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The Lion's Share
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Topic Started: Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM (909 Views)
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RJD
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Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM
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Official figures show that the number of additional-rate taxpayers has risen from 273,000 to 313,000, with income tax revenues rising from £38billion to £46.5billion.
LINK
Labour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy.
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Lewis
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Feb 14 2015, 08:03 AM
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Well your party will always be the nasty one. As for lies and dirty tricks, your insinuation certainly takes the biscuit. As well as the nasty party your beloved Tories are also the dirty and lying one without any shadow of doubt. Never mind Scammer's and the rest of them have been sussed by the electorate and we will be waving goodbye to the filthy Tory rubbish come May!
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 08:49 AM
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Yet again RJD a news paper article not the data sets, the 313000 is an estimate. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403293/Table_2.1.pdf
No mention of tax evasion in that article either.
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C-too
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Feb 14 2015, 08:54 AM
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- RJD
- Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM
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Official figures show that the number of additional-rate taxpayers has risen from 273,000 to 313,000, with income tax revenues rising from £38billion to £46.5billion. LINKLabour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy. Did you really expect an honest political assessment of the situation, especially when approaching an election ? Are you really that naïve ?
I suggest you read the article again, but be sure you are wide awake before doing so.
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johnofgwent
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Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
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- RJD
- Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM
Labour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy.
From your own link:-
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The report suggests that more than 760,000 people have been dragged into the higher and additional rates of income tax since 2012-13.
George Osborne has repeatedly frozen or even cut the threshold for the 40p rate of tax, which has seen more people dragged into it
As I have oft pointed out, when I was in secondary school, only one on three of the adults in the street my parent's house stood paid any tax despite it being one of the "richer" suburbs of Cardiff, and to find a taxpayer on the council estates was rare indeed, but the reason for this was the relatively large amount of money (compared to a pint of beer a loaf of bread and a week's rent of a three bed council semi) that the "blue collar worker" brought home. Families in my area sent the husband of the home out to bring home the main salary while the wives wives such as my mother hald down largely part time jobs such as hers running the administration side of the doctor's surgery as well as being one of the faces behind the reception desk.
As children grew up they started work and looked forward to moving out.
That all went down the toilet thanks to riotous inflation which the chancellors of both parties refused to reflect in tax thresholds, so that by the time I approached my 18th birthday, the population at large found that while Tom Jones buggered off to America to enjoy the lower tax regieme (his parents lived down the road from my first "serious" girlfriend, the one who dumped me for a dustman) and Max Bygraves handed 98% of his earnings to the tax man, the rest of the world found the cold grasping dead hand of the tax man rooting round in their trouser pocket on a thursday night to a degree not before heard of. This outrageous policy scraped the bottom of the barrel in my own personal opinion the day Labour's Tax Men sent me a tax demand in respect of the income I received holding the fort at the paper shop across the road for the woman who had to run it alone after her husband croaked as he brought the papers in one morning. My demand for a full five pounds in income tax came at the same time I was denied the chance to tell Wilson what he should do with the EEC heath had dragged us into, being only 17 at the time.
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Brown and Darling in particular seemed particularly adept at this but Osborne has followed their example.
Today of course it is not possible to work for what used to be regarded as a normal working week without being wanked by the chancellor's dead hand, for the National Minimum Wage guarantees you earnings in excess of the tax threshold, a LUNATIC achievement.
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 09:26 AM
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- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold.
£613 a week is not rich in Britain.
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HIGHWAY
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Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
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- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 09:26 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain. How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 09:44 AM
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- HIGHWAY
- Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then In general terms rich people are not on PAYE.
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johnofgwent
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Feb 14 2015, 09:56 AM
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- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 09:44 AM
- HIGHWAY
- Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
In general terms rich people are not on PAYE. Now since every company director in the country has to be an EMPLOYEE how does that work ...
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 10:14 AM
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- johnofgwent
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Now since every company director in the country has to be an EMPLOYEE how does that work ... But not every company director is paid a telephone number sized salary. Which is why I was used general terms. (Are far as I am aware, most company directors are in the £50000/£80000 a year range, not exactly rich.)
