Russell Brand v Nigel Farage

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Russell Brand v Nigel Farage
Topic Started: Dec 13 2014, 02:01 AM (1,051 Views)
Cymru	Dec 13 2014, 02:01 AM Post #1
Alt-Right Posts: 3,504 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: Jun 26, 2014	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11289211/Russell-Brand-v-Nigel-Farage-the-audience-won-by-knockout.html Farage wins by default. Brand was out of his comfort zone with issues he knew nothing about and it showed.

Replies:
johnofgwent	Dec 14 2014, 09:06 AM Post #41
It .. It is GREEN !! Posts: 7,086 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Jun 26, 2014	Steve K Dec 13 2014, 12:55 PM That was the brother of a UKIP MEP that we are supposed to believe just happened to be there. The identity of the questioner does not invalidate the nature of the question nor in any way detract from its need to be answered. At least I had the guts to stand in the street with a plastic bucket and a placard, use the money it gathered - which in the end was more than enough by the way - and stick my name on a nomination form, then go out into the constituency that sent Neil Kinnock to Westminster, find ten people who lived there and voted there wished to see an election instead of a win by default for labour, and have my name put on a ballot paper for a british general election. And then do it again for the Welsh Assembly the following year. I also had the satisfaction of ALMOST retaining my deposit the first time, and seeing the look on the returning officer's face when they had to return the deposit of the constituency candidate for whom I was the election agent the following year ... (I also had the immense pleasure of knowing I was the reason the turnout in the seat for the 2010 election rocketed above anything seen for decades, as all sides mobilised their sofa sitters to vote against me). You may choose to mock me for that fact, but I did more in six weeks to engage the electorate of the south wales valleys in the electoral process than margaret thatcher, michael foot, neil kinnock, john smith, tony blair, william hague, iain duncan smith, and "the other one who had something of the night about him" managed in twenty bloody years. And of that, as a staunch believer in the principle of parliamentary democracy, I am RIGHTLY proud.



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 09:11 AM Post #42
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:05 AM Yet again,because I give you an answer you don't like,you call me perverse, You need to explain a mind set which makes you more angry about 16p a week being stolen off of you, than you are about £50 a week being stolen off of you.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 09:19 AM Post #43
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 09:11 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:05 AM Yet again,because I give you an answer you don't like,you call me perverse, You need to explain a mind set which makes you more angry about 16p a week being stolen off of you, than you are about £50 a week being stolen off of you. Why who says I have to,,you?? Yet again I will say you asked a question I answered it.



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 09:26 AM Post #44
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:19 AM Why who says I have to,,you?? Yet again I will say you asked a question I answered it. But you haven't answered because all you are doing is as per usual, Trolling.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 09:34 AM Post #45
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 09:26 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:19 AM Why who says I have to,,you?? Yet again I will say you asked a question I answered it. But you haven't answered because all you are doing is as per usual, Trolling. Trolling now earlier because I didn't give you the answer you wanted you said I was perverse, the answer is very simple if you just take a minute to think about it, but your hate filled mind can't bring yourself to do that.



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 09:40 AM Post #46
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:34 AM Trolling now earlier because I didn't give you the answer you wanted you said I was perverse, the answer is very simple if you just take a minute to think about it, but your hate filled mind can't bring yourself to do that. It is you who have a hate filled mind, you proved that with your first answer.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 10:12 AM Post #47
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 09:40 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 09:34 AM Trolling now earlier because I didn't give you the answer you wanted you said I was perverse, the answer is very simple if you just take a minute to think about it, but your hate filled mind can't bring yourself to do that. It is you who have a hate filled mind, you proved that with your first answer. Are you saying that because you didn't like the answer?



krugerman	Dec 14 2014, 10:24 AM Post #48
Regular Member Posts: 1,152 Group: Members Member #11 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Tytoalba Dec 13 2014, 11:39 PM krugerman Dec 13 2014, 07:11 PM It is tradition on QT to invite a couple of non-politicians onto the panel, usualy journalists, but sometimes famous people such as authors, entertainers, columnists and business people. You dont need to be a politician to have an opinion, and you dont have to stand for election in order to criticise either a political party or individual, Mr Brand has a right to his opinion, whether you agree with him or not. To be honest I dont really know much about him as a comedian, but I sure do like his opinions. His opinions are generalities, not specific. The idea that all bankers, politicians and those working in the city are scoundrels has to be total nonsense. They have been made political scapegoats by such as Brand and his supporters. That's not to say that some are not, but then such characteristics exist in all walks of life. My GP in London killed two of his wives, but that is not to suggest that all Doctors are Murderers. murderpedia.org/male.B/b/baksh-john.htm I would not like to give the impression that all bankers or people in financial institutions are scoundrels, but I was merely pointing out that it was those trades which caused the financial crisis and the subsequent recession - not migrants or immigrants, as Russel Brand correctly pointed out. In the same vain, the overwhelming majority of migrants are not scoundrels, the overwhelming majority come here to work, I agree fully with Mr Brand that migrants are used by UKIP as a scapegoat, but in actual fact none of UKIP s wild claims stand up to scrutiny. Both UKIP and others on the looney right, have attempted to tarnish and blacken the reputation of migrants - that they are all scroungers, that they abuse our NHS, that they are mostly criminals, or that they are an economic drain, all claims which have well and truly been banished to the file marked "fantasy".



