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| The big swing: voters who are changing lanes | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 24 2015, 09:44 AM (575 Views) | |
| Cymru | Jan 24 2015, 09:44 AM Post #1 |
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Alt-Right
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/-sp-big-swing-voters-changing-lanes I found this to be most informative. Edited by Cymru, Jan 24 2015, 09:44 AM.
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 05:14 PM Post #41 |
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Senior Member
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The economy is so out of kilter especially now what with £374bn floating about to further boost asset and share prices that the mere hint of taxing the bottom end of society even more would result in millions homeless and unable to feed themselves, despite most actually holding down a job! Subsidizing these poorer people is NOT the answer, bringing down the cost of living is, hence why the top end should have the subsidy carpet whipped out from under it's feet, we can't afford them for much longer! |
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| RJD | Jan 25 2015, 05:15 PM Post #42 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Italy has PR. How many Governments has Italy had since WW2? Germany has PR. How many coalition Governments has Germany had since WW2. Trouble with coalitions is that a Manifesto that nobody voted for gets stitched up behind closed doors post the GE. Trouble is that PR breaks the link between constituents and their representative. PR makes individual MPs more a cog in the Party Political Machine not less and will kill of independent thinkers. PR will not make our economy fitter, more dynamic, healthier and create more jobs, but give Politicians even more smoke to fog up our perspective on how well or otherwise they are doing. I would have thought the last 4 years of coalition would be a lesson. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 05:40 PM Post #43 |
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Senior Member
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This that we now have is to me where the State Authority has exceeded its powers and has made Westminster virtually impotent on the major issues - issues like whether to invade Iraq and on economic reforms that prevent the wealth gap widening still further e.g. A below average IQ student will know that a system where wealth generated is so badly dispersed that 54% of that wealth goes to the Richest 10% of the population is never right. We have that situation because it is that 10% (their money and influence) that the State represents. It is that imbalance which PR has the potential to reverse, to make for a real Democracy. I could even argue that if Corporate business did not have it so easy to make huge bucks it might just try harder, put in more investment, in order to try to maintain its earnings - an impetus to do more to win back any lost revenues due to having lost out to the trickle down we don't see now ...... that money is still in the system, in consumer's pockets, and is a temptation for business to win back. So yes, an economic stimulus as well - more opportunities, more jobs, more business. I assume you still believe in Democracy? Edited by Affa, Jan 25 2015, 05:48 PM.
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| C-too | Jan 25 2015, 05:44 PM Post #44 |
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Honourable Member
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In order to put my post in context you need to read the post I was replying to. |
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| johnofgwent | Jan 25 2015, 06:04 PM Post #45 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I think they are not without blame to some degree. The country I was born into had severe employment shortages which it "fixed" by resorting to The Windrush. But the country I was born into gave any child whose mother had one foot on british soil when her waters broke a british passport, simply by virtue of being born here, and it was not until 1971 that Ted Heath changed that. The country in which I became an adult had opportunities for employment across all skills from menial to professional. The left will no doubt beat its breast about the inequality, the feminist will shriek and squeal about the treatment of women, the lesbian and the gay will howl in rage at the way the education minister declared there as no place for the acceptance of homosexuality as normal in our schools, but the fact was the kids that left my secondary school aged 16 in the summer of 1974 and did not return with me to study A levels ALL got jobs even if they were hairdressing or menial office clerical, and MOST of the boys who left that year aged 16 went into a factory or the like as an apprentice and came out some years later as a craftsman. My youngest brother, seven years my junior, who left school age 16 the same year I got chucked outof the university research job thanks to maggie fucking thatcher, managed to get his arse into what was about to be BT as an apprentice telephone engineer and now he earns half as much again as I do and lives in a house twice the size of mine. But the country and its people have been systematically raped and pillaged for the past fifteen years at least. Populations have been deliberately swollen to the point where the struggle for gainful work is a fight to the death, and Gordon Brown demonstrated what he really thought of any white person who worried that their grandchildren would not have a job and the sort of opportunity to better themselves that they themselves had. This is now a country where almost all of our grandchildren - if we are lucky enough to have any given the abominable cost of living and "cost" of "childcare" - will be substantially poorer than their grandparents at every stage of their lives. And for that I blame the bastards that have run the place into the ground not just for the past five years but the past twenty. Thirty if you include the damage done in not catering for the needs of the country to home grow its oen professionals and skilled people, for it is a fact that we were enticing others from abroad christ knows how many years ago and allowing them to stay here and take the high paid work instead of getting our own people properly educated and properly trained. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 06:31 PM Post #46 |
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Senior Member
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All because business doesn't want to pay for education and skills training - not by doing any itself (apprenticeships) or through taxation towards Government costs. And we have had governments that have been complicit in business evading training costs. Who do they serve? They serve themselves! Edited by Affa, Jan 25 2015, 06:32 PM.
