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Tory trying to disenfranchise immigrants?
Topic Started: Jan 8 2015, 08:09 PM (288 Views)
papasmurf
Senior Member
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Can anyone verify this please? (I can't read the Times link because it is subscription only.)

http://www.markpack.org.uk/113663/liam-fox-wants-kick-half-million-indians-pakistanis-off-electoral-register/

Liam Fox wants to kick half a million Indians and Pakistanis off the electoral register

January 6, 2015 - 10:55 am

It’s a well-established piece of election law that Irish and Commonwealth citizens who live in the UK can vote in general elections. Despite the minor matters of it being long-standing, a matter of past political discussion, often featuring in briefing information provided to election candidates and something that 1.5 million people get reminded about directly at election time, The Times has rather curiously called it “obscure” [£].

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4314021.ece

But more importantly also reported what Liam Fox and Conservative colleagues want to do:


Senior Tories called for an emergency change in the law last night as official figures revealed the scale of foreigners who will be free to cast a vote in May.

This could result in them being able to decide the outcome of what is set to be the closest and most unpredictable election result in decades. Under an obscure law that has never been reformed, people from Ireland and the Commonwealth who live in the UK are given voting rights. Irish, Indian and Pakistani citizens top the list of those allowed to cast a vote…

Some Conservatives believe that the number of voters from ethnic minorities included in the list will provide a boost to Labour. The previous election showed that Labour was far more successful in winning the votes of those from ethnic minorities…

Liam Fox, the former defence secretary, said: “It is ridiculous that the government of a country like ours could be decided by those who are not British citizens. It is high time we brought this law up to date.”

Graham Brady, the chairman of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee who has attempted to change the law in the past, said that a legal change was “crucially important”…

“This is a matter of fundamental fairness, but is critically important as we face a general election that threatens to be very close. It would be outrageous if overseas nationals were able to decide the outcome.”

Who would such a change kick off the electoral register?
•345,000 Irish
•306,000 Indians
•180,000 Pakistani
•73,000 Australians
•52,000 Zimbabweans
•Other countries in the top ten are Nigeria, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Canada and Bangladesh.

I suspect non-Conservative candidates may be repeatedly reminding their local Commonwealth and Irish voters of the views such Conservatives hold…






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Tigger
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If true this looks like some old style Tory Gerrymandering.

And on such a bad day for Tesco as well...........
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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No immigrant should have the vote.
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papasmurf
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Cymru
Jan 8 2015, 08:28 PM
No immigrant should have the vote.
That would include a significant number of MPs.
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krugerman
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It would appear that this is true

The Conservatives can see that an outright victory in May is probably out of reach, and so desperation prevails, anything that they can possibly do to increase their chances of victory.
This is the same reason why David Cameron has today declared that without the Greens represented in any election debate, he would not take part.

It is now a well known fact that the 2010 debates hindered the Conservatives, helped Nick Clegg immensely and Labour to a lesser degree, the BBC political editor let the cat out of the bag, he told viewers that Mr Cameron had admitted as such.

It is a long held custom that Commonwealth citizens resident in another Commonwealth country can vote in general elections, this applies to the 1.3 million British people in Australia, 600,000 in Canada, 200,000 in New Zealand, and many thousands elsewhere.

This is a desperate measure by a desperate government who are using desperate measures to hang on to power.
Edited by krugerman, Jan 8 2015, 10:39 PM.
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Nonsense
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Go for it.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:09 PM
Can anyone verify this please? (I can't read the Times link because it is subscription only.) . .
Well I can confirm that that Times article does say that

But then Liam Fox is a loser, very much yesterday's man ever since he soiled his record so publicly.

As for that Greens in the TV debate it is a counter ploy. Having Farage in there will hurt Cameron most, having the Greens in there will hurt the left wing most

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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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I see nothing at all wrong with limiting the franchise to British Citizens; whether they be of immigrant origin or not.

In fact I would argue that allowing non-citizens to vote actually partially disenfranchises citizens.

All The Best
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Marconi
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papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:31 PM
Cymru
Jan 8 2015, 08:28 PM
No immigrant should have the vote.
That would include a significant number of MPs.
Yep, be careful of a DNA test.

When Lord Tebbit and Carol Thatcher took one for a TV show their jaws dropped when the tests showed that they were not 100% Anglo-Saxon.
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RJD
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Marconi
Jan 9 2015, 08:34 AM
papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:31 PM
Cymru
Jan 8 2015, 08:28 PM
No immigrant should have the vote.
That would include a significant number of MPs.
Yep, be careful of a DNA test.

