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Immigrants could decide General election
Topic Started: Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM (1,460 Views)
Tytoalba
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On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants, meaning not British born, but on the electoral roll.
They named two London boroughs, where this could apply , and would vote Labour, and three or more cities in England where they could vote for immigrant candidates.
If it has been reported correctly, it seems that our countries destiny will no longer be in our hands, and the General election will be decided by immigrants. It will be interesting to see the list of candidates when they are announced.
It is Likely that Cameron has delayed the referendum on the EU until the numbers are stacked in his favour, that is to in favour of remaining in the EU
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ranger121
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Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.

Whether sufficient numbers would vote en masse in one particular way in sufficient numbers to influence a result is impossible to say, given that it's a secret ballot.

'Likely'? Nothing is more definite. No party would give a chance at a referendum unless they were 75% sure which way it would go.

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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
it seems that our countries destiny will no longer be in our hands, and the General election will be decided by immigrants.
Translation, we might get a Labour government.
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Tigger
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ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
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Happy Hornet
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So on the one hand we are told that the anti - immigration party UKIP are going to storm it at the next election and on the other we are told that immigrants are going to decide the election.

Hmmm...............
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Tytoalba
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ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.

Whether sufficient numbers would vote en masse in one particular way in sufficient numbers to influence a result is impossible to say, given that it's a secret ballot.

'Likely'? Nothing is more definite. No party would give a chance at a referendum unless they were 75% sure which way it would go.

http://www.ukmalayalee.com/immigration-news/news.php?id=MjMw
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Tytoalba
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Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
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Rich
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Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
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ranger121
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http://www.ukmalayalee.com/immigration-news/news.php?id=MjMw

Are you serious with this?

Quote:
 
LONDON Jan 18: THE BRITISH government has ruled out introducing immigration limits, although the issue could be a key one in dozens of marginal seats that could decide the result of the next election.

The Labour Party is increasingly facing pressure, following moves by the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, the UK Independence Party (UKIP) and the British National Party that would impose some curbs.


Ok, so the government doesn't propose any limits other than those already imposed.

Quote:
 
Communities secretary of state John Denham yesterday ruled out annual caps, saying Britain would lose out: “Suppose the first person after the cap was an international heart specialist?” he asked.


Mr Denham comes in again a bit later.

Quote:
 
Conservative Party leader David Cameron has indicated he would limit immigration from outside the EU to “tens of thousands” annually.


Yes, an easy one to pledge, just restrict visas more. Nothing said about EU immigrants, over which he has no control of numbers whatsoever.

Quote:
 
A poll of nearly 60 key marginal constituencies carried out for MigrationWatch, a pressure group that favours restrictions, suggests 44 per cent of voters in Labour-held “swing” seats would back the Conservatives this year if Mr Cameron firms up his pledge.


Presumably, the 44% will also include some immigrant (now British Citizen) voters?

Quote:
 
Saying that immigration could decide the election, MigrationWatch chairman Sir Andrew Green said: “Immigration is a matter of deep concern to a large majority of the population and they are likely to respond very positively to parties that seriously address them.”


Sir Andrew is quite mistaken, a small minority of people [predominently in the crowded South-East] have an 'issue' with immigration. If by responding positively, he means they'll vote for a party likely to address their 'concerns' - which party does he think they may go for? If, for example, an anti-Muslim party might be silly enough to stand a candidate in a predominantly Muslim area would they go for it? They are of course free to do so, but highly unlikely. So where do they cast their vote?

Quote:
 
However, Mr Denham insisted:

... “Suppose the first person after the cap was an international heart specialist?” he asked.

“We have got tight immigration control – the points-based system that is now in place means that people can only come here if what they are going to give to this country is something we need.”


There you go, full party line, no deviation.

Quote:
 
Net immigration into Britain – the number left after those emigrating are subtracted – stood at 163,000 in 2008, down from 237,000 the year before – partly reflecting a drift home by eastern Europeans due to recession.


Does this include EU immigration/emigration as well as non-EU immigration/emigration?

Seems a little small if it does.

Quote:
 
However, Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg disagreed with Mr Cameron’s “cap” pledge, but has argued numbers coming to the southeast of England must be reduced. “Some parts of Scotland . . . and the fruit-picking trade in Lincolnshire, for example, badly need more workers to come in,” he told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show yesterday. Britain, he said, had “a moral duty” to provide a refuge for those fleeing persecution.


