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I like the sound of that!
Topic Started: Feb 4 2015, 08:28 AM (338 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Quote:
 
Labour’s plan: a plan to help businesses create and fill more productive, high-skilled jobs.”
- Rachel Reeves

But what is it as I need to check whether there is any substance to the claim of just another sound bite developed at the Red Nag Myths Factory. What is it Labour are going to do to create these jobs that require high skills? Are they going to create more wealth in order to create taxable revenues and rebalance our economy?



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papasmurf
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Link?
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Pro Veritas
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He's never going to post a link to something that even he sees as mildly positive about Labour.

He'll post links to the latest round of IDS's massaged figures though, especially if they are in the Torygraph.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Google is your friend

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-2938816/Tories-raise-benefits-bill.html

(urgghhh a DM link, I feel soiled)
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
The number of people IN WORK and getting housing benefit has risen substantially:-

There is a lot of detail in the link, but just a snippet here:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/369448/in-work-hb-analysis-ad-hoc-nov-2014.pdf

8. The published data shows that in the last five years there has been an increase in the number of in-work HB claimants, from 439,000 at the end of 2008 to 1,059,000 in May 2014.
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Tytoalba
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Pro Veritas
Feb 4 2015, 09:59 AM
He's never going to post a link to something that even he sees as mildly positive about Labour.

He'll post links to the latest round of IDS's massaged figures though, especially if they are in the Torygraph.

All The Best
I am will be pleased to post links that are positive to labour, especially as they have a chance of getting into government after the election, but are there any?
I'm not happy with 10 year plans, or promises for the future, or schemes that will get the votes but increase the national debt and reduce growth
I want the best for Britain, and labour is not it.
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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

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ACH1967
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

ahh the old "propaganda" gambit with the "your niaive" barb for good measure.
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

I have no doubt that there is political bias in Newspapers, just as there are politically biased people on this board, but when there are contributors biased or otherwise. members of political parties or otherwise, there will be objective as well as subjective reporting, as well independent views.
I will read any newspaper I come across and make my own judgements, always taking into account the possibility of bias.
To say any newspaper makes one sick. and refuse to read it when there are pages of content on different subjects and by different contributors does seem to me to suggest a closed mind.
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ACH1967
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 12:13 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

I have no doubt that there is political bias in Newspapers, just as there are politically biased people on this board, but when there are contributors biased or otherwise. members of political parties or otherwise, there will be objective as well as subjective reporting, as well independent views.
I will read any newspaper I come across and make my own judgements, always taking into account the possibility of bias.
To say any newspaper makes one sick. and refuse to read it when there are pages of content on different subjects and by different contributors does seem to me to suggest a closed mind.
I imagine there is a balance to be struck. Experience tends to bear out that most stuff printed in the DM is awful and cringe inducing. If you have links to articles where you do not beleive this to be the case then I am open to being proved wrong.
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C-too
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ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 11:59 AM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

ahh the old "propaganda" gambit with the "your niaive" barb for good measure.
So you are amongst the naïve referred to.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 12:13 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

I have no doubt that there is political bias in Newspapers, just as there are politically biased people on this board, but when there are contributors biased or otherwise. members of political parties or otherwise, there will be objective as well as subjective reporting, as well independent views.
I will read any newspaper I come across and make my own judgements, always taking into account the possibility of bias.
To say any newspaper makes one sick. and refuse to read it when there are pages of content on different subjects and by different contributors does seem to me to suggest a closed mind.
The Mail is in many ways a good newspaper, until it comes to politics. I used to be a regular reader of the Mail, many many years ago. I stopped reading it many years ago because I could not stand the bias. I refuse to be insulted by opinions pretending to be facts. IMO, because of the level of absence of objectivity in newspapers, they do a lot of damage to our democracy. They feed the divisions in society when IMO they should be helping to create a one nation society.
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ACH1967
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 11:59 AM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

ahh the old "propaganda" gambit with the "your niaive" barb for good measure.
So you are amongst the naïve referred to.
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 01:08 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 12:13 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Are you really naïve enough to believe that the political bias in newspapers 1. is accidental ? 2. has no influence on any of those who read it ?

