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| Topic Started: Jan 23 2015, 04:08 PM (573 Views) | |
| RJD | Jan 23 2015, 04:08 PM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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It might be a little early to stake that claim, but with; Brits spending more in shops in 2014 than ever before, more people in work than ever, even better than the USA. British businesses doing better with ROCE back up to ~12%. Prices in shops falling, inflation down, even pay is now nudging upwards. Mortgages on properties the cheapest ever and the cost of money likely to stay low for a very long time. I wonder how long it will be before we here that claim? |
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| Steve K | Jan 24 2015, 07:43 PM Post #41 |
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Once and future cynic
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Perhaps you should reread what you wrote Privatise evaded tax collection on a no cure no pay 1/2% of tax recovered with a carte blanche no questions asked as to method. The Kray brothers would be smiling were they not already dead |
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| Affa | Jan 24 2015, 10:03 PM Post #42 |
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Senior Member
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The estimate last year was that £80bn was lost through tax evasion .... if £50bn is deemed a significant amount, then Tax Evasion can clearly be deemed as wrecking the economy. But let's blame Public sector workers, the Unions, Benefit cheats instead - does it not register that if the resources currently invested in wrestling with the afore mentioned 'problems' were all directed towards the one problem of tax evasion, then the results just might mean the investment bears some fruit, some worthwhile returns. |
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| Steve K | Jan 24 2015, 11:04 PM Post #43 |
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Once and future cynic
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No the estimate for the UK for tax evasion was ~£4B of a total tax gap of £34B. Which banana republic were you referring to? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf |
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| Rich | Jan 25 2015, 12:02 AM Post #44 |
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Steve, you have forgotten to equate in the unknown quantity of prostitution and drug dealing as evidenced by the all knowing Brussels brain trust. |
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| Steve K | Jan 25 2015, 12:35 AM Post #45 |
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Once and future cynic
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No I haven't |
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| Rich | Jan 25 2015, 01:14 AM Post #46 |
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in which case you should immediately apply for the position of chancellor of the exchequer as you obviously know more than him. |
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| Lewis | Jan 25 2015, 08:57 AM Post #47 |
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Well that's the fairy tale representation by the drone from Tory Central Office. What's the reality: Families have lost more than £1100+ since 2010. Foodbanks are booming (about the only thing that is) Electricity and gas bills up over 35% since 2010 Rail fares up by 25% since 2010 ZHC contracts becoming the norm Savings interest rates are abysmal (reason I buy gold rather than rely on shares and piss poor savings rates) As regards shops Tesco, Morrisons and Sanbury's have all reported poor results |
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 09:13 AM Post #48 |
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Can you explain what you are on about? Why would the police need to be involved in what is a carte blanche operation? The tax evaders of many £Billions each is public known. That HMRC has not the resources to collect the money is down to George Osborne. |
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| Steve K | Jan 25 2015, 11:33 AM Post #49 |
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Once and future cynic
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No I just read the key parts of the link that I posted, clearly you hadn't. Ho hum |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 12:36 PM Post #50 |
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Not banana, though if I think about it you could be right - it is the UK http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/09/22/new-report-the-tax-gap-is-119-4-billion-and-rising/
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| Steve K | Jan 25 2015, 12:57 PM Post #51 |
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Once and future cynic
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Seems to be a mix of guesswork and misuse of terms Tax evasion has a defined meaning yet he applies it to the whole tax gap and then he adds in those guesses and further guesses that they will increase every year I'll stick with the HMRC data thanks |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 01:44 PM Post #52 |
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Yeah Steve; you stick with guys that are responsible for this unclaimed tax - I'm not as confident as you that they do not over value the work they do or correctly estimate the amount they fail to recover. I was not suggesting for a minute that this whole sum is recoverable, but that £billions of it are.
"Cuts Cost Money - lots of it" Edited by Affa, Jan 25 2015, 01:49 PM.