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johnofgwent
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Feb 14 2015, 11:07 AM
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- papasmurf
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- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:56 AM
Now since every company director in the country has to be an EMPLOYEE how does that work ...
But not every company director is paid a telephone number sized salary. Which is why I was used general terms. (Are far as I am aware, most company directors are in the £50000/£80000 a year range, not exactly rich.) but I think you will find even the bastard that got a golden goodbye a thousand times the one I got after they booted me out in April 2012 to save money then booted him out a few weeks later for his pissing about which cost the company three quarters of its share value was on the employee's schedule (D? do they call it) not the self employed one. So once again your choice of phrase is, at best, imperfect.
Lots of people on self employed are hardly "rich" either. My daughter is making so little she has a dispensation not to pay the weekly NI the thieving scum took from me. That must be a new thing, as even I was not aware of such a thing when I launched a self employed version of myself running alongside my ltdCo doppleganger, so as to offer joe public a better deal on the stuff i did face to face
And you still have not exactly defined "rich" have you ... I see a post from "stephen" here where he claims an annual income in kent that is, by virtue of being by his claim a "six figure sum" fully three times my own now, but that's not exactly surprising as even though I have the most expensive house for two miles around off the back of my previous earnings that were sunk into it, I still have some way to go before my death causes IHT issues, whilst I suspect his "large house" in kent is well in the tax man's sights for redistribution ...
By any measure known to man, a six figure sum round here would make me a filthy rich bastard. Where my cousin lives, it is almost the minimum needed to pay a mortgage. I suspect where you are, the second / holiday homes market pushes prices up.
So in one sense I think Highway is wasting his time demanding a figure, as it will be quite meaningless.
I noted with interest the woman who started that god awful insurance comparison site with the opera singer collected a cool forty five million the other day .. not bad for a business founded on selling off the telephone numbers of everyone killed in car crashes to the ambulance chasing lawyers ... but I imagine some will say even she is worth it compared to others that are the target of their particular pet hate.
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 11:25 AM
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- RJD
- Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM
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Official figures show that the number of additional-rate taxpayers has risen from 273,000 to 313,000, with income tax revenues rising from £38billion to £46.5billion. LINKLabour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy. Good news isn't it?
And while we are at it shouldn't the government crack down on the minority of Tory donors sorry, wealthy charlatans who go out of their way to avoid their money being seen by the authorities thus avoiding tax? After all two wrongs don't make a right do they?
I think you'll agree with me that this is unacceptable, will raise yet more money for public services and go a long way towards making Britain a fairer country, isn't that right?
Are you still there RJD?
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 11:30 AM
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- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 11:07 AM
I think you will find even the bastard that got a golden goodbye a thousand times the one I got after they booted me out in April 2012 to save money then booted him out a few weeks later for his pissing about which cost the company three quarters of its share value was on the employee's schedule (D? do they call it) not the self employed one. So once again your choice of phrase is, at best, imperfect.
I think it's safe to say that the very top end of the jobs market, if it is a market that is, is not in many instances driven by competition or even competence but is effectively a cosy old boys club where you set your own price.
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 11:35 AM
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- HIGHWAY
- Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 09:26 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain.
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from.
Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here?
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Marconi
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Feb 14 2015, 11:40 AM
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So in one sense I think Highway is wasting his time demanding a figure, as it will be quite meaningless.
Apparently £530,000 will put you in the top 1% of wealthiest people. That's wealth, not income. It is calculated as assets minus debt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30949796
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 11:41 AM
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- Lewis
- Feb 14 2015, 08:03 AM
Well your party will always be the nasty one. As for lies and dirty tricks, your insinuation certainly takes the biscuit. As well as the nasty party your beloved Tories are also the dirty and lying one without any shadow of doubt. Never mind Scammer's and the rest of them have been sussed by the electorate and we will be waving goodbye to the filthy Tory rubbish come May! No Lewis . People or parties that only look for the bad in people or parties , without looking at themselves and their own attitudes and agendas, without just offering an alternative with their own ethical policies, are the true nasty people or political party. There are two works I think of , the first by Robert Burns
And would some Power the small gift give us To see ourselves as others see us! It would from many a blunder free us, And foolish notion: What airs in dress and gait would leave us, And even devotion!
