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| A bad day for Conservatism. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 20 2014, 08:27 PM (1,329 Views) | |
| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 08:27 PM Post #1 |
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Senior Member
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The imminent humiliation of the by election, the sordid attempt to protect bankers bonuses blocked on all counts by the EU and Lord Ashcroft laying into Cameron! All in all it's cheered me up no end today! |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 20 2014, 08:41 PM Post #2 |
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Upstanding Member
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I think that some of the criticisms the Tories had about the Bankers' Bonus cap are valid. Specifically that is bonuses are capped at a multiple of base salary, then the easiest way to maintain the same overall level of pay is to increase base salary. It is much harder to claw-back base salary than bonuses; so a measure designed to punish reckless risk taking actually does the opposite - it encourages it by making it harder to financially punish those involved. All The Best |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 08:46 PM Post #3 |
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Senior Member
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One of the proposals involved clawing back money years after wrong doing was unearthed, no hiding place for dodgy bankers, bonus or no bonus....... They'd hate that. |
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| Affa | Nov 20 2014, 09:04 PM Post #4 |
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Senior Member
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In today's Business (and Political) climate, wearing gloves, leaving no finger prints, having scapegoats is the norm. When you introduce accountability, the first step they make is to side-step being made accountable. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 20 2014, 09:07 PM Post #5 |
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Upstanding Member
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But it is a legal minefield trying to clawback base-salary. It is far, far, far easier to clawback bonuses which are performance related, which makes ascertaining eligibility for bonuses easier. I'm all for hitting the bankers where it hurts when they deserve it. But the processes we have to do that must, above all else, actually work. A clawback on base salary will never work, EU employment laws will prevent it. All The Best |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 09:11 PM Post #6 |
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Senior Member
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I would not dismiss it simply because it has the letters "EU" attached to it, at least they are trying to rein in excess unlike our bought and paid for government that is hell bent on protecting financial crooks from the consequences of their actions. |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 09:12 PM Post #7 |
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Senior Member
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Absolutely! 
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 20 2014, 09:25 PM Post #8 |
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Upstanding Member
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Except they aren't. The measures they are proposing are more likely to see an increase in excessive risk taking in the FSS. And it seems to me this is quite typical of the Eu; start off with good intentions and then fuck it up by putting in place idiot policies that do the opposite of what was intended. All The Best |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 09:40 PM Post #9 |
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Senior Member
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Can you substantiate this opinion in any meaningful way? The fact that our government mounted a legal challenge to the proposals should be the biggest clue to what is going on here, by trying to opt out or water down the regulations we can ensure that even more reckless crooks in suits take up residence here, I don't want that do you? |
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| Rich | Nov 20 2014, 10:08 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Member
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It is my opinion that bankers will never suffer as all penalties and fines will nefariously filter down to the public who are in this day and age forced to use banks, oh for the day when hard cash was in a paypacket and you could sling it under the kitchen table so that when the wife bent down to pick it up you were in. 
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| papasmurf | Nov 20 2014, 10:18 PM Post #11 |
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Senior Member
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30139455 20 November 2014 Last updated at 19:57 In a surprise move, the UK government has withdrawn its legal challenge to EU legislation that caps the level of bankers' bonuses. Chancellor George Osborne said he had recognised the challenge was "now unlikely to succeed". The move comes after an adviser to the European Court of Justice rejected the UK's legal arguments against the plan. The cap restricts bonuses to 100% of banker's pay or 200% with shareholder approval. |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 10:28 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Member
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Probably wise from the political point of view, the sight of the Conservative party fighting tooth and nail to protect bankers pay packets would not sit well in we are all in it together and zero hours Britain. |
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| AndyK | Nov 20 2014, 10:30 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Member
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So the EU can now control how much we get paid. What could possibly go wrong? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 20 2014, 10:31 PM Post #14 |
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Senior Member
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What "we" get paid? Are you a banker? |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2014, 10:32 PM Post #15 |
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Senior Member
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A lot. But at least there will be some laws to go after them, unlike last time. |
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| AndyK | Nov 20 2014, 10:32 PM Post #16 |
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Senior Member
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No, is that relevant? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 20 2014, 10:35 PM Post #17 |
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Senior Member
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The EU is not controlling what we get paid. |
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| AndyK | Nov 20 2014, 10:36 PM Post #18 |
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Senior Member
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Did you not read your own post ? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 20 2014, 10:41 PM Post #19 |
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Senior Member
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Yes. |
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| RJD | Nov 21 2014, 08:36 AM Post #20 |
Prudence and Thrift
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Nothing new here, 30 years ago my bonus was in company shares that I could not sell for at least three years, some were 5 years and also dependent on other factors. The Envy Brigade are only creating a different problem and that is that Bankers fixed emoluments are now increasing and these cannot be clawed back. The left always through their shallowness of thought seek to solve a problem, a problem for them, then create even more. The EU are only out to punish London for having the temerity of dominating the global financial markets and are totally disinterested in the fact that they are shooting themselves in the foot. The ignoramuses on the left who think that all of a sudden there are going to be alternative jobs and tax revenues produced via manufacturing are in for a shock, but they do not really care about other people's jobs. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 21 2014, 08:39 AM Post #21 |
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Senior Member
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Give it a rest RJD, I am far more interested in when some of the bankers in Britain who have been and in some cases still are engaged in criminal activity which has cost the population dear are going to be jailed. |
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| AndyK | Nov 21 2014, 09:40 AM Post #22 |
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Senior Member
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I'm no friend of bankers but I do find it disturbing that a foreign entity can enforce what a private person earns in a private company in the UK. |
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| Heinrich | Nov 21 2014, 09:47 AM Post #23 |
Regular Guy
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What is private about banking in the UK? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 21 2014, 09:50 AM Post #24 |
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Senior Member
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Confusing terminology private means public sector, and public means government. |
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| Affa | Nov 21 2014, 11:39 AM Post #25 |
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Senior Member
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The EU has not capped wages, and the idea that they have is BS. There cannot be honest debate when the majority of time is spent answering propaganda generated BS. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 21 2014, 11:41 AM Post #26 |
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Senior Member
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Precisely. |
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| Tigger | Nov 21 2014, 11:58 AM Post #27 |
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Senior Member
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Hardly, most on the continent have a far cleared idea of why we ended up in such a financial clusterfuck, and it had nothing to do with immigrants, the working poor or the less able and everything to do with white upper middle class men in suits playing roulette with other peoples money............ And it's about time we had some house rules with some bite. Edited by Tigger, Nov 21 2014, 12:00 PM.
