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Cost of living
Topic Started: Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM (836 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Misery Index - At lowest level since Jan-05

Quote:
 
This morning’s figures show that goods (i.e., the stuff we buy) were 1pc cheaper in Christmas 2014 than Christmas 2013. Factor in services and still, UK consumer price inflation was 0.5pc in December, the (joint) lowest since records began in 2004 (pdf).


Quote:
 
‘Falling food prices – a result of intense competition among UK supermarkets – have also played a major role in the low inflation figures. Disinflationary pressures look set to continue in the first half of 2015. Retailers are still in a phase of intense competition, petrol prices should fall back further in the first half of the year and utility companies are likely to cut prices given developments in wholesale markets.’



I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





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papasmurf
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Link please and the graphic doesn't work.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 02:26 PM
Link please and the graphic doesn't work.
No it doesn't and I do not yet understand why sometimes they do and other times using the same procedure they don't. Anyway look here: LINK

No I am not interested in your BS logic of claiming because it is in the Spectator it therefore must be wrong by definition. Try that false logic with your local Kindergarten.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:29 PM


No I am not interested in your BS logic of claiming because it is in the Spectator it therefore must be wrong by definition. Try that false logic with your local Kindergarten.

It is not a link to the origin RJD, which means it is useless as a reference.

The origin:-
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_390953.pdf
Edited by papasmurf, Jan 13 2015, 02:35 PM.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 02:32 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:29 PM


No I am not interested in your BS logic of claiming because it is in the Spectator it therefore must be wrong by definition. Try that false logic with your local Kindergarten.

It is not a link to the origin RJD, which means it is useless as a reference.
Not for those with the skill and education, however, I understand your difficulties as you are unused to detailed research preferring only sound bites.

Since when as an ONS pdf become unacceptable?

Given the time elapsed between my posting and your response it is clear that you did not even bother to check the sources. Shame on you Mr Smurf especially when you have the audacity to attempt to portray yourself as learned.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:38 PM


Since when as an ONS pdf become unacceptable?



It hasn't which is why I posted it.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:38 PM


Given the time elapsed between my posting and your response it is clear that you did not even bother to check the sources.
It was a link to the Spectator not a link to the origin.
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Pro Veritas
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM
I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling.
We still spend a greater %age of net income on those things than any other European nation.

Which tell me those things are still over priced, mainly driven by the artificial and dangerously high housing market.

We need a significant period of genuine deflation to drive the housing market down by about 20% to bring it down to far more sensible and so sustainable levels.

All The Best
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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM


I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





RJD it will take a large amount of extra money coming in each week to even start to scratch the surface of the massive drop in living standards, a handful of peanuts does not make any difference.
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HIGHWAY
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papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 06:55 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM


I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





RJD it will take a large amount of extra money coming in each week to even start to scratch the surface of the massive drop in living standards, a handful of peanuts does not make any difference.
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
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papasmurf
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Jan 13 2015, 08:37 PM
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
You really are a Troll.
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Tigger
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM
Posted Image

Misery Index - At lowest level since Jan-05

Quote:
 
This morning’s figures show that goods (i.e., the stuff we buy) were 1pc cheaper in Christmas 2014 than Christmas 2013. Factor in services and still, UK consumer price inflation was 0.5pc in December, the (joint) lowest since records began in 2004 (pdf).


Quote:
 
‘Falling food prices – a result of intense competition among UK supermarkets – have also played a major role in the low inflation figures. Disinflationary pressures look set to continue in the first half of 2015. Retailers are still in a phase of intense competition, petrol prices should fall back further in the first half of the year and utility companies are likely to cut prices given developments in wholesale markets.’



I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





Surely isn't this deflation and bad for us?

You are very quick to criticise Europe when exactly the same thing has been going on, naturally claiming all sorts of dire consequences, so tell me why are we any different?