The other is Mathew 7-3
You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye. Thou hypocrite.
I despair at the nastiness that is developing in our society, generated by politics and the media. We seem to be in the centre of a stork of mudslingers and fault finders. If we want a decent society we have to start with ourselves.
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 11:45 AM
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- Tytoalba
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If we want a decent society we have to start with ourselves. I have a six year old who would laugh at that!
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 11:53 AM
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- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 09:26 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain. £3,1876 a year not rich? it puts you in the top 1% of the worlds richest people. I started full time employment at £1.50 a week for a 48 hour week , and in the armed forces at just over £1 all found, hours unlimited, and with strict control of freedom of movement. People today for the majority part , just do not appreciate how very fortunate we are in Britain.
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Lewis
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Feb 14 2015, 11:55 AM
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- Tytoalba
- Feb 14 2015, 11:41 AM
- Lewis
- Feb 14 2015, 08:03 AM
Well your party will always be the nasty one. As for lies and dirty tricks, your insinuation certainly takes the biscuit. As well as the nasty party your beloved Tories are also the dirty and lying one without any shadow of doubt. Never mind Scammer's and the rest of them have been sussed by the electorate and we will be waving goodbye to the filthy Tory rubbish come May!
No Lewis . People or parties that only look for the bad in people or parties , without looking at themselves and their own attitudes and agendas, without just offering an alternative with their own ethical policies, are the true nasty people or political party. There are two works I think of , the first by Robert Burns And would some Power the small gift give us To see ourselves as others see us! It would from many a blunder free us, And foolish notion: What airs in dress and gait would leave us, And even devotion! The other is Mathew 7-3 You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye. Thou hypocrite. I despair at the nastiness that is developing in our society, generated by politics and the media. We seem to be in the centre of a stork of mudslingers and fault finders. If we want a decent society we have to start with ourselves. Well in a way your quotes from the bible and good old Rabbie Burns, do reinforce all I've said about the nasty party.
Cast out the beams that impede vision and the Tory hypocrites might just be able to see what goes on in the real world.
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 12:01 PM
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- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 10:46 AM
- HIGHWAY
- Feb 14 2015, 10:40 AM
your still refusing what makes a person rich,,never mind the PAYE rubbish
That is a different question, what makes a person rich is usually the exploitation of others, inheriting the money, royalties from a patent, or evading tax for the last 40 years. Paid employment of itself makes hardly anyone rich. Now tell us what makes people happy. Do you envy people that are richer than you or happier than you , or can you be happier if rich. I think research has shown that being better off than ones neighbour makes one the happiest. Why do you think the card game beggar your neighbour is so popular, and why today do you think that the political game is to make the rich poorer, or attack them for being rich is so appealing to the left?
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 12:05 PM
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- Lewis
- Feb 14 2015, 11:55 AM
- Tytoalba
- Feb 14 2015, 11:41 AM
- Lewis
- Feb 14 2015, 08:03 AM
Well your party will always be the nasty one. As for lies and dirty tricks, your insinuation certainly takes the biscuit. As well as the nasty party your beloved Tories are also the dirty and lying one without any shadow of doubt. Never mind Scammer's and the rest of them have been sussed by the electorate and we will be waving goodbye to the filthy Tory rubbish come May!
No Lewis . People or parties that only look for the bad in people or parties , without looking at themselves and their own attitudes and agendas, without just offering an alternative with their own ethical policies, are the true nasty people or political party. There are two works I think of , the first by Robert Burns And would some Power the small gift give us To see ourselves as others see us! It would from many a blunder free us, And foolish notion: What airs in dress and gait would leave us, And even devotion! The other is Mathew 7-3 You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye. Thou hypocrite. I despair at the nastiness that is developing in our society, generated by politics and the media. We seem to be in the centre of a stork of mudslingers and fault finders. If we want a decent society we have to start with ourselves.
Well in a way your quotes from the bible and good old Rabbie Burns, do reinforce all I've said about the nasty party. Cast out the beams that impede vision and the Tory hypocrites might just be able to see what goes on in the real world. There you go again Lewis. Only the Tories have the beam in their eyes Now tell us how many people voted Tory at the last election, and are they all nasty people do you think? I think your attitude needs revising, for I don't think it is very objective.