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 10:37 AM Post #49
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:12 AM Are you saying that because you didn't like the answer? You refuse to explain your answer. Which speaks volumes.



Steve K	Dec 14 2014, 10:39 AM Post #50
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	johnofgwent Dec 14 2014, 09:06 AM Steve K Dec 13 2014, 12:55 PM That was the brother of a UKIP MEP that we are supposed to believe just happened to be there. The identity of the questioner does not invalidate the nature of the question nor in any way detract from its need to be answered. At least I had the guts to stand in the street with a plastic bucket and a placard, use the money it gathered - which in the end was more than enough by the way - and stick my name on a nomination form, then go out into the constituency that sent Neil Kinnock to Westminster, find ten people who lived there and voted there wished to see an election instead of a win by default for labour, and have my name put on a ballot paper for a british general election. And then do it again for the Welsh Assembly the following year. I also had the satisfaction of ALMOST retaining my deposit the first time, and seeing the look on the returning officer's face when they had to return the deposit of the constituency candidate for whom I was the election agent the following year ... (I also had the immense pleasure of knowing I was the reason the turnout in the seat for the 2010 election rocketed above anything seen for decades, as all sides mobilised their sofa sitters to vote against me). You may choose to mock me for that fact, but I did more in six weeks to engage the electorate of the south wales valleys in the electoral process than margaret thatcher, michael foot, neil kinnock, john smith, tony blair, william hague, iain duncan smith, and "the other one who had something of the night about him" managed in twenty bloody years. And of that, as a staunch believer in the principle of parliamentary democracy, I am RIGHTLY proud. John that rant seems rather disconnected from my post you posted it in response to, the thread in general and in the last paragraph from reality. Where have I mocked you? The fact remains that positioning professionally briefed questioners in the audience of Questionable Time would be a serious matter and it does seem that may have happened here.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 10:46 AM Post #51
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 10:37 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:12 AM Are you saying that because you didn't like the answer? You refuse to explain your answer. Which speaks volumes. So if I said it's a disgrace that people employ good accountants so they don't have to pay much tax,and it's ok that people break the law by cheating the benefit system,you would be happy with that?



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 10:54 AM Post #52
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:46 AM So if I said it's a disgrace that people employ good accountants so they don't have to pay much tax,and it's ok that people break the law by cheating the benefit system,you would be happy with that? I am not commenting on legal tax avoidance, I am commenting about tax evasion, which is illegal. You are condoning industrial scale illegal activity. You really do need to explain why, or shut up.



Steve K	Dec 14 2014, 11:00 AM Post #53
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 10:54 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:46 AM So if I said it's a disgrace that people employ good accountants so they don't have to pay much tax,and it's ok that people break the law by cheating the benefit system,you would be happy with that? I am not commenting on legal tax avoidance, I am commenting about tax evasion, which is illegal. You are condoning industrial scale illegal activity. You really do need to explain why, or shut up. Yes tax evasion is illegal but it is nothing like the levels you continually misrepresent it to be. A huge component of that £3.5B a year is people evading VAT by buying for cash with no receipt. What do you suggest we do about them?



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:08 AM Post #54
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	Steve K Dec 14 2014, 11:00 AM papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 10:54 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:46 AM So if I said it's a disgrace that people employ good accountants so they don't have to pay much tax,and it's ok that people break the law by cheating the benefit system,you would be happy with that? I am not commenting on legal tax avoidance, I am commenting about tax evasion, which is illegal. You are condoning industrial scale illegal activity. You really do need to explain why, or shut up. Yes tax evasion is illegal but it is nothing like the levels you continually misrepresent it to be. A huge component of that £3.5B a year is people evading VAT by buying for cash with no receipt. What do you suggest we do about them? Judging by his posts in the pasts,,it will involve a gun



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:09 AM Post #55
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 10:54 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 10:46 AM So if I said it's a disgrace that people employ good accountants so they don't have to pay much tax,and it's ok that people break the law by cheating the benefit system,you would be happy with that? I am not commenting on legal tax avoidance, I am commenting about tax evasion, which is illegal. You are condoning industrial scale illegal activity. You really do need to explain why, or shut up. Not commentating on people who break the law by stealing my and others money,by claiming benefits there not entitled too I see



Tigger	Dec 14 2014, 11:11 AM Post #56
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 07:51 AM papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 07:43 AM Tytoalba Dec 13 2014, 11:39 PM The idea that all bankers, politicians and those working in the city are scoundrels has to be total nonsense. Not all, but a very high percentage are scoundrels. Basically most of the population are being shafted by them:- The benefit cheat. I take it the career in accountancy didn't last long?



