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Soviet 10 year plans.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2015, 11:29 AM (878 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
The Labour party and Millband have introduced another ten year soviet style plan into their election manifesto, now with a ten year plan for the NHS and social security
I seem to remember they made similar 10 year plans in the past prior to other elections, with the Railways coming to mind, but I believe there were others, so here they go again, with their Soviet style 10 year Manana plans for the future that will be forgotten in the future when they are not achieved.
Not today, not tomorrow, not next month or year, but always in the distant future.
Promises, promises , promises. Manana, Manana, Manana, but nothing for today.

But I see your true colours
Shining through
I see your true colours
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your true colours
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Replies:
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tigger
Jan 31 2015, 06:36 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 01:05 PM
Tigger
Jan 27 2015, 10:48 PM
Rich
Jan 27 2015, 10:35 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
And what has that got to do with anything?

Apart from the fact they do not have to try and bribe the electorate with it's own money every five years because most voters are to thick to think ahead.
Personally, having worked for two communication and three financial companies who were VERY keen to do business with China, I think "what the hell that has to do with it" is that if we leave aside the bollocks and baggage that the term "ten year plan" inevitably dredges up, which is one of ...

1) stalinist purges of the kulacks and deliberate rollout of inappropriate "planned" agriculture designed deliberately to kill off political opposition by causing those politically opposed to starve to death

or

2) Cultural Revolutions in which the intellectuals are generally taken out into the fields and either shot, or made to work paddy fields on pain of being shot if they do not ...


"what this has to do" with the creation of a "ten year plan" is that China, and for that matter Russia, could count upon state imposition of terror as a political weapon crushing dissent so as to allow those at the top time to "implement" their hopeless and indeed largely barking mad ideas which as I point out had little to do with helping the people and rather more to do with crushing the voice of the people

In this country it was Norman Lamont who arrogantly invented the idea of a budget measure that would come into force not in the year he was talking about, but the next, and it is a cunning stunt that was widely adopted by his successors of all political colours and parties, and each is as arrogant asd the next for having the bare faced cheek to presume they would be in post to carry out the said measure, and not looking down on it from a pike as they deserve.

In this country, anyone who announces as policy a measure that requires more than half a full parliament to implement is a lying bastars, and anyone who votes for such a person is a bloody fool·


Soviet style ten year plans are old hat and an incorrect comparison here in my opinion, it far more cerebral than that. The way they dangle a carrot to Western businesses is at times something to behold, too greedy to resist the lure of a marketplace of over a billion people and not bright enough to realise that they are being used.

I've suggested in the past that the Chinese have learned from our economic and financial mistakes and will not be repeating them, hence Western banks operating in China are on a very short leash, large enterprises must have a Chinese partner and financial hubs are controlled in a manner that is unthinkable here, political interference in the free market? No, people not blinded by short term ambition or greed reigning in those who are.
You are obviously not a China Watcher. How you have the brass neck to pontificate on such matters without first undertaking some very basic research is beyond understanding. "Chinese businessmen not blighted by greed and short term profits", what Planet are you on?
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krugerman
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Here is a link to a news story which happened this weekend, it concerns the death of a 16 year old boy in a road accident in Berwick.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-31072810

Now strangely enough I do not live anywhere near to Berwick or the borders, but I have got some students staying in some of my property here in North Yorkshire who are from that area, and they knew the boy well, infact some of them are returning back to the area to visit the deceased s family.

What has not been published (yet) is that this boy died about 5 minutes before the ambulance arrived - the response time was 40 minutes.

And here is the REAL twist to this story...........

The same two students who are staying in my property were witness to a different road accident before Christmas in the village of Sandsend, a lorry mounted the pavement and knocked over an elderly lady, they happened to be passing in a minibus and stopped to comfort the lady, and render any assistance they could.

I discovered tonight when I happened to mention the accident, that the ambulance response time in that particular instance was also 40 minutes.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/northyorkshire/yorkharrogate/11573245.Woman_hit_by_heavy_goods_lorry_in_Sandsend__near_Whitby/?ref=rss

On another thread somewhere I recently posted a case to which I was witness to, and which involved a pensioner collapsing in a social club, and an ambulance was called, the response time in that case been over half an hour.

