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Media debate
Topic Started: Jan 15 2015, 12:34 PM (604 Views)
rizzo
Junior Member
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I can't find any reference to this subject, so excuse me if this has already been debated.

I have to agree with Cameron to allow the Green Party a platform on the media debate, if democracy rules then the Greens should have a voice if UKIP are to speak.
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papasmurf
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rizzo
Jan 15 2015, 12:34 PM
I can't find any reference to this subject, so excuse me if this has already been debated.

I have to agree with Cameron to allow the Green Party a platform on the media debate, if democracy rules then the Greens should have a voice if UKIP are to speak.
I agree with the reasons Cameron gave at PMQs yesterday, but that does not mean I don't think he is "frit" of a TV debate.
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rizzo
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papasmurf
Jan 15 2015, 12:37 PM
rizzo
Jan 15 2015, 12:34 PM
I can't find any reference to this subject, so excuse me if this has already been debated.

I have to agree with Cameron to allow the Green Party a platform on the media debate, if democracy rules then the Greens should have a voice if UKIP are to speak.
I agree with the reasons Cameron gave at PMQs yesterday, but that does not mean I don't think he is "frit" of a TV debate.
I agree, that was a typically stupid and inane remark by Millie who only seems to be happy sniping at everything Cameron says whether it makes sense or not.
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Happy Hornet
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I think that the broadcasters are just concerned with ratings and don't really care about democracy which is why they are reluctant to have the Greens on board, they just aren't despised or controversial enough to attract viewers.
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Alberich
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Alberich
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I'm not sure what game Cameron is playing here. Since when has he been remotely interested in the green party? And if he makes a stand on their behalf, then he must surely also campaign to have the Scots Nats included; for they could well be power brokers in the next government. Nor should Milliband be so ready to accuse Cameron of being scared, for he (Cameron) is making a habit of ritually disembowelling poor old Ed at PMQ each and every time.

Why not two debates only? The first; the only one that will really matter, should be between Cameron and Milliband. The second would be for the fringe parties; and in this lot I would include the Liberals....simply because they are a pain in the ass. But Cameron purporting to be sticking up for the right of the Green party to be heard is nonsense, and no-one believes him. What IS he up to?
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Cameron is right in principle but may lose the media war over this. So so often the case that he forgets real politik.

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RJD
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I cannot see why Cameron can be seen as frit, he is just playing his politics which say UKIP will hurt the Tory message so lets let The Greens hurt Labour. Although it is a game Cameron has the right principle, if UKIP then why not The Greens or SNP or PC or all others who are considered to be significantly attractive to Joe Public? Surely it should be more about us and less about them and I for one want to hear what the Greens and others would say in such a forum.

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Affa
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I have zero interest in what the Green Party would put forward in debate.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 15 2015, 04:14 PM
I cannot see why Cameron can be seen as frit,
I can, questions from the general public.
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jaguar
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Cameron said he would support the idea of two debates, one a head-to-head encounter between him and Mr Miliband and another in which all "national parties" were represented.

So who is frit.
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Alberich
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papasmurf
Jan 15 2015, 05:21 PM
RJD
Jan 15 2015, 04:14 PM
I cannot see why Cameron can be seen as frit,
I can, questions from the general public.
Come on, Smurfy. Even if one dislikes Cameron, no-one in their right mind can ever accuse him of being scared of questions; from any source. He out- Blair's Blair in public oratory, obfuscation and flannel. In this area, he has few equals in present day politics.
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papasmurf
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Alberich
Jan 16 2015, 01:49 PM
Come on, Smurfy. Even if one dislikes Cameron, no-one in their right mind can ever accuse him of being scared of questions; from any source.
I don't think you realise, every utterance of the party leaders is going to be fact checked, using a live internet feed, it is relatively easy to ask a question that will look innocent, that will leave Cameron with a nose a foot long.
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somersetli
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somersetli
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I cannot think why anybody would be bothered to watch this debate whoever is on it or not.
It will just be the same old "yah boo" political tripe that these programmes always produce.

And most certainly any questions that pop up will have been vetted before the programme starts.
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papasmurf
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somersetli
Jan 16 2015, 02:52 PM
I cannot think why anybody would be bothered to watch this debate whoever is on it or not.
20 million people wanted to get lied to last time and look how that has ended up. I can't see any reason to watch the debate either.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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somersetli
Jan 16 2015, 02:52 PM
I cannot think why anybody would be bothered to watch this debate whoever is on it or not.
It will just be the same old "yah boo" political tripe that these programmes always produce.