Mr Clegg appears confused by the question, saying that he wants to limit specific areas of the country, but encouraging immigration to where the labour is needed. Probably at the expense of the local job opportunities. What mechanism he could use to achieve such a movement of labour appears unclear.

Of course, yes, Britain does have a "moral duty" to refugees and asylum seekers, but the discussion isn't about them.

Quote:
 
Meanwhile, the UKIP, which did well in last year’s European elections, has proposed a ban on the burka and other face-covering veils by Muslim women.


Then we go off on a tangent about bans on face coverings.

I'm sure that you can do better.
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johnofgwent
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Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
Where on earth did you get that idea.

Gordon Brown deliberately starved the universities of the money they needed to implement Blair's "50% must waste three years of their life getting a degree they'll never use and a debt they will never repay because they will never earn enough" thus causing the assholes in charge to turn in HUGE measure to the overseas sector who can be milked for all they are worth because their GOVERNMENT pays the fees for them to study here (I speak as one whose daughter's american boyfriend at the time was 100% funded by uncle sam to come to the UK to study IT so I think I know what I am talking about, and should any say I don't I suppose I should add that after all my wife processed his university entrance papers as it was her job to do so at the time ....

The upshot of this is that those coming here expect to be given a job and residence here as well. Some tory asshole was on the radio just the other week condemning those who campaign to send graduates home at the end of their course ...

So both parties are in the game of denying our own a chance to get on while filling the country with immigrants educated with the "foreign aid" we hand out to them.

If british voters cannot see this is lighting the fuse on the stick of dynamite they are shoving up their own arse ....

But then again, as Brown so clearly demonstrated, in the eyes of the political elite, for someone outside that elite to be concerned at the future of one's grandchildren in the country one was born in is an act of bigotry for which one must be crucified.
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C-too
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Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
If your claim that immigration i.e. being a member of the EU is destroying the British character then you need to look at the individuals who recommended the EU become a reality, and who took us into the EU. IIRC that would be Winston Churchill and Edward Heath.
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somersetli
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I think you are confusing the EU with the European Economic Community.
The decision to remain in that organisation was decided by a referendum of the UK electorate, who were urged to vote in favour of remaining in by, the then, Labour government. Plus almost the entire news media.
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
I have Googled it, and unlike you I looked at facts and figures that did were not intended specifically for the consumption of Little Englanders..............
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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C-too
Jan 31 2015, 10:35 AM
Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
If your claim that immigration i.e. being a member of the EU is destroying the British character then you need to look at the individuals who recommended the EU become a reality, and who took us into the EU. IIRC that would be Winston Churchill and Edward Heath.
We voted to be part of a common market, There has never been a referendum on becoming membership of the EU or its centralised EU government. has there?
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 31 2015, 11:10 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
I have Googled it, and unlike you I looked at facts and figures that did were not intended specifically for the consumption of Little Englanders..............
Little Englanders are as patriotic and as loyal to their own people and identity as the Scots, yet we never hear the words little Scotlanders directed at them , do we.? The Scots are so concerned for their separate identity that they have formed a political party, called the Scottish Nationalist party seek independence from the foreign English. Leave out the snide remarks please, and maintain the level playing field.
If your honest Tiger, anti English attitudes are growing according to reports in some newspapers and many see the English as foreigners. How would you like it if The English emigrat4ed to Scotland in numbers, and then decided the political agenda or which party should be in power?
I'm English , not Passport British with my nationality to be decided by the granting of a passport. I put my own people before others, just like the Scottish Nationalists do.
That does not make me racist, or xenophobic, it makes me loyal to my culture and people. I shall do what I think is right, without disparaging or insulting or wilfully hurting anyone. anyone else in the process .
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krugerman
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The government should be worried about foreign residents in the general election, because most of them will not be voting Conservative, and here s why.

There are actually quite a large number of foreign residents in the United Kingdom who are not British citizens, but who have the right to remain here, and if you are a citizen from a Commonwealth country, you can vote here.

The right to vote in national elections is a long standing reciprocal agreement between the member states of The Commonwealth, there are actually hundreds of thousands of British people who vote in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.

The largest single employer of citizens from Commonwealth countries in the UK is the National Health Service, where 11% of all staff and over a quarter of all doctors are non-British.

Think about it - NHS workers - election - Conservative Party ? - I really dont think so
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RJD
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Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
There was I thinking it was the left wing retards who don't want immigrants.