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:11 AM Post #57
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Steve K Dec 14 2014, 11:00 AM A huge component of that £3.5B a year is people evading VAT by buying for cash with no receipt. What do you suggest we do about them? £3.5 billion where have you got that low number from?



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:17 AM Post #58
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:09 AM Not commentating on people who break the law by stealing my and others money,by claiming benefits there not entitled too I see Yes I have commented often and I currently have a 100% track record of being right when I have reported people for doing so. But benefit fraud costing me 16p a week does not compare with the few people who are between them costing me £50 a week in offshored out of the economy tax evasion. To be angry about the former and not even bothered about the latter as you are is perverse, and you really do need to explain yourself because if you won't or can't you are as per usual wasting my time and everyone else's time by Trolling.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:25 AM Post #59
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:17 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:09 AM Not commentating on people who break the law by stealing my and others money,by claiming benefits there not entitled too I see Yes I have commented often and I currently have a 100% track record of being right when I have reported people for doing so. But benefit fraud costing me 16p a week does not compare with the few people who are between them costing me £50 a week in offshored out of the economy tax evasion. To be angry about the former and not even bothered about the latter as you are is perverse, and you really do need to explain yourself because if you won't or can't you are as per usual wasting my time and everyone else's time by Trolling. Perverse and trolling in the one sentence,because I have a different opinion from you. Yip you keep mentioning your perfect record of reporting two benefit cheats,,so do you want a badge for that?



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:26 AM Post #60
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:25 AM Yip you keep mentioning your perfect record of reporting two benefit cheats,,so do you want a badge for that? I do not want a badge for doing my civic duty.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:27 AM Post #61
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:26 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:25 AM Yip you keep mentioning your perfect record of reporting two benefit cheats,,so do you want a badge for that? I do not want a badge for doing my civic duty. Why keep mentioning it then,after all you have in the past



Steve K	Dec 14 2014, 11:27 AM Post #62
Once and future cynic Posts: 33,990 Group: Admins Member #20 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:11 AM Steve K Dec 14 2014, 11:00 AM A huge component of that £3.5B a year is people evading VAT by buying for cash with no receipt. What do you suggest we do about them? £3.5 billion where have you got that low number from? Well the latest HMRC figure for tax evasion is £4.1B. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf See graphic on page 4. I note the silence on VAT evasion, perhaps you don't count no receipt cash trading as tax evasion.



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:33 AM Post #63
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Steve K Dec 14 2014, 11:27 AM Well the latest HMRC figure for tax evasion is £4.1B. Which experts agree is a massive under estimate, bordering on being a joke. (Had Bernie Ecclestone lost the recent court case in Germany he would have owed nearly as much as that to HMRC, on his own admission.)



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:36 AM Post #64
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:33 AM Steve K Dec 14 2014, 11:27 AM Well the latest HMRC figure for tax evasion is £4.1B. Which experts agree is a massive under estimate, bordering on being a joke. (Had Bernie Ecclestone lost the recent court case in Germany he would have owed nearly as much as that to HMRC, on his own admission.) But he didn't lose the case,,,in Germany



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:37 AM Post #65
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:36 AM But he didn't lose the case,,,in Germany He effectively paid a bribe to the court to stay out of jail.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:43 AM Post #66
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:37 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:36 AM But he didn't lose the case,,,in Germany He effectively paid a bribe to the court to stay out of jail. So is that his fault,,or Germanys legal system fault



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:44 AM Post #67
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:37 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:36 AM But he didn't lose the case,,,in Germany He effectively paid a bribe to the court to stay out of jail. So is that his fault,,or Germanys legal system fault



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:45 AM Post #68
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:44 AM So is that his fault,,or Germanys legal system fault Both and the British taxpayer is the loser.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 11:55 AM Post #69
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:45 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:44 AM So is that his fault,,or Germanys legal system fault Both and the British taxpayer is the loser. Not his fault,but Germany's fault,,haven't you said in the past how other countries like Germany and. France are sorting all those tax cheats?



