Quote:

 

Wales and the North West are the fastest growing parts of the UK, and doing better than supposedly booming London. According to the latest data on regional output per head, compiled by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), Wales has the strongest growth rate in the UK, followed by the North West, with the North East also comfortably ahead of London.
It turns out that the tidal wave of public spending the last government unleashed was crowding out the private sector. Now that it has dried up, private businesses are creating plenty of new jobs – and those jobs are more productive than the government ones they replace. It is going to take a while, but on the current trends, Wales and the North should be able to close much of the gap with the prosperous South East.
That wasn’t what anyone expected. Even those who accepted that public spending had to be brought back under control were worried about the impact it might have on some of the regions. Under Labour, parts of the UK were approaching Soviet-era levels of state dominance. In 2009, the Centre for Economics and Business Research calculated that the state accounted for 69pc of economic activity in Wales

Quote:

 

The reality is public spending cuts are helping Wales and the North
With little new hiring and pay rises frozen in the public sector, the private sector is staging a comeback, and creating jobs and competitive salaries

Affa

Dec 16 2014, 12:16 PM

Well; knowing the penchant for spin that the Tories have, without which they'd be already impoverished, not me, I say.

I've not seen the data but the article is so full of BS I need no confirmation to know that both Wales and the NW are no where near as productive as London, their GVA abysmally low in comparison.
What this is about is yet another example of 'recovery from a low base being easier than sustained growth in a successful economy'. Of course London cannot keep outpacing the rest indefinitely as it reaches the ceiling - and by the same rules those regions mentioned have far more potential to expand "if only the investments were made to do so".

Verdict - Another Propaganda exercise that dresses up failure in fine rhetoric but cannot disguise the need the do so ........

Heinrich

Dec 17 2014, 06:53 AM

It must be wonderful to live in Wales or the North when the Tories control Westminster.

RJD

Dec 17 2014, 08:43 AM

Affa

Dec 16 2014, 12:16 PM

Well; knowing the penchant for spin that the Tories have, without which they'd be already impoverished, not me, I say.

I've not seen the data but the article is so full of BS I need no confirmation to know that both Wales and the NW are no where near as productive as London, their GVA abysmally low in comparison.
What this is about is yet another example of 'recovery from a low base being easier than sustained growth in a successful economy'. Of course London cannot keep outpacing the rest indefinitely as it reaches the ceiling - and by the same rules those regions mentioned have far more potential to expand "if only the investments were made to do so".

Verdict - Another Propaganda exercise that dresses up failure in fine rhetoric but cannot disguise the need the do so ........

You are known here for your preference to claim everything that you do not wish to hear as lies. Best however, for your own sanity at least, you try and offer some proof.

RJD

Dec 17 2014, 08:43 AM

Affa

Dec 16 2014, 12:16 PM

Well; knowing the penchant for spin that the Tories have, without which they'd be already impoverished, not me, I say.

I've not seen the data but the article is so full of BS I need no confirmation to know that both Wales and the NW are no where near as productive as London, their GVA abysmally low in comparison.
What this is about is yet another example of 'recovery from a low base being easier than sustained growth in a successful economy'. Of course London cannot keep outpacing the rest indefinitely as it reaches the ceiling - and by the same rules those regions mentioned have far more potential to expand "if only the investments were made to do so".

Verdict - Another Propaganda exercise that dresses up failure in fine rhetoric but cannot disguise the need the do so ........

You are known here for your preference to claim everything that you do not wish to hear as lies. Best however, for your own sanity at least, you try and offer some proof.

Affa

Dec 17 2014, 10:19 AM

This BS example that pretends Wales is 'booming' because its growth rate is higher than that of London is pure propaganda.
There are third world countries that have double digit growth rates, and they still remain third world! Growth is rate of change, and when countries/regions are at the bottom of earnings tables even a £ more can make a difference, and show change. Alternatively in the richer countries/regions a £ is literally a drop in the ocean.