Easy one this, file under double standards.
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Tigger
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HIGHWAY
Jan 13 2015, 08:37 PM
papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 06:55 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM


I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





RJD it will take a large amount of extra money coming in each week to even start to scratch the surface of the massive drop in living standards, a handful of peanuts does not make any difference.
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
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HIGHWAY
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papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 08:42 PM
HIGHWAY
Jan 13 2015, 08:37 PM
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
You really are a Troll.
Telling someone there a troll for telling the truth?
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HIGHWAY
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Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
HIGHWAY
Jan 13 2015, 08:37 PM
papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 06:55 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM


I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





RJD it will take a large amount of extra money coming in each week to even start to scratch the surface of the massive drop in living standards, a handful of peanuts does not make any difference.
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Are you allowed to tell lies on this forum?
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Precisely give the massive drop in living standards he is Troll and has just proven it.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/eurostat-ppp-release/ppp-news-release.html

UK standard of living drops to sixth highest in Europe
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HIGHWAY
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papasmurf
Jan 14 2015, 08:58 AM
Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Precisely give the massive drop in living standards he is Troll and has just proven it.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/eurostat-ppp-release/ppp-news-release.html

UK standard of living drops to sixth highest in Europe
Yet another infamous ps link,,shame it's from 2011
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Tigger
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HIGHWAY
Jan 13 2015, 10:38 PM
Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
HIGHWAY
Jan 13 2015, 08:37 PM
papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 06:55 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
What drop in living standards?
The majority of people gave never had it so good in this country
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Are you allowed to tell lies on this forum?


I don't know, but humour seems acceptable.
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papasmurf
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Jan 14 2015, 09:17 AM
Yet another infamous ps link,,shame it's from 2011
Highway why don't you just admit are part of the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group, and bugger off and try and undermine someone on another forum because it is not going to work with me.
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HIGHWAY
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papasmurf
Jan 14 2015, 08:19 PM
HIGHWAY
Jan 14 2015, 09:17 AM
Yet another infamous ps link,,shame it's from 2011
Highway why don't you just admit are part of the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group, and bugger off and try and undermine someone on another forum because it is not going to work with me.
You could of course put a up to date post on, Or ,one that talks about big TVs,sky subscription going up,fancy phones.
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C-too
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM
Posted Image

Misery Index - At lowest level since Jan-05

Quote:
 
This morning’s figures show that goods (i.e., the stuff we buy) were 1pc cheaper in Christmas 2014 than Christmas 2013. Factor in services and still, UK consumer price inflation was 0.5pc in December, the (joint) lowest since records began in 2004 (pdf).


Quote:
 
‘Falling food prices – a result of intense competition among UK supermarkets – have also played a major role in the low inflation figures. Disinflationary pressures look set to continue in the first half of 2015. Retailers are still in a phase of intense competition, petrol prices should fall back further in the first half of the year and utility companies are likely to cut prices given developments in wholesale markets.’



I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





"Nothing to do with interventionist policies" ??

What do you call the lowering of incomes?

Why isn't there any references to the increase in part time employment and no contract employment when these things influence shop purchasing.

I must look up the political position of the author of the article with his "seems" things are getting better.
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Steve K
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HIGHWAY
Jan 14 2015, 09:17 AM
papasmurf
Jan 14 2015, 08:58 AM
Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Precisely give the massive drop in living standards he is Troll and has just proven it.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/eurostat-ppp-release/ppp-news-release.html

UK standard of living drops to sixth highest in Europe
Yet another infamous ps link,,shame it's from 2011
Well pointed out, how strange that PS chose such an old report when there are some recent ones available

Dec 2014: "UK standard of living rises to fourth highest in EU"

And even better

"Economists believe that 2015 will be the best year for living standards"

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7d4bf9aa-9bf2-11e4-b6cc-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3OqHHm9Ea

Quote:
 
By 2011-12, median household incomes had fallen 5 per cent below pre-crisis levels; a cap of 1 per cent on annual rises in benefits looked set to hit Labour voters disproportionately; inflation of more than 2 per cent was eroding wage rises; and the big energy companies were announcing price increases of more than 8 per cent.
Prospects now look much brighter, largely because of good luck in the form of the rapid — largely unpredicted — fall in oil prices.
With inflation now at 0.5 per cent, and likely to fall further, a 1 per cent cap on state benefit increases will not represent a real-terms cut.
The oil price fall has brought lower petrol prices, a supermarket price war has pushed down the cost of food, and on Tuesday the first of the big energy companies announced a price reduction.
Average wages have also begun to creep ahead of inflation, for the first time in five years.