And most certainly any questions that pop up will have been vetted before the programme starts.
Well I for one would even pay money to see Cameron v Farage face to face.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jan 16 2015, 03:01 PM
Well I for one would even pay money to see Cameron v Farage face to face.
I have no desire to watch them engaging in a lying contest.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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papasmurf
Jan 16 2015, 03:04 PM
Steve K
Jan 16 2015, 03:01 PM
Well I for one would even pay money to see Cameron v Farage face to face.
I have no desire to watch them engaging in a lying contest.
Usual challenge: find an example of Cameron lying (and to be clear in the English language that means making a false statement knowing at the time that the statement was false)

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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jan 16 2015, 03:11 PM
Usual challenge: find an example of Cameron lying (and to be clear in the English language that means making a false statement knowing at the time that the statement was false)

How about getting immigration down to the tens of thousands when he knew that could not be done.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Jan 16 2015, 04:02 PM
Steve K
Jan 16 2015, 03:11 PM
Usual challenge: find an example of Cameron lying (and to be clear in the English language that means making a false statement knowing at the time that the statement was false)

How about getting immigration down to the tens of thousands when he knew that could not be done.
Nah, he thought wrong that's all

Farage tells lies, Cameron gets too optimistic, IDS is just an arrogant simpleton.
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Affa
Senior Member
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If there could be a suspicion that the questions asked could be moderated by the programmers to make it easy for the Establishment leaders, Farage will wreck that idea.
Regardless of how the presenter puts the questions Farage will make certain he puts them ALL on the spot.

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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Affa
Jan 16 2015, 06:09 PM
If there could be a suspicion that the questions asked could be moderated by the programmers to make it easy for the Establishment leaders, Farage will wreck that idea.
Regardless of how the presenter puts the questions Farage will make certain he puts them ALL on the spot.

Yes Farage will really floor them with his "do you know that 105% of Romanians are gay?" or even that "Do you know it's not racist to call Thai's Ting Tongs"

Any decent leader will shred the serially ill briefed and make up stats on the fly Farage, that Clegg so failed to showed us so much about Clegg's lack of ability.
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Deleted User
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Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jan 16 2015, 08:53 PM


Any decent leader will shred the serially ill briefed and make up stats on the fly
Any leader making up stats on the fly will get shot down in flames during the debate by whoever is in charge of it. Fullfact are going to be checking any "data" used in real time.
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Affa
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It is not wise to heed anyones stats, not even the ONS.
Always view them with scepticism and be aware of exactly what the figures are telling you and not to the spin that is put on them.

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Cymru
Alt-Right
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I think the Greens should be represented in the leaders' debates as they have parliamentary representation.

Other parties like Plaid Cymru, the SNP and DUP also have parliamentary representation too but unlike the Greens these parties are purely regional in outlook and are represented in region-specific leaders' debates.

Cameron's stance on this whole issue however is disingenuous. His support for the inclusion of the Greens has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with delaying the debate so as to avoid sharing a stage with Farage, or at the least mitigating the damage he would receive in the debate versus Farage by having Ed Miliband undermined by the left-wing Greens.
Edited by Cymru, Jan 16 2015, 10:38 PM.
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Affa
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I read one article (a Liberal MP) where in his view it is not only Farage that Cameron wishes to avoid. He named Ed Miliband too as someone quite capable of embarrassing the PM ..... he does have a lot of weapons it seems now the the 'will do boy' has become a can't do failure.

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Tigger
Senior Member
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I long for politics with substance instead of the pathetic circus that in present day party politics, there is more intelligent debate on here* than in Westminster or in much of the dire press. The only advantage I can see in getting all the main party leaders in one room at the same time is that a stray asteroid would do us all a favour.

*40% of the time.

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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:36 PM
I long for politics with substance instead of the pathetic circus that in present day party politics, there is more intelligent debate on here* than in Westminster or in much of the dire press. The only advantage I can see in getting all the main party leaders in one room at the same time is that a stray asteroid would do us all a favour.

*40% of the time.

You're online 60% of the time you say? ;-)



(well I mucked that jibe up by getting me offs and ons confumbled didn't I. Corrected now but too late)
Edited by Steve K, Jan 17 2015, 09:24 AM.
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papasmurf
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Affa
Jan 16 2015, 10:14 PM
It is not wise to heed anyones stats, not even the ONS.
Always view them with scepticism and be aware of exactly what the figures are telling you and not to the spin that is put on them.

Personally I try and find the original data sets before anyone has nobbled them. Which is why I have sometimes paid for copies direct from the origin, and there are often subtle differences between those and the version the DWP publishes, that change the entire conclusion.
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:36 PM
The only advantage I can see in getting all the main party leaders in one room at the same time is that a stray asteroid would do us all a favour.



