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| Old age pensions | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 25 2015, 08:35 PM (905 Views) | |
| Tytoalba | Jan 25 2015, 08:35 PM Post #1 |
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Read on and pass on: Dear Prime Minister The RT. Hon. David Cameron, MP. I wish to ask you a Question:- "Is This True?" I refer to the Pension Reality Check. Are you aware of the following ? The British Government provides the following financial assistance:- BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER (bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and National Insurance contributions to the British Government all their working life) Weekly allowance: £106.00? IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN (No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever) Weekly allowance: £250.00 BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Weekly Spouse Allowance: £25.00? ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Weekly Spouse Allowance: £225.00 BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £0.00? ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £100.00 A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000? ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900 Please read all and then forward to all your contacts so that we can lobby for a decent state pension. After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years. Sad isn't it? Surely it's about time we put our own people first. Please have the guts to forward this. I JUST DID! |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 08:39 PM Post #2 |
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Most of that is completely untrue! To many gullible and senile right wing old codgers about. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 08:47 PM Post #3 |
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'o' I've given you an 'o' not an '0'. Edited by Affa, Jan 25 2015, 08:48 PM.
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| papasmurf | Jan 25 2015, 08:57 PM Post #4 |
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No. |
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| Steve K | Jan 25 2015, 09:37 PM Post #5 |
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Once and future cynic
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It was posted on the old forum and shredded once before http://www.ukdebate.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=35636.0 It dates from c 2012 when even then it was so obviously a load of bollocks I really recommend the OP tries googling a key part of the text of something that appears to them to be so good they must post it up for all to see - it usually reveals the false status. And also petitions the mods to have the thread removed to save being an object of mirth. Edited by Steve K, Jan 25 2015, 09:38 PM.
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| ranger121 | Jan 25 2015, 09:50 PM Post #6 |
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This has been circulating the net for millennia. Total bollocks. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 25 2015, 11:09 PM Post #7 |
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What is uniquely right wing about seeking social and economic justice for our OAPs? Surely there are enough votes in the offing from our OAPs for even Labour to at least grant them equal consideration to 'Johny Foreigner'? If these figures are untrue then set us 'gullible and senile right wing old codgers' straight by providing the correct ones; with links of course!! We might have forgotten the answer by tomorrow but if you provide the written evidence we can always remind ourselves. Oh Bugger! dribbling again! |
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| Steve K | Jan 25 2015, 11:15 PM Post #8 |
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Once and future cynic
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You mean pay them the pension their contributions have actually paid for? IE about half what they get now. I really suggest you don't stand in your local supermarket car park and shout out that as a policy. Death by dismemberment is so ghastly. |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2015, 11:16 PM Post #9 |
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It's the xenophobia and self pity that I found irritating, a sob story intended for the hard of thinking in my opinion. Oh, and Sterident is on special offer at the Paki shop this week so stock up! |
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| Tytoalba | Jan 25 2015, 11:34 PM Post #10 |
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I most is untrue, which parts are true? It was sent to me by acquaintances and I just passed it on as requested. Just thought the true parts were more food for thought. |
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| Affa | Jan 25 2015, 11:35 PM Post #11 |
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I made a vow of never spending money in a Paki shop 14 years ago, and thus far have kept to it. Oh; and I have my own teeth as yet ..... have an appointment for a filling next month. I too would like to know the correct figures ... last time I looked, way back when Blair was PM, the sums for asylum seekers were paltry. |
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| Tytoalba | Jan 26 2015, 10:45 AM Post #12 |
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Are you having them done on the NHS or is it a private appointment with cost up front? Whichever it is , I think the NHS should run on the same lines as the NHS dental service, with an upfront charge depending on our needs. Could easily apply to the General Practitioners service Just remember that by 2020, the NHS will need another £30 billion to maintain the service at the current level, but it seems that no political party is prepared to face the issue except UKIP, but for the other parties it would be the kiss of death in an election, for too many of the electorate expect something for nothing for themselves. BTW Sterident is good for cleaning out saucepans when the food gets burnt. <Like teeth an overnight soak is all it needs. |
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| RJD | Jan 26 2015, 01:02 PM Post #13 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I would get an increase. |
