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| The pay squeeze | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 31 2015, 08:37 AM (369 Views) | |
| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 08:37 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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According to the Bank of England, there are four reasons why wage growth has remained weak:
Read: The truth about Britain's pay squeeze.
I wonder what the Red Nag Myth Factory has to say about the above? As part of the necessary rebalancing of the economy based on consumption fuelled by debt we will see another 1m removed from the Public Sector in the next 5 years and the question is "will these people, in hopefully jobs that create exportable wealth, be able to attract wages in the private sector that they enjoyed in the public one, because if they do not they too will be seen as reducing wages. Devil is always in the details. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 31 2015, 09:06 AM Post #2 |
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Senior Member
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Odd you believe the Telegraph when there is no evidence whatsoever the lowering/cutting of benefits is forcing/incentivising anyone into work. The hard fact is, no-one can get a job unless they are offered one, even stopping benefits altogether does not, and has not been doing that. I am not posting the references for that twice RJD as I not only posted the references, I copied and pasted from them so you can't come back with the excuse you have not read them. |
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| Lewis | Jan 31 2015, 09:12 AM Post #3 |
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Senior Member
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More obfuscation from the Torygraphs biggest fan. However these are opinions derived from a few facts. I know people who haven't had a increase in renumeration since 2008, yet their employers are making quite healthy profits. We are told that average pay growth is currently 1.7%, somewhat at odds with Giddies 4.15%. We are told that the 1.7% level of increase could fizzle out if inflation falls further. All conjecture, seemingly a fallacy put forward by the regulars that frequent the Cherrypickers Arms. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 31 2015, 09:17 AM Post #4 |
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Senior Member
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The Torygraph has been the Tory version of Pravda over the last couple of months. It appears the Tories are using the Telegraph to get around the spending limits allowed for election campaigning. |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 02:05 PM Post #5 |
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Senior Member
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And another RJD 'Sounds Like' load of Tory spin that encourages the Tory faithful but leaves the rest of us cold. There are more than four reasons why wages have been squeezed ..... but can the BoE count above 4? Edited by Affa, Jan 31 2015, 02:10 PM.
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 02:07 PM Post #6 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I think you will find that the reference was Bank of England. |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 02:13 PM Post #7 |
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Senior Member
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And what should we make of that iyo? When quite obviously the main reasons for wages being suppressed are not even referred to in this article. Oh, and pointing to the BoE I discover is another misrepresentation I discover. Do you have a conscience? Edited by Affa, Jan 31 2015, 02:21 PM.
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 02:14 PM Post #8 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Are you now claiming that the Bank of England is conspiring with the Tory Party? My goodness why is it every time the Usuals hear or read something they dislike they scream "conspiracy"? On this forum, over the last year, I have seen every source of what one considered to be reliable information, such as ONS, OBR, HMRC and others rubbished by Usuals, but never ever with any evidence. Me thinks the problem is not with these organisations, but a problem with the left handling truths that do not fit their dogma. If anyone things that the Bank of England has conspired with Gov. and/or that it's claims are wrong then best show some evidence. As I am beginning to wonder about the mental health of a number of the Usuals. |
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| Steve K | Jan 31 2015, 02:17 PM Post #9 |
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Once and future cynic
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"No evidence whatsoever"? There you go contradicting yourself.