RankPlaceGVA per capita in pounds

1Greater London34,200 ($52,776)
2South East England20,923 ($32,287)
3East of England18,591 ($28,689)
4South West England18,211 ($28,102)
5East Midlands17,349 ($26,772)
6North West England17,263 ($26,639)
7West Midlands16,788 ($25,906)
8Yorkshire and the Humber, England16,569 ($25,568)
9North East England15,621 ($24,106)

Now to tell the fact ......... using these figures the North West of England would require a GROWTH rate twice that of Greater London, Just to Keep Pace.
So having a faster growth rate does not by itself establish that there is also greater prosperity than a region with slower growth - it is relative, in the same way that a shop floor worker getting a 5% pay rise is not the same as his top dollar senior exec getting a 5% (or even 1%) pay rise. The exec still comes out as being better rewarded.
RJD presents us with BS on a regular basis ........ < a retaliation along the lines of 'rep' which he decided was worth drawing attention to.

RJD

Dec 17 2014, 12:18 PM

Me thinks you have deliberately ignored the context for political reasons. Read my posting again as it deals with a specific period and mainly to do with Welfare Wales.

RJD

Dec 16 2014, 07:50 AM

Quote:

 

Wales and the North West are the fastest growing parts of the UK, and doing better than supposedly booming London. According to the latest data on regional output per head, compiled by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), Wales has the strongest growth rate in the UK, followed by the North West, with the North East also comfortably ahead of London.
It turns out that the tidal wave of public spending the last government unleashed was crowding out the private sector. Now that it has dried up, private businesses are creating plenty of new jobs – and those jobs are more productive than the government ones they replace. It is going to take a while, but on the current trends, Wales and the North should be able to close much of the gap with the prosperous South East.
That wasn’t what anyone expected. Even those who accepted that public spending had to be brought back under control were worried about the impact it might have on some of the regions. Under Labour, parts of the UK were approaching Soviet-era levels of state dominance. In 2009, the Centre for Economics and Business Research calculated that the state accounted for 69pc of economic activity in Wales

Public spending cuts help

Quote:

 

The reality is public spending cuts are helping Wales and the North
With little new hiring and pay rises frozen in the public sector, the private sector is staging a comeback, and creating jobs and competitive salaries

So all the warnings from the viscous left have been found to be wrong, again. The private sector made unproductive by Public Sector wages set in London, has responded. Even during the Labour phoney boom years here in Wales even after massive EY grants, saw jobs go into decline and the necessity of young people leaving for England to find work. My goodness Wales is discovering Capitalism and it works. Carry on like this and one day, maybe, we can tell the English where to stuff her subsidies.

RJD

Dec 16 2014, 07:50 AM

Quote:

 

Wales and the North West are the fastest growing parts of the UK, and doing better than supposedly booming London. According to the latest data on regional output per head, compiled by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), Wales has the strongest growth rate in the UK, followed by the North West, with the North East also comfortably ahead of London.
It turns out that the tidal wave of public spending the last government unleashed was crowding out the private sector. Now that it has dried up, private businesses are creating plenty of new jobs – and those jobs are more productive than the government ones they replace. It is going to take a while, but on the current trends, Wales and the North should be able to close much of the gap with the prosperous South East.
That wasn’t what anyone expected. Even those who accepted that public spending had to be brought back under control were worried about the impact it might have on some of the regions. Under Labour, parts of the UK were approaching Soviet-era levels of state dominance. In 2009, the Centre for Economics and Business Research calculated that the state accounted for 69pc of economic activity in Wales

Public spending cuts help

Quote:

 

The reality is public spending cuts are helping Wales and the North
With little new hiring and pay rises frozen in the public sector, the private sector is staging a comeback, and creating jobs and competitive salaries

So all the warnings from the viscous left have been found to be wrong, again. The private sector made unproductive by Public Sector wages set in London, has responded. Even during the Labour phoney boom years here in Wales even after massive EY grants, saw jobs go into decline and the necessity of young people leaving for England to find work. My goodness Wales is discovering Capitalism and it works. Carry on like this and one day, maybe, we can tell the English where to stuff her subsidies.