Something really dreadful is happening to our ambulance services, occurrence s such as these were once very rare, now they are common, and the government attempts to make you all believe that all is well with the NHS - well all is not well, infact its a bloody long way from been well.

Dont let the Tories brainwash you into believing everything is down to an ageing population, people living longer, too many people going to A&E or abnormal winter pressure, its a load of dogs bollocks.

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Affa
Senior Member
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Irrelevant of course but looking at the scene I can make a reasonable guess as to what happened to cause this boys accidental death.
It happened to me ......... it is the 'think bike' message. A car pulled out off a garage forecourt not twenty yards in front of me in a built up area, 30mph speed limit. I was knocked unconscious, my helmet saving me from serious (deadly) injury.
The other careless eventuality is a car turning right into a side street - I've witnessed that too.
The oncoming car was indicating a right turn, he saw me on my bike, but not my cousin behind me, and made his manoeuvre after I passed. Cus was in hospital for eight months.

Can i be too critical? Afraid not! I too have 'not seen' a motor bike on first look when pulling out from a T junction - but did, with surprise, on second look, so I have not made the error.
A lesson for us all.




Edited by Affa, Feb 1 2015, 06:39 PM.
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Tigger
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RJD
Feb 1 2015, 04:45 PM
. "Chinese businessmen not blighted by greed and short term profits", what Planet are you on?
And what effin planet are you on when you drastically alter what I said and then present it as my own words! ;D

FFS man read what you are replying to!

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Steve K
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krugerman
Feb 1 2015, 06:18 PM
Here is a link to a news story which happened this weekend, it concerns the death of a 16 year old boy in a road accident in Berwick.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-31072810

Now strangely enough I do not live anywhere near to Berwick or the borders, but I have got some students staying in some of my property here in North Yorkshire who are from that area, and they knew the boy well, infact some of them are returning back to the area to visit the deceased s family.

What has not been published (yet) is that this boy died about 5 minutes before the ambulance arrived - the response time was 40 minutes.

And here is the REAL twist to this story...........

The same two students who are staying in my property were witness to a different road accident before Christmas in the village of Sandsend, a lorry mounted the pavement and knocked over an elderly lady, they happened to be passing in a minibus and stopped to comfort the lady, and render any assistance they could.

I discovered tonight when I happened to mention the accident, that the ambulance response time in that particular instance was also 40 minutes.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/northyorkshire/yorkharrogate/11573245.Woman_hit_by_heavy_goods_lorry_in_Sandsend__near_Whitby/?ref=rss

On another thread somewhere I recently posted a case to which I was witness to, and which involved a pensioner collapsing in a social club, and an ambulance was called, the response time in that case been over half an hour.

Something really dreadful is happening to our ambulance services, occurrence s such as these were once very rare, now they are common, and the government attempts to make you all believe that all is well with the NHS - well all is not well, infact its a bloody long way from been well.

Dont let the Tories brainwash you into believing everything is down to an ageing population, people living longer, too many people going to A&E or abnormal winter pressure, its a load of dogs bollocks.

Yes if you only take into account the times they take over 40 minutes then it will seem like the average is over 40 minutes

Doesn't make it true though even if they are missing their targets.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/yorkshire-ambulance-service-facing-4m-fine-over-missed-response-times-1-6988347

Quote:
 
In Yorkshire and the Humber demand for the most seriously ill and injured patients in the first six months of the year was up by 11.5 per cent which equates to nearly 15,000 more ‘Red’ incidents in the year-to-date.

“The October 2014 figures for ‘Red’ response times have shown improvement with 73.83 per cent of incidents responded to within the eight-minute target.
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ACH1967
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C-too
Jan 30 2015, 08:23 PM
ACH1967
Jan 29 2015, 02:03 PM
krugerman
Jan 28 2015, 01:26 PM
No just smarter with less overmanning.

Are you completely out of your mind ?, A&E departments are not over-manned, if there were more emergency beds, more doctors and nurses in our A&E departments, there would not be the queues and long waiting times that we currently have.

And one of the major causes of the current problems, is the cuts to social care, nowhere for patients to be discharged to, blocking up beds.


Really is amusing that the Usuals claim that this Gov. is privatising the NHS when they point their fingers at an increase of ~1.5% from the ~4.2% portion of outsourcing under the last lot. Sounds and smells like conspiracy theorists gone mad.

