Honey Pot Britain

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Honey Pot Britain
Topic Started: Nov 25 2014, 09:00 AM (1,493 Views)
RJD	Nov 25 2014, 09:00 AM Post #1
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Quote: The Open Europe figures show that in Spain, the average weekly take-home pay after tax for a single parent with two children is £362; in Poland it is £269 and in Bulgaria £149. In Britain, a worker on the minimum wage would earn £196, but that is increased by tax credits and other benefits to £527. It means workers moving to the UK from Spain see their earnings go up 45 per cent, from Poland by 95 per cent and from Bulgaria by a staggering 253 per cent. DM Honey Pot Britain was designed in from Day One. This Gov. has cut inward migration from none EU countries to the levels of 1997 and will get them down further, but from the EU-8 they are stubbornly high and rising. Why? Bloody obvious in it, it's the in work Tax Credits. Only by blocking access for a period, 1 or 2 years say, for new arrivals will we inhibit them from coming here or we can just get rid of them for everyone, see wages rise and numbers of jobs decline. You choose.



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 09:04 AM Post #2
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	What you miss out RJD is the very much higher cost of living in Britain. Unfortunately most immigrants don't find that out until after they arrive here. If they were informed beforehand I suspect most would not bother coming here at all.



RJD	Nov 25 2014, 09:07 AM Post #3
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 09:04 AM What you miss out RJD is the very much higher cost of living in Britain. Unfortunately most immigrants don't find that out until after they arrive here. If they were informed beforehand I suspect most would not bother coming here at all. Best check on the higher cost of living that is pertinent to them. This is not the same as the RPI etc. it is highly personalised and most know the ropes before they climb onto a bus.



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 09:17 AM Post #4
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:07 AM Best check on the higher cost of living that is pertinent to them. That is exactly what I was commenting about RJD. Housing being the biggest shock to them after they arrive, plus the cost of food, fuel, utilities, and so on more than wipe out any income differential.



RJD	Nov 25 2014, 09:40 AM Post #5
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 09:17 AM RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:07 AM Best check on the higher cost of living that is pertinent to them. That is exactly what I was commenting about RJD. Housing being the biggest shock to them after they arrive, plus the cost of food, fuel, utilities, and so on more than wipe out any income differential. Then you are not aware of the conditions pertaining to such workers. In the main they are not buying houses, they are sharing the cost of rent, heat, transport, do tend to establish themselves in a group and are not coming to the UK to establish long term roots. For them the UK is a Honey Pot a short term one.



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 09:44 AM Post #6
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:40 AM Then you are not aware of the conditions pertaining to such workers. In the main they are not buying houses, they are sharing the cost of rent, heat, transport, do tend to establish themselves in a group and are not coming to the UK to establish long term roots. For them the UK is a Honey Pot a short term one. Any evidence for the "short term," RJD? The only reason they are forty to a house is the high rents.



RJD	Nov 25 2014, 09:48 AM Post #7
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 09:44 AM RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:40 AM Then you are not aware of the conditions pertaining to such workers. In the main they are not buying houses, they are sharing the cost of rent, heat, transport, do tend to establish themselves in a group and are not coming to the UK to establish long term roots. For them the UK is a Honey Pot a short term one. Any evidence for the "short term," RJD? The only reason they are forty to a house is the high rents. Yes there is plenty in the Public Domain. Here short term means ~5 years.



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 09:50 AM Post #8
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:48 AM Yes there is plenty in the Public Domain. Well link to it then RJD.



RJD	Nov 25 2014, 09:52 AM Post #9
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 09:50 AM RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:48 AM Yes there is plenty in the Public Domain. Well link to it then RJD. No time, the Sun is shining so I am off into my garden. You have plenty of time on your hands so why not for once do a bit of useful research.



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 09:54 AM Post #10
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	RJD Nov 25 2014, 09:52 AM ]No time, the Sun is shining so I am off into my garden. You have plenty of time on your hands so why not for once do a bit of useful research. Nonsense, you can't provide a link to back up your contention because no data exists and won't exist until next year.



Heinrich	Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM Post #11
Regular Guy Posts: 2,920 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: Jul 22, 2014	There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England.