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 12:11 PM
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- Tytoalba
- Feb 14 2015, 12:01 PM
Do you envy people that are richer than you or happier than you , or can you be happier if rich.
I don't envy people who are rich, I do however respect people who finally realise, they have made enough money, to say sod it, I am going to retire early and do what I want to do. (There was an interesting programme on French TV about a French actress who did just that and lives on a very remote farm on Pantelleria, an Island South of Sicily, with no mains water/sewerage.)
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 12:13 PM
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- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 11:07 AM
- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 10:14 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:56 AM
Now since every company director in the country has to be an EMPLOYEE how does that work ...
But not every company director is paid a telephone number sized salary. Which is why I was used general terms. (Are far as I am aware, most company directors are in the £50000/£80000 a year range, not exactly rich.)
but I think you will find even the bastard that got a golden goodbye a thousand times the one I got after they booted me out in April 2012 to save money then booted him out a few weeks later for his pissing about which cost the company three quarters of its share value was on the employee's schedule (D? do they call it) not the self employed one. So once again your choice of phrase is, at best, imperfect. Lots of people on self employed are hardly "rich" either. My daughter is making so little she has a dispensation not to pay the weekly NI the thieving scum took from me. That must be a new thing, as even I was not aware of such a thing when I launched a self employed version of myself running alongside my ltdCo doppleganger, so as to offer joe public a better deal on the stuff i did face to face And you still have not exactly defined "rich" have you ... I see a post from "stephen" here where he claims an annual income in kent that is, by virtue of being by his claim a "six figure sum" fully three times my own now, but that's not exactly surprising as even though I have the most expensive house for two miles around off the back of my previous earnings that were sunk into it, I still have some way to go before my death causes IHT issues, whilst I suspect his "large house" in kent is well in the tax man's sights for redistribution ... By any measure known to man, a six figure sum round here would make me a filthy rich bastard. Where my cousin lives, it is almost the minimum needed to pay a mortgage. I suspect where you are, the second / holiday homes market pushes prices up. So in one sense I think Highway is wasting his time demanding a figure, as it will be quite meaningless. I noted with interest the woman who started that god awful insurance comparison site with the opera singer collected a cool forty five million the other day .. not bad for a business founded on selling off the telephone numbers of everyone killed in car crashes to the ambulance chasing lawyers ... but I imagine some will say even she is worth it compared to others that are the target of their particular pet hate. Many people that put a great deal of thought, time and money into a business end up a lot poorer than when they started I think the figure is that 75% of new businesses fail in the first five years.
A successful business can be running at a loss for a number of years until the first debts are paid off. Entrepreneurs need to be supported, and praised not vilified when they become successful and wealthy
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Steve K
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Feb 14 2015, 12:17 PM
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- Marconi
- Feb 14 2015, 11:40 AM
- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 11:21 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 11:07 AM
So in one sense I think Highway is wasting his time demanding a figure, as it will be quite meaningless.
Apparently £530,000 will put you in the top 1% of wealthiest people. That's wealth, not income. It is calculated as assets minus debt. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30949796 Top 1% in the world, not the UK. And the Credit Suisse report it's taken from uses absolute money and not the more relevant Purchasing Power Parity assessments which show 3rd world countries in a much much better light.
If you drill down into that report (table 3-6 on page 114) it shows the UK may have 5% of the worlds wealth but only 2,900 people in the world's top 1% (very convergently it says we only have 2,043 with net worth above $1M)
Also interesting that they only rate the UK as "Medium Inequality" and they confirm that we have reduced net household debt over the last 7 years (table 5-1)
And back to topic it isn't just the Maily Telegraph that is saying this. From the Thunderer today:
- The Times today:
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According to new HM Revenue & Customs estimates, the richest 1 per cent will pay 27.3 per cent of all income tax in 2015. It is an increase on the 25.1 per cent they paid in the last year that the 50p rate was in place.
Those paying the 45p rate will contribute £46.4 billion to the exchequer in 2014-15, up from the £38 billion they paid under the 50p tax rate in 2012-13.
