Quote:

 

The Open Europe figures show that in Spain, the average weekly take-home pay after tax for a single parent with two children is £362; in Poland it is £269 and in Bulgaria £149. In Britain, a worker on the minimum wage would earn £196, but that is increased by tax credits and other benefits to £527. It means workers moving to the UK from Spain see their earnings go up 45 per cent, from Poland by 95 per cent and from Bulgaria by a staggering 253 per cent.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:40 PM

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 05:38 PM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Cameron and Obama "agreed to disagree" in 2010 - Obama went for stimulus, Cameron through Osborne went the Austerity rout.
Osborne told us it was the deficit he had to tackle, had to in order to spare our grandchildren.
Today the UK has the worst deficit of our major competitors and it is rising.
In the USA the deficit is down from >10% GDP to 3% GDP.
The UK is out performing Germany we are told - German deficit is zero = a balanced economy ......... so which position would you prefer, the balanced German economy or the "out performing" (superior) UK economy?

Austerity measures do not, cannot work - spending cuts can be made where they do not have an adverse effect on growth, as these measures (plan A) clearly have done.

Better check facts and forget sound-bites.

The message Osborne needed to see when saying he was heading for deficit reduction, and embarked on the path he took




What facts, accuracy not withstanding?
I have demonstrated the outcomes as described, these are the pertinent facts, are they not?

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM

Thats interesting. I read that there was a problem in their investment in infrastructure so where would this investment be aimed?

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 07:13 PM

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM

Thats interesting. I read that there was a problem in their investment in infrastructure so where would this investment be aimed?

I'm no authority on the subject G, do a little research is all I can do.
Much of the German success has come from business continuing to invest and the Banks continuing to lend (which is what Osborne wanted and didn't get). But the pressure on government to increase investment spending is felt, and being acted upon.

Heinrich

Nov 26 2014, 08:59 PM

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 07:13 PM

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM

Thats interesting. I read that there was a problem in their investment in infrastructure so where would this investment be aimed?

I'm no authority on the subject G, do a little research is all I can do.
Much of the German success has come from business continuing to invest and the Banks continuing to lend (which is what Osborne wanted and didn't get). But the pressure on government to increase investment spending is felt, and being acted upon.

English banks are more interested in speculating on currencies, risky financial instruments, unregulated derivatives, fraudulent dealings with the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR), mis-selling payment protection insurance, "champagne bonuses", complex interest-rate hedging products, and protecting a culture of dishonesty and cheating, rather than lending to ordinary people. It is England's most important industry these days.

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 07:13 PM

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM

Thats interesting. I read that there was a problem in their investment in infrastructure so where would this investment be aimed?

I'm no authority on the subject G, do a little research is all I can do.
Much of the German success has come from business continuing to invest and the Banks continuing to lend (which is what Osborne wanted and didn't get). But the pressure on government to increase investment spending is felt, and being acted upon.

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 06:29 PM

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 05:45 PM

I thought Germany has followed an austerity policy...

Germany is an interesting case. My interpretation is that ostensibly Germany were advocates of austerity, their rhetoric certainly so. How could it not be when considering how it imposed harsh austrity measures on struggling euro zone members?
In reality it has been different - Germany went for stimulus.

btw RJD challenges the facts - he needs to say which and why.

Latterly it has made a huge investment in growth (affordable - since it has no deficit)

Units is euros!




But whereas earnings in the UK have fallen in real terms (= austerity), not so in Germany ......

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 06:29 PM

gansao

Nov 26 2014, 05:45 PM

I thought Germany has followed an austerity policy...

Germany is an interesting case. My interpretation is that ostensibly Germany were advocates of austerity, their rhetoric certainly so. How could it not be when considering how it imposed harsh austrity measures on struggling euro zone members?
In reality it has been different - Germany went for stimulus.

btw RJD challenges the facts - he needs to say which and why.

Latterly it has made a huge investment in growth (affordable - since it has no deficit)

Units is euros!




But whereas earnings in the UK have fallen in real terms (= austerity), not so in Germany ......

ACH1967

Nov 27 2014, 08:56 AM

Affa

Nov 27 2014, 01:00 PM

ACH1967

Nov 27 2014, 08:56 AM

What do the numbers in the spending graph represent? Euros yes but is it thousands, millions or billions? I accept it may be there and i just can't see it.