Lewis

Dec 17 2014, 11:22 PM

Just right wing pro Tory propaganda.

ACH1967

Dec 18 2014, 09:02 AM

So where is this particular post wrong then?

Affa

Dec 17 2014, 05:57 PM

RJD

Dec 17 2014, 12:18 PM

Me thinks you have deliberately ignored the context for political reasons. Read my posting again as it deals with a specific period and mainly to do with Welfare Wales.

And you should read what you posted!
The opening quote specifically asserts that Wales is "doing better than supposedly booming London", and the whole article plus your reaction is based on this falsity, this spin.
These two are growing faster, they are not outperforming London and GDP growing more - the opposite. London remains as the largest region of growth in GDP.
As posted they would have to grow twice as fast in order to just keep pace with London.

ACH1967

Dec 18 2014, 11:26 AM

I agree with this. I do not agree with the way this government (which I voted for) is going about it. I don't think that any reasonable person can argue that it isn't the poorest and most vulnerable in or country who are suffering the brunt of the cuts. This shouldn't be the case. The burden should be spread but nobody is suggesting that they are both just peddling various versions of BS. It is to be expected but it is not helpful.

RJD

Dec 18 2014, 01:10 PM

ACH1967

Dec 18 2014, 11:26 AM

I agree with this. I do not agree with the way this government (which I voted for) is going about it. I don't think that any reasonable person can argue that it isn't the poorest and most vulnerable in or country who are suffering the brunt of the cuts. This shouldn't be the case. The burden should be spread but nobody is suggesting that they are both just peddling various versions of BS. It is to be expected but it is not helpful.

But they are not and it would be a good idea if you have such an opinion that you put up the evidence that helped form such. The weight of taxation, quite rightly, has been moved from the bottom towards the other end by this Gov. Maybe your claim is that the so-called Poor should not be asked to contribute anything, no income taxes, no VAT, no Council Taxes etc. You could have a moral basis, but to claim that the Poor are the heavy lifters is pure BS.

RJD

Dec 18 2014, 04:28 PM

ACH: The idea that the poor are not suffering more than those better off is just not true.

The word suffering is subjective and I cannot deal with it unless you put a Yardstick against. I only deal with the reality of what is said.

Pro Veritas

Dec 18 2014, 05:51 PM

That the poor are suffering is not even up for debate, anyone with an ounce of human decency sees it all around them every day.

RJD

Dec 18 2014, 04:28 PM

ACH: The idea that the poor are not suffering more than those better off is just not true.

The word suffering is subjective and I cannot deal with it unless you put a Yardstick against. I only deal with the reality of what is said.

ACH: Attempting to play games with words to make it appear that the poor aren't suffering worse is low.

I do not see how you can construe my words to mean such.

ACH: The cuts that are being made will affect the poorest in our society.

For instance?


ACH: They will affect those better off also but it is the poor who predominantly rely on these services. The bedroom tax is an appallingly executed plan that is causing pain to the poorest in society. The number of sanctions has gone through the roof causing more people to have to use food banks. Trying to say that this government cares about the poor is just not true.

Not trying to say anything, just stating the true state of affairs. The so-called bedroom tax is a good idea, unfortunately like the Poll Tax, it has been highjacked by the left to focus their ongoing whinge which started somewhere at the beginning of the last century. Yes a good idea because there is a growing demand for social housing with increased space by many. What about them? I also think it wise to provide some incentive for those with space beyond their immediate requirements sensible. That said the pace of change could have been moderated, but we know what happens when one takes a relaxed attitude with Local Gov. Sweet FA.

ACH: I started from your view point but as I have seen the situation develop I have changed my position in repsonse to the facts. You may be happy to constantly quote the party line but I wish to view the situation with objectivity. I do not necessarily think the labour party would do any better but that doesn't mean I should pretend that what the tories are doing is good for the poor either.

I am not a member of any political party, never have been and never will be. I am not so much pro Tory as anti Labour, anti left, anti socialist and pro real jobs.