A Treasury source said: “This is more evidence that Labour’s chaotic gimmick raised no money but did drive away business and investment.”
I'm not allowed to post a link so No one must ever think of clicking this OK
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 12:26 PM
Post #25
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- papasmurf
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- Tytoalba
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Do you envy people that are richer than you or happier than you , or can you be happier if rich.
I don't envy people who are rich, I do however respect people who finally realise, they have made enough money, to say sod it, I am going to retire early and do what I want to do. (There was an interesting programme on French TV about a French actress who did just that and lives on a very remote farm on Pantelleria, an Island South of Sicily, with no mains water/sewerage.) That's a fair enough attitude Papa, but the way money is accumulated by chance , circumstances , good fortune, investing instead of self indulging, or by crime is so variable from individual to individual that we cannot just group people as being rich and therefor see them as being selfish and uncaring can we? There is a sliding scale of wealth depending how people manage their affairs, spend or save and invest. We started with nothing, sold a motor cycle to get married, lived in a tiny rented flat for five years, and saved every penny we could to get the deposit for a house. Since then we have always saved and invested, and are now comfortable with our means and standard of living. There are books available to give guidance and inspiration, but we have to look to ourselves first before expecting others to supply our needs and we certainly cannot micro mange the affairs of every individual.
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C-too
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Feb 14 2015, 01:03 PM
Post #26
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- Tigger
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- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain.
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here? The only additional tax income that I'm aware is down to a big increase in the number of prosecutions by HMRC. Some people having been misled and others quite dishonestly used to claim or insinuate that the increase was down to people willingly paying more tax because of the reduction from 50% to 45% taxation.
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C-too
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Feb 14 2015, 01:10 PM
Post #27
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- Feb 14 2015, 12:13 PM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 11:07 AM
- papasmurf
- Feb 14 2015, 10:14 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:56 AM
Now since every company director in the country has to be an EMPLOYEE how does that work ...
But not every company director is paid a telephone number sized salary. Which is why I was used general terms. (Are far as I am aware, most company directors are in the £50000/£80000 a year range, not exactly rich.)
but I think you will find even the bastard that got a golden goodbye a thousand times the one I got after they booted me out in April 2012 to save money then booted him out a few weeks later for his pissing about which cost the company three quarters of its share value was on the employee's schedule (D? do they call it) not the self employed one. So once again your choice of phrase is, at best, imperfect. Lots of people on self employed are hardly "rich" either. My daughter is making so little she has a dispensation not to pay the weekly NI the thieving scum took from me. That must be a new thing, as even I was not aware of such a thing when I launched a self employed version of myself running alongside my ltdCo doppleganger, so as to offer joe public a better deal on the stuff i did face to face And you still have not exactly defined "rich" have you ... I see a post from "stephen" here where he claims an annual income in kent that is, by virtue of being by his claim a "six figure sum" fully three times my own now, but that's not exactly surprising as even though I have the most expensive house for two miles around off the back of my previous earnings that were sunk into it, I still have some way to go before my death causes IHT issues, whilst I suspect his "large house" in kent is well in the tax man's sights for redistribution ... By any measure known to man, a six figure sum round here would make me a filthy rich bastard. Where my cousin lives, it is almost the minimum needed to pay a mortgage. I suspect where you are, the second / holiday homes market pushes prices up. So in one sense I think Highway is wasting his time demanding a figure, as it will be quite meaningless. I noted with interest the woman who started that god awful insurance comparison site with the opera singer collected a cool forty five million the other day .. not bad for a business founded on selling off the telephone numbers of everyone killed in car crashes to the ambulance chasing lawyers ... but I imagine some will say even she is worth it compared to others that are the target of their particular pet hate.
Many people that put a great deal of thought, time and money into a business end up a lot poorer than when they started I think the figure is that 75% of new businesses fail in the first five years. A successful business can be running at a loss for a number of years until the first debts are paid off. Entrepreneurs need to be supported, and praised not vilified when they become successful and wealthy I certainly do not vilify the successful and wealthy for being successful and wealthy, I do believe that many are full of greed and no amount of money and power will ever satisfy them. These are the people who are never satisfied, and they do not care about the economic health of country that's why they find different ways of paying less tax.