I have no doubt that there is political bias in Newspapers, just as there are politically biased people on this board, but when there are contributors biased or otherwise. members of political parties or otherwise, there will be objective as well as subjective reporting, as well independent views.
I will read any newspaper I come across and make my own judgements, always taking into account the possibility of bias.
To say any newspaper makes one sick. and refuse to read it when there are pages of content on different subjects and by different contributors does seem to me to suggest a closed mind.
The Mail is in many ways a good newspaper, until it comes to politics. I used to be a regular reader of the Mail, many many years ago. I stopped reading it many years ago because I could not stand the bias. I refuse to be insulted by opinions pretending to be facts. IMO, because of the level of absence of objectivity in newspapers, they do a lot of damage to our democracy. They feed the divisions in society when IMO they should be helping to create a one nation society.
In your opinion Ctoo. Perhaps your main objection is that they have influence to get people to vote for a party you disapprove of. It does not mean they are factually inaccurate. I expect your paper of choice is the observer, that is reputed to be biased in an opposite way.
Papers are there to make a profit, so present the news that people want to read in a way most approve of.
Murdock in particular works that strategy , and will change sides.
When labour is so anti business and profit, it seems that he will not be alone. To attack businesses owned by people of influence and often very rich seems to be a stupid way to go.
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Affa
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It's why there is the criticism that the Tories get their policies from the Daily Mail editorial staff.
More austerity as George Osborne has insisted will follow his re-election to office will undoubtedly lead to higher welfare spending, less treasury income, and slower growth ...... not exactly a plan to reduce the deficit and pay off the debts.

Any plan that sees jobs created, jobs that pay, and improves skills levels is a winner. It's called investment.


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RJD
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There was I thinking at long last I was about to alight on a Labour strategy with some merit, but I see that the Usuals are not able to put any meat on this bone, so best assume it is no more than a sound-bite. Funny I would have thought that they would have jumped on this one.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 02:38 PM
There was I thinking at long last I was about to alight on a Labour strategy with some merit,
Let me know when you alight on a Tory policy that has some merit.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Feb 4 2015, 02:41 PM
RJD
Feb 4 2015, 02:38 PM
There was I thinking at long last I was about to alight on a Labour strategy with some merit,
Let me know when you alight on a Tory policy that has some merit.
I think that reducing the public sector deficit has merit. I think the reducing the public sector merit at a faster pace than that offered by Labour has merit. I think that the welfare reforms have merit as it cannot be sensible for us to make welfare benefits a life-style choice. I believe that the NHS required and still requires fundamental reforms if it is ever to make patients the focus of activities and improve the quality of services. Need I go on?

However, from Milliband all we hear are sound-bites to rev up the Usuals with the latest being "lets bash a businessman, a foreign businessman who does not live or vote in the UK, because he had the temerity to claim that proposed Labour policies would be a disaster for the UK. Thats it, the Mr Smurf trick of playing the man rather than the ball.



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Affa
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 02:54 PM
I think that reducing the public sector deficit has merit. I think the reducing the public sector merit at a faster pace than that offered by Labour has merit.

So do I, so do we all. But that speedier reduction was all rhetoric, is just rhetoric, and has no merit other than to persuade people like you that the Tories 'mean what they say'.
We've seen it, have proof of it, and as with cutting NET immigration to tens of thousands, there just isn't any meat on it.


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papasmurf
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 02:54 PM
I think that the welfare reforms have merit as it cannot be sensible for us to make welfare benefits a life-style choice.
As soon as you repeat the propaganda of benefits being a "lifestyle choice," you lose any credibility, especially after this mornings Work and Pensions Committee session.
Which you will not bother to watch.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=17193
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 01:56 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 01:08 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 12:13 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
I have no doubt that there is political bias in Newspapers, just as there are politically biased people on this board, but when there are contributors biased or otherwise. members of political parties or otherwise, there will be objective as well as subjective reporting, as well independent views.
I will read any newspaper I come across and make my own judgements, always taking into account the possibility of bias.
To say any newspaper makes one sick. and refuse to read it when there are pages of content on different subjects and by different contributors does seem to me to suggest a closed mind.
The Mail is in many ways a good newspaper, until it comes to politics. I used to be a regular reader of the Mail, many many years ago. I stopped reading it many years ago because I could not stand the bias. I refuse to be insulted by opinions pretending to be facts. IMO, because of the level of absence of objectivity in newspapers, they do a lot of damage to our democracy. They feed the divisions in society when IMO they should be helping to create a one nation society.
In your opinion Ctoo. Perhaps your main objection is that they have influence to get people to vote for a party you disapprove of. It does not mean they are factually inaccurate. I expect your paper of choice is the observer, that is reputed to be biased in an opposite way.
Papers are there to make a profit, so present the news that people want to read in a way most approve of.
Murdock in particular works that strategy , and will change sides.
When labour is so anti business and profit, it seems that he will not be alone. To attack businesses owned by people of influence and often very rich seems to be a stupid way to go.
Yes in my opinion when I take an objective approach, i.e. honesty and openness. I have not read any so called newspaper on anything like a regular basis since I recognised the damage they do to society. As you suggest profit is their primary purpose, along with reinforcing the bias that exists in their readers.