Alberich	Nov 25 2014, 01:19 PM Post #12
Alberich Posts: 1,695 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	All I see is that we are having to accept a quarter of a million new arrivals each and every year. It would be nice to think that they come to fill vacancies in our jobs market, and that we have no trouble in accommodating them, or providing them with schooling, housing,and medical care. The opposite is true. So why do they keep on coming? Well, conditions in their homelands must be poor to motivate such a huge influx, but they come to the UK mainly because we are the most generous of the E.U. members to those who seek pastures new. And here RJD makes a valid point. Tax credits are a massive incentive, and if, as ALL the main parties now insist, we must curtail the numbers flocking to this overcrowded little island, then reducing the financial pull factor would be a good starting point. But I suspect that any attempt to discriminate against new arrivals in our welfare provisions would be verboten by the E.U. gauleiters who rule our lives to an ever increasing amount. A city the size of Newcastle each year needed simply to accommodate the flood...is that what we really need???



Deleted User	Nov 25 2014, 05:16 PM Post #13
Deleted User	There must be reason why so many EU immigrants come here and it is not because they are better off where they came from is it? They MUST be better off coming here.
Deleted User


papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 05:27 PM Post #14
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	gansao Nov 25 2014, 05:16 PM They MUST be better off coming here. They THINK they are, but they get a shock, when the reality hits, it is too late by then they don't have enough money to get back.



Deleted User	Nov 25 2014, 05:37 PM Post #15
Deleted User	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 05:27 PM gansao Nov 25 2014, 05:16 PM They MUST be better off coming here. They THINK they are, but they get a shock, when the reality hits, it is too late by then they don't have enough money to get back. Utter, utter cobblers.
Deleted User


marybrown	Nov 25 2014, 05:42 PM Post #16
Senior Member Posts: 10,516 Group: Members Member #60 Joined: Jul 27, 2014	I know a Polish couple..he works mornings..she afternoons..have 3 kids..the kids are tossed around like ballast..in a council house...and showing us the beautiful detached house they are having built in Poland..Work that one out!!



HIGHWAY	Nov 25 2014, 06:24 PM Post #17
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	marybrown Nov 25 2014, 05:42 PM I know a Polish couple..he works mornings..she afternoons..have 3 kids..the kids are tossed around like ballast..in a council house...and showing us the beautiful detached house they are having built in Poland..Work that one out!! Your moaning there working,,why?



marybrown	Nov 25 2014, 06:35 PM Post #18
Senior Member Posts: 10,516 Group: Members Member #60 Joined: Jul 27, 2014	I'm not moaning..but they still must have the same expenditures as we have..and yet they still have enough left over to build a house..



HIGHWAY	Nov 25 2014, 06:52 PM Post #19
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	marybrown Nov 25 2014, 06:35 PM I'm not moaning..but they still must have the same expenditures as we have..and yet they still have enough left over to build a house.. That's if there telling the truth of course Maybe they live well within there means,socially



somersetli	Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Post #20
somersetli Posts: 626 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that.



Deleted User	Nov 25 2014, 07:14 PM Post #21
Deleted User	Many of the East Europeans( in my factory) work 5 to 6x12 hour shifts at minimum wage. If minimum wage is say £6.50 then they will earn £390 for 5 shifts and £468 for 6 shifts. Of course they can be sacked or their hours reduced at any time and the rate posted excludes any fee taken by the agency
Deleted User


Lewis	Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM Post #22
Senior Member Posts: 3,478 Group: Members Member #10 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people.



somersetli	Nov 25 2014, 07:28 PM Post #23
somersetli Posts: 626 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Lewis Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people. Well it's going to take a lot of people to rack up £2Billion in one day.



jaguar	Nov 25 2014, 07:32 PM Post #24
Regular Member Posts: 980 Group: Members Member #26 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Lewis Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people. You will always get poor people, you will always get rich people, and people like myself, not rich, not poor, but comfortably well off. That's life, that's the way of the World. Tell me one Country where that is not so?



Rich	Nov 25 2014, 07:46 PM Post #25
Senior Member Posts: 14,463 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Surely the PM can't be wrong....or can he? or is it the plain and simple fact that the majority of us have known for years and purported by Ukip is forcing him to change his tune in such a way that it sounds as if he has been trying to fix the problem for ages.....it makes me want to spit, how is it that a supposed party of "nutjobs" can force the PM to virtually do a U turn on most of his policies? The answer is obvious, Milliband will be the next to tell his ministers in the shadow cabinet to start leaking Labours secret plans to control immigration overload (which they oversaw and ruthlessly implemented) and the benefits system which they also used to buy votes with. Is it any wonder that I hold these snakes in such low regard? http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/539565/Benefits-UK-Migrants-wages Edited by Rich, Nov 25 2014, 07:46 PM.