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 04:16 PM Post #53 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Still no idea what the system is. |
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 04:20 PM Post #54 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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What resources are required? certainly low pay grade Jobs-worthies pushing paper around are not going to catch these international criminals. Osborne knows that without international cooperation then he has no chance of collecting much. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 04:24 PM Post #55 |
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As they saying goes, " a few good men" (might need a few good women as well for operational reasons.) |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 04:25 PM Post #56 |
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Cutting HMRC staff by a third is not 'tackling tax evasion'? It is allowing for it to increase. "Cuts Cost Money - lots of it" |
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 04:26 PM Post #57 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Me too. The truth is that very often individuals and/or HMRC for that matter do not know whether or not there has been a transgression until a Court of Law decides. HMRC is the only body that details the basis of it's analysis and focusses on the UK, whether the quanta is marginally smaller or greater is interesting but not that relevant what is is what is legitimately collectable as additional tax revenue. Here, quite rightly, HMRC concentrates on the low hanging more easily collectable fruit. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 04:32 PM Post #58 |
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Well he could insist that any company trading here has it's tax base here as well so the profits and income generated is also taxed here at the going rate, I can't imagine the likes of Tesco or any other large domestic company shifting all it's stores or operations out of the country can you? The truth is despite your weak excuse is Osborne has no intention of doing anything except talking tough while tickling the bollocks of these businesses, I wonder what would happen if I tried to shift my tax base to say the BVI or Gibraltar..........? |
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 04:33 PM Post #59 |
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Quite rightly? HMRC concentrating on low hanging fruit is recovered next to stuff all. They would only need to concentrate on just one of the less than one hundred major tax evaders to get far more evaded tax than the do now by a very big margin. |
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 04:37 PM Post #60 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Clearly you know little about the matter. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 04:37 PM Post #61 |
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Here is some low fruit for you to digest. HMRC was criticised recently for going after ebay sellers who it suspected of evading assorted taxes but did not bother going after ebay itself which pays virtually no corporation tax on it's UK operations! Most of it's income goes straight to Switzerland. File under kick the shit out of the little guys but let the big boys off scot free. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 04:39 PM Post #62 |
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It has become very obvious over the years RJD it is you who knows very little about the matter. |
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 04:53 PM Post #63 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tig: Well he could insist that any company trading here has it's tax base here as well so the profits and income generated is also taxed here at the going rate, I can't imagine the likes of Tesco or any other large domestic company shifting all it's stores or operations out of the country can you? You need to check the Law wrt to domicility for the purposes of taxation. If you are domicile UK then you have an obligation to declare all earnings from all sources. As for companies that domicility test depends where they have registered the company. Clearly companies, quiet rightly, choose their domicility in order to minimise the burden of taxes. Governments could, if the EU allowed, levy purchase taxes or even a pro-rata to sales volumes tax on declared company profits. This discussion is currently under way, but take care as the outcome might be that the likes of Amazon pay more to UK Tax Coffers, but the overall take is reduced as UK registered companies also make profits on trade that takes place elsewhere. There is no simple solution here and international cooperation is vital. Tig: The truth is despite your weak excuse is Osborne has no intention of doing anything except talking tough while tickling the bollocks of these businesses, I wonder what would happen if I tried to shift my tax base to say the BVI or Gibraltar..........? Well that's just your bigoted opinion, the truth is that Osborne with the HMRC has done more in the last 4 years that was achieved in the last 40 in order to close down loop-holes. That said if you think it is easy to collect such they I suggest you offer your services to HMRC as they have been struggling with the problems associated with identifying funds hidden from view outside of the UK for donkeys years. Maybe you can team up with that other armchair expert on this Forum and form a team, clearly as it will for you be easy pickings you will accept payment only on results. You could be a multi-millionaire before the years out. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 05:06 PM Post #64 |
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Yes we all know the law and it needs changing doesn't it? It's no good just wringing your arthiritc hands and pretending it's everyone else's fault that we can't act, how about Osborne starts the ball rolling and see what other do? You of course despite your lame evasions know full well this is never going to happen. And as for your claims that Osborne is clamping down of tax mitigation I suggest you cancel you subscription to Saga and instead spend the money on the Economist and wait for it, Private Eye. It is a matter of public record that the unit within HMRC tasked with going after corporate tax avoidance has had it's staff cut, perhaps they should privatise that as well? File under I've closed my eyes and I can't see anything. Edited by Tigger, Jan 25 2015, 05:08 PM.
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 05:28 PM Post #65 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tig: Yes we all know the law and it needs changing doesn't it? With your expertise you should be able to declare what the change should be. Do it. Tig: It's no good just wringing your arthiritc hands and pretending it's everyone else's fault that we can't act, how about Osborne starts the ball rolling and see what other do? You of course despite your lame evasions know full well this is never going to happen. I see no evasions and I prefer that the arthritis exists in my hands rather than like yourself in your head. The situation is what it is. Tig: And as for your claims that Osborne is clamping down of tax mitigation I suggest you cancel you subscription to Saga and instead spend the money on the Economist and wait for it, Private Eye. It is a matter of public record that the unit within HMRC tasked with going after corporate tax avoidance has had it's staff cut, perhaps they should privatise that as well? Clearly you do not keep yourself up to date. Osborne can do better, but compared with the last lot at least he tries. Tig: File under I've closed my eyes and I can't see anything. At last you recognise your problem, one of blind ignorance. You are a type which only believes in numbers of heads in seats or sizes of budgets spent or wasted as you have no time for a detailed understanding of how best to close down such loop-holes or catch wrong doers. A few experienced Lawyers and Accountants can achieve a lot more than a legion of desk-jockies pushing around scrits of paper. You really are all mouth and no trousers. I will put you forward as this forums "ignorant gob of the year 2014". |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 05:49 PM Post #66 |
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You are still having trouble with reading what other's have already said aren't you? For the second time, if you do the bulk of your trade here you MUST base your tax affairs here as well, no if's no buts. And let me repeat the logic behind this one more time just in case it did not sink in the first time around, you cannot offshore the origins of this money, ie UK retail sales, services and products produced here MUST BE SUBJECT TO LOCAL TAXES and not whipped away elsewhere only to be brought back in under a different financial label thus avoiding those local taxes. And if this government was genuinely intent on clamping down on offshoring and tax mitigation it would actually start going after those perpetrating it instead or just pretending to do it and issuing sound bites for dunderheads like you to parrot back at the rest of us! |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 05:55 PM Post #67 |
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From an earlier post (this thread)
# http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap2014.pdf
Edited by Affa, Jan 25 2015, 06:03 PM.
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 06:07 PM Post #68 |
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Don't start bringing facts, links and logic to the debate you'll scare off the "Usual!"
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| johnofgwent | Jan 25 2015, 06:20 PM Post #69 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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What PS said was LARGE companies never do their share of training and skilling the workforce it is always left to small ones. I would dispute that it was ALWAYS that way, my evidence for that being that both my brothers left school at 16 and went straight into work as apprentices one with british steel the other with british telecom, and I was witness to the large number of their fellow employees at "night school" in "Llandaff Tech" getting the City and Guilds in this and that under their belt as part of their apprenticeship. I have seen first hand how large companies in the sectors I have worked in over the last ten to fifteen years do piss all to train people and merely poach headhunt or import from abroad. I have seen how SME's actually bother to train their people. The "little places" I have done work for over the past twenty years INVARIABLY have more senior people who "came up through the ranks" than the large ones. I'm now working full time for a company that I helped out on contract a year or so ago. It is a place where the atmosphere is a thousand times happier, friendlier and in which i feel far more valued than the major software house shithole I had the stupidity to go and work for after the bank job went the way the fucking bankers should all have. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 06:20 PM Post #70 |
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A simple measure would be to introduce a surcharge on any company that is registered abroad unless they record UK profits as a UK tax liability. Giving UK registered companies an advantage in the Market. And if they f off, no problem, the market for energy remains to be filled. It would make energy suppliers look again ...... and escape only if they pay UK tax on UK profits. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 06:28 PM Post #71 |
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Spot on. Thirty odd years ago most large firms did train their staff as they could reasonably expect these skilled people to stick around, I even worked for one back then, but a sea change took place during the eighties and short termism and the almost anal obsession with the share price counted for everything, the end result was cost cutting to boost short term profits and that meant fewer apprentices and less folks sent to college. |
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I agree with most of that ^ I may need to take a lie down.
2:31 PM Jul 11