Crisis? What Crisis?

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Crisis? What Crisis?; Autumn Statement
Topic Started: Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM (821 Views)
Affa	Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM Post #1
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren.



ACH1967	Dec 3 2014, 01:34 PM Post #2
Senior Member Posts: 4,226 Group: Members Member #56 Joined: Jul 24, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren. Perhaps I am being cynical but I detect a hint of sarcasm



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 01:36 PM Post #3
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren.



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 01:40 PM Post #4
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	ACH1967 Dec 3 2014, 01:34 PM Perhaps I am being cynical but I detect a hint of sarcasm I am reporting what I have heard, some of it, and expressing that the content of it is something worth celebrating, is good news. For NEWS it most assuredly is, as previously the rhetoric has been of more hardship to come, of a fragile recovery, of a crisis in funding that demands more spending cuts. The reversal is sudden and surprising.



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 01:43 PM Post #5
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:40 PM ACH1967 Dec 3 2014, 01:34 PM Perhaps I am being cynical but I detect a hint of sarcasm I am reporting what I have heard, some of it, and expressing that the content of it is something worth celebrating, is good news. For NEWS it most assuredly is, as previously the rhetoric has been of more hardship to come, of a fragile recovery, of a crisis in funding that demands more spending cuts. The reversal is sudden and surprising.



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 01:59 PM Post #6
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	papasmurf Dec 3 2014, 01:43 PM I do not consider myself to be naive PS. not on this matter anyway. I am certain that when the dust settles the actuality will be a little different ....... "The UK economy is stronger than those of France and Germany" - Germany has a balanced economy (the Chancellor's target to balance the books here is 2019), and even France has a lower deficit lower PSBR.



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 02:51 PM Post #7
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:59 PM I am certain that when the dust settles the actuality will be a little different ....... http://ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/public-sector-finances/october-2014/sum-public-sector-finances--october-2014.html http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm%3A77-354781 Edited by papasmurf, Dec 3 2014, 02:52 PM.



marybrown	Dec 3 2014, 04:15 PM Post #8
Senior Member Posts: 10,516 Group: Members Member #60 Joined: Jul 27, 2014	Wow PS..you managed to post something on here.I'm impressed..



Alberich	Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM Post #9
Alberich Posts: 1,695 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse.



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 04:50 PM Post #10
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	marybrown Dec 3 2014, 04:15 PM Wow PS..you managed to post something on here.I'm impressed.. What the (expletive deleted) are you on about?



jaguar	Dec 3 2014, 04:52 PM Post #11
Regular Member Posts: 980 Group: Members Member #26 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Listening to Ed Balls ranting and raving, reminds Me of the arsonist, who after setting fire to His house, criticising the Firefighters for not putting the flames out fast enough.



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Post #12
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. Ed Balls hasn't inspired confidence in anybody it seems, certainly not I. So why the Labour party have him as Shadow is a lot confusing - just maybe he's a lot better at doing the maths than he is when talking about the maths. What I really respond to say however is that this "It would be worse if .... " argument really shouldn't carry any weight. Especially when you consider how far off target these people have been in the past with their "what will be projections". I'm struggling to recall a single instance where Tory propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will happen".



jaguar	Dec 3 2014, 05:14 PM Post #13
Regular Member Posts: 980 Group: Members Member #26 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. I'm struggling to recall a single instance where Tory propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will happen". I'm struggling to recall a single instance where any party propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will or won't happen". Oh hang on......... Edited by jaguar, Dec 3 2014, 05:15 PM.



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 05:30 PM Post #14
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4wcuo9Mgo Edited by Affa, Dec 3 2014, 05:33 PM.



ACH1967	Dec 3 2014, 05:35 PM Post #15
Senior Member Posts: 4,226 Group: Members Member #56 Joined: Jul 24, 2014	marybrown Dec 3 2014, 04:15 PM Wow PS..you managed to post something on here.I'm impressed.. Apart from the fact that the title of the graph is dishonest. You can't say wages fall when actually it isn't wages but it's wages less housing costs. It could be that housing costs have shot up and wages haven't moved, which in fact is much more likely to be the truth. Was this the title of the graph in the ONS report it was taken from?