How lucky that they can treat schizophrenia nowadays |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 02:25 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Member
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Now you must show where it is the BoE making these claims ...... and is not the spin put on its its research. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 31 2015, 02:28 PM Post #11 |
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Senior Member
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How lucky that they can treat schizophrenia nowadays [/quote]I am not contradicting myself at all, which is why I put stampeded in quotes. A "stampede" implies every one who was capped besieged their nearest JobCentre. That did not happen. |
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 02:29 PM Post #12 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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So your claim is that the Bank of England could not have said such words and unless you see them with your own eyes then you will not believe them? Well Affa you know exactly what you need to do in order to dispel your addiction to conspiracy and it will only take you a few minutes of your time. |
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 02:31 PM Post #13 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I doubt that any stampeded, but a considerable number were pushed. |
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| Steve K | Jan 31 2015, 02:32 PM Post #14 |
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Once and future cynic
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It's Saturday, it's football day so how fitting that you choose today to go moving goalposts One minute you say ~2,000 and then you say no evidence of any whatsoever. If you can't see how that massive self contradiction shows you up to be a poster of bollocks then we have even more evidence that you are not English. |
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| krugerman | Jan 31 2015, 02:35 PM Post #15 |
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Regular Member
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I have never read such a load of old boloney in my life, when the government refuses to accept the recommendations of an independent pay body to give hundreds of thousands of health care workers a meagre 1%, and this after 4 years of pay freezes and below inflation rises, you expect us to believe this rubbish. ? But then of course it was in The Daily Telegraph By here own admission, the reporter here acknowledges that it might be true, that its at least negligible, patchy, arguable and in other words open to many interpretations. At a time when there are a record number of people on zero hours contracts, at a time when the number of casual and agency staff is at an all time record, and after taking away many basic employment rights, never before in modern times have so many people felt so insecure in work. If we want real progress, we need to help business, create the right conditions for business, but also to treat people fairly <- oh! that word again ( fair - fairness - fairly ), when are the Conservatives going to legislate against zero hours contracts , when are they going to make equal the rights of agency workers with directly employed workers ? The answer is a song by Johnny Mathis "The 12th of never" |
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 02:39 PM Post #16 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Although I have no professional qualifications to support such analysis, I am of the opinion that Mr Smurf has an aversion towards work and anyone who works for a living. He gives the impression that his personal paradise would be when everyone in the country is able to live a life, a good life. on welfare benefits, paid for by God knows. We could call it "The Good Life". Whilst I believe that jobs are the best social salve it appears that he believes the exact opposite. |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 02:58 PM Post #17 |
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It wasn't a 'claim', it is disbelief ........ and I note you are unable to remove that disbelief I have. I even suspect you do not believe it either, do not at all accept that the BoE made these idiotically inconclusive determinations of why UK wages have fallen in real terms. |
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 03:03 PM Post #18 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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If you are not prepared to invest in your own education then why should I? I have no reason to believe that the references provided by me are anything other than attributable to the source. I am not interested in feeding those that live their lives based on conspiracy. So go to it, they call it Googling and here the words to type in are "Bank of England". |
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| Deleted User | Jan 31 2015, 03:04 PM Post #19 |
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Deleted User
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RJD, it is entirely predictable that when faced with news which challenges the ideological dogma of the left wing knuckle draggers on this forum and demonstrates that the Coalition has made and continues to make economic progress they will resort to any means and argument however far fetched to attempt to denigrate and discredit that news. The particularly moronic elements appear to believe that reputable newspapers like the Daily Telegraph actually make up the news and have no reputable sources sich as the ONS or the IFS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30019259 http://news.sky.com/story/1371766/cost-of-living-pay-rises-outpace-inflation http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/24/uk-average-workers-pay-rise-inflation http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2877260/Surprise-jump-wages-delivers-inflation-pay-rise-unemployment-steady-6.html Even the mealy mouthed 'Grauniad' can be quoted as reporting the facts albeit spun into the least positive impression they could create. The 'Grauniad', once a respected liberal newspaper, pinned its colours to the mast when it published highly sensitive security information thus engangering the lives of the normal people of this country from an increased risk of terrorism. What a rag it has become! |
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| C-too | Jan 31 2015, 03:21 PM Post #20 |
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Honourable Member
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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I retired in 2008, I was seventy years old at the time and but for the firm I did most of my work with folding in 2008 I would still be working there today. I worked beyond retirement age for no other reason than I wanted to and I have no doubt that many other people did exactly that which is a point that is omitted from the comment. This I suspect suggests that the author was working to a political agenda, or his comment has been cut short. Not a good start as it casts another political shadow on the honesty or objectivity of the telegraph. |