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rizzo
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Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:21 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
it seems that our countries destiny will no longer be in our hands, and the General election will be decided by immigrants.
Translation, we might get a Labour government.
You might be surprised at how many Asian immigrants are natural Tories as many are shopkeepers and entrepeneurs.
Also many are against uncontrolled immigration.
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Affa
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I sort of cannot escape thinking that it is the Wealthiest 1% that will continue to determine election results - as they have been for generations now.



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RJD
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Affa
Jan 31 2015, 02:36 PM
I sort of cannot escape thinking that it is the Wealthiest 1% that will continue to determine election results - as they have been for generations now.



How is that even possible? Surely not another conspiracy? "The Great Election Robbery", perhaps.
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krugerman
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RJD
Jan 31 2015, 01:55 PM
krugerman
Jan 31 2015, 01:52 PM
The government should be worried about foreign residents in the general election, because most of them will not be voting Conservative, and here s why.

There are actually quite a large number of foreign residents in the United Kingdom who are not British citizens, but who have the right to remain here, and if you are a citizen from a Commonwealth country, you can vote here.

The right to vote in national elections is a long standing reciprocal agreement between the member states of The Commonwealth, there are actually hundreds of thousands of British people who vote in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.

The largest single employer of citizens from Commonwealth countries in the UK is the National Health Service, where 11% of all staff and over a quarter of all doctors are non-British.

Think about it - NHS workers - election - Conservative Party ? - I really dont think so
NHS workers who do not want to see reforms and a customers focussed service will obviously vote Labour. Why should NHS Workers put Patients first?

I know of many foreign born and non-British NHS workers, and I can assure you that the reason none of them will be voting Conservative, is not because they are thinking of themselves (as you suggest), it is because they are thinking of the NHS, the patients and the future of healthcare in this country.

They ( the health workers ) are fed up of government interference, fed up of reorganisation, fed up of cuts, savings, directives on when you CAN prescribe certain drugs, when you CANNOT prescribe certain drugs, they are fed up of been treated like shit by this government.

They are fed up of been blamed, vilified, accused, fed up of the lies, they are getting frustrated at not been able to give or offer the right treatment, proper care, no beds, bed-blocking caused by cuts, they are fed up of regrading - excuses to lower pay and expectations for people who have trained for many years to make people better, to care.

So here s a toast to all the NHS workers up and down the country who will not be voting Conservative.
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Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
Well said, my friend, well said. Hammer nail, hit, head!
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants . . .
And in other news it could also be decided by people called John (great for JofG if true but bit of a pisser for me, Jessamy, Lilly etc)

And of course by the left handed

And those who watch Coronation Street with their dinner on their laps

Not to mention blondes or NHS workers or football supporters or even people who were alive on D-Day etc etc. And don't get me on people that have read Harry Potter

In a close campaign it could be misleadingly perceived as decided by any group that in number are higher than the difference in the top two parties vote.

As the phrase goes "No shit Sherlock"



Edited by Steve K, Jan 31 2015, 03:14 PM.
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Affa
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RJD
Jan 31 2015, 02:41 PM
Affa
Jan 31 2015, 02:36 PM
I sort of cannot escape thinking that it is the Wealthiest 1% that will continue to determine election results - as they have been for generations now.



How is that even possible? Surely not another conspiracy? "The Great Election Robbery", perhaps.

On May 8th you will be given the choice of who to represent you in Parliament. Will you have chosen the candidates or will they be chosen for you?
The Party system establishes that our choices are limited to 'who will stand'.
Who will stand is decided by funding, and those with most funds will present the most candidates - and those funding candidates will have their own motivations for doing so - money matters. And the wealthy can and do afford a lot of interest in who we are able to select.
Oh, and they also own the media "It Was the SUN that Won it". No coyness there!

David Cameron was destined for Parliament before he was old enough to vote, and long before he had any understanding of what would be required of him on reaching that position.
He was chosen many years before you or I were asked if he should represent us.

Money chose him, or to be precise those with lots of money mentored him.






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somersetli
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somersetli
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krugerman
Jan 31 2015, 02:49 PM
RJD
Jan 31 2015, 01:55 PM
krugerman
Jan 31 2015, 01:52 PM
The government should be worried about foreign residents in the general election, because most of them will not be voting Conservative, and here s why.

There are actually quite a large number of foreign residents in the United Kingdom who are not British citizens, but who have the right to remain here, and if you are a citizen from a Commonwealth country, you can vote here.