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Nonsense
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RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM
Posted Image

Misery Index - At lowest level since Jan-05

Quote:
 
This morning’s figures show that goods (i.e., the stuff we buy) were 1pc cheaper in Christmas 2014 than Christmas 2013. Factor in services and still, UK consumer price inflation was 0.5pc in December, the (joint) lowest since records began in 2004 (pdf).


Quote:
 
‘Falling food prices – a result of intense competition among UK supermarkets – have also played a major role in the low inflation figures. Disinflationary pressures look set to continue in the first half of 2015. Retailers are still in a phase of intense competition, petrol prices should fall back further in the first half of the year and utility companies are likely to cut prices given developments in wholesale markets.’



I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling. All due to the capitalist market and absolutely nothing to do with interventionist politics.

Yep wages beginning to grow faster than prices too. So who is Milliband going to scare other than those who are genetically always such?





The 'Cost of Living' only means anything when prices rise, the reason for lower prices now, is two-fold, lower oil prices(NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TORIES)& because under the TORIES wage growth is\has been, at best, nominal.

The above has caused demand to 'deflate', causing the current situation, both here & elsewhere.

Also, MORE IMPORTANTLY-for this government, the 'Standard of Living' has FAILED & FALLEN under their stewardship of the economy.

At the last election, the economy was not that bad, it was the financial situation that was the problem, along with the deficit.

The inexorable rise in the deficit was caused by MASS UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION, look at the graphs on immigration, then look at graphs on government spending\revenues, the correlation is unmistakably connected to that immigration..
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Nonsense
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Pro Veritas
Jan 13 2015, 04:32 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:08 PM
I wonder if the cost of living scare stories will find much traction with Joe Public who now sees every week cheaper food in the Supermarkets, Petrol nearly £1.00 per litre and energy prices falling.
We still spend a greater %age of net income on those things than any other European nation.

Which tell me those things are still over priced, mainly driven by the artificial and dangerously high housing market.

We need a significant period of genuine deflation to drive the housing market down by about 20% to bring it down to far more sensible and so sustainable levels.

All The Best
I agree with you 100%.

Unfortunately, the government repayment of debt would be reduced from lower tax revenues`, forcing the government to pay 'real' interest on it's debt.

The same would be true for mortgage holders, which would direct the burden of debt to where it originated, no matter that much lower house prices would invoke a financial crisis of government making.

For too long, the government, in the face of being virtually bankrupt, printing £375 BILLION to keep the economy 'deflating' earlier, has encouraged more debt, rather than doing what Gordon BROWN should have forced upon the Bank of England back in 2008, of making them increase interest rates, to cause a recession, which would have been correct.

This is because a 'real' recovery would now be well in hand, without the debt overhang, which will actually get worse until the country is bankrupt in reality, with no lenders around to finance us.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Jan 14 2015, 11:41 PM
HIGHWAY
Jan 14 2015, 09:17 AM
papasmurf
Jan 14 2015, 08:58 AM
Tigger
Jan 13 2015, 10:33 PM
You are Harold MacMillan's secret love child and I claim my ten shillings.
Precisely give the massive drop in living standards he is Troll and has just proven it.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/eurostat-ppp-release/ppp-news-release.html

UK standard of living drops to sixth highest in Europe
Yet another infamous ps link,,shame it's from 2011
Well pointed out, how strange that PS chose such an old report when there are some recent ones available

Dec 2014: "UK standard of living rises to fourth highest in EU"

And even better

"Economists believe that 2015 will be the best year for living standards"

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7d4bf9aa-9bf2-11e4-b6cc-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3OqHHm9Ea

Quote:
 
By 2011-12, median household incomes had fallen 5 per cent below pre-crisis levels; a cap of 1 per cent on annual rises in benefits looked set to hit Labour voters disproportionately; inflation of more than 2 per cent was eroding wage rises; and the big energy companies were announcing price increases of more than 8 per cent.
Prospects now look much brighter, largely because of good luck in the form of the rapid — largely unpredicted — fall in oil prices.
With inflation now at 0.5 per cent, and likely to fall further, a 1 per cent cap on state benefit increases will not represent a real-terms cut.
The oil price fall has brought lower petrol prices, a supermarket price war has pushed down the cost of food, and on Tuesday the first of the big energy companies announced a price reduction.
Average wages have also begun to creep ahead of inflation, for the first time in five years.