C-too	Dec 3 2014, 05:56 PM Post #16
Honourable Member Posts: 17,686 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Jul 12, 2014	Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. OPinion and assumption are pretty useless. Opinion and assumtion in 2010 was that the Tories would sort out the deficit in five years. They haven't even cut it by the half Brown said he would do in 4 years.



marybrown	Dec 3 2014, 06:02 PM Post #17
Senior Member Posts: 10,516 Group: Members Member #60 Joined: Jul 27, 2014	papasmurf Dec 3 2014, 04:50 PM marybrown Dec 3 2014, 04:15 PM Wow PS..you managed to post something on here.I'm impressed.. What the (expletive deleted) are you on about? I don't need your expletives..when I try to post something, after about 2 seconds..the timer has run out... No need to get all Alpha Male on me...



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 06:12 PM Post #18
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	Apparently Doom & Gloom are still on offer, only not talked about today. On another day these will be the entire focus of conversation and all suggestion of there being good times, a time for celebrating delivery from purgatory is over is finished is done - Everything promised is reliant on Government spending being cut even further than over the last four years, on austerity measures more than twice as stringent as those experienced. Other factors too .......... reliant on inflation below 2%, and the missing element not touched on in today's Statement = Interest rates? Interest rates are set to rise - where to is unknown, but GO and the OBR have not factored in rising interest rates ......... or what effect these will have on a whole raft of the criteria in the economy. Nevermind, they are (both) well versed in the use of BS to explain away any wrongness in their forecasts.



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 06:32 PM Post #19
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	marybrown Dec 3 2014, 06:02 PM I don't need your expletives..when I try to post something, after about 2 seconds..the timer has run out... No need to get all Alpha Male on me... What has that got to do with your comment:- "Wow PS..you managed to post something on here.I'm impressed.."



Tigger	Dec 3 2014, 06:39 PM Post #20
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren. If I was under 35 years of age I would be jumping for joy and hugging anyone within range, for so long this demographic has been invisible to the Tory party despite these people being the future of this country. Just off to A&E to have a very firmly stuck tongue removed from my cheek.



papasmurf	Dec 3 2014, 06:44 PM Post #21
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Tigger Dec 3 2014, 06:39 PM Just off to A&E You could be there for a long time.



Lewis	Dec 3 2014, 07:03 PM Post #22
Senior Member Posts: 3,478 Group: Members Member #10 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren. Yes this absolutely wonderful news, couldn't have anything to do with an General Election in 5 months time? Or am I just being cynical. If the incompetents win, then in June back to doom and gloom for another four and a half years it will be. Giddie must think we are idiots. Has the drunken or drug ridden tosspot sobered up yet?



Tigger	Dec 3 2014, 07:08 PM Post #23
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Dec 3 2014, 06:44 PM Tigger Dec 3 2014, 06:39 PM Just off to A&E You could be there for a long time. Don't be silly they have just pumped another £2bn into it!



Steve K	Dec 3 2014, 07:18 PM Post #24
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Isn't anyone going to discuss the measures in the statement My take: - borrowing more and trying to hide his failure with othwr news !nono! !nono! - taxing multinationals - reducing tax breaks for banks - Air duty removed for under 12s !nono! should have been doubled - has Osborne in business class never realised how much a pain kids are on planes? - Stamp Duty changes but at heart it's an evil tax on people moving to get jobs - Extra money for NHS - blatant using our money to buy votes but not enough to actually cure the patient - freezing fuel duty - could an election be due? !nono! - Money for roads - FFS Osborne you announced this last year. !nono! Have I missed anything of significance? Edited by Steve K, Dec 3 2014, 07:19 PM.



Tigger	Dec 3 2014, 07:27 PM Post #25
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Steve K Dec 3 2014, 07:18 PM Have I missed anything of significance? Indeed you have! In a few short weeks it will be the birthday of the sweet baby Jesus!