At no time did the previous government take medical care provision away from the NHS and put it out to tender to profiteers, what they did do was supplement NHS provision with the private sector, outside of the NHS, in order to alleviate the pressure on waiting times and waiting lists.
The current government is actually taking healthcare away from the state sector and giving it to the profit makers of their buddies in the private sector - something that Labour would never do.

Clearly Labour are seeking to weaponise the NHS for own selfish political advantage with zero thought of what this might mean for patients. Andy Burnham made a fool of himself last night and demonstrated that Labour is all bluster with no substance. He like many others just hate the market, hate capitalism, in the old days they would have been proud to proclaim themselves as Marxists, but today they seek to hide that from view.

The Labour Party are representing the views of almost the entire workforce of the NHS from the Royal College of Psychiatrists to the Hospital Consultants and Specialists Association, every professional body, and also (according to opinion polls) the majority of the British public.

No one wanted this huge reorganisation, no one believes it to be necessary, the public do not want medical care and provision handed to private companies, people want the NHS to remain a state funded and state run health service, the Labour Party are with the majority view.

The NHS is in a poorer state now than 5 years ago, people are now waiting longer to see their GP, longer to get into A&E, and its quicker and more reliable to order a pizza delivery than it is to call 999 for an ambulance; We have seen the longest period of negligible funding in the history of the NHS, and even these figures are fiddled.

I am so pleased the NHS is the number 1 issue as we move towards the election


Now let me see. In our many discussions about the Helth service you have said that one should trust the kings funds research. Today they apparently released research that indicated peoples satisfaction levels with the NHS had gone up. Please feel free to explain how this matches up with the NHS in crisis.


Olive Branch - the NHS is underfunded now. Reform will be needed in the future though as the population ages.
Propaganda ?

I'm related to a nurse and the message I hear is not good.
Accurate and trustworthy when they agree with you propoganda when they do not.

I am so surprised.
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krugerman
Member Avatar
Regular Member
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Someone once said "there a lies, more lies, and then there are statistics"

If you put your head in an oven on gas mark 8, and your feet into a freezer, somewhere in the middle will be an average temperature.

Yorkshire is a region of England, it is the only region of England which is based upon a county, and Yorkshire has got some of the most urbanized areas in England, such as Leeds / Bradford and Sheffield, but Yorkshire also has some of the remotest places in England too, with many communities 30 to 40 miles from a general hospital.

We know that in Yorkshire, the ambulance response times are acceptable in Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford and urbanized West Yorkshire, which is where the large population centres are, we also know that the ambulance response times in North Yorkshire, which is far more rural and sparsely populated are well below the accepted level, but the Yorkshire Ambulance Service refuses to provide the broken-down information.



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ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
There is very little you can do in life that is without risk.

If you live in a remote area...you are living in a remote area and either accept that there are inherent risks with doing so or move not expect.
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C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
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ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:00 PM
C-too
Jan 30 2015, 08:23 PM
ACH1967
Jan 29 2015, 02:03 PM
krugerman
Jan 28 2015, 01:26 PM
No just smarter with less overmanning.

Are you completely out of your mind ?, A&E departments are not over-manned, if there were more emergency beds, more doctors and nurses in our A&E departments, there would not be the queues and long waiting times that we currently have.

And one of the major causes of the current problems, is the cuts to social care, nowhere for patients to be discharged to, blocking up beds.


Really is amusing that the Usuals claim that this Gov. is privatising the NHS when they point their fingers at an increase of ~1.5% from the ~4.2% portion of outsourcing under the last lot. Sounds and smells like conspiracy theorists gone mad.

At no time did the previous government take medical care provision away from the NHS and put it out to tender to profiteers, what they did do was supplement NHS provision with the private sector, outside of the NHS, in order to alleviate the pressure on waiting times and waiting lists.
The current government is actually taking healthcare away from the state sector and giving it to the profit makers of their buddies in the private sector - something that Labour would never do.

Clearly Labour are seeking to weaponise the NHS for own selfish political advantage with zero thought of what this might mean for patients. Andy Burnham made a fool of himself last night and demonstrated that Labour is all bluster with no substance. He like many others just hate the market, hate capitalism, in the old days they would have been proud to proclaim themselves as Marxists, but today they seek to hide that from view.