Smoke and mirrors I'm afraid as the foundations of most of this are build on a bed of pre election sand and will quickly reverse when reality once again makes an unwelcome appearance.

"It is slightly unreal when a nations wealth grows as a result of it's citizens swapping houses for ever higher prices, but there is nothing illusory about the divisions this creates, rents have risen remorselessly with two fifths of income now swallowed up.......

The piece goes on to question the "free market" principles that have and continue to hollow out the economy.

From Friday's edition of that hotbed of left wing thinking and anti capitalist rhetoric The Financial Times........
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Average earnings up by 1.6%, more people in private sector employment than ever before, annual deficit almost halved, food and fuel prices dropping, inflation down to around 0.5% and benefits and claimants reduced. UK economic recovery is fragile but that is more down to Eurozone economic mismanagement than the Coalitions policies.

Instead of rejoicing the 'Usuals' whinge that it is the 'wrong type of recovery' or that it 'there is not really a recovery at all' that 'the poor are not benefiting'. One realises that left wing political dogma matters more to them than any recovery under a Conservative led government and that, with one or two notable exceptions, these left wing bigots would rather the nation went to hell in a hand cart than, heaven forbid,the Tories might just have got it right economically.
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papasmurf
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Major Sinic
Jan 19 2015, 02:21 PM
Average earnings up by 1.6%, more people in private sector employment than ever before, annual deficit almost halved, food and fuel prices dropping, inflation down to around 0.5% and benefits and claimants reduced. UK economic recovery is fragile but that is more down to Eurozone economic mismanagement than the Coalitions policies.

But that means nothing to the millions of people struggling every day with a choice of pay the rent or eat and/or heat or eat.
Something Cameron and Osborne cannot understand.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Jan 13 2015, 02:43 PM
RJD
Jan 13 2015, 02:38 PM


Given the time elapsed between my posting and your response it is clear that you did not even bother to check the sources.
It was a link to the Spectator not a link to the origin.
So what? If you bothered to read you would have spotted the embedded links to sources. Just another example of your shallow attitude towards detail and analysis.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Jan 19 2015, 02:26 PM
Major Sinic
Jan 19 2015, 02:21 PM
Average earnings up by 1.6%, more people in private sector employment than ever before, annual deficit almost halved, food and fuel prices dropping, inflation down to around 0.5% and benefits and claimants reduced. UK economic recovery is fragile but that is more down to Eurozone economic mismanagement than the Coalitions policies.

But that means nothing to the millions of people struggling every day with a choice of pay the rent or eat and/or heat or eat.
Something Cameron and Osborne cannot understand.
But he does, but what you and your lot fail to understand is that the State can do little or nothing to create high value adding high wage jobs. All it can do is create sensible economic conditions to encourage others. We live in a country whose economy is based on Capitalism. Considering the state of global economics then the UK is, relatively speaking, not doing too badly. The UK is even creating proportionally more jobs than Germany a country that also has a large level of employed low value adding Workers.
Relatively speaking the UK is a very generous country towards those that are doing less well than the average. It is not the shit-hole the lefties would love to paint.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 19 2015, 04:12 PM

Relatively speaking the UK is a very generous country towards those that are doing less well than the average. It is not the shit-hole the lefties would love to paint.

What worries me RJD is you believe that. For at least 18 million people it is a shit-hole up from the 12 million since Cameron became PM.
Which is understandable because all the Tories represent is the 1% who own most of the wealth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30878840

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Affa
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There can be no celebration until the standard of living is back to where it was when the coalition was formed, and even then it must be muted.
Almost five years of falling living standards, of a widening wealth gap, of average wages increases below inflation had to stop some time. And the time is now when an election is on the horizon.