The right to vote in national elections is a long standing reciprocal agreement between the member states of The Commonwealth, there are actually hundreds of thousands of British people who vote in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.

The largest single employer of citizens from Commonwealth countries in the UK is the National Health Service, where 11% of all staff and over a quarter of all doctors are non-British.

Think about it - NHS workers - election - Conservative Party ? - I really dont think so
NHS workers who do not want to see reforms and a customers focussed service will obviously vote Labour. Why should NHS Workers put Patients first?

I know of many foreign born and non-British NHS workers, and I can assure you that the reason none of them will be voting Conservative, is not because they are thinking of themselves (as you suggest), it is because they are thinking of the NHS, the patients and the future of healthcare in this country.

They ( the health workers ) are fed up of government interference, fed up of reorganisation, fed up of cuts, savings, directives on when you CAN prescribe certain drugs, when you CANNOT prescribe certain drugs, they are fed up of been treated like shit by this government.

They are fed up of been blamed, vilified, accused, fed up of the lies, they are getting frustrated at not been able to give or offer the right treatment, proper care, no beds, bed-blocking caused by cuts, they are fed up of regrading - excuses to lower pay and expectations for people who have trained for many years to make people better, to care.

So here s a toast to all the NHS workers up and down the country who will not be voting Conservative.
I cannot believe that you, or anybody else, is under the delusion that any future UK government will not interfere with the NHS.
It is a political football and always has been.

No UK government, whatever their political leaning, would just leave the NHS to get on with running itself. It is, after all, taxpayer funded and you would expect, no probably insist, that the government runs it. They are not going to let any Tom, Dick, or Harry loose with taxpayers cash to do with as they please.
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ranger121
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Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:13 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants . . .
And in other news it could also be decided by people called John (great for JofG if true but bit of a pisser for me, Jessamy, Lilly etc)

And of course by the left handed

And those who watch Coronation Street with their dinner on their laps

Not to mention blondes or NHS workers or football supporters or even people who were alive on D-Day etc etc. And don't get me on people that have read Harry Potter

In a close campaign it could be misleadingly perceived as decided by any group that in number are higher than the difference in the top two parties vote.

As the phrase goes "No shit Sherlock"



As it is a secret ballot, how does one possibly come to a conclusion?
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papasmurf
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RJD
Jan 31 2015, 02:41 PM
How is that even possible?
They control the media.
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ranger121
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papasmurf
Jan 31 2015, 04:53 PM
RJD
Jan 31 2015, 02:41 PM
How is that even possible?
They control the media.
They don't control the internet.

Just glad we who have set this site up don't live in Saudi Arabia.
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krugerman
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somersetli
Jan 31 2015, 03:19 PM
krugerman
Jan 31 2015, 02:49 PM
RJD
Jan 31 2015, 01:55 PM
krugerman
Jan 31 2015, 01:52 PM
The government should be worried about foreign residents in the general election, because most of them will not be voting Conservative, and here s why.

There are actually quite a large number of foreign residents in the United Kingdom who are not British citizens, but who have the right to remain here, and if you are a citizen from a Commonwealth country, you can vote here.

The right to vote in national elections is a long standing reciprocal agreement between the member states of The Commonwealth, there are actually hundreds of thousands of British people who vote in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.

The largest single employer of citizens from Commonwealth countries in the UK is the National Health Service, where 11% of all staff and over a quarter of all doctors are non-British.

Think about it - NHS workers - election - Conservative Party ? - I really dont think so
NHS workers who do not want to see reforms and a customers focussed service will obviously vote Labour. Why should NHS Workers put Patients first?

I know of many foreign born and non-British NHS workers, and I can assure you that the reason none of them will be voting Conservative, is not because they are thinking of themselves (as you suggest), it is because they are thinking of the NHS, the patients and the future of healthcare in this country.

They ( the health workers ) are fed up of government interference, fed up of reorganisation, fed up of cuts, savings, directives on when you CAN prescribe certain drugs, when you CANNOT prescribe certain drugs, they are fed up of been treated like shit by this government.

They are fed up of been blamed, vilified, accused, fed up of the lies, they are getting frustrated at not been able to give or offer the right treatment, proper care, no beds, bed-blocking caused by cuts, they are fed up of regrading - excuses to lower pay and expectations for people who have trained for many years to make people better, to care.

So here s a toast to all the NHS workers up and down the country who will not be voting Conservative.
I cannot believe that you, or anybody else, is under the delusion that any future UK government will not interfere with the NHS.
It is a political football and always has been.