ACH1967

Nov 27 2014, 02:47 PM

RJD

Nov 25 2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

 

The Open Europe figures show that in Spain, the average weekly take-home pay after tax for a single parent with two children is £362; in Poland it is £269 and in Bulgaria £149. In Britain, a worker on the minimum wage would earn £196, but that is increased by tax credits and other benefits to £527. It means workers moving to the UK from Spain see their earnings go up 45 per cent, from Poland by 95 per cent and from Bulgaria by a staggering 253 per cent.

DM


Honey Pot Britain was designed in from Day One. This Gov. has cut inward migration from none EU countries to the levels of 1997 and will get them down further, but from the EU-8 they are stubbornly high and rising. Why? Bloody obvious in it, it's the in work Tax Credits. Only by blocking access for a period, 1 or 2 years say, for new arrivals will we inhibit them from coming here or we can just get rid of them for everyone, see wages rise and numbers of jobs decline. You choose.

Affa

Nov 27 2014, 04:19 PM

ACH1967

Nov 27 2014, 02:47 PM

It was the first graph where I wasn't clear on the untis. As you say the second one is pretty clear.

RJD

Nov 27 2014, 08:39 AM

As for Germanys earnings, if it had to trade with a currency that reflected true value instead of the heavily subsidised Euro there would be a much different story.

somersetli

Nov 26 2014, 11:02 AM

Heinrich

Nov 26 2014, 02:41 AM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Heinrich

Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM

There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England.

Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed?
According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online.

I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that.

Prosperous for some but not for all. There is a conspicuous disparity of wealth in England.

Nobody is saying that everybody has the same level of prosperity, obviously some have it better than others, but when has it been any different?

Some would have you believe that the current coalition government has suddenly created this inequality, and if we elect a different government we will all become equal.
That is a delusion, I have lived through Labour, Conservative, Lib/Lab, and now Con/Lib, and I can say that none of it makes any difference.

There has always been inequality under any government and there always will be, and if you could make everybody equally wealthy it would not be long before the situation would arise again.

somersetli

Nov 26 2014, 11:02 AM

Heinrich

Nov 26 2014, 02:41 AM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Heinrich

Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM

There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England.

Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed?
According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online.

I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that.

Prosperous for some but not for all. There is a conspicuous disparity of wealth in England.

Nobody is saying that everybody has the same level of prosperity, obviously some have it better than others, but when has it been any different?

Some would have you believe that the current coalition government has suddenly created this inequality, and if we elect a different government we will all become equal.
That is a delusion, I have lived through Labour, Conservative, Lib/Lab, and now Con/Lib, and I can say that none of it makes any difference.

There has always been inequality under any government and there always will be, and if you could make everybody equally wealthy it would not be long before the situation would arise again.

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 05:40 PM

Affa

Nov 26 2014, 05:38 PM

RJD

Nov 26 2014, 04:48 PM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Cameron and Obama "agreed to disagree" in 2010 - Obama went for stimulus, Cameron through Osborne went the Austerity rout.
Osborne told us it was the deficit he had to tackle, had to in order to spare our grandchildren.
Today the UK has the worst deficit of our major competitors and it is rising.
In the USA the deficit is down from >10% GDP to 3% GDP.
The UK is out performing Germany we are told - German deficit is zero = a balanced economy ......... so which position would you prefer, the balanced German economy or the "out performing" (superior) UK economy?

Austerity measures do not, cannot work - spending cuts can be made where they do not have an adverse effect on growth, as these measures (plan A) clearly have done.

Better check facts and forget sound-bites.

More dumb insolence, can you not make an honest appraisal of anything?

THOSE ARE FACTS.

Rich

Nov 27 2014, 09:02 PM

If everyone were to become equal in wealth terms then ......

jaguar

Nov 25 2014, 07:32 PM

Lewis

Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Heinrich

Nov 25 2014, 10:59 AM

There is not much honey for the working class in "prosperous" England.

Isn't about time we put this tale of woe to bed?
According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers here in the UK are expected to spend £2Billion in a single day this week. £363 Million of it online.

I would think "prosperous" is a fair word to describe that.

You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people.

You will always get poor people, you will always get rich people, and people like myself, not rich, not poor, but comfortably well off.

That's life, that's the way of the World. Tell me one Country where that is not so?

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 10:18 PM

jaguar

Nov 25 2014, 07:32 PM

Lewis

Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people.

You will always get poor people, you will always get rich people, and people like myself, not rich, not poor, but comfortably well off.