Edited by Affa, Jan 19 2015, 06:53 PM.
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Rich
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papasmurf
Jan 19 2015, 02:26 PM
Major Sinic
Jan 19 2015, 02:21 PM
Average earnings up by 1.6%, more people in private sector employment than ever before, annual deficit almost halved, food and fuel prices dropping, inflation down to around 0.5% and benefits and claimants reduced. UK economic recovery is fragile but that is more down to Eurozone economic mismanagement than the Coalitions policies.

But that means nothing to the millions of people struggling every day with a choice of pay the rent or eat and/or heat or eat.
Something Cameron and Osborne cannot understand.

How would those people be faring now if Labour had won the last election? where would they have found the money to carry on where they left off? or would their policies have imploded under the sheer weight of demand?
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Steve K
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Affa
Jan 19 2015, 06:52 PM
There can be no celebration until the standard of living is back to where it was when the coalition was formed, and even then it must be muted.
Almost five years of falling living standards, of a widening wealth gap, of average wages increases below inflation had to stop some time. And the time is now when an election is on the horizon.

Seconded and I'd add ess than 1 million unemployed and on track for less than 500,000 unemployed. I won't hold my breath

Some interesting charts here http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5720/economics/inflation-stats-and-graphs/

This being an example of interest

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krugerman
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Rich
Jan 19 2015, 07:18 PM
papasmurf
Jan 19 2015, 02:26 PM
Major Sinic
Jan 19 2015, 02:21 PM
Average earnings up by 1.6%, more people in private sector employment than ever before, annual deficit almost halved, food and fuel prices dropping, inflation down to around 0.5% and benefits and claimants reduced. UK economic recovery is fragile but that is more down to Eurozone economic mismanagement than the Coalitions policies.

But that means nothing to the millions of people struggling every day with a choice of pay the rent or eat and/or heat or eat.
Something Cameron and Osborne cannot understand.

How would those people be faring now if Labour had won the last election? where would they have found the money to carry on where they left off? or would their policies have imploded under the sheer weight of demand?
Labour would not have introduced the bedroom tax, taking money away from some of the least well off in society.

Labour would not have given the richest people in Britain a tax cut

Labour would not have cut the deficit by cuts alone, and would have used tax raising measures too, especially on people with very valuable homes, on greedy developers holding onto land hoping to make vast profits, and on bank bonuses.

A Labour government would have aimed to cut the deficit over the lifetime of two Parliaments, not one, which is what this government foolishly attempted to do, and failed, and in doing so has led to the slowest recovery from a recession in history.

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papasmurf
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Rich
Jan 19 2015, 07:18 PM

How would those people be faring now if Labour had won the last election?
There would not be a million using food banks, 700000 waiting on mandatory reconsideration, 300000 waiting for a PIP decision, and 400000 disabled people badly effected by the bedroom tax.
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Steve K
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krugerman
Jan 19 2015, 07:51 PM
Labour would not have introduced the bedroom tax, taking money away from some of the least well off in society. . .
Oh yes they did, see the Local Housing Allowance changes of 2008 which brought in the spare room subsidy

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Labour would not have given the richest people in Britain a tax cut
Well on leaving office they had income tax rates for the highest earners lower than now and of course had more of the lowest earners paying income tax and of course Labour introduced tax exemptions for the wealthy so do you really want to go there?

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Labour would not have cut the deficit by cuts alone, and would have used tax raising measures too, especially on people with very valuable homes, on greedy developers holding onto land hoping to make vast profits, and on bank bonuses.
Which would have been symbolic and in some cases right but would have barely scratched the deficit.

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A Labour government would have aimed to cut the deficit over the lifetime of two Parliaments, not one, which is what this government foolishly attempted to do, and failed, and in doing so has led to the slowest recovery from a recession in history
.
Highly questionable, more likely we would have entered a debt death spiral as our bonds would have reached junk status.