When Lord Tebbit and Carol Thatcher took one for a TV show their jaws dropped when the tests showed that they were not 100% Anglo-Saxon.
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.
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Affa
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RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.

Celtic?

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Tigger
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RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Marconi
Jan 9 2015, 08:34 AM
papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:31 PM
Cymru
Jan 8 2015, 08:28 PM
No immigrant should have the vote.
That would include a significant number of MPs.
Yep, be careful of a DNA test.

When Lord Tebbit and Carol Thatcher took one for a TV show their jaws dropped when the tests showed that they were not 100% Anglo-Saxon.
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.
So in the real and contemporary "England" we all inhabit the figure is not even close to 80%?

And if you remember a former colony booted us out in 1776 for taxation without representation, and lets face it everyone pays some taxes whether we like it or not.

File under bloody mongrels coming over here, retiring to Wales and telling us what we should be doing. ;-)
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Tigger
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Steve K
Jan 8 2015, 11:55 PM
papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:09 PM
Can anyone verify this please? (I can't read the Times link because it is subscription only.) . .
Well I can confirm that that Times article does say that

But then Liam Fox is a loser, very much yesterday's man ever since he soiled his record so publicly.

As for that Greens in the TV debate it is a counter ploy. Having Farage in there will hurt Cameron most, having the Greens in there will hurt the left wing most

Is Fox still with his obese special advisor? (Boyfriend)

Allegedly.
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Tigger
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Affa
Jan 9 2015, 04:46 PM
RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.

Celtic?

Well I'm blue eyed and blond so that probably makes me an 8th century immigrant.
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johnofgwent
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Cymru
Jan 8 2015, 08:28 PM
No immigrant should have the vote.
I would not go ghat far.

I WOULD make it that no non british passport holder could vote.

I think it a bloody cheek the irish living here but not a british citizen can vote for my mp

Wouldvthey let me vote in their country tipo bring in abortion ? The fuckbthey would.

Disenfranchise the lot of em
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Tigger
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johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 07:32 PM


I WOULD make it that no non british passport holder could vote.

And I would prohibit anyone who is not a British citizen or is not domiciled here from donating money to any political party.
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Rich
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Tigger
Jan 8 2015, 08:12 PM
If true this looks like some old style Tory Gerrymandering.

And on such a bad day for Tesco as well...........

I agree, it is as bad as buying votes and allowing people to live on benefits.
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Rich
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Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:06 PM
RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Marconi
Jan 9 2015, 08:34 AM
papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:31 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Yep, be careful of a DNA test.

When Lord Tebbit and Carol Thatcher took one for a TV show their jaws dropped when the tests showed that they were not 100% Anglo-Saxon.
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.
So in the real and contemporary "England" we all inhabit the figure is not even close to 80%?

And if you remember a former colony booted us out in 1776 for taxation without representation, and lets face it everyone pays some taxes whether we like it or not.

File under bloody mongrels coming over here, retiring to Wales and telling us what we should be doing. ;-)
Please explain to me how the unemployed who live on benefits pay taxes.
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Tigger
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Rich
Jan 9 2015, 07:40 PM
Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:06 PM
RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Marconi
Jan 9 2015, 08:34 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.
So in the real and contemporary "England" we all inhabit the figure is not even close to 80%?

And if you remember a former colony booted us out in 1776 for taxation without representation, and lets face it everyone pays some taxes whether we like it or not.

File under bloody mongrels coming over here, retiring to Wales and telling us what we should be doing. ;-)
Please explain to me how the unemployed who live on benefits pay taxes.
As far as I know the unemployed are unable to deduct VAT from any purchases they have to make.

Unlike some of us.............
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:45 PM
As far as I know the unemployed are unable to deduct VAT from any purchases they have to make.

Unlike some of us.............
Other than most food there is VAT on every thing else they buy.
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johnofgwent
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Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:35 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 07:32 PM


I WOULD make it that no non british passport holder could vote.

And I would prohibit anyone who is not a British citizen or is not domiciled here from donating money to any political party.
Is that not already the case ... I thought several large sums had to be handed back as originating from foreigners ... am I mistaken ?
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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 11:51 PM
Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:35 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 07:32 PM


I WOULD make it that no non british passport holder could vote.