Affa	Dec 3 2014, 07:40 PM Post #26
Senior Member Posts: 11,999 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: Jul 26, 2014	Steve K Dec 3 2014, 07:18 PM Isn't anyone going to discuss the measures in the statement My take: - borrowing more and trying to hide his failure with othwr news !nono! !nono! - taxing multinationals - reducing tax breaks for banks - Air duty removed for under 12s !nono! should have been doubled - has Osborne in business class never realised how much a pain kids are on planes? - Stamp Duty changes but at heart it's an evil tax on people moving to get jobs - Extra money for NHS - blatant using our money to buy votes but not enough to actually cure the patient - freezing fuel duty - could an election be due? !nono! - Money for roads - FFS Osborne you announced this last year. !nono! Have I missed anything of significance? It's what he didn't say where the problems.concerns arise. Like. and I hope I get this right, cutting public spending to 35% of GDP. Currently spending is 47% GDP (a 26% FURTHER reduction in Government spending - and still insists on spending £12bn in Foreign Aid). Not only more cuts planned but 150% more than has already been endured. How does he get to sleep at nights?



Tytoalba	Dec 3 2014, 07:58 PM Post #27
Senior Member Posts: 7,586 Group: Members Member #36 Joined: Jun 29, 2014	ACH1967 Dec 3 2014, 01:34 PM Affa Dec 3 2014, 01:29 PM I must acknowledge the past error of mine of identifying Osborne and his party as the Doom & Gloom party. Today I have heard nothing of the sort ....... no crisis of funding for the NHS, the housing market/shortage solved, and Welfare spending coming down (at last). The recovery is under-way, strong, and the shortages we are told in the Treasury are turning into a glut. What a wonderful week for the country, the government, the grandchildren. Perhaps I am being cynical but I detect a hint of sarcasm I have always believed in Affa's sincerity. We have frequently disagreed. but have, I believe, respected each others POV, and the right to hold and express it.



AndyK	Dec 3 2014, 08:09 PM Post #28
Senior Member Posts: 2,474 Group: Members Member #69 Joined: Aug 11, 2014	Steve K Dec 3 2014, 07:18 PM Isn't anyone going to discuss the measures in the statement My take: - borrowing more and trying to hide his failure with othwr news !nono! !nono! - taxing multinationals - reducing tax breaks for banks - Air duty removed for under 12s !nono! should have been doubled - has Osborne in business class never realised how much a pain kids are on planes? - Stamp Duty changes but at heart it's an evil tax on people moving to get jobs - Extra money for NHS - blatant using our money to buy votes but not enough to actually cure the patient - freezing fuel duty - could an election be due? !nono! - Money for roads - FFS Osborne you announced this last year. !nono! Have I missed anything of significance? Actually, it is not borrowing more, the overall package in £1bn in favour of the exchequer.



Rich	Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Post #29
Senior Member Posts: 14,463 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. Ed Balls hasn't inspired confidence in anybody it seems, certainly not I. So why the Labour party have him as Shadow is a lot confusing - just maybe he's a lot better at doing the maths than he is when talking about the maths. What I really respond to say however is that this "It would be worse if .... " argument really shouldn't carry any weight. Especially when you consider how far off target these people have been in the past with their "what will be projections". I'm struggling to recall a single instance where Tory propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will happen". The fact that Ball is the shadow chancellor says volumes about the choices that Milliband has to choose from now that the heavyweights and front guards have left him in the wilderness, as others have said including those from his own party....Milliband is the best weapon that the conservatives have.



Rich	Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Post #30
Senior Member Posts: 14,463 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: Jun 28, 2014	Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. Ed Balls hasn't inspired confidence in anybody it seems, certainly not I. So why the Labour party have him as Shadow is a lot confusing - just maybe he's a lot better at doing the maths than he is when talking about the maths. What I really respond to say however is that this "It would be worse if .... " argument really shouldn't carry any weight. Especially when you consider how far off target these people have been in the past with their "what will be projections". I'm struggling to recall a single instance where Tory propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will happen". The fact that Ball is the shadow chancellor says volumes about the choices that Milliband has to choose from now that the heavyweights and front guards have left him in the wilderness, as others have said including those from his own party....Milliband is the best weapon that the conservatives have. I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html