Lewis	Nov 25 2014, 07:55 PM Post #26
Senior Member Posts: 3,478 Group: Members Member #10 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	jaguar Nov 25 2014, 07:32 PM Lewis Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people. You will always get poor people, you will always get rich people, and people like myself, not rich, not poor, but comfortably well off. That's life, that's the way of the World. Tell me one Country where that is not so? It also shows that it is well past the time for a change!



papasmurf	Nov 25 2014, 08:14 PM Post #27
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:28 PM Well it's going to take a lot of people to rack up £2Billion in one day. It is £40 million spending £50 each, nothing dramatic.



Affa	Nov 25 2014, 08:53 PM Post #28
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 08:14 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:28 PM Well it's going to take a lot of people to rack up £2Billion in one day. It is £40 million spending £50 each, nothing dramatic. Or 40 million spending £350 pw, £18,250 pa, or £18,300 in a leap year. Consumerism rules, OK.



somersetli	Nov 25 2014, 10:53 PM Post #29
somersetli Posts: 626 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Nov 25 2014, 08:14 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:28 PM Well it's going to take a lot of people to rack up £2Billion in one day. It is £40 million spending £50 each, nothing dramatic. Oh yes?............I thought the argument was about the unequal distribution of wealth. According to your calculation everybody has got the same........£50 each.



Curious Cdn	Nov 26 2014, 12:33 AM Post #30
Frozen Member Posts: 4,818 Group: Members Member #41 Joined: Jul 1, 2014	My gawd you people are paid sh1tty wages, over there.



Heinrich	Nov 26 2014, 02:41 AM Post #31
Regular Guy Posts: 2,920 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: Jul 22, 2014	somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. Prosperous for some but not for all. There is a conspicuous disparity of wealth in England.



papasmurf	Nov 26 2014, 10:09 AM Post #32
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Curious Cdn Nov 26 2014, 12:33 AM My gawd you people are paid sh1tty wages, over there. Average income where I live £14400 a year.



somersetli	Nov 26 2014, 11:02 AM Post #33
somersetli Posts: 626 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Heinrich Nov 26 2014, 02:41 AM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. Prosperous for some but not for all. There is a conspicuous disparity of wealth in England. Nobody is saying that everybody has the same level of prosperity, obviously some have it better than others, but when has it been any different? Some would have you believe that the current coalition government has suddenly created this inequality, and if we elect a different government we will all become equal. That is a delusion, I have lived through Labour, Conservative, Lib/Lab, and now Con/Lib, and I can say that none of it makes any difference. There has always been inequality under any government and there always will be, and if you could make everybody equally wealthy it would not be long before the situation would arise again. Edited by somersetli, Nov 26 2014, 06:29 PM.



Heinrich	Nov 26 2014, 02:18 PM Post #34
Regular Guy Posts: 2,920 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: Jul 22, 2014	somersetli Nov 26 2014, 11:02 AM Heinrich Nov 26 2014, 02:41 AM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. Prosperous for some but not for all. There is a conspicuous disparity of wealth in England. Nobody is saying that everybody has the same level of prosperity, obviously some have it better than others, but when has it been any different? Some would have you believe that the current coalition government has suddenly created this equality, and if we elect a different government we will all become equal. That is a delusion, I have lived through Labour, Conservative, Lib/Lab, and now Con/Lib, and I can say that none of it makes any difference. There has always been inequality under any government and there always will be, and if you could make everybody equally wealthy it would not be long before the situation would arise again. Try not to be so defeatist, somersetli. Do not become cynical.



jaguar	Nov 26 2014, 02:32 PM Post #35
Regular Member Posts: 980 Group: Members Member #26 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	papasmurf Nov 26 2014, 10:09 AM Curious Cdn Nov 26 2014, 12:33 AM My gawd you people are paid sh1tty wages, over there. Average income where I live £14400 a year. 40,000,000 people spending£18,250 pa, Average income where you live £14400 a year. No wonder they need food banks.