The Labour Party are representing the views of almost the entire workforce of the NHS from the Royal College of Psychiatrists to the Hospital Consultants and Specialists Association, every professional body, and also (according to opinion polls) the majority of the British public.

No one wanted this huge reorganisation, no one believes it to be necessary, the public do not want medical care and provision handed to private companies, people want the NHS to remain a state funded and state run health service, the Labour Party are with the majority view.

The NHS is in a poorer state now than 5 years ago, people are now waiting longer to see their GP, longer to get into A&E, and its quicker and more reliable to order a pizza delivery than it is to call 999 for an ambulance; We have seen the longest period of negligible funding in the history of the NHS, and even these figures are fiddled.

I am so pleased the NHS is the number 1 issue as we move towards the election


Now let me see. In our many discussions about the Helth service you have said that one should trust the kings funds research. Today they apparently released research that indicated peoples satisfaction levels with the NHS had gone up. Please feel free to explain how this matches up with the NHS in crisis.


Olive Branch - the NHS is underfunded now. Reform will be needed in the future though as the population ages.
Propaganda ?

I'm related to a nurse and the message I hear is not good.
Accurate and trustworthy when they agree with you propoganda when they do not.

I am so surprised.
Why are you posting such an asinine non-debating post.
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ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
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C-too
Feb 2 2015, 01:37 PM
ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:00 PM
C-too
Jan 30 2015, 08:23 PM
ACH1967
Jan 29 2015, 02:03 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepNo just smarter with less overmanning.

Are you completely out of your mind ?, A&E departments are not over-manned, if there were more emergency beds, more doctors and nurses in our A&E departments, there would not be the queues and long waiting times that we currently have.

And one of the major causes of the current problems, is the cuts to social care, nowhere for patients to be discharged to, blocking up beds.


Really is amusing that the Usuals claim that this Gov. is privatising the NHS when they point their fingers at an increase of ~1.5% from the ~4.2% portion of outsourcing under the last lot. Sounds and smells like conspiracy theorists gone mad.

At no time did the previous government take medical care provision away from the NHS and put it out to tender to profiteers, what they did do was supplement NHS provision with the private sector, outside of the NHS, in order to alleviate the pressure on waiting times and waiting lists.
The current government is actually taking healthcare away from the state sector and giving it to the profit makers of their buddies in the private sector - something that Labour would never do.

Clearly Labour are seeking to weaponise the NHS for own selfish political advantage with zero thought of what this might mean for patients. Andy Burnham made a fool of himself last night and demonstrated that Labour is all bluster with no substance. He like many others just hate the market, hate capitalism, in the old days they would have been proud to proclaim themselves as Marxists, but today they seek to hide that from view.
Propaganda ?

I'm related to a nurse and the message I hear is not good.
Accurate and trustworthy when they agree with you propoganda when they do not.

I am so surprised.
Why are you posting such an asinine non-debating post.
Pointing out your hypocirisy is hardly asinine. In fact it is far more grown up and debating than accusing me of being foolish but then you are too arrongant and pompous to realise that.
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RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
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Tigger
Feb 1 2015, 06:37 PM
RJD
Feb 1 2015, 04:45 PM
. "Chinese businessmen not blighted by greed and short term profits", what Planet are you on?
And what effin planet are you on when you drastically alter what I said and then present it as my own words! ;D

FFS man read what you are replying to!

Try this:
Quote:
 
Tig: I've suggested in the past that the Chinese have learned from our economic and financial mistakes and will not be repeating them, hence Western banks operating in China are on a very short leash, large enterprises must have a Chinese partner and financial hubs are controlled in a manner that is unthinkable here, political interference in the free market? No, people not blinded by short term ambition or greed reigning in those who are.


"Chinese will not be repeating our mistakes" - wake up and go buy a Newspaper.

"people not blinded by short term ambition" - again go buy a serious Newspaper and stop the Comics.

China businesses are riddled with greed, corruption and short-termism, but sitting up their on your ivory ladder you will not have any idea what takes place on the ground. No doubt it is this insular view of the World that allows you to spout the inanity of all inanities and that is we show adopt the Euro now.


File: The Ignorant Gob.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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krugerman
Feb 2 2015, 12:19 PM
Someone once said "there a lies, more lies, and then there are statistics"

If you put your head in an oven on gas mark 8, and your feet into a freezer, somewhere in the middle will be an average temperature.