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 11:58 AM Post #70
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:55 AM Not his fault,but Germany's fault,,haven't you said in the past how other countries like Germany and. France are sorting all those tax cheats? They are sorting them out, Ecclestone is just a lot more devious that those who German and French courts have jailed for tax evasion.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 12:03 PM Post #71
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 11:58 AM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 11:55 AM Not his fault,but Germany's fault,,haven't you said in the past how other countries like Germany and. France are sorting all those tax cheats? They are sorting them out, Ecclestone is just a lot more devious that those who German and French courts have jailed for tax evasion. They can't have sorted there problem out properly yet,,I know they jailed one famous guy,,but not Bernie,apart from the bribe to the court,there must be another reason,maybe get would win an appeal



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM Post #72
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 12:03 PM They can't have sorted there problem out properly yet But at least they are in the process of doing so, Osborne is doing nothing.



Tigger	Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM Post #73
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Whatever happened to the British tradition of rooting for the underdog, did we have him put down by any chance? Castigate corporate tax avoidance and highlight some of the very wealthy who go out of their way to circumvent any rules that might affect them and you'll get numerous tabloid trained drones to stick up for them! But fiddle a few quid off the dole or pay the window cleaner in cash and look out potless pleb will be gunning for you!



papasmurf	Dec 14 2014, 12:12 PM Post #74
Senior Member Posts: 17,280 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM But fiddle a few quid off the dole or pay the window cleaner in cash and look out potless pleb will be gunning for you! At least that money is still circulating in the economy, the offshored evaded tax is not.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 12:21 PM Post #75
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 12:12 PM Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM But fiddle a few quid off the dole or pay the window cleaner in cash and look out potless pleb will be gunning for you! At least that money is still circulating in the economy, the offshored evaded tax is not. Still breaking the law



Tigger	Dec 14 2014, 12:22 PM Post #76
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	I find these sort of debates quite funny, logically you'd go after the biggest avoider of dues simply because the potential returns for the state are greater, but some seem to have got sidetracked into believing that the real problem is single mum types and those who have eff all doing a bit of work on the side!



Tigger	Dec 14 2014, 12:25 PM Post #77
Senior Member Posts: 20,106 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 12:21 PM papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 12:12 PM Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM But fiddle a few quid off the dole or pay the window cleaner in cash and look out potless pleb will be gunning for you! At least that money is still circulating in the economy, the offshored evaded tax is not. Still breaking the law Change the law then and allow these people to re route there ill gotten twenty quid through a Jersey based brass plate bank. I suspect you'd then approve.



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 12:29 PM Post #78
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:25 PM HIGHWAY Dec 14 2014, 12:21 PM papasmurf Dec 14 2014, 12:12 PM Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:07 PM But fiddle a few quid off the dole or pay the window cleaner in cash and look out potless pleb will be gunning for you! At least that money is still circulating in the economy, the offshored evaded tax is not. Still breaking the law Change the law then and allow these people to re route there ill gotten twenty quid through a Jersey based brass plate bank. I suspect you'd then approve. I would approve if all law breakers were brought to justice,,,seems people on here don't want that



krugerman	Dec 14 2014, 12:36 PM Post #79
Regular Member Posts: 1,152 Group: Members Member #11 Joined: Jun 27, 2014	Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:22 PM I find these sort of debates quite funny, logically you'd go after the biggest avoider of dues simply because the potential returns for the state are greater, but some seem to have got sidetracked into believing that the real problem is single mum types and those who have eff all doing a bit of work on the side! Strange how supporters of this government always find a reason why the richest should not be taxed a bit more, same as those at the bottom, and why to do so is bad for everyone, and bad for the economy, yet the working couple hit by the bedroom tax just have to accept that they were scrounging on taxpayers money. I sometimes wonder what plannet supporters of this governments ideas live on, and where they get their logic from



HIGHWAY	Dec 14 2014, 12:41 PM Post #80
Senior Member Posts: 4,040 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: Jul 23, 2014	krugerman Dec 14 2014, 12:36 PM Tigger Dec 14 2014, 12:22 PM I find these sort of debates quite funny, logically you'd go after the biggest avoider of dues simply because the potential returns for the state are greater, but some seem to have got sidetracked into believing that the real problem is single mum types and those who have eff all doing a bit of work on the side! Strange how supporters of this government always find a reason why the richest should not be taxed a bit more, same as those at the bottom, and why to do so is bad for everyone, and bad for the economy, yet the working couple hit by the bedroom tax just have to accept that they were scrounging on taxpayers money. I sometimes wonder what plannet supporters of this governments ideas live on, and where they get their logic from Here it comes,,,it's this governments fault,,,not the previous governments



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