One of these could come in handy:-

Posted Image
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Rich
Senior Member
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gansao
Jan 16 2015, 09:25 PM
Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
Does anyone actually know what the green party stands for, or even the lib dems for that matter? they seem to be so vague regarding direction and policy making.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Jan 16 2015, 10:42 PM
Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:36 PM
The only advantage I can see in getting all the main party leaders in one room at the same time is that a stray asteroid would do us all a favour.



One of these could come in handy:-

Posted Image
Get a few more, best be safe than sorry. ;-)
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Rich
Jan 16 2015, 10:43 PM
gansao
Jan 16 2015, 09:25 PM
Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
Does anyone actually know what the green party stands for, or even the lib dems for that matter? they seem to be so vague regarding direction and policy making.
You could always check their respective websites instead of getting second hand information off of here.

Works for me.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:47 PM
Rich
Jan 16 2015, 10:43 PM
gansao
Jan 16 2015, 09:25 PM
Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
Does anyone actually know what the green party stands for, or even the lib dems for that matter? they seem to be so vague regarding direction and policy making.
You could always check their respective websites instead of getting second hand information off of here.

Works for me.

That's true enough as I would certainly not take your word for gospel.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:46 PM
Get a few more, best be safe than sorry. ;-)
One would be sufficient.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Rich
Jan 16 2015, 10:49 PM
Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:47 PM
Rich
Jan 16 2015, 10:43 PM
gansao
Jan 16 2015, 09:25 PM
Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
Does anyone actually know what the green party stands for, or even the lib dems for that matter? they seem to be so vague regarding direction and policy making.
You could always check their respective websites instead of getting second hand information off of here.

Works for me.

That's true enough as I would certainly not take your word for gospel.
You just did. ;-)
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Alberich
Jan 15 2015, 12:58 PM
I'm not sure what game Cameron is playing here. Since when has he been remotely interested in the green party? And if he makes a stand on their behalf, then he must surely also campaign to have the Scots Nats included; for they could well be power brokers in the next government. Nor should Milliband be so ready to accuse Cameron of being scared, for he (Cameron) is making a habit of ritually disembowelling poor old Ed at PMQ each and every time.

Why not two debates only? The first; the only one that will really matter, should be between Cameron and Milliband. The second would be for the fringe parties; and in this lot I would include the Liberals....simply because they are a pain in the ass. But Cameron purporting to be sticking up for the right of the Green party to be heard is nonsense, and no-one believes him. What IS he up to?
What is he up to ?

I am not sure but I suspect he will do ANYTHING to avoid going on tv and oftoss's definition of the greens as a minority party not entitled to airtime is a godsend.

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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Tigger
Jan 16 2015, 10:47 PM
Rich
Jan 16 2015, 10:43 PM
gansao
Jan 16 2015, 09:25 PM
Personally I would appreciate a debate where the Green party was included.
Does anyone actually know what the green party stands for, or even the lib dems for that matter? they seem to be so vague regarding direction and policy making.
You could always check their respective websites instead of getting second hand information off of here.

Works for me.
You mean like it worked for all those lib dem voters who voted against tuition fees in 2010 ?
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krugerman
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I cannot make my mind up on this one

Surely once a general election is called, all parties who stand are equal, it cannot possibly be based entirely upon how many seats a particular party has in the House of Commons, if it was, then the Conservatives and Labour would have a permanent unfair advantage over smaller parties.

If the English Democrats or Monster Raving Loony Party have as many candidates as the Greens, UKIP or the Labour Party, then surely they must have equal coverage, the election campaign starts from the begining again - all parties equal.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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krugerman
Jan 17 2015, 11:51 AM
I cannot make my mind up on this one

Surely once a general election is called, all parties who stand are equal, it cannot possibly be based entirely upon how many seats a particular party has in the House of Commons, if it was, then the Conservatives and Labour would have a permanent unfair advantage over smaller parties.

If the English Democrats or Monster Raving Loony Party have as many candidates as the Greens, UKIP or the Labour Party, then surely they must have equal coverage, the election campaign starts from the begining again - all parties equal.
I cannot believe you actually think this.

In the past, media access has ALWAYS been granted on the basis of the number of seats contested and yes, wake up and smell the coffee, the biggest parties have always had "unfair" advantages over the smaller ones. Why do you think the BNP became so skilled at internet streamed video ?

The playing field is a lot more level these days in the sense that the mainstream media broadcast is obsolete and the battle for the hearts and minds will be fought in the annals of arsebook and the twatterverse and through the medium of internet ads and spartphone streamed video.

The "debates" are a distraction, are entirely controlled by the broadcaster and are of limited worth. I KNOW I was one of the "public" chosen to put a question to Peter Hain, Ieuan Wyn Jones, Kirsty Williams and Cheryl Gillan in 2010. They won't make that mistake again.



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