Most readers will acknowledge newspapers are politically biased. If printing political bias doesn't influence anyone, why do you think they print political bias in newspapers ?

Show me proof of "when Labour is so anti business and profit".
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C-too
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ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 11:59 AM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 11:30 AM
ahh the old "propaganda" gambit with the "your niaive" barb for good measure.
So you are amongst the naïve referred to.
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.
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ACH1967
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 11:59 AM
So you are amongst the naïve referred to.
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.
As you were ignoring Tytos points so I returned the favour...seemed fitting.
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C-too
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ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 04:23 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.
As you were ignoring Tytos points so I returned the favour...seemed fitting.
You point to the post I was ignoring and I will answer it.

I will then expect you to answer the questions in my post. Fair enough ?
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Affa
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 11:59 AM
So you are amongst the naïve referred to.
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.

He's having a bad day C2, keeps opening his mouth but nothing sensible comes out of it.
He had a tantrum at me for no offence at all from me, and does the same with you - just buts in and starts being Nasty. They get from the PM who today once more resorted to a Punch & Judy despatch box performance instead of being open and honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/06/toryleadership2005.conservatives3
Quote:
 

On becoming leader > David Cameron.
I'm fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster, the name calling, backbiting, point scoring, finger pointing.

I want and I will lead a Conservative party that when the government does the right thing, we will work with them, and when they do the wrong thing we will call them to account and criticise them.

We won't play politics with the long-term future of this country


Has there been a more pantomine PM in our history? I don't think so!

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C-too
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Affa
Feb 4 2015, 04:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 12:36 PM
In your eyes no doubt, because I don't agree with you.
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.

He's having a bad day C2, keeps opening his mouth but nothing sensible comes out of it.
He had a tantrum at me for no offence at all from me, and does the same with you - just buts in and starts being Nasty. They get from the PM who today once more resorted to a Punch & Judy despatch box performance instead of being open and honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/06/toryleadership2005.conservatives3
Quote:
 

On becoming leader > David Cameron.
I'm fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster, the name calling, backbiting, point scoring, finger pointing.

I want and I will lead a Conservative party that when the government does the right thing, we will work with them, and when they do the wrong thing we will call them to account and criticise them.

We won't play politics with the long-term future of this country


Has there been a more pantomine PM in our history? I don't think so!

Cameron today was a complete joke, I imagine there are many red faced Tories out there today feeling embarrassed by him.
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Affa
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Today at PMQ the PM fended off questions about Hedge Funds avoiding taxes by accusing Labour of doing nothing in their thirteen years of government.
What is wrong with this apart from NOT answering the question, is that Miliband was specific - he spoke of the 2013 Budget change that gave hedge funds stamp duty EXEMPTION on Stoke Market transactions, worth hundreds of £millions to the tax payer (don't forget the deficit). Labour have not been in government since 2010, so Cameron again misleads the listeners.
Nor did Cameron respond to the fact that these hedge fund companies have donated £47ml to the Tory Party.

Judy may have won after all ..........



Edited by Affa, Feb 4 2015, 04:52 PM.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Feb 4 2015, 03:05 PM
RJD
Feb 4 2015, 02:54 PM
I think that reducing the public sector deficit has merit. I think the reducing the public sector merit at a faster pace than that offered by Labour has merit.

So do I, so do we all. But that speedier reduction was all rhetoric, is just rhetoric, and has no merit other than to persuade people like you that the Tories 'mean what they say'.
We've seen it, have proof of it, and as with cutting NET immigration to tens of thousands, there just isn't any meat on it.


"so do we all" I think not as most on the left think that the revenues required are easy to find. There is no doubt that this Gov. attenuated the debt reduction schedule for a number of reasons:

1). to placate the Lib-Dems
2). because it was/is more difficult than they imagined
3). they realised that it would be a gift for Labour if in 2015 they said "job done"


So we end up around one third of where we need to be. I call that failure. I also believe those that shouted "nasty cuts" are hypocrites when they now shout "public debt too big". I think we can spot quite a few of these both here and in the ranks of the Opposition.