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| RJD | Jan 26 2015, 01:12 PM Post #14 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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The NHS will have to learn to do less a lot more efficiently and part of that objective, long recognised, is for GPs to do a lot more in the way of preventative medicine. Blair recognised this and proposed super-Surguries. It has long been known that better prevention means more testing, on-tap, and near immediate diagnosis and prescription. Such is now taking place here in Mid Wales with our local Cottage hospital, under the hammer each and every years for a very long time, being expanded to four times the capacity with an integrated GPs Surgery and new Laboratory and test facilities. Health care needs to move towards more prevention as hospitalisation and the often associated Hoteling of patients is a very expensive solution. Problem is that many in the NHS do not want any reforms, they just want the money. |
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| Tytoalba | Jan 26 2015, 02:20 PM Post #15 |
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IMO every individual that can should run a pension plan of their own making, alongside that of the government one Start early and modestly by investing in shares, reducing risk by investing in investment trusts, but taking a chance on new specialised shares such as in Microsoft, apple or Amazon if you can find them. The Motley fool is an interesting site to watch, .www.fool.co.uk and to learn from. Reinvest the dividends in the early years, and then take the dividends as an extra to your pension, and still retain the capital for your own or families needs, unlike buying an annuity where you can lose all. No charge for the good advice. I turned £xx,xxx into £xxx,xxx in 30 years, its still growing and the dividends increasing. Just remember that you can lose as well as gain. Criticisms welcomed |
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| RJD | Jan 26 2015, 02:30 PM Post #16 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Invested in a pension for over 40 years, took advantage of the tax advantages of increasing savings when I could. Now my SIPP is in draw-down and I could live comfortably without the State OAP. The trick is not to put to much trust in managed funds, be selective, have a good spread of risk and avoid being too adventurous especially when retirement looms. I would make savings for one's old age compulsory for all those that are employed. |
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| ranger121 | Jan 26 2015, 03:56 PM Post #17 |
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British ‘Old-Aged’ Pensioner: Ok, we’ll go with the possibility that this description is of someone who has reached retirement age and has claimed their State Pension. The actual amount that the pensioner would receive depends on the amount of National Insurance contributions that they have made during their working life. Up until 2013, in order to receive the full pension, one would have to have a record of 30 years’ worth of contributions. The maximum State Pension is £113.10 per week. This is reduced on a sliding scale dependent on the number of years contribution, down to a minimum of 11 for men and 10 for women. BUT Assuming they have retired, have a minimum amount of savings and no other income, they would also qualify for means-tested Pension Credit, which boosts their income to a guaranteed minimum of £148.35 per week. So all pensioners are guaranteed £148.35 per week from the State. Next, the Immigrant/Refugee living in Britain. The immigrant has a different status to a refugee (also known as an Asylum Seeker) when it comes to state funds, so I will explain the difference. Immigrants also come in two colours – Those from the EU, and those from elsewhere. Everyone that comes to this country from ‘elsewhere’ with the intention of living here has to obtain a Visa to do so, and obtain permission from the UK government to stay in the UK. Not until they are given permission to stay and have begun paying taxes do they have access to Public funds (ie benefits). So they don’t have an ‘allowance’ of £250 per week. EU immigrants have the immediate right to stay for a period of 6 months, but have no access to public funds except for in-work benefits which they can claim whilst employed and paying taxes the same as every other person living here. So they don’t have an ‘allowance’ of £250 a week either. An asylum seeker, once accepted as being a genuine asylum seeker, is given a living allowance: Married couple or couple in civil partnership £72.52 Lone parent aged 18 or over £43.94 Single person aged 18 or over £36.62 Aged 16 to 18 £39.80 Aged under 16 £52.96 There is no such thing as a ‘spouse allowance’. Two pensioners living together are classed as a ‘couple’ (whether married or not) and are paid the couple rate of pension, which is £226.50 a week. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN: Illegal immigrants are, as described, illegally in the country. They cannot claim benefits. Asylum seekers, when accepted as being genuine and given money to live from the State whilst their case is considered, are not paid a ‘spouse allowance’. Such a term does not exist. ‘Hardship allowance’ is also a made-up term that does not exist. Again, illegal Immigrants are illegally here, and cannot get help from the state. Annual income for a single pensioner: State Pension, with Pension Credit £7714 ‘Notional Income’: Reduced or NIL council Tax Rent paid Prescriptions free Annual (state) income for an Illegal Immigrant: NIL. Annual income for a genuine asylum seeker: Allowance: £1092.24 Prescriptions free Housing, heating, electricity provided by the state. They are NOT permitted to apply for work whilst their case is being decided by the Home Office, and if their application is turned down, the state is still obligated to give them something under international treaty obligations: They get: somewhere to live (no choice where, though) £35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries They don't get any actual money. All of the above information can be sourced from Government websites. |
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| Tigger | Jan 26 2015, 05:24 PM Post #18 |
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Don't know and don't care, I prefer to find out facts and figures for myself rather than audit someone else's claims. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 26 2015, 06:55 PM Post #19 |
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I found one advantage of being an OAP today, I needed a couple of tyres for the car, AA discount no longer available, BUT 20% discount is available for OAPs. |