Yorkshire is a region of England, it is the only region of England which is based upon a county, and Yorkshire has got some of the most urbanized areas in England, such as Leeds / Bradford and Sheffield, but Yorkshire also has some of the remotest places in England too, with many communities 30 to 40 miles from a general hospital.

We know that in Yorkshire, the ambulance response times are acceptable in Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford and urbanized West Yorkshire, which is where the large population centres are, we also know that the ambulance response times in North Yorkshire, which is far more rural and sparsely populated are well below the accepted level, but the Yorkshire Ambulance Service refuses to provide the broken-down information.



Tell us how Labour in Wales have solved their Ambulance Response Time(s) difficulties? Last time I looked they are twice as bad as England.

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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:41 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:05 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 01:05 PM
. . . In this country, anyone who announces as policy a measure that requires more than half a full parliament to implement is a lying bastars, . . .
Do you not see the logical flaws in that ^ ?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lie#lie-2
Steve, the last man to actually make a go of carrying out, while in the hall of westminster, that which he pledged to do before he entered, was one guido fawkes....

The bottom line as far as the matter in the OP is concerned, is that I consider the individual making the statement so desperate to get his arse on the big chair in the cabinet room he will say anything ... and that there is form for spokespeople on both sides of the house having made a statement of a long term goal they simply abandon, as quietly as they possibly can.

With respect, utter poppycock ^

It would be wrong for me to take PS to task for woeful abuse of a very simple word "lie" and not point out your woeful abuse of the English language too. If you can show that Lamont was a liar in that example in that he KNEW it would never happen then I will apologise.

You may hate all MPs but might that not be more connected with them attracting votes to easily keep you and your party of choice out of the house rather than a woefully unsubstantiated allegation that they all turn to the dark side the moment they enter the house?

As for your allegation about the woefully inept Norman Lamont can you show that he or indeed any chancellor did not carry out the policy changes they gave a year's advance notice of?
OK Steve ...

Shall we start with Norman Lamont's budget declaration that Prime Contractors shall be required to pay their subcontractors within 90 days ?

When I lived across the river and Paul Flynn was my MP Lamont made that statement at the despatch box. At that time a defence prime contractor (ferranti) owed me 180 days money. I wrote to tell my MP who took some delight in bringing my letter to the attention of the Chancellor during the subsequent budget debate. I still have the letter from his then underling a certain Michael Portillo telling me the declaration made in the speech was a "guideline" and that where "custom and practice" dicated other practices they would not be amended by legislation

I have other such examples. Lawson's removal of MIRAS tax relief, Lamont's tax on mobile phones, and best of all of course Brown's introduction of IR35 couched in terms that ensured no homosexual couple would be snared by it.
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:41 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:05 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 01:05 PM
. . . In this country, anyone who announces as policy a measure that requires more than half a full parliament to implement is a lying bastars, . . .
Do you not see the logical flaws in that ^ ?<br /><br />http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lie#lie-2
Steve, the last man to actually make a go of carrying out, while in the hall of westminster, that which he pledged to do before he entered, was one guido fawkes....<br /><br />The bottom line as far as the matter in the OP is concerned, is that I consider the individual making the statement so desperate to get his arse on the big chair in the cabinet room he will say anything ... and that there is form for spokespeople on both sides of the house having made a statement of a long term goal they simply abandon, as quietly as they possibly can.<br /><br />
With respect, utter poppycock ^<br /><br />It would be wrong for me to take PS to task for woeful abuse of a very simple word "lie" and not point out your woeful abuse of the English language too. If you can show that Lamont was a liar in that example in that he KNEW it would never happen then I will apologise. <br /><br />You may hate all MPs but might that not be more connected with them attracting votes to easily keep you and your party of choice out of the house rather than a woefully unsubstantiated allegation that they all turn to the dark side the moment they enter the house?<br /><br />As for your allegation about the woefully inept Norman Lamont can you show that he or indeed any chancellor did not carry out the policy changes they gave a year's advance notice of?
OK Steve ...

Shall we start with Norman Lamont's budget declaration that Prime Contractors shall be required to pay their subcontractors within 90 days ?