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RJD
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:47 PM
Affa
Feb 4 2015, 04:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM
ACH1967
Feb 4 2015, 01:28 PM
There were two questions in the post you replied to, you ignored both so I think it is fair to think you disagreed with the gist of my post. That left you open to you being one of the people I was referring to.

He's having a bad day C2, keeps opening his mouth but nothing sensible comes out of it.
He had a tantrum at me for no offence at all from me, and does the same with you - just buts in and starts being Nasty. They get from the PM who today once more resorted to a Punch & Judy despatch box performance instead of being open and honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/06/toryleadership2005.conservatives3
Quote:
 

On becoming leader > David Cameron.
I'm fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster, the name calling, backbiting, point scoring, finger pointing.

I want and I will lead a Conservative party that when the government does the right thing, we will work with them, and when they do the wrong thing we will call them to account and criticise them.

We won't play politics with the long-term future of this country


Has there been a more pantomine PM in our history? I don't think so!

Cameron today was a complete joke, I imagine there are many red faced Tories out there today feeling embarrassed by him.
Depends on perspective others think that Cameron, once again, outclassed Milliband. What do they say about baying to the Moon?

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Affa
Senior Member
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Quote:
 
David Cameron has criticised prime minister's questions as a "Roman circus" that is "noisy and crazy and infuriating".


When was this?
It was yesterday on Sky NEWS talking to a young audience.
Today he engaged in a Roman Circus - defined as 'the generation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace'.

That he even knows of the term (I doubt his young audience did) is in itself telling.
He is the superficial PM.

Edited by Affa, Feb 4 2015, 05:05 PM.
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:03 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 01:56 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 01:08 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 12:13 PM
The Mail is in many ways a good newspaper, until it comes to politics. I used to be a regular reader of the Mail, many many years ago. I stopped reading it many years ago because I could not stand the bias. I refuse to be insulted by opinions pretending to be facts. IMO, because of the level of absence of objectivity in newspapers, they do a lot of damage to our democracy. They feed the divisions in society when IMO they should be helping to create a one nation society.
In your opinion Ctoo. Perhaps your main objection is that they have influence to get people to vote for a party you disapprove of. It does not mean they are factually inaccurate. I expect your paper of choice is the observer, that is reputed to be biased in an opposite way.
Papers are there to make a profit, so present the news that people want to read in a way most approve of.
Murdock in particular works that strategy , and will change sides.
When labour is so anti business and profit, it seems that he will not be alone. To attack businesses owned by people of influence and often very rich seems to be a stupid way to go.
Yes in my opinion when I take an objective approach, i.e. honesty and openness. I have not read any so called newspaper on anything like a regular basis since I recognised the damage they do to society. As you suggest profit is their primary purpose, along with reinforcing the bias that exists in their readers.

Most readers will acknowledge newspapers are politically biased. If printing political bias doesn't influence anyone, why do you think they print political bias in newspapers ?

Show me proof of "when Labour is so anti business and profit".
Asking for proof in a specific way is difficult to satisfy, but in recent days two owners or MD of major companies have said so, and have answered Labours protest at what they said.

Their proposals for mansion taxes and the intent to raise the highest income tax band also indicate it IMO
You could do what I just did and Google 'Labours anti business tax plans'
I haven't selected any one for fear of being accused of being biased, but there were quite a few to look at.Look for yourself for proof.
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Affa
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 08:28 AM


But what is it as I need to check whether there is any substance to the claim




Did D Cameron give substance to his reduction in immigration?
Did you not support that statement?

What I do know is that a Labour government will invest where this coalition led by Tories will not.
I would expect that since it is business demanding there be more skills training, then Labour will look towards business to put its money where its mouth is. AND invest.



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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
No the Daily Mail is evil and if you don't believe me look at their evidence to the Levenson inquiry. In precis it was "yes we knowingly libel people but we're big bullies and we can make them back down"

It is also the only British newspaper to have used fraud to pervert the result of a general election and also the kidnap of children and has never apologised.

Also worth reading its faux outrage at the sexualisation of children and the way it then sexualises children in its infamous side bar of shame.

It's only a crime though if you pay to read the DM
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Steve K
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Affa
Feb 4 2015, 04:28 PM
. . . Has there been a more pantomine PM in our history? I don't think so!

You must be the right side of 55 then. Ted Heath (1970-74) was so so much more a pantomime than anyone before or since. Although there is Anthony Eden form the mid fifties. Before my time but the record shows he was high on drugs much of the time and entered into an illegal conspiracy to kill Egyptians. How he avoided trial for murder defeats me.