C-too	Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Post #31
Honourable Member Posts: 17,686 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: Jul 12, 2014	Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Alberich Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM One thing is certain, however. If Balls had been at the Treasury for the past five years, things would be a LOT worse. Ed Balls hasn't inspired confidence in anybody it seems, certainly not I. So why the Labour party have him as Shadow is a lot confusing - just maybe he's a lot better at doing the maths than he is when talking about the maths. What I really respond to say however is that this "It would be worse if .... " argument really shouldn't carry any weight. Especially when you consider how far off target these people have been in the past with their "what will be projections". I'm struggling to recall a single instance where Tory propaganda has got it right when they say "this is what will happen". The fact that Ball is the shadow chancellor says volumes about the choices that Milliband has to choose from now that the heavyweights and front guards have left him in the wilderness, as others have said including those from his own party....Milliband is the best weapon that the conservatives have. I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy.



RJD	Dec 4 2014, 05:43 PM Post #32
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep The fact that Ball is the shadow chancellor says volumes about the choices that Milliband has to choose from now that the heavyweights and front guards have left him in the wilderness, as others have said including those from his own party....Milliband is the best weapon that the conservatives have. I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy. True, but he is an improvement on the last lot and that is all he has going for him.



Lewis	Dec 6 2014, 06:49 PM Post #33
Senior Member Posts: 3,478 Group: Members Member #10 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Affa Dec 3 2014, 05:10 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep The fact that Ball is the shadow chancellor says volumes about the choices that Milliband has to choose from now that the heavyweights and front guards have left him in the wilderness, as others have said including those from his own party....Milliband is the best weapon that the conservatives have. I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy. Agreed, most people think Brown was a far better chancellor than the drunken Gideon. In fact even Balls, couldn't balls it up as must as the Tory incompetent Ozzie!



AndyK	Dec 6 2014, 08:25 PM Post #34
Senior Member Posts: 2,474 Group: Members Member #69 Joined: Aug 11, 2014	Lewis Dec 6 2014, 06:49 PM C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy. Agreed, most people think Brown was a far better chancellor than the drunken Gideon. In fact even Balls, couldn't balls it up as must as the Tory incompetent Ozzie! Hmm, lets review the Gordon Brown legacy 1- Gold being sold off at rock bottom prices. 2- Domestic rates more than doubled. 3- Raided private pension funds and used this money to bolster up public sector pension pots. 4- Public sector increased by over 1.2 million extra non-essential employees increasing our public debt. 5- Promised no more boom and bust then gave us the biggest bust in history. Any more?



Steve K	Dec 7 2014, 12:58 PM Post #35
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014



Tigger	Dec 7 2014, 01:02 PM Post #36
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	AndyK Dec 6 2014, 08:25 PM Lewis Dec 6 2014, 06:49 PM C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deephttps://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy. Agreed, most people think Brown was a far better chancellor than the drunken Gideon. In fact even Balls, couldn't balls it up as must as the Tory incompetent Ozzie! Hmm, lets review the Gordon Brown legacy 1- Gold being sold off at rock bottom prices. 2- Domestic rates more than doubled. 3- Raided private pension funds and used this money to bolster up public sector pension pots. 4- Public sector increased by over 1.2 million extra non-essential employees increasing our public debt. 5- Promised no more boom and bust then gave us the biggest bust in history. Any more? And he saved the World!



Steve K	Dec 7 2014, 01:10 PM Post #37
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Tigger Dec 7 2014, 01:02 PM AndyK Dec 6 2014, 08:25 PM Lewis Dec 6 2014, 06:49 PM C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deephttps://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html Agreed, most people think Brown was a far better chancellor than the drunken Gideon. In fact even Balls, couldn't balls it up as must as the Tory incompetent Ozzie! Hmm, lets review the Gordon Brown legacy 1- Gold being sold off at rock bottom prices. 2- Domestic rates more than doubled. 3- Raided private pension funds and used this money to bolster up public sector pension pots. 4- Public sector increased by over 1.2 million extra non-essential employees increasing our public debt. 5- Promised no more boom and bust then gave us the biggest bust in history. Any more? And he saved the World! didn't he make poverty history too? Then invented newspeak that makes millions in the UK appear to be in poverty to his loyal Gorgonistas.