No UK government, whatever their political leaning, would just leave the NHS to get on with running itself. It is, after all, taxpayer funded and you would expect, no probably insist, that the government runs it. They are not going to let any Tom, Dick, or Harry loose with taxpayers cash to do with as they please.
The problem now, is that unlike before, the government is interfering in clinical and medical decision making, and I shall give you just one example here of what I mean.

A highly qualified medical consultant in a hospital decides to prescribe a particular medicine to a patient, a manager then approaches that consultant to enquire as to whether there is a real need to prescribe that particular medicine, because it is a fairly expensive drug.

Under pressure, that particular consultant decides to withdraw the drug and instead try a different, or less effective drug, but two days later the patient who had previously responded well to the previous treatment jumps off a stairwell causing serious injuries to him/herself, and so instead of that patient costing the NHS X amount on drugs only, now ends up costing the NHS considerably more in operations, physiotherapy and care due to broken bones.

The above is not only an example of how the government is interfering in medical decisions, it actually happened.

I agree that the government should be ultimately responsible for the NHS as a state owned institution, but it should leave clinical decisions to doctors and nurses, and managers and administrators should not be proxies for implementing government directives on the wards, operating theatres or consulting rooms.



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ranger121
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The above is not only an example of how the government is interfering in medical decisions, it actually happened.


I have no doubt that the events actually happened.

The point should be that the Hospital Administrator may well be working to the assumption that many thousands spent saving one patient could be used to save many others.

The hospital management are responsible for the distribution of their budget. If they decide they cannot afford to treat the patient, there's not much anyone can do.

It's not government interference in clinical decison-making, for the bean-counters aren't employed by them. It's the NHS budget system. Post-code lottery, as they say.
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somersetli
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I would certainly agree that clinical decisions are best left to medical professionals, but there still has to be a limit on what can be spent, and somebody has to try to keep to a budget.
Everything is run to a budget, Police, Defence, Education...........even our own personal finances have to be kept to within what we can afford. That will not change no matter what government is in office.
As to your example, it seems to me the manager was quite right to query whether the drug recommended by the consultant was the only way to treat the patient.
Why could the consultant not have said "yes that is the only way". Unless of course you mean that the manager refused to allow that treatment because of the expense.
Regarding the patient throwing himself off the stairwell, if he/she was that unbalanced they might have done that anyway, drug or no drug. Your example is not very clear in that respect.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:13 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants . . .
And in other news it could also be decided by people called John (great for JofG if true but bit of a pisser for me, Jessamy, Lilly etc)

And of course by the left handed

And those who watch Coronation Street with their dinner on their laps

Not to mention blondes or NHS workers or football supporters or even people who were alive on D-Day etc etc. And don't get me on people that have read Harry Potter

In a close campaign it could be misleadingly perceived as decided by any group that in number are higher than the difference in the top two parties vote.

As the phrase goes "No shit Sherlock"



You forgot to mention elderly right wing retards. ;-)

There does seem to be rather a lot of them about at the moment, a cold snap generally thins the herd though.
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somersetli
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Tigger
Jan 31 2015, 10:32 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:13 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants . . .
And in other news it could also be decided by people called John (great for JofG if true but bit of a pisser for me, Jessamy, Lilly etc)

And of course by the left handed

And those who watch Coronation Street with their dinner on their laps

Not to mention blondes or NHS workers or football supporters or even people who were alive on D-Day etc etc. And don't get me on people that have read Harry Potter

In a close campaign it could be misleadingly perceived as decided by any group that in number are higher than the difference in the top two parties vote.

As the phrase goes "No shit Sherlock"



You forgot to mention elderly right wing retards. ;-)

There does seem to be rather a lot of them about at the moment, a cold snap generally thins the herd though.
With regard to your obvious enjoyment of the fact that the cold weather might kill off the elderly, I can't help thinking that your own parents/grandparents must be extremely proud of you.

The only flaw in your twisted point of of view is that Jack Frost makes no distinction between the political beliefs of his victims.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for such vindictive views.
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Tigger
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somersetli
Feb 1 2015, 10:01 AM
Tigger
Jan 31 2015, 10:32 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2015, 03:13 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 05:41 PM
On BBC TV News this morning at about 9-10am, so you can look for yourself, they announced that a research group claimed that the next general election could be decided by immigrants . . .
And in other news it could also be decided by people called John (great for JofG if true but bit of a pisser for me, Jessamy, Lilly etc)

And of course by the left handed

And those who watch Coronation Street with their dinner on their laps

Not to mention blondes or NHS workers or football supporters or even people who were alive on D-Day etc etc. And don't get me on people that have read Harry Potter

In a close campaign it could be misleadingly perceived as decided by any group that in number are higher than the difference in the top two parties vote.