When I lived across the river and Paul Flynn was my MP Lamont made that statement at the despatch box. At that time a defence prime contractor (ferranti) owed me 180 days money. I wrote to tell my MP who took some delight in bringing my letter to the attention of the Chancellor during the subsequent budget debate. I still have the letter from his then underling a certain Michael Portillo telling me the declaration made in the speech was a "guideline" and that where "custom and practice" dicated other practices they would not be amended by legislation

I have other such examples. Lawson's removal of MIRAS tax relief, Lamont's tax on mobile phones, and best of all of course Brown's introduction of IR35 couched in terms that ensured no homosexual couple would be snared by it.
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C-too
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Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 01:56 PM
C-too
Feb 2 2015, 01:37 PM
ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:00 PM
C-too
Jan 30 2015, 08:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepNo just smarter with less overmanning.

Are you completely out of your mind ?, A&E departments are not over-manned, if there were more emergency beds, more doctors and nurses in our A&E departments, there would not be the queues and long waiting times that we currently have.

And one of the major causes of the current problems, is the cuts to social care, nowhere for patients to be discharged to, blocking up beds.


Really is amusing that the Usuals claim that this Gov. is privatising the NHS when they point their fingers at an increase of ~1.5% from the ~4.2% portion of outsourcing under the last lot. Sounds and smells like conspiracy theorists gone mad.

At no time did the previous government take medical care provision away from the NHS and put it out to tender to profiteers, what they did do was supplement NHS provision with the private sector, outside of the NHS, in order to alleviate the pressure on waiting times and waiting lists.
The current government is actually taking healthcare away from the state sector and giving it to the profit makers of their buddies in the private sector - something that Labour would never do.

Clearly Labour are seeking to weaponise the NHS for own selfish political advantage with zero thought of what this might mean for patients. Andy Burnham made a fool of himself last night and demonstrated that Labour is all bluster with no substance. He like many others just hate the market, hate capitalism, in the old days they would have been proud to proclaim themselves as Marxists, but today they seek to hide that from view.
Accurate and trustworthy when they agree with you propoganda when they do not.

I am so surprised.
Why are you posting such an asinine non-debating post.
Pointing out your hypocirisy is hardly asinine. In fact it is far more grown up and debating than accusing me of being foolish but then you are too arrongant and pompous to realise that.
Strong opinions, care to prove your accusations ?

Edited by C-too, Feb 3 2015, 08:51 AM.
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krugerman
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ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:47 PM
There is very little you can do in life that is without risk.

If you live in a remote area...you are living in a remote area and either accept that there are inherent risks with doing so or move not expect.
This is utter nonsense

When people who are living within half a mile of an ambulance station wait 40 minutes for an ambulance, its not acceptable, and such instances are happening all too frequently, I suspect what you may be trying to say is that if you live 15 to 20 minutes away from the nearest station, then you cannot expect an ambulance to arrive in 10 minutes - I accept that.

In the remotest areas of England, ambulance stations are often not placed or positioned in the main settlements, they are instead placed half way between small market towns, this is a sensible cost-effective way of providing adequate cover.

The example I gave where a teenager died through waiting 40 minutes for an ambulance was in Berwick, a town which has an ambulance station, the second example I gave of an elderly lady seriously injured, was three miles from an ambulance station, not in a remote pennine dale.
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ACH1967
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krugerman
Feb 3 2015, 10:30 AM
ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:47 PM
There is very little you can do in life that is without risk.

If you live in a remote area...you are living in a remote area and either accept that there are inherent risks with doing so or move not expect.
This is utter nonsense

When people who are living within half a mile of an ambulance station wait 40 minutes for an ambulance, its not acceptable, and such instances are happening all too frequently, I suspect what you may be trying to say is that if you live 15 to 20 minutes away from the nearest station, then you cannot expect an ambulance to arrive in 10 minutes - I accept that.

In the remotest areas of England, ambulance stations are often not placed or positioned in the main settlements, they are instead placed half way between small market towns, this is a sensible cost-effective way of providing adequate cover.

The example I gave where a teenager died through waiting 40 minutes for an ambulance was in Berwick, a town which has an ambulance station, the second example I gave of an elderly lady seriously injured, was three miles from an ambulance station, not in a remote pennine dale.
Why begin the post with "this is utter nonsense" and then go on to agree with what I am saying???
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Tytoalba
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krugerman
Feb 3 2015, 10:30 AM
ACH1967
Feb 2 2015, 12:47 PM
There is very little you can do in life that is without risk.