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| johnofgwent | Jan 26 2015, 11:12 PM Post #20 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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The bits that talk about what an OAP gets are the "true" bits (well, parts of them) It is the bits that claim they say what an ILLEGAL immigrant gets that are complete bollocks, they get fuck all from the state, except a cell. Having said that, while incarcerated they do get fed, and kept warm. If this is a concern I recommend beating the crap out of the next politician who canvasses for your vote with a pickaxe handle. You'll get a nice warm room, free food, free clothing, free meals, free healthcare and once word gets about you beat the crap out of a politician you'll be the most popular "trusty" on the block, and when they transfer you to an open prison you can even get out at weekends to give the missus a good seeing to and if you have problems getting back in time no worries plod will send a taxi ... with special blue lights and a siren so you know it's on its way Now then ... Shall I move this to the jokes section where the OP can be mocked, or the pillory ? |
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| Tytoalba | Jan 26 2015, 11:34 PM Post #21 |
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You have an aggressive streak that seems to seek satisfaction in violence and oppression. Hardly the lawful or democratic solutions IMO Without politicians and a Parliament to discuss matters or to oppose each others opinions an d views we will just have anarchy, and that will always harm the weak and the poor before the strong, and lead to chaos. |
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| Tigger | Jan 26 2015, 11:45 PM Post #22 |
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Are you sure you are retired? That post ^ and the OP look more like the work of an eight year old rather than someone who had been around for three score years and ten! I blame the education system of yesteryear myself. |
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| Steve K | Jan 27 2015, 12:46 AM Post #23 |
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You might well not Individual contributions are by and large capped off at 1.5 times average earnings and when you look at the contributions an average earner makes over the years then even if they never use the NHS, never claim any benefits incl sickness benefit they get to a pension pot that would pay for about 50% of the state pension And like the arrogant woman on the radio earlier today so many pensioners think they deserve even more free money from the state. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 27 2015, 09:26 AM Post #24 |
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If benefits only went to those who had paid for them to the total amount they had paid, Papasmurf's reputed claim about hundreds of thousands of corpses lying in the streets would very possibly come true. I am also unsure just how you would quantify the value of the state pension when it is paid from the 'current account' and not the 'deposit account' and has been changed, modified and restructured constantly. For instance my own personal pension fund is worth well over twice the amount I have contributed because it was wisely invested and secured returns. Equally those who contributed £1 say 20 years ago and are only getting 50p back today. Of all people on this forum you are probably able to put credible figures in front of us and I for one would welcome seeing them. Unfortunately as laudable as a state pension scheme is, since its introduction in 1908 the state pension scheme has always been financed out of tax receipts and never from a fund. Thus the state pension football has always been kicked on ahead with the obligation placed on future generations to meet the ever increasing cost. That said I would rather shell out for our OAPs than for some immigrant who has never contributed to the communal financial pot. You are possibly right about public dismemberment. The erstwhile civilised citizens of countries of the West now face random abuse, maiming and horrific death, not from disgruntled OAPs as you imply but from deranged jihadists. |
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| Steve K | Jan 27 2015, 09:36 AM Post #25 |
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My calculation was this Pension pot needed to get the same as the fully indexed state basic pension at 65 would be ~£200k Someone on average salary of ~£28k pays £2.4k of NI a year and over a working life of ~40 years that doesn't make even half that £200k. (yes wise investment means pension pots well exceed total contributions but that's covered by using the end NI contribution figure) And of course NI is supposed to pay for all sorts of things in addition to the state pension So my point remains those who moan about the state pension do need to remember that just like the NHS it is mostly paid for by the taxes that others paid and pay. They all had the opportunity to save for an extra pension, sadly so so many did not and a fair few took the reduced stamp option which means they never really paid for their pension in any form. |
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| Affa | Jan 27 2015, 11:32 AM Post #26 |
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Business feeds off society, without which there is no business and no rich people. Every member of society contributes in a number of ways towards the wealth created that is unevenly shared/distributed ........ even the retired continue to add consumerism and wealth to this huge pot of money. Today the PM used the word 'fair' a number of times - fairness is requiring those that earn the greatest wealth, be they individuals, groups, or business organisations, do make the major contributions such that society thrives and continues to be the platform on which all else rests. |
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| ranger121 | Jan 27 2015, 12:15 PM Post #27 |
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When I was selling pensions all those years ago, I found that those in their 20s were more concerned with getting a car and somewhere to live whilst getting blasted every weekend etc., etc., rather than paying into a pension that would be a long, long, way off. It's so far away - there's plenty of time. Those in their 30s do sometimes begin to think about a pension, and start a small effort off which they cancel at the first hint of financial trouble. After all, they can always start it off again, can't they? But they never do... Those in their 40s are beginning to panic about now, but are outraged at the cost of getting a somewhat decent pension. Those in their 50s are too late and cannot afford the premiums for even something modest. They might as well buy premium bonds. Ages vary, of course, but you get the idea. |