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| RJD | Nov 21 2014, 12:01 PM Post #28 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Who said they had? They have capped bonuses and the consequence of this has been to raise the said Banker's fixed element of income. Sort of counterproductive really as these people will still be well paid, but the Banks will have less opportunity to claw back and as a consequence we the customers will end up paying. Not only that with their objective to punish and hide the culpability of Politicians, they will probably push a lot of this business out of Europe. Still why should they care? |
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| AndyK | Nov 21 2014, 12:08 PM Post #29 |
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Senior Member
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That's not the point as I see it. The point is that it is private enterprise and if they want to pay their employees in bonuses, krugerrands or bananas then it is nothing to do with anyone other than the shareholders. |
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| Tigger | Nov 21 2014, 12:15 PM Post #30 |
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Senior Member
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But not if they come looking for a handout from me and you if they get it horribly wrong. Let them do what they want within reason and ensure that those who allow bankers and traders to play fast and loose with capital pay for the mistakes personally, and that includes shareholders and institutional investors. Lets see them operate without a safety net and watch the risk reigned in....... |
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| AndyK | Nov 21 2014, 12:21 PM Post #31 |
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That's a different argument. As it stands at the moment, they are quite within their rights to run their businesses into the ground and its our lookout for bailing them out. |
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| RJD | Nov 21 2014, 12:26 PM Post #32 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Not private though is it? Banks are underwritten not just by Shareholders but also by Taxpayers. I would have let Northern Wreck go into Administration, rescuing it was a mistake, and would like to achieve a situation whereby I could think the same for any failed Bank. Unfortunately Politicians have forgotten their responsibility to regulate in order to protect Joe Public and none were worse at this than the last lot. |
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| Steve K | Nov 21 2014, 12:28 PM Post #33 |
Once and future cynic
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That was my first instinct but actually it's not so strange as in effect it would be a one state subsidy in a free trading block if we were allowed to continue. And that's not free trade. The high level of bonuses encouraged high risk taking, risks the banks would not be able to take without the last resort guarantee the state gives to regular customer accounts. |
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| papasmurf | Nov 21 2014, 12:29 PM Post #34 |
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Senior Member
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SOME banks are. |
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| RJD | Nov 21 2014, 12:30 PM Post #35 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Some banks are ------ ? |
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| papasmurf | Nov 21 2014, 12:38 PM Post #36 |
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Senior Member
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It is clear enough RJD. PRIVATE bank accounts are "insured" up to a point by government. Business accounts are not. |
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| RJD | Nov 21 2014, 01:05 PM Post #37 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I think you will find that the £80,000 of cover is not out of Taxpayers purse. So it was not clear. |
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| Boxter | Nov 21 2014, 02:48 PM Post #38 |
Regular Member
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My my all this banker corruption and not even one of them sees the inside of a jail house and the EU establishment pats them on the head and says good job lads. Osbourne squanders our taxes in a futile court attempt to pretend he was actually going to cap their excesses. He would have s**t a brick if he had somehow won the case! Ohh well now he has other mega problems like organising £5.4 Billion extra borrowing on taxpayers backs to hand over to Mr Junckers which will wind up as yet another "RESULT FOR BRITAIN" no doubt and Junckers an exposed tax crook himself |
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| Heinrich | Nov 21 2014, 03:12 PM Post #39 |
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Regular Guy
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The English Government promotes casino banking as a vampire industry from the City of London and the banking spivs enjoy the favor of the Liberal Democrat supported Tory Government.
Edited by Heinrich, Nov 21 2014, 03:12 PM.
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| Tigger | Nov 21 2014, 04:40 PM Post #40 |
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Senior Member
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What are you on about now?  I can only assume you have been cohabiting under the same stone as RJD these last few years, the point is if they run their banks into the ground it effects and damages the whole economy, the damage is not localised, is it really to much to ask that they be properly regulated and are personally liable for any criminal activity they commit? Clawing back ill gotten gains should be the bare minimum. |
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