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| RJD | Jan 31 2015, 03:23 PM Post #21 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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True Major, but I live in hope that one day they will rise above their dogma. That said I am old enough to know better. I recall the Grauniad when it was The Manhcetser Grauniad, a fine liberal Newspaper that was the staple of our household, but I am afraid it managed to dumb itself down in London and became addicted to that failed dogma. I recall Cardus's writings on music, in the 1950s, and he might have been the one who first brought Gustav Mahler to my notice. Did he also comment on cricket? I think so, my elder brother, was a fan. |
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| Steve K | Jan 31 2015, 03:26 PM Post #22 |
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Once and future cynic
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I read the Grauniad most days. They send me an email digest and a link to their web site. All for free. As papers go it is far far better than the Telegraph as a challenge to my staunchly centrist views so I learn more from them than the Daily T and Misery put together. |
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| papasmurf | Jan 31 2015, 03:36 PM Post #23 |
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The Telegraph over the last few months has become a right wing version of Pravda. It has allowed Tory Politicians and right wing columnists to come out with propaganda with nothing to back it up, and readers can't challenge it because there is no reply allowed to the articles on the website. |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 03:57 PM Post #24 |
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1607881/When-UK-rates-rise.html This is the reported content of analysis report of the BoE that does establish that the wage squeeze is critical in why the UK recovery is fragile and weak. Nowhere is there any reference to the 'four reasons' as to why wages remain low. |
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| krugerman | Jan 31 2015, 04:59 PM Post #25 |
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Here are some extracts taken from the article in The Telegraph, which RJD believes is proof that we are all now heading to the land of milk and honey. "The jury is still out on whether this rise is sustainable. Pay reviews for many workers are coming up, and it remains to be seen whether low inflation - which could turn negative in the coming months - will translate into little or no pay growth for workers whose pay is linked to prices" "Make no mistake. Workers have endured the longest pay squeeze on record" "Median hourly pay has fallen by 4.7pc since 2008" "The IFS calculated that the bottom 10pc of earners saw their hourly wages fall by 3.3pc in real terms between 2008 and 2014" All I can say is that it sure dosent look too rosy from the way I read it, but then again its the half empty bottle scenario, or should that be "half full", its the way you look at things isent it really, but the bottom line is that there is really very little to cheer about, and I can assure you that very few low paid people feel they are suddenly better off. |
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| Affa | Jan 31 2015, 06:18 PM Post #26 |
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How to spin a BoE report ...... Take four of the consequences of wages being in decline, and announce them as THE four reasons wages are in decline. |
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| Tigger | Jan 31 2015, 07:23 PM Post #27 |
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This is almost funny in it's desperation! Here are some basic facts to mull over before the poor start breaking out the champers and heading off to the local Mercedes dealership, wages are in real terms lower than in 2008, the better off including me are doing great because we got a tax cut for just doing what we always do, enriching ourselves, we have taxpayer subsidies on a now vast scale supporting inflated house prices (benefits predominantly the better off, remember now?) further education is rapidly sliding out of reach even for the offspring of middle classes now, and the "recovery" has seen a vast increase in unskilled non jobs consummate with the stagnant or falling levels of productivity, all we need now is for a Conservative minister to suggest that the unemployed be pressed into immediate domestic service! File under how to keep the plates spinning for another 99 days and order a skip for the inevitable mess to come. |
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| Lewis | Feb 1 2015, 08:26 AM Post #28 |
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Well spinning is about the only thing Scameron is any good at. Regarding everything else, he is total crap! |
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| RJD | Feb 1 2015, 12:54 PM Post #29 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No that is one of the reports, dig deeper. |
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| Tigger | Feb 1 2015, 12:55 PM Post #30 |
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No, you tell us what we are supposedly missing, if you are capable that is........ |
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| Affa | Feb 1 2015, 01:31 PM Post #31 |
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These four reasons are are in fact consequences of wages being low the cause of which is the recession from the bankers screw up. Government policy (austerity) also ensures wages remain low, with immigration adding to jobs being scarce. I do not believe the BoE policy committee are blind to that. 'Work Doesn't Pay a Living Wage' for millions in work. The BoE got that right. |
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| RJD | Feb 1 2015, 04:25 PM Post #32 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No. Its time you demonstrated you can do some research. Thus far all I have seen are vague references to a Student Satirical Magazine and Red Nag Myths. |
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| Affa | Feb 1 2015, 04:44 PM Post #33 |
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Senior Member
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You are not dumb enough to believe that the four stated reasons are the actual reasons why wages have fallen in real terms, are you? Edited by Affa, Feb 1 2015, 04:47 PM.
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| Tigger | Feb 1 2015, 06:42 PM Post #34 |
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Senior Member
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Not mentioned it at all in this context, like to have another go or would you rather us draw our own conclusions when you refuse to answer a straightforward point? File under cut and paste merchant............. |
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