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Tytoalba
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Feb 14 2015, 01:41 PM
Post #28
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Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here?
The only additional tax income that I'm aware is down to a big increase in the number of prosecutions by HMRC. Some people having been misled and others quite dishonestly used to claim or insinuate that the increase was down to people willingly paying more tax because of the reduction from 50% to 45% taxation. You miss out VAT. The more we have, the more we spend, the higher the value of the goods or services we buy,a the more vat we automatically pay in tax. There have been complaints about pensioner bonds favouring the richer voters, with about 3 billions of pounds involved, but the returns are taxed except for non tax payers, and the government gets the use of the money for up to three years at a low interest rate. I don't know how much governments are charged for loans, but it cannot be less than the paying out of interest on pensioner bonds. Its cheap money for the government as far as I can see.
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RJD
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Feb 14 2015, 04:23 PM
Post #29
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- Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here?
The only additional tax income that I'm aware is down to a big increase in the number of prosecutions by HMRC. Some people having been misled and others quite dishonestly used to claim or insinuate that the increase was down to people willingly paying more tax because of the reduction from 50% to 45% taxation.
You miss out VAT. The more we have, the more we spend, the higher the value of the goods or services we buy,a the more vat we automatically pay in tax. There have been complaints about pensioner bonds favouring the richer voters, with about 3 billions of pounds involved, but the returns are taxed except for non tax payers, and the government gets the use of the money for up to three years at a low interest rate. I don't know how much governments are charged for loans, but it cannot be less than the paying out of interest on pensioner bonds. Its cheap money for the government as far as I can see. This is very expensive money for the State. Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years.
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 05:08 PM
Post #30
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Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years.
It is not 4% though, it's going be taxed.
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johnofgwent
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Feb 14 2015, 05:26 PM
Post #31
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I think you will find even the bastard that got a golden goodbye a thousand times the one I got after they booted me out in April 2012 to save money then booted him out a few weeks later for his pissing about which cost the company three quarters of its share value was on the employee's schedule (D? do they call it) not the self employed one. So once again your choice of phrase is, at best, imperfect.
I think it's safe to say that the very top end of the jobs market, if it is a market that is, is not in many instances driven by competition or even competence but is effectively a cosy old boys club where you set your own price. Ah well now we are getting somewhere. But I have personally witnessed how that "market" can very, very suddenly become a declaration that "you have decided to pursue interests elsewhere and we wish you well"
(That was how one of bob diamond's yes men delivered the news that his rival was going to be doing a spot of gardening t not one but TWO people who 30 seconds earlier had been slightly above him in the pecking order. I was one of 500 or so in the office that watched it happen)
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C-too
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Feb 14 2015, 05:27 PM
Post #32
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- Feb 14 2015, 09:39 AM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here?
The only additional tax income that I'm aware is down to a big increase in the number of prosecutions by HMRC. Some people having been misled and others quite dishonestly used to claim or insinuate that the increase was down to people willingly paying more tax because of the reduction from 50% to 45% taxation.
You miss out VAT. The more we have, the more we spend, the higher the value of the goods or services we buy,a the more vat we automatically pay in tax. There have been complaints about pensioner bonds favouring the richer voters, with about 3 billions of pounds involved, but the returns are taxed except for non tax payers, and the government gets the use of the money for up to three years at a low interest rate. I don't know how much governments are charged for loans, but it cannot be less than the paying out of interest on pensioner bonds. Its cheap money for the government as far as I can see. You have not addressed the point of the post you have replied to.
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johnofgwent
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Feb 14 2015, 05:39 PM
Post #33
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- Feb 14 2015, 09:26 AM
- johnofgwent
- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain.
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here? Yes I can give you what I believe is a sensible suggestion.
Go google the start rate of tax for the last decade.
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Lewis
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Feb 14 2015, 07:15 PM
Post #34
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Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years.
It is not 4% though, it's going be taxed. Indeed they are:
http://moneyfacts.co.uk/news/savings/6-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-pensioner-bond/
As per usual with the incompetents, nothing is what it is made out to be or it seems.