If you live in a remote area...you are living in a remote area and either accept that there are inherent risks with doing so or move not expect.
This is utter nonsense

When people who are living within half a mile of an ambulance station wait 40 minutes for an ambulance, its not acceptable, and such instances are happening all too frequently, I suspect what you may be trying to say is that if you live 15 to 20 minutes away from the nearest station, then you cannot expect an ambulance to arrive in 10 minutes - I accept that.

In the remotest areas of England, ambulance stations are often not placed or positioned in the main settlements, they are instead placed half way between small market towns, this is a sensible cost-effective way of providing adequate cover.

The example I gave where a teenager died through waiting 40 minutes for an ambulance was in Berwick, a town which has an ambulance station, the second example I gave of an elderly lady seriously injured, was three miles from an ambulance station, not in a remote pennine dale.
Ambulance response times depend on many things. You may live close to the station, but the ambulance may already be called to another patient.in need or they may be passing your road on a return to the station at the time they receive the call .
There is always an element of chance when you need them, and a balance has to be drawn between cost or over manning or efficiency of a 100%. service. Knowing the basics of first aid can effect the outcome.
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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Feb 3 2015, 08:47 AM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:41 PM
johnofgwent
Jan 31 2015, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:05 PM
Steve, the last man to actually make a go of carrying out, while in the hall of westminster, that which he pledged to do before he entered, was one guido fawkes....<br /><br />The bottom line as far as the matter in the OP is concerned, is that I consider the individual making the statement so desperate to get his arse on the big chair in the cabinet room he will say anything ... and that there is form for spokespeople on both sides of the house having made a statement of a long term goal they simply abandon, as quietly as they possibly can.<br /><br />
With respect, utter poppycock ^<br /><br />It would be wrong for me to take PS to task for woeful abuse of a very simple word "lie" and not point out your woeful abuse of the English language too. If you can show that Lamont was a liar in that example in that he KNEW it would never happen then I will apologise. <br /><br />You may hate all MPs but might that not be more connected with them attracting votes to easily keep you and your party of choice out of the house rather than a woefully unsubstantiated allegation that they all turn to the dark side the moment they enter the house?<br /><br />As for your allegation about the woefully inept Norman Lamont can you show that he or indeed any chancellor did not carry out the policy changes they gave a year's advance notice of?
OK Steve ...

Shall we start with Norman Lamont's budget declaration that Prime Contractors shall be required to pay their subcontractors within 90 days ?

When I lived across the river and Paul Flynn was my MP Lamont made that statement at the despatch box. At that time a defence prime contractor (ferranti) owed me 180 days money. I wrote to tell my MP who took some delight in bringing my letter to the attention of the Chancellor during the subsequent budget debate. I still have the letter from his then underling a certain Michael Portillo telling me the declaration made in the speech was a "guideline" and that where "custom and practice" dicated other practices they would not be amended by legislation

I have other such examples. Lawson's removal of MIRAS tax relief, Lamont's tax on mobile phones, and best of all of course Brown's introduction of IR35 couched in terms that ensured no homosexual couple would be snared by it.
Well much as I hate to defend Norman Lamont (imho one of the worst ever chancellors) I guess I have to point out a few things

1. He actually said 30 days not 90

2. I think you may have been misled. This was the Portillo debate you mention

Quote:
 
Mr. Portillo : The hon. Gentleman has pursued that matter assiduously with me in correspondence and parliamentary questions. It is a requirement that there should be a commitment within the contract to pay within 30 days. That has been with us since April and the Government take it very seriously. I should be happy to take up on the hon. Gentleman's behalf any case that has arisen. It is possible, as he said, for a company to pursue the matter through the courts. It is also possible for the Government to take account of poor performance when awarding future contracts. Those are the best remedies, rather than imposing interest payments, but the hon. Gentleman may wish to pursue a particular case with me.


No mention of guidelines, in fact the word "guide" from Lamont appears later in his reply to another question about a different topic: inflation and "guidelines" in a later question on housing

3. The provision was 30 days after supplying "a valid invoice" now that clearly was an open barn door for BAE SYSTEMS (oh look I have named names) to raise all sorts of false reasons to query a perfectly good invoice.