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krugerman
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Steve K
Jan 19 2015, 08:11 PM
krugerman
Jan 19 2015, 07:51 PM
Labour would not have introduced the bedroom tax, taking money away from some of the least well off in society. . .
Oh yes they did, see the Local Housing Allowance changes of 2008 which brought in the spare room subsidy

Quote:
 
Labour would not have given the richest people in Britain a tax cut
Well on leaving office they had income tax rates for the highest earners lower than now and of course had more of the lowest earners paying income tax and of course Labour introduced tax exemptions for the wealthy so do you really want to go there?

Quote:
 
Labour would not have cut the deficit by cuts alone, and would have used tax raising measures too, especially on people with very valuable homes, on greedy developers holding onto land hoping to make vast profits, and on bank bonuses.
Which would have been symbolic and in some cases right but would have barely scratched the deficit.

Quote:
 
A Labour government would have aimed to cut the deficit over the lifetime of two Parliaments, not one, which is what this government foolishly attempted to do, and failed, and in doing so has led to the slowest recovery from a recession in history
.
Highly questionable, more likely we would have entered a debt death spiral as our bonds would have reached junk status.


The Local Housing Allowance introduced in 2008 had transitional arrangements, the Bedroom Tax introduced by this government has no transitional arrangements, many thousands of people are trapped, no way out, no smaller properties available, its just tough.

Many people actually gained under the Local Housing Allowance, in so much as if you found a property with a cheaper than average market rent for the area in which you lived, you could keep up to £15 the difference - this was subsequently abolished by .......yes, you guessed it, THIS government.

Bonds

In 1996 ( the final full year of the last Conservative administration ) UK ten year bond yields were 8%, at the beginning of the crisis in 2007 they were 6%, and when Britain came out of recession in 2009 they were less than 4%.

In 2010 George Osborne told the British people that unless we followed his policies, we would lose our triple A credit rating, in February 2013 the UK lost its triple A credit rating.

Tax

When we need revenue more than ever to help repair a deficit, the chancellor abolishes the 50p tax rate for the wealthiest people in the country, this is based upon the now utterly discredited and false assumption of "trickle-down", such a policy when poor people are been made to pay more is immoral and indefensible.



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Tigger
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Jan 19 2015, 02:21 PM

Instead of rejoicing the 'Usuals' whinge that it is the 'wrong type of recovery' or that it 'there is not really a recovery at all' that 'the poor are not benefiting'.
I'm afraid it's a burger flipping, lack of added value and dead end asset price inflation style recovery.

You should be old enough to recognise this sort of thing by now, we've seen it plenty of times in living memory it's just a pre election massage before the wheels come off again. As someone else might comment it Lacks Substance.

Something the blue tinged "usual's" are prepared to overlook......
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Steve K
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krugerman
Jan 19 2015, 09:56 PM
. . . In 2010 George Osborne told the British people that unless we followed his policies, we would lose our triple A credit rating, in February 2013 the UK lost its triple A credit rating. . . .
So much to challenge in your post but let's take them one at a time. And this one ^ so encompasses false logic thinking

Ask your self did Osborne say "Follow my policies and we will retain Triple A rating"

No he did not (because odious git he may be but he's not bleeding stupid). But you seem to think he said that and so lumber him with a false accusation. Now I can't prove this but had Ed Balls been chancellor with his "we must borrow more to pretend we are not in debt" policy and we would have been at junk status.

I also suggest that the reason our bonds did not fall so such in 2009 is because by then the market realised that Labour would not be in power much longer.

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Affa
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Steve K
Jan 19 2015, 10:31 PM


I also suggest that the reason our bonds did not fall so such in 2009 is because by then the market realised that Labour would not be in power much longer.



That essential thing called 'confidence', without which the banks just refuse to lend ....... is that why George O has had so much trouble getting Bankers to embrace his determination to force them to support investment in SMEs? Loss of Confidence? Or why his QE experiment earned him nothing in return? Or why the AAA rating was lost - the ratings agency are if nothing else a measure of confidence. Lost confidence so much so that he had had to resort to bribery and underwriting this housing boom?
Confidence in the future recovery is a fragile thing ........ so fragile when it is so thin nobody will touch it.
Edited by Affa, Jan 20 2015, 01:39 AM.
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