As the phrase goes "No shit Sherlock"



You forgot to mention elderly right wing retards. ;-)

There does seem to be rather a lot of them about at the moment, a cold snap generally thins the herd though.
With regard to your obvious enjoyment of the fact that the cold weather might kill off the elderly, I can't help thinking that your own parents/grandparents must be extremely proud of you.

The only flaw in your twisted point of of view is that Jack Frost makes no distinction between the political beliefs of his victims.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for such vindictive views.
As a right winger yourself I thought you'd applaud my views!  :o

After all elderly socialists will be poor and would have been lazy throughout their intermittent working lives so will in all probability be poncing off of the hard presses taxpayer, unlike of course salt of the earth conservative types who would have saved for a rainy day and now have nice warm homes.

Common sense innit.
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C-too
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somersetli
Jan 31 2015, 11:04 AM
I think you are confusing the EU with the European Economic Community.
The decision to remain in that organisation was decided by a referendum of the UK electorate, who were urged to vote in favour of remaining in by, the then, Labour government. Plus almost the entire news media.
I believe the Economic community had all the present day problems as part of their future agenda.
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Feb 1 2015, 10:49 AM


After all elderly socialists will be poor and would have been lazy throughout their intermittent working lives so will in all probability be poncing off of the hard presses taxpayer, unlike of course salt of the earth conservative types who would have saved for a rainy day and now have nice warm homes.

Common sense innit.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 31 2015, 01:29 PM
C-too
Jan 31 2015, 10:35 AM
Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
If your claim that immigration i.e. being a member of the EU is destroying the British character then you need to look at the individuals who recommended the EU become a reality, and who took us into the EU. IIRC that would be Winston Churchill and Edward Heath.
We voted to be part of a common market, There has never been a referendum on becoming membership of the EU or its centralised EU government. has there?
I'm told the aims of the Common Market have not changed.
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C-too
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RJD
Jan 31 2015, 02:41 PM
Affa
Jan 31 2015, 02:36 PM
I sort of cannot escape thinking that it is the Wealthiest 1% that will continue to determine election results - as they have been for generations now.



How is that even possible? Surely not another conspiracy? "The Great Election Robbery", perhaps.
It's called the Money Power. The ownership, control or influence of much of the media. The ownership/access to the best placard sites, are two examples.
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C-too
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Rich
Jan 31 2015, 12:56 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 30 2015, 11:58 PM
Tigger
Jan 30 2015, 07:23 PM
ranger121
Jan 30 2015, 07:02 PM
Let's see, Immigrants with votes.

In order to have a vote, they must have permanent residence, permission to stay, a job, taxes, a NINO and British Citizenship in most cases. They're not immigrants, they're British Citizens who have the right to vote whichever way they choose.


Facts like these ^ are wasted on some people.


"Foreigners" are not welcome by some right wing retards.
Just Google it and see how many sites are saying the same thing. I see that facts are rejected and not for discussion by those who claim everyone must be racist or right wing retards for doing so, just in the same way anyone who tried to raise the discussion on immigration was called racist by the left.
Par for the course.
One is not allowed to question Left wing dogma without being labelled a racist, it was ever thus since PC took centre stage with NL, it saves having to answer awkward pragmatic questions that might just reveal the true aim of the so called centrists who at heart are left wing commies.

And I always thought that Universities would produce peoples that would benefit this country instead of trying to destroy it and it's British Characteristics.
One is allowed to question any dogma from any area of politics. What one should not do is to insinuate that centre left politics is left wing dogma.

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C-too
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papasmurf
Feb 1 2015, 10:56 AM
Tigger
Feb 1 2015, 10:49 AM


After all elderly socialists will be poor and would have been lazy throughout their intermittent working lives so will in all probability be poncing off of the hard presses taxpayer, unlike of course salt of the earth conservative types who would have saved for a rainy day and now have nice warm homes.

Common sense innit.
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I think that should shut the mouths of many of the greedy along with those not so greedy but who have been misled by right-wing so called newspapers.
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