I was a victim of BAE SYSTEMS late payments regime too. They essentially said they would not pay any invoices until we did extra work for free. We refused, they didn't pay for over a year and we nearly went to the wall. My specific business unit did not survive.

But does any of this show that Lamont knew his promise was false when he made it? No it damn well does not and unless he knew such he is not a liar is he.

Now you know. So any repeat of that liar claim would be false so . . . . . . .

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Affa
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Steve K
Feb 3 2015, 12:42 PM


Now you know. So any repeat of that liar claim would be false so . . . . . . .



Let's all agree that the correct term is 'uneconomical with the truth', and move on from there.

Oh, and Portillo developed integrity AFTER leaving Parliament, that is also clear.

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Steve K
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Affa
Feb 3 2015, 01:41 PM
Steve K
Feb 3 2015, 12:42 PM


Now you know. So any repeat of that liar claim would be false so . . . . . . .



Let's all agree that the correct term is 'uneconomical with the truth', and move on from there.

Oh, and Portillo developed integrity AFTER leaving Parliament, that is also clear.

yep I'm happy with that. "Liar" is possibly the worst non violent behaviour you can accuse someone of. We see posters misuse the accusation everyday in some absurd belief that if they use hyperbole to make another seem worse then they will easily win the day.

They won't, they just show the weakness of their own position by needing to use such dishonesty

As for Portillo iss redemption started with that amazing loser's speech when he was defeated as a candidate. Not sure he is fully redeemed yet but he has made much progress albeit from a pretty dreadful position
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Tigger
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RJD
Feb 2 2015, 04:16 PM
Tigger
Feb 1 2015, 06:37 PM
RJD
Feb 1 2015, 04:45 PM
. "Chinese businessmen not blighted by greed and short term profits", what Planet are you on?
And what effin planet are you on when you drastically alter what I said and then present it as my own words! ;D

FFS man read what you are replying to!

Try this:
Quote:
 
Tig: I've suggested in the past that the Chinese have learned from our economic and financial mistakes and will not be repeating them, hence Western banks operating in China are on a very short leash, large enterprises must have a Chinese partner and financial hubs are controlled in a manner that is unthinkable here, political interference in the free market? No, people not blinded by short term ambition or greed reigning in those who are.


"Chinese will not be repeating our mistakes" - wake up and go buy a Newspaper.

"people not blinded by short term ambition" - again go buy a serious Newspaper and stop the Comics.

China businesses are riddled with greed, corruption and short-termism, but sitting up their on your ivory ladder you will not have any idea what takes place on the ground. No doubt it is this insular view of the World that allows you to spout the inanity of all inanities and that is we show adopt the Euro now.


File: The Ignorant Gob.
File under altering the words of others, re interpreting the the meaning in an attempt to cover your arse. ;D

I did not specify that the Chinese were NOT corrupt, did you not notice this or where you just kindly filling in the gaps for me?

And yes it's true dodgy Western banks ARE kept on a short leash and you do need a Chinese business partner for major enterprises because this allows you, the host country to retain control, I admire them for this and the Chinese government is wise in retaining that control over those who operate on it's territory, not for them the lilly livered sell your own country down the river British business ethic that is slowly asset stripping this nation and flogging it off to anyone with a few quid in his pocket.

File under.. Oh I've already done that....
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ACH1967
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Steve K
Feb 3 2015, 01:55 PM
Affa
Feb 3 2015, 01:41 PM
Steve K
Feb 3 2015, 12:42 PM


Now you know. So any repeat of that liar claim would be false so . . . . . . .



Let's all agree that the correct term is 'uneconomical with the truth', and move on from there.

Oh, and Portillo developed integrity AFTER leaving Parliament, that is also clear.

yep I'm happy with that. "Liar" is possibly the worst non violent behaviour you can accuse someone of. We see posters misuse the accusation everyday in some absurd belief that if they use hyperbole to make another seem worse then they will easily win the day.

They won't, they just show the weakness of their own position by needing to use such dishonesty

As for Portillo iss redemption started with that amazing loser's speech when he was defeated as a candidate. Not sure he is fully redeemed yet but he has made much progress albeit from a pretty dreadful position
Portillo will not achieve redemption until he stops wereing those awful coloured jacket and trouser combinations on his railway programs !!!
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