As for PMQs today most reports say Cameron won it with that "Bill Somebody" response. Ed Balls is every Conservative agent's dream offering up such easy open goals to embarass Milliband. He really is a daft Ed too far.
Edited by Steve K, Feb 4 2015, 05:58 PM.
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Affa
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I knew a guy who was caught with a sack of stolen lead sheeting (roof seals). He told the police that he had taken if off some young kids and was taking it in to the station ........ he was let off.
Cameron is this same guy.
He tells kids he hates the circus, declares he will not be part of the Punch & Judy show, and does both. And is let off.



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C-too
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 05:03 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:47 PM
Affa
Feb 4 2015, 04:28 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:09 PM

He's having a bad day C2, keeps opening his mouth but nothing sensible comes out of it.
He had a tantrum at me for no offence at all from me, and does the same with you - just buts in and starts being Nasty. They get from the PM who today once more resorted to a Punch & Judy despatch box performance instead of being open and honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/06/toryleadership2005.conservatives3
Quote:
 

On becoming leader > David Cameron.
I'm fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster, the name calling, backbiting, point scoring, finger pointing.

I want and I will lead a Conservative party that when the government does the right thing, we will work with them, and when they do the wrong thing we will call them to account and criticise them.

We won't play politics with the long-term future of this country


Has there been a more pantomine PM in our history? I don't think so!

Cameron today was a complete joke, I imagine there are many red faced Tories out there today feeling embarrassed by him.
Depends on perspective others think that Cameron, once again, outclassed Milliband. What do they say about baying to the Moon?

Perception ? YES.

Cameron was running scared of the question he was supposed to answer. PM's questions ?
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 05:05 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 04:03 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 01:56 PM
C-too
Feb 4 2015, 01:08 PM
In your opinion Ctoo. Perhaps your main objection is that they have influence to get people to vote for a party you disapprove of. It does not mean they are factually inaccurate. I expect your paper of choice is the observer, that is reputed to be biased in an opposite way.
Papers are there to make a profit, so present the news that people want to read in a way most approve of.
Murdock in particular works that strategy , and will change sides.
When labour is so anti business and profit, it seems that he will not be alone. To attack businesses owned by people of influence and often very rich seems to be a stupid way to go.
Yes in my opinion when I take an objective approach, i.e. honesty and openness. I have not read any so called newspaper on anything like a regular basis since I recognised the damage they do to society. As you suggest profit is their primary purpose, along with reinforcing the bias that exists in their readers.

Most readers will acknowledge newspapers are politically biased. If printing political bias doesn't influence anyone, why do you think they print political bias in newspapers ?

Show me proof of "when Labour is so anti business and profit".
Asking for proof in a specific way is difficult to satisfy, but in recent days two owners or MD of major companies have said so, and have answered Labours protest at what they said.

Their proposals for mansion taxes and the intent to raise the highest income tax band also indicate it IMO
You could do what I just did and Google 'Labours anti business tax plans'
I haven't selected any one for fear of being accused of being biased, but there were quite a few to look at.Look for yourself for proof.
But if they are obvious why not show them ? I think there is an element of fairness that some business men don't like especially if they are the sort that were giving themselves 10% increases plus bonuses just a year or two ago.




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Tigger
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RJD
Feb 4 2015, 08:28 AM
Quote:
 
Labour’s plan: a plan to help businesses create and fill more productive, high-skilled jobs.”
- Rachel Reeves

But what is it as I need to check whether there is any substance to the claim of just another sound bite developed at the Red Nag Myths Factory. What is it Labour are going to do to create these jobs that require high skills? Are they going to create more wealth in order to create taxable revenues and rebalance our economy?



It's a soundbite until we hear the proposals, it is pointless if we encourage those who do have much needed skills and then fail them by allowing the low skilled vested interests in this country to bleed them dry afterwards, that other Labour battle cry the cost of living crisis needs to be addressed first.

From a bloke who's highly skilled eldest son buggered off abroad because reasonably priced housing in unavailable in South East England.
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disgruntled porker
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Tytoalba
Feb 4 2015, 11:18 AM
Steve K
Feb 4 2015, 10:07 AM
An open mind is much better than just an open bottom. The DM is just a newspaper, an inert object, but like all papers reports the opinions of its journalists and contributors. Read all or any, but form your own opinion and come to your own conclusions for iike the parsons egg not all parts are bad.
If you are going to nick one of ReJinalD's favourite catchphrases, do try to get it right. !tkq!
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