ACH: Please feel free to trot out your line of "would you commit the poor to a life on benefits". It is a mute point because I do not. I agree with you in as much that for some a stick may work. There will be other for whom the stick will not work, for various reasons, and this will just make their lives more miserable. I don't happen to think that this is something to celebrate.

As always one needs a "carrot" and a "stick".

ACH: Oh and I didn't claim the poor were the heavy lifter I said they were suffering the most. Are you honetsly saying that austerity is causing more pain to those better off than the poor?

"Suffering" that word again. From my perspective they have always been suffering. Best find them jobs as that is the very best social salve. Real ones mind.
There is a balance to be had and in my view the last lot tilted the scales far to far in the wrong direction and yes we do all have some responsibilities towards the way we chose to run our lives. I do not wish to live in a society where the State purloins those responsibilities that I prefer to manage myself and can so do.

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 08:56 AM

I am not one who likes the phrase that the Tories are the nasty party but their actions are currently speaking for themselves.

papasmurf

Dec 19 2014, 09:01 AM

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 08:56 AM

I am not one who likes the phrase that the Tories are the nasty party but their actions are currently speaking for themselves.

Had you watched the recent bedroom tax and food bank debates in the House of Commons, on BBC Parliament you would be in no doubt at all the Tories are the nasty party.
If there were any Tory MPs with a social conscience they would be besieging Iain Duncan Smith demanding he resign.

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 09:38 AM

Watching parliamentary debates is not something I am likely to do. Could you summarise or give some examples? If not fair enough.

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 09:38 AM

Watching parliamentary debates is not something I am likely to do. Could you summarise or give some examples? If not fair enough.

papasmurf

Dec 19 2014, 09:01 AM

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 08:56 AM

I am not one who likes the phrase that the Tories are the nasty party but their actions are currently speaking for themselves.

Had you watched the recent bedroom tax and food bank debates in the House of Commons, on BBC Parliament you would be in no doubt at all the Tories are the nasty party.
If there were any Tory MPs with a social conscience they would be besieging Iain Duncan Smith demanding he resign.

RJD

Dec 19 2014, 11:06 AM

papasmurf

Dec 19 2014, 09:01 AM

ACH1967

Dec 19 2014, 08:56 AM

I am not one who likes the phrase that the Tories are the nasty party but their actions are currently speaking for themselves.

Had you watched the recent bedroom tax and food bank debates in the House of Commons, on BBC Parliament you would be in no doubt at all the Tories are the nasty party.
If there were any Tory MPs with a social conscience they would be besieging Iain Duncan Smith demanding he resign.

Me thinks it is those nasty lefties who seem to want to keep people out of paid work as long as possible. A thoroughly immoral lot who falsely claim to sit on the moral high ground. It is just far too easy to write people off and shuffle them on to the Useless List, however, it takes enormous courage to make reforms in the face of the blizzard of accusations from those that ultimately appear not to give a damn. Sorry Mr Smurf but you have lost the argument Joe Public is for the reforms by an overwhelming majority and accept that benefits must be capped and that the cap proposed is generous, relatively speaking.

RJD

Dec 19 2014, 11:06 AM

Me thinks it is those nasty lefties who seem to want to keep people out of paid work as long as possible.

papasmurf

Dec 19 2014, 02:45 PM

RJD

Dec 19 2014, 11:06 AM

Me thinks it is those nasty lefties who seem to want to keep people out of paid work as long as possible.

No they don't RJD and you know it. How you can support the disgraceful way the Tories are treating the poorest and most vulnerable people in Britain I really do not understand. (You can't plead ignorance about it either.)

RJD

Dec 19 2014, 01:15 PM

Again a subjective measure. In comparison to that which was the life of the many in the 1930s and 40s that is not suffering.

RJD

Dec 19 2014, 06:37 PM

But you do and you know it. You have been against each and every initiative to promote the idea that work actually is good for people.

Steve K

Dec 20 2014, 10:16 AM

More meaningless posts misusing words like 'suffer' and 'poverty' to describe 'relative poverty' which in fact just means not everyone is as well off as the average person. No shit Sherlock.