And I would prohibit anyone who is not a British citizen or is not domiciled here from donating money to any political party.
Is that not already the case ... I thought several large sums had to be handed back as originating from foreigners ... am I mistaken ?
Well I think you're right
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:09 PM

Who would such a change kick off the electoral register?
•345,000 Irish
•306,000 Indians
•180,000 Pakistani
•73,000 Australians
•52,000 Zimbabweans
Play the race card all you like ...

The fact remains the current system which probably does benefit the left permits a million people who have no status as british citizens the right to influence who governs britain.

Compare and contrast the USA if you will

Outside every public building after every oath of allegiance ceremony for new american citizens a large group of activists for both parties stand with clipboards encoyraging the new citizen to register to vote.

No american election csn be swayed by foreigners not in posession of a US passport or the papers to get one.

Thats what we need here.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Steve K
Jan 9 2015, 11:56 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 11:51 PM
Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:35 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 07:32 PM


I WOULD make it that no non british passport holder could vote.

And I would prohibit anyone who is not a British citizen or is not domiciled here from donating money to any political party.
Is that not already the case ... I thought several large sums had to be handed back as originating from foreigners ... am I mistaken ?
Well I think you're right
I looked it up. Parties may only accept donations from individuals registered to vote, or associations or companies registered in the uk.

Foreigners registered to vote under current rules can donate.

No one else can.

But anyone can give £499.99

Because a donation is defined as money goods or services worth £500 or more

Anything worth £499.99 or less is "not" a donation.

Something else I would change.

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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Jan 10 2015, 12:13 AM
Steve K
Jan 9 2015, 11:56 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 9 2015, 11:51 PM
Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:35 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Is that not already the case ... I thought several large sums had to be handed back as originating from foreigners ... am I mistaken ?
Well I think you're right
I looked it up. Parties may only accept donations from individuals registered to vote, or associations or companies registered in the uk.

Foreigners registered to vote under current rules can donate.

No one else can.

But anyone can give £499.99

Because a donation is defined as money goods or services worth £500 or more

Anything worth £499.99 or less is "not" a donation.

Something else I would change.

Ta, interesting and I agree with your proposals both on voting and contributions. I would also bar ex pats from registering to vote here (yes some do).
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krugerman
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The current law does not give foreign visitors, tourists or foreign students the right to vote in this country, nor does it give casual residents from other countries that right.

It is, and always has been customary for those people who are not British citizens, but who have been given permission to remain in the UK, and who are citizens of another Commonwealth country or Ireland, the right to vote.

The argument is that as these people are here on a permanent or semi-permanent basis, working and paying taxes, contributing to the country and the economy, they should have the right to participate in the democracy of the nation.

A classic example of these Commonwealth citizens would be Indian doctors, who came here to work in the NHS, and have been given "leave to remain" due to their skills and profession.
As India does not allow for dual nationality, many of these doctors keep their Indian nationality, many have been here for a long time, sometimes most of their life, buying a home, marrying here, paying every kind of tax from petrol duty to higher rate income tax.

As stated previously, this suggestion is clutching at straws by a desperate government, considering every possible trick and tactic to hang onto power.

This reciprocal agreement between Commonwealth nations is a long standing understanding, and any move to change the tradition would undermine the spirit and nature of what is the "family of nations".
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RJD
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Tigger
Jan 9 2015, 07:06 PM
RJD
Jan 9 2015, 03:12 PM
Marconi
Jan 9 2015, 08:34 AM
papasmurf
Jan 8 2015, 08:31 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Yep, be careful of a DNA test.

When Lord Tebbit and Carol Thatcher took one for a TV show their jaws dropped when the tests showed that they were not 100% Anglo-Saxon.
Funny as the English population as a whole, excluding, 20th C immigrants and their offspring, is <80% Anglo-Saxen.

I think votes should be linked to taxes.
So in the real and contemporary "England" we all inhabit the figure is not even close to 80%?

And if you remember a former colony booted us out in 1776 for taxation without representation, and lets face it everyone pays some taxes whether we like it or not.

File under bloody mongrels coming over here, retiring to Wales and telling us what we should be doing. ;-)
You are more interested in trying to attack me as a person than actually grappling with issues. I put it down to your obvious inferior, in average terms, bog standard Compo education. Try focussing on the message and forget who was the Messenger if you are able. I suspect this is way beyond your ability.

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