade, or it's NOTHING", it is now 'NOTHING'.

It ABANDONED, then BETRAYED the 'working class' of this country,NOTHING that it will ever say,can ever be taken as gospel.

The FACT is, 'rhetoric' is not 'policy', no 'coherent' policy will be put before the people at the election next year, by ANY political party.

Countless LIES\MYTHS have been ramme own the gullible throats of the electorate by politicians of ALL parties regarding immigration.

What is NEVER stated, are the FACTS, for instance,"migration has been economically beneficial for this country",or,"Migrants come here primarily to WORK-NOT claim BENEFITS"

Where are the FACTS to back up the above assertions & from what SOURCES have any FACTS ever been produced as EVIDENCE to back up the OPINIONS of those who say that the above are 'true'?


If migrants 'only' come here to 'work'-NOT claim Benefits,then, there should be no reason to object by any political party or individual,if our government STOPPED paying Benefits to ALL immigrants,whether IN work or OUT of work.

That includes the employers job subsidy AKA as 'Tax Credits', Housing Benefit,Council Tax Benefit, Disability Benefits et'c.
After all, they do come here to 'work' NOT claim BENEFITS, right?

pladecalvo

Nov 28 2014, 01:05 PM

Now the Tories jump on the bandwagon. Immigrants will not get some benefits for four years and if they don't a job within 6 months, 'Johnny Foreigner' gets sent back from whence he came. Call me an old cynic Mr Cameron but this wouldn't have anything to do with the success of UKIP would it??

Heinrich

Nov 28 2014, 01:17 PM

How can ordinary English people believe such nonsense?

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 01:48 PM

yes it's just a load of meaningless drivel. Mind you it will give the chattering classes something to chatter about.

Alberich

Nov 28 2014, 02:01 PM

The problem, Smurfy , is that you simply haven't grasped the really pressing issue.

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 04:55 PM

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 04:38 PM

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 11:07 AM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:48 PM

Best let Brown make his own excuses he is a big boy Politician and does not require self appointed white-washers of the truth.

Brown was beyond his level of competence, it showed and we are now paying a huge price. It did not need to be such.

Meanwhile it's OK if he takes undeserved abuse by politically biased people like yourself. !nono!

Me biased? I thought that was your position.

That's a bit of psychological projection on your part.

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 03:52 PM

I think not C2 as I have evidence and history on my side. You only appear to have a tub of white-wash and a masonry brush.

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 03:52 PM

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 04:55 PM

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 04:38 PM

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 11:07 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Me biased? I thought that was your position.

That's a bit of psychological projection on your part.

I think not C2 as I have evidence and history on my side. You only appear to have a tub of white-wash and a masonry brush.

pladecalvo

Nov 28 2014, 04:00 PM

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 03:52 PM

I think not C2 as I have evidence and history on my side. You only appear to have a tub of white-wash and a masonry brush.

Aaaahahahaha!! Good one!

C-too

Nov 28 2014, 06:29 PM

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 03:52 PM

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 04:55 PM

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 04:38 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

That's a bit of psychological projection on your part.

I think not C2 as I have evidence and history on my side. You only appear to have a tub of white-wash and a masonry brush.

You must know you are biased, unless you really are as dim as the posts you put up.

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 04:48 PM

marybrown

Nov 24 2014, 04:45 PM

gansao

Nov 24 2014, 04:31 PM

C-too

Nov 24 2014, 03:11 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

We just have to not want them anymore. The agencies bully them too.

I'm glad..may not make Britain seem such a good deal..

Maybe they will bugger off somewhere else!

The agencies ( in my experience) are run by East Europeans.