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| ACH1967 | Jan 27 2015, 12:27 PM Post #28 |
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Isn’t one of the problems the complete lack of clarity regarding pensions. There are people who believe that when they get to pensionable age there will be no state pension and there are others that believe they don’t need to bother because the state will always provide them with a pension. |
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| ranger121 | Jan 27 2015, 12:34 PM Post #29 |
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Thatcher was warned several times during her tenure that the current state system was unsustainable. She ignored the warnings, thinking that it will be the "next lot's" problem. As did the next lot, and the one after that. ...and so on. |
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| ACH1967 | Jan 27 2015, 12:39 PM Post #30 |
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I don’t consider it to be party political I think all parties have been ostriches in relation to this. Personally I find it all too confusing. I have just tried to read about it and I am even more confused. So there is a basic state pension and a second state pension. It seems to be saying that the basic is 113 and the additional can be up to 164 but doesn’t really say how you can calculate how much additional pension you are entitled to. How can you plan on the basis of this? |
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| Deleted User | Jan 27 2015, 12:42 PM Post #31 |
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Fair enough, that is rational process! However the OP was drawing a comparison between immigrants and OAPs. OK I accept the errors in the figures but my opinion is that I would rather our OAPs who predominantly have worked for much of their lives, paying their dues and contributing to society receive any extra largesse from our welfare structure than newly arrived immogrants who have contributed nothing. I do agree that those who could have benefited from the tax efficient option of building their own pension fund but failed to do so were/are short sighted for not doing so and I also made the point that the state pension scheme has never been self-funding, as it should have been, and has always been paid for by those who come after us, albeit in the hope that they too will benefit in due course. Unfortunately our state and its relatively high living standards are increasingly financed on increased borrowing and credit to be be paid for by our children and grand children. This I consider greedy, irresponsible and unrealistic. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 27 2015, 12:47 PM Post #32 |
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Start here:- https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-statement |
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| ranger121 | Jan 27 2015, 12:47 PM Post #33 |
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The rules surrounding pension entitlement are extremely complex, and depend on what you were signed up to at the time, whether you 'contracted out' of NI contributions into the government scheme and moved them to a private scheme during the 1980s, for example. I personally 'contracted out', then was 'contracted' back in when enrolled in a 'works' pension. So my calculation is somewhat complex. Best thing to do is go through the pension calculator on the .gov website, and hope for the best. No telling what 'they' are going to do in the future. For example, Oxford Actuaries & Consultants (OAC) calculated that [in 2007] in a worst-case scenario the pension of a 45-year-old man who had contracted out in 1988 and did not return to the state until 2005 would take a £33,600 hit, leaving him £27.30 a week worse off in retirement. However, the 'private' part of his pension would allow for a 25% tax-free lump sum, [with the new rules, possibly 100%] whereas the government pension does not. In the above case, basically it'll be a 17-year rebate of partial NI contributions. Hard, isn't it? |
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| ACH1967 | Jan 27 2015, 01:13 PM Post #34 |
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I think I have been contracted out for longer than that. Lucky old me. Thanks for the info |
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| ranger121 | Jan 27 2015, 01:20 PM Post #35 |
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One must be warned of the tax implications before calling that pension provider, though. The sting in the tail is that if you withdraw say, £45k from a pot in one year, all of a sudden you're a high-rate (irate) tax-payer for a year... |
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| C-too | Jan 27 2015, 01:23 PM Post #36 |
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Yes UKip can continue with their fairy tales as there will always be some who believe them. It seems you have used sterident? |
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| Tytoalba | Jan 28 2015, 10:42 AM Post #37 |
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No, still have most my own nashers. Off to the dentist and hygienist today, for a check up and a clean, at my own expense of course |
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| Affa | Jan 28 2015, 11:15 AM Post #38 |
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Of course! Finding a dentist that does NHS work is a bugger these days. |
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| Oddball 2014 | Jan 28 2015, 11:28 AM Post #39 |
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Affa - Yup, my own gnashers could do with a fair amount of work on them. Now I am retired gone are the days when as a dental technician I used to get top quality work done by my dentist clients for free. ps. Back in the early days of the NHS and Welfare State everything was for free, including dentistry and specs., as a result things used to get abused, with folks going for several sets of dentures and/or several pairs of specs.. pps. Ty - Not all OAPs are on the basic pension, many current pensioners like myself have increments added in, such as SERPs. As a single person, my wife having died, I get around £180p.w. Edited by Oddball 2014, Jan 28 2015, 11:34 AM.
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| Tytoalba | Jan 28 2015, 11:28 AM Post #40 |
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NHS Direct will find one for you. No problems down our way |
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