RJD	Dec 7 2014, 01:41 PM Post #38
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	I think the question is why has productivity in the UK remained stubbornly low for such a long period? I recall reading reports on this 50 years ago when Japan, the USA and Germany were forging ahead. Whilst we have kept apace with Germany over recent decades in terms of productivity growth, from a lower base, which has always been in the range of 2%-3% PA, this last recession has shown no recovery in that trend. In fact we are losing ground. Clearly there will be no significant increases in basic wages unless these are accompanied by increases in productivity. Invest in modern automated machinery helps, but this kills off jobs and creates fewer requiring higher levels of skill. Whilst this is is a complex one I think that our current problem is that there are far too many people prepared to take on low paid jobs with flexible contracts and this inhibits such productivity improving but job killing investment. Our problems have been exacerbated by far too much supply of low cost unskilled labour coupled with a decline in education and skills of those locals joining the market. I think it will take at least another decade to rid ourselves of the Public Sector Deficit, "Brown's poisoned chalice", mainly because the tax revenues are no longer to be garnered from the wider working population, due to depressed wage rates, higher tax thresholds, and such cannot be lifted without improvements in productivity which take at least a decade to bring about. We are stuck in a rut and the only solution, a disgraceful one in my view, from the left is to make future generations pay. Looking around you will see that most of the UK's major private companies are as efficient as the best anywhere. The improvements in logistics over the last few years has been dramatic. So where are those large deep pockets of poor productivity? They certainly are not all resting in the private sector, but with many SMEs they are. So what do we do to SMEs we discourage them from employing people with Payroll Taxes, Employment Rules and more recently access to finances. They say that if every SME takes on just one person from the unemployment queue then it would only contain those that always move to the back when they see the front looming. However, without ridding ourselves of the chalice or bringing it down to a more manageable size, say <40% of GDP, how are we ever going to remove the taxes on jobs? The future certainly is not rosy and it could be 2025 -2030 before we escape the rut. In the meantime we convince ourselves that we need more and more immigrants to do jobs that those already here are fit to undertake. Madness.



RJD	Dec 7 2014, 01:46 PM Post #39
Prudence and Thrift Posts: 12,499 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Steve K Dec 7 2014, 01:10 PM Tigger Dec 7 2014, 01:02 PM AndyK Dec 6 2014, 08:25 PM Lewis Dec 6 2014, 06:49 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deephttps://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html Hmm, lets review the Gordon Brown legacy 1- Gold being sold off at rock bottom prices. 2- Domestic rates more than doubled. 3- Raided private pension funds and used this money to bolster up public sector pension pots. 4- Public sector increased by over 1.2 million extra non-essential employees increasing our public debt. 5- Promised no more boom and bust then gave us the biggest bust in history. Any more? And he saved the World! didn't he make poverty history too? Then invented newspeak that makes millions in the UK appear to be in poverty to his loyal Gorgonistas. Sorry for the correction, but you are referring to "relative poverty" not the absolute variety and yes a few Pennies per week to parents allowed the Spinner in Chief of the left to claim they had lifted 2m out of poverty. Nobody even bothered to check whether or not just one of those Pennies went into food for children. Same sort of spin goes on with wages, poor wages due to credits do not necessarily mean wage poverty.



Tigger	Dec 7 2014, 01:49 PM Post #40
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	RJD Dec 4 2014, 05:43 PM C-too Dec 4 2014, 03:41 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:14 PM Rich Dec 3 2014, 08:10 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep I must confess, I found the Chancellors quip regarding the red planet as very funny and it certainly hit home. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/autumn-statement--george-osborne-s-jokes-161647774.html It's a pitty he's not that good with the economy. True, but he is an improvement on the last lot and that is all he has going for him. An improvement! What we know from the final years of Labour misrule is this, if you create a debt fuelled housing bubble and have very low interest rates you suck in imports and the trade deficit widens significantly, personal debt also goes through the roof and wealth is only created on paper but lacks any substance when put to the test. So the Conservatives answer to the previous problems is to have a re run of previously failed policies FFS! If anyone wonders why I detest contemporary British politics and have a very low opinion of millions of my fellow countrymen for thinking that all this is perfectly normal fiscal behaviour, your answer is in the first two paragraphs.



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