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 09:59 PM
Post #35
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- Feb 14 2015, 11:53 AM
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- Feb 14 2015, 09:18 AM
But almost every year since then I have seen tax thresholds stay put as wages rose below the cost of living and more and more and more felt the chancellors dead hand groping in their trouser pockets on pay day.
Quite, we had this discussion on the other forum , I started a thread about the 40% tax band threshold not being raised for a very long time. You certainly are not rich to cross over into that low threshold. £613 a week is not rich in Britain.
£3,1876 a year not rich? it puts you in the top 1% of the worlds richest people. I started full time employment at £1.50 a week for a 48 hour week , and in the armed forces at just over £1 all found, hours unlimited, and with strict control of freedom of movement. People today for the majority part , just do not appreciate how very fortunate we are in Britain. Unfortunately the vast majority of these high earners live in a first world nation and have to pay first World costs for that privilege.
Just a minor point of course.
Oh and when are you off to Chad? With your police pension you'd almost certainly be in the top .25% of earners and live like a king, either that or be dead within a week..........
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 10:04 PM
Post #36
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Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
The only additional tax income that I'm aware is down to a big increase in the number of prosecutions by HMRC. Some people having been misled and others quite dishonestly used to claim or insinuate that the increase was down to people willingly paying more tax because of the reduction from 50% to 45% taxation.
You miss out VAT. The more we have, the more we spend, the higher the value of the goods or services we buy,a the more vat we automatically pay in tax. There have been complaints about pensioner bonds favouring the richer voters, with about 3 billions of pounds involved, but the returns are taxed except for non tax payers, and the government gets the use of the money for up to three years at a low interest rate. I don't know how much governments are charged for loans, but it cannot be less than the paying out of interest on pensioner bonds. Its cheap money for the government as far as I can see.
This is very expensive money for the State. Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years. All very true, it's a bribe that will have to go on the slate with all the other bribes that the reckless Tories are trying to con the electorate with.
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Tigger
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Feb 14 2015, 10:08 PM
Post #37
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- papasmurf
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Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
How much do you have to earn to be rich in your mind then
I've had a tax cut thanks to the government, in fact most of us who earn a bit more than average did, in fact I pay less now than in 2010, so I'm rather curious as to where this additional taxation has really come from. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions because I can't quite work out what is going on here?
Yes I can give you what I believe is a sensible suggestion. Go google the start rate of tax for the last decade. Cheers.
I'd hazard a guess here and say middle earners have been hit the hardest, the bog standard middle classes in fact, the working poor have bugger all after living expenses have been paid for and those supposedly in the upper tax brackets have got a bit of a free ride.
Edited by Tigger, Feb 14 2015, 10:09 PM.
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Rich
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Feb 14 2015, 11:28 PM
Post #38
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Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
You miss out VAT. The more we have, the more we spend, the higher the value of the goods or services we buy,a the more vat we automatically pay in tax. There have been complaints about pensioner bonds favouring the richer voters, with about 3 billions of pounds involved, but the returns are taxed except for non tax payers, and the government gets the use of the money for up to three years at a low interest rate. I don't know how much governments are charged for loans, but it cannot be less than the paying out of interest on pensioner bonds. Its cheap money for the government as far as I can see.
This is very expensive money for the State. Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years.
All very true, it's a bribe that will have to go on the slate with all the other bribes that the reckless Tories are trying to con the electorate with. I just heard a bit of BBC news and apparently, Millibraine has said that if he gets into office HE will bring the HMRC to task.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31468781.
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papasmurf
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Feb 14 2015, 11:31 PM
Post #39
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Someone needs to.
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HIGHWAY
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Feb 14 2015, 11:56 PM
Post #40
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- Feb 14 2015, 01:41 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
This is very expensive money for the State. Clearly Osborne is looking to purchase grey votes with Taxpayers funds. Paying out 4% when the State can borrow for ~1% makes no sense. Truth is that OAPs, relatively speaking, have done well during the last few years.
All very true, it's a bribe that will have to go on the slate with all the other bribes that the reckless Tories are trying to con the electorate with.
I just heard a bit of BBC news and apparently, Millibraine has said that if he gets into office HE will bring the HMRC to task. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31468781. Saying and doing is two,different things
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