That's life, that's the way of the World. Tell me one Country where that is not so?

According to the ONS not so long ago, the UK had the most unequal distribution of wealth of the developed countries. What does that say about this reasonably rich country?

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 08:42 AM

Unequal in what respect and to what degree.

C-too

Nov 27 2014, 10:18 PM

jaguar

Nov 25 2014, 07:32 PM

Lewis

Nov 25 2014, 07:19 PM

somersetli

Nov 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

You might think its fair, but the majority would more than likely not think so. The prosperity in this country is distributed unfairly to far too few people.

You will always get poor people, you will always get rich people, and people like myself, not rich, not poor, but comfortably well off.

That's life, that's the way of the World. Tell me one Country where that is not so?

According to the ONS not so long ago, the UK had the most unequal distribution of wealth of the developed countries. What does that say about this reasonably rich country?

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 09:31 AM

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 08:42 AM

Unequal in what respect and to what degree.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/multimedia/infographic-income-inequality-uk

somersetli

Nov 28 2014, 09:57 AM

This Equality Trust should produce the same facts for India.

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 10:04 AM

somersetli

Nov 28 2014, 09:57 AM

This Equality Trust should produce the same facts for India.

Why? (Serious, any diverting away from the British situation is spurious.)

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 10:59 AM

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 10:04 AM

somersetli

Nov 28 2014, 09:57 AM

This Equality Trust should produce the same facts for India.

Why? (Serious, any diverting away from the British situation is spurious.)

Not at all it facilitates a little thing called perspective.

Saying the UK has the worst inequality of incomes in the developed world doesn't carry that much weight if the difference between it and many of its rivals is .00001% if it is 100% then it is. What is important is getting a true as posisble vision of the situation before rushing around getting ones rocks off on soundbites.

The report, I think it was C-too posted, is/would be damning if our inequality was so much worse than our "equals" and if factors such as billionaires living in London are not skewing the figures. Right now none of this is clear so I reserve judgement rather than making infantile posts about others being spurious when they are being anything but and are simply asking questions that you would much rather not be asked.

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 10:59 AM

Saying the UK has the worst inequality of incomes in the developed world doesn't carry that much weight if the difference between it and many of its rivals is .00001%

C-too

Nov 28 2014, 10:34 AM

India does not come in the top 15 developed countries. Don't know where they do come.

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 11:18 AM

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 10:59 AM

Saying the UK has the worst inequality of incomes in the developed world doesn't carry that much weight if the difference between it and many of its rivals is .00001%

All the info you need for Europe:-
http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1050&intPageId=1870&langId=en

Just a snippet:-

The level of GDP and income equality are positively correlated among both the EU15 and EU12 Member States (Figure 4). Among the EU12 Member States, Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Slovenia have lower levels of inequality than would be expected given their level of GDP per head. Latvia and Lithuania on the other hand have higher levels of inequality. Among the EU15 countries Finland, Sweden and Cyprus are less unequal given their GDP, than other countries, while the UK and Spain has higher degrees of inequality.


More comparison data:-

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/about-inequality/scale-and-trends/scale-economic-inequality-uk

Out of the 29 OECD countries in the LIS data set, the UK is the fourth most unequal, and within this data set it is the most unequal in Europe

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 12:00 PM

I think you have illustated the point for me that this data set is far more useful and informative than that provided by the equality trust whihc is more like propoganda than information

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 12:13 PM

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 12:00 PM

I think you have illustated the point for me that this data set is far more useful and informative than that provided by the equality trust whihc is more like propoganda than information

Their data is referenced and is mainly ONS, so how you make that out to be propaganda I don't know.

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 12:18 PM

the bit i said in the rest of the post that you strangely ignored and didn't quote.

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 12:21 PM

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 12:18 PM

the bit i said in the rest of the post that you strangely ignored and didn't quote.

I was commenting on your use of the word propaganda.

somersetli

Nov 28 2014, 09:57 AM

papasmurf

Nov 28 2014, 09:31 AM

RJD

Nov 28 2014, 08:42 AM

Unequal in what respect and to what degree.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/multimedia/infographic-income-inequality-uk

This Equality Trust should produce the same facts for India.

ACH1967

Nov 28 2014, 12:44 PM

And the statement "the majority of people would have a better income if we lived in a more equal" should be in the OED under peurile. It is a pathetic document that is an insult to anyones intellgigence although clearly not PS' (just kidding)