RJD	Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM Post #36
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England. Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed? According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online. I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. It certainly is and the UK is doing well relatively speaking compared with the rest of the EU. We are also fortunate in having the USA as a main market and an investor. No matter how the Shroud Wavers wish to paint it, the truth is that the UK is not only doing relatively well it is also generous towards those who are not capable, for whatever reason, of looking after themselves. I do not see any of the Whingers recommending we swap our Welfare Benefits for those of most of the EU. Not heard one of them shout "we want what the Krauts get"!



Affa	Nov 26 2014, 05:38 PM Post #37
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	RJD Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. It certainly is and the UK is doing well relatively speaking compared with the rest of the EU. We are also fortunate in having the USA as a main market and an investor. No matter how the Shroud Wavers wish to paint it, the truth is that the UK is not only doing relatively well it is also generous towards those who are not capable, for whatever reason, of looking after themselves. I do not see any of the Whingers recommending we swap our Welfare Benefits for those of most of the EU. Not heard one of them shout "we want what the Krauts get"! Cameron and Obama "agreed to disagree" in 2010 - Obama went for stimulus, Cameron through Osborne went the Austerity rout. Osborne told us it was the deficit he had to tackle, had to in order to spare our grandchildren. Today the UK has the worst deficit of our major competitors and it is rising. In the USA the deficit is down from >10% GDP to 3% GDP. The UK is out performing Germany we are told - German deficit is zero = a balanced economy ......... so which position would you prefer, the balanced German economy or the "out performing" (superior) UK economy? Austerity measures do not, cannot work - spending cuts can be made where they do not have an adverse effect on growth, as these measures (plan A) clearly have done.



RJD	Nov 26 2014, 05:40 PM Post #38
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Nov 26 2014, 05:38 PM RJD Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Heinrich Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that. It certainly is and the UK is doing well relatively speaking compared with the rest of the EU. We are also fortunate in having the USA as a main market and an investor. No matter how the Shroud Wavers wish to paint it, the truth is that the UK is not only doing relatively well it is also generous towards those who are not capable, for whatever reason, of looking after themselves. I do not see any of the Whingers recommending we swap our Welfare Benefits for those of most of the EU. Not heard one of them shout "we want what the Krauts get"! Cameron and Obama "agreed to disagree" in 2010 - Obama went for stimulus, Cameron through Osborne went the Austerity rout. Osborne told us it was the deficit he had to tackle, had to in order to spare our grandchildren. Today the UK has the worst deficit of our major competitors and it is rising. In the USA the deficit is down from >10% GDP to 3% GDP. The UK is out performing Germany we are told - German deficit is zero = a balanced economy ......... so which position would you prefer, the balanced German economy or the "out performing" (superior) UK economy? Austerity measures do not, cannot work - spending cuts can be made where they do not have an adverse effect on growth, as these measures (plan A) clearly have done. Better check facts and forget sound-bites.



Deleted User	Nov 26 2014, 05:45 PM Post #39
Deleted User	RJD Nov 26 2014, 05:40 PM Affa Nov 26 2014, 05:38 PM RJD Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM somersetli Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep Cameron and Obama "agreed to disagree" in 2010 - Obama went for stimulus, Cameron through Osborne went the Austerity rout. Osborne told us it was the deficit he had to tackle, had to in order to spare our grandchildren. Today the UK has the worst deficit of our major competitors and it is rising. In the USA the deficit is down from >10% GDP to 3% GDP. The UK is out performing Germany we are told - German deficit is zero = a balanced economy ......... so which position would you prefer, the balanced German economy or the "out performing" (superior) UK economy? Austerity measures do not, cannot work - spending cuts can be made where they do not have an adverse effect on growth, as these measures (plan A) clearly have done. Better check facts and forget sound-bites. I thought Germany has followed an austerity policy...
Deleted User


Affa	Nov 26 2014, 06:29 PM Post #40
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	gansao Nov 26 2014, 05:45 PM I thought Germany has followed an austerity policy... Germany is an interesting case. My interpretation is that ostensibly Germany were advocates of austerity, their rhetoric certainly so. How could it not be when considering how it imposed harsh austrity measures on struggling euro zone members? In reality it has been different - Germany went for stimulus. btw RJD challenges the facts - he needs to say which and why. Latterly it has made a huge investment in growth (affordable - since it has no deficit) Units is euros! But whereas earnings in the UK have fallen in real terms (= austerity), not so in Germany ...... Edited by Affa, Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM.



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