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 06:50 PM Post #47 |
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What are you on about RJD? (Seriously.) I don't call a million benefit sanctions on mainly vulnerable people a year "protecting welfare benefits" and neither if 50% of those needing food banks "protecting welfare benefits." You won't bother listening to this from Radio 4 earlier but the DWP and DWP ministers are absolute bastards:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04yk7h6 Benefit sanctions are supposed to be part of a system helping people back to work. But critics say they penalise the vulnerable and are among the reasons for the growing use of food banks. So how fair is the Government's system of withholding state payments for those who don't comply with welfare rules? Allan Urry hears from whistleblowers who allege some JobCentrePlus staff are setting claimants up to fail in order to meet internal performance targets. Why did a recovering amputee lose his benefits because he didn't answer the phone? Reporter: Allan Urry Producer: Nicola Dowling. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 06:51 PM Post #48 |
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Senior Member
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So what would work then? You've some into detail about the pitfalls that apparently beset on the face of if far more equitable systems. Or are you as I suspect once again bogged down in thinking that the only thing that works is a Tory government with a huge majority? That being of course the least likely result in any future general election. |
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| somersetli | Jan 25 2015, 07:03 PM Post #49 |
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somersetli
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I have a feeling that a "huge majority" will be an unlikely result for any party in future General Elections. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 07:33 PM Post #50 |
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Senior Member
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An interesting pov. If the Tories and George are still ruinning (no typo) the show after May is past, and the austerity he promises follows on, then Labour will end 2020 with a massive majority - Tories in office always turn floaters and sometimes their own voters into Labour voters. Working against this is a peculiarity - as people become accustomed to a lower standard of living, over time that lower standard becomes the norm. Drive living standards right down, and very soon even a modest improvement feels like and is regarded as progress. (as growth). Ask anybody under the age of forty-five what it was like growing up in the eighties and they will tell you it was a great time - we all look back on our youth as the best time ever. They have never known full employment, apprenticeships, a time when they were wanted and treat as valued assets instead of fodder. And not knowing it means they do not miss it, they know no better ...... and so it is that those in their teens today will grow up believing this is the 'best time ever'. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 07:45 PM Post #51 |
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Senior Member
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Good. Tory pollster Lord Ashcroft reported a couple of weeks ago (if he is to be believed that is) that both main parties had less than 30% support for the first time ever. Not that anything will change one jot in Westminster in response to the apathy that now greets politics in especially England. |
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| Tigger | Jan 26 2015, 05:54 PM Post #52 |
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Senior Member
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It would seem that according to a BBC/Populous poll (so it might not be entirely neutral) that the NHS is the number one concern among voters. This will surely hurt right wing parties and especially the Tories who did not even make it one of their six top priorities, a bit of an own goal for the blue team methinks. And UKIP's assorted swivel eyed loons have hardly covered themselves with glory here either. |
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| disgruntled porker | Jan 26 2015, 06:42 PM Post #53 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Or even time to put their long range memory hats on and realise why the previous tory administration got the biggest political arse kicking of all time. |
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| disgruntled porker | Jan 26 2015, 06:46 PM Post #54 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Gravylovers party? |
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| Lewis | Jan 26 2015, 07:21 PM Post #55 |
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Senior Member
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Well just about any alternative, even UKIP would be a radical improvement, on the incompetents. |
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| C-too | Jan 26 2015, 07:39 PM Post #56 |
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Honourable Member
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I guess no one should dispute that ---- BUT ---- first they must lay down all of their political bias and get themselves fully and objectively informed. I suspect that would rule out people like yourself. |
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| somersetli | Jan 26 2015, 08:14 PM Post #57 |
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somersetli
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I suspect that would rule out everybody! Having a political bias is what gets people to vote for one party or another. If you remove that bias there would be no faction to vote for. The moment you gather all the objective information that enables you to decide who to vote for, that makes you biased to particular entity. |
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| Nonsense | Jan 29 2015, 03:18 PM Post #58 |
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Regular Member
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"The thought that the British people are willing be subjugated and press-ganged into doing jobs that they don't want by removing immigrants is nonsense". I think that it must be pretty obvious, at least to me it is, that most 'British people' are 'subjugated', as little has changed, apart from regression to an earlier time in the thinking of the economic\political elite within the country. British people are not 'press-ganged' into work, rather, they have 'sanctions' applied to achieve the desired effect. IMHO it comes back to the sense of 'entitlement' that school, college or university students have when leaving such places. STOP ALL benefits to ALL migrants for all the time they are here , ditto to students, college, university or school-leavers, NO benefits.. period. STOP giving 'citizenship' to migrants. When these are enacted, we shall see the immediate positive effect on our own youngsters in their attitudes. As an 'old' person, I am 'angry' at what this country has become, it's young have been 'brain-washed' into a 'liberal'-zero responsibility' mentality that requires radical 'treatment' to correct. My combined pensions would not pay a fraction of anyone's rent nowadays, that is WRONG, it's down to politics, allowing hyper inflation in the housing market, whilst at the same time allowing high inflation to devalue pensioners incomes. Years ago, the pensioner could pay his\her rent & other things, that's not so today, people are so ignorant that they do not know when they are being played for fools by politicians, but these things always reveal themselves. No longer do the Labour Party care for pensioners & the cost of living for them just the better off ones. Edited by Nonsense, Jan 29 2015, 03:19 PM.
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| RJD | Jan 29 2015, 06:47 PM Post #59 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Just claiming that PR is no universal solution to anything. I prefer a FPTP system based on a Manifesto and then can judge if the Gov. performed according to it's promises. As for the Tories the current system provides them with a built in disadvantage. Try to remember, if you can, that we have just experienced a NL Gov. from 1997 to 2010 with a good working majority. I do not see that PR enhances our democracy in any way, in fact I claim the reverse is true as it cements in Place-men Politicians whose role is to do whatever the Party Machine dictate, if they don't well then they will be left off lists. I also dislike and distrust the concept that a Political Party must exist. I prefer that if Joe Public does not support them with his votes and his donations then let them wither in the vine. PR and State funding of the political process only serves to sustain those that have long lost the trust of Joe Public